Stargate: Universe

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#51
Terdwilicker said:
According to the pilot, the ship is following unmanned probes. What if that assumption is wrong? What if they're not unmanned? A million year old stasis corpsicle crew, waiting around to wake up for good reason. If the ship catches up, will we meet some Ancients? Will the show give us alien speaking instead of English speaking, for once? More work, but more interesting too.
That would be interesting I suppose, but there would have to be a reason for Destiny to suddenly catch up with those advance ships. Like I said, even the smallest difference in average velocity would have let Destiny pass them after 500,000 years, yet it has not.

Plus, the Ancients created humanity in their own image. They look human enough on the outside. Although based on the one they found frozen in Antartica, were quite different in actual functioning. Although that one was frozen during the great plague which nearly eradicated all life in the Milky Way. She started picking up English in a couple days without any sort of translator though, and had healing powers more like what you'd expect out of an anime character.

I must say though that the ethical issues generated by the communication stones are quite intriguing, and I hadn't really considered them until you brought them up.

I had no idea that ansibles were a real world idea. Regardless, they don't exist in Stargate, at least not by that name. The SGC uses subspace radios as I said. What the Ancients used seems to have been a combination of conventional(that is, unremarkable to SGC personnel) communications, and the communications stones for extreme range transmitions.

The Asgard it is never really mentioned how they communicate. However their engines were by far the most advanced in the series, and it was the one technology where they clearly outstripped the Ancients. They could travel the distance between Galaxies in mere minutes. Which indicates to me that they might simply not have long range communications capable of crossing between galaxies. They never used such a system as I recall. When they wanted to contact Earth they always traveled there by stargate or by ship. The only indication of long range communication was that they could be summoned by a signal from one of their protected planets where SG-1 had disabled the primary fixed defenses. They responded incredibly fast.

Really if the Asgard were still around, they could probably go out and rescue the passengers in a couple days tops and drag Destiny back to Earth. Too bad they aren't around.
 

MilesMortim

Well-Known Member
#52
Seems that each of the Four Great Races had their niche in the technology market:
-The Ancients had communication, programming (humanoid Replicators), time travel & dimension-hopping, shields (Atlantis under the ocean for 10,000 years) and weapons (Project Artcturus, anyone?).
-The Asgard had travel capabilities, material fabrication, cloning (& mind transfer) labs, and teleportation tech.
-The Nox had defensive and camouflage use (invisible city), although there could be more we didn't see.
-We never did see the Furlings, so we can only guess what they could do.

Humanity has the potential as the Fifth Great Race because of their access to both Asgard and Ancient/Alteran technology to combine and synthesize more technology. Not to mention the various biological advancements and material acquisitions the SGC has after 13 years.

The Tollan.... well I have no idea how exactly they fit in here, but they seem to be one of the few advanced races that didn't quite make Great race status. No real idea why, seeing as they could create their own Stargate and created the giant cannons that could blow Goa'uld ships out of space from the surface... Could just be that they arrived to the galactic-scene too late to submit their application to the Great Race club before the Goa'uld came to rule the Milky Way.
 

Terdwilicker

Well-Known Member
#53
MilesMortim said:
The Tollan.... well I have no idea how exactly they fit in here, but they seem to be one of the few advanced races that didn't quite make Great race status.
That's probably because the Tollan are dicks.
 

MilesMortim

Well-Known Member
#54
When were any of the Great Races not dicks to the SGC? The Ancients have an ego problem, constantly making as if they were automatically better and more capable than a human who was not as evolved as they are. The Nox don't take sides with anyone and remove themselves from the galactic affairs, completely defeating the purpose of being a "Great Race" if they don't do anything 'great.' (I don't know why exactly, but the Nox just make me ticked) The Asgard can be forgiven for their reluctance to just hand out technology will-nilly, but sometimes it is more important to give the nice people that are willing to help you exterminate the Replicators what they need to get the job done.

Seems to me that being a dick to "lesser races," while simultaneously maintaining the guise of being helpful and providing guidance, is a prerequisite to being a Great Race.
 

SotF

Well-Known Member
#55
With the Ancients, it's possible that they simply decided to remove themselves at the end. With the plague, it is also possible that there was a late division in the Lanteans between those that Ascended and those that didn't/couldn't which led to the ascended ones ceasing to interact for the most part.

I'd also heard the theory that if they did interfere more that it might have drawn the attention of the Ori much earlier.

The Nox, well, they came off as far to sure of themselves with no care of the rest of the world.

With the Asgard, they kind of came off as trying to figure out just how they ought to go about dealing with humans. You could give the tech and put them ahead of the other races in the area, but that could prevent the Tau'ri from developing their own methods which seemed to hit things that the Asgard missed.

And they were there to catch the Tau'ri when we fell on numerous occasions even when stretched thin as they were described.

I kind of wonder if the Furlings were the race that held the rest together and when they vanished, the alliance fell apart.
 

Terdwilicker

Well-Known Member
#56
SotF said:
I kind of wonder if the Furlings were the race that held the rest together and when they vanished, the alliance fell apart.
Most likely the Furlings were the biggest dicks of all, other than the Goa'uld themselves. I see from the descriptions above that really, the SG-verse is populated by dicks and pussies, yet another example proving the Team America Hypothesis is true. Sad.

So back to SGU, while its slow going and more emo than the prior two series, most of the time, and severely lacking in comedy (which I suspect it needs to break the tension), it still has its good points and the potential story ideas to pursue issues of ethics, human slavery (borrowed bodies doing labor), and the distance of loneliness involved with being so far from home, perhaps forever.

For instance, is there a time limit on the body swapping? Will a couple of people hate their lives so much they swap permanently, so some genius scientist takes over for a useless moron who gets to return to Earth and live a normal life, but in the scientist's body, and the scientist gets to be part of a truly remarkable experience. And what if the moron gets killed jaywalking. Will the stones refuse to swap them back or will the borrowed body turn into an empty corpse? Is there bleedover from the sharing/swapping process? Will the genius get dumber over time, or the dummy get smarter? That hasn't been touched on yet, and would prove to be an interesting side effect. The law of Unintended Consequences is known to be rather disturbing at times.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#57
Terdwilicker said:
For instance, is there a time limit on the body swapping? Will a couple of people hate their lives so much they swap permanently, so some genius scientist takes over for a useless moron who gets to return to Earth and live a normal life, but in the scientist's body, and the scientist gets to be part of a truly remarkable experience. And what if the moron gets killed jaywalking. Will the stones refuse to swap them back or will the borrowed body turn into an empty corpse? Is there bleedover from the sharing/swapping process? Will the genius get dumber over time, or the dummy get smarter? That hasn't been touched on yet, and would prove to be an interesting side effect. The law of Unintended Consequences is known to be rather disturbing at times.
If a person is killed in another's body then they are immediately returned to their original body. The person who's body died, dies. This was dealt with in SG-1.

The Tollan weren't a Great Race because they did not advance any field beyond what one of the Great Races did. They could duplicate the stargates, but reverse engineering something you have studied is not so hard as designing it in the first place. Their weapons didn't even match those of the Asgard either.

The Asgard did the best they could I think. They were dealt a bad hand. They were stretched too far, and they knew their technology wouldn't resolve the problem. So giving it to the Tau'ri would accomplish nothing but to lead them down paths the Asgard had already traveled. They helped when the Tau'ri were truly in need though.
 

tsukiyomi

Well-Known Member
#58
I don't think we can really speculate on what makes a race Great from what we saw in canon. The only common theme among the four Great Races was that they were part of an alliance with each other.

And I don't think applying our own perception to the other races, or cultures for that matter, really works either. Thou if we are going to apply it to other cultures, the Tollan I cannot really blame. Yes, they were asses to Earth, but given their first encounter with Earth ended with the US government trying to take them into custody for, I really don't even want to think about what, I cannot really blame them for their attitude towards Earth.

And if we must try and apply it to other races, the Nox seemed to me to be ridiculously in tune with life. Way beyond anything anyone on Earth, Stargate or real, can claim to have. Their home on their planet's surface looked like they belonged in nature and their city was floating above the surface, presumably to avoid impacted the environment, both flora and fauna, as much as possible. Actually, if the Nox and Asgard were in communication at all I am unsure as to why the Asgard still had issues as I imagine the Nox's medical technology/ability was probably far and above the other three Great Races.

The Asgard probably acted as they did towards Earth for a couple of reasons. One, being that they were occupied heavily with their own affairs, both their cloning issues and the Replicators. Two, Earth was just at the level were the Asgard would possibly consider revealing themselves to them. The early episode with the Unas and the testing cave being my reasoning here. Earth was still very much a young people and still fighting amongst itself, as they were watching Earth, who is to say that they did not know the full situation with the Gate and did not wish to see anything they gave the US used against the rest of the world. I believe, later in the show, when they did give SGC technology that could be used as weapons they had some locks put in place anyways. Third, they probably wanted Earth to develop along it's own lines, and not just copy what was given to them.

Meh, this is so off-topic. Anyways, who is to say we won't see any of the Great Races with SGU. We only saw one planet with Nox in SG1. There were two seperate groups of Asgard in SG1/SGA, with one of them still running around. The Ancients are mostly glowy balls of annoyance who can pretty much go where they want, and enough non-ascended have been seen to imply there might be more out there. And the Furling have been MIA since they were first mentioned, who the hell knows where they are.

And as a note, Eli with Lt. Boobs would be hilarious.
 

The Eromancer

Well-Known Member
#59
Is that her unofficaial name now? Lt. Boobs? ... certainly fits. :lol:

to be perfectly honest Rush is my favorite characrer and this might be becuase we are so alike, when confronted with suspicion or accusations we either shut up because we know no matter what we say they won't believe us or snap back at them which of course only makes things WORSE but makes US feel better and that's all that matters - AT THE TIME.

Other than that the only other person on that ship that I like is Eli, kid has a lot to learn about life though.

Sooo... any bets Eli actually looses weight?

PS- Eli with Lt. Boobs WOULD be awesomely funny
 

SotF

Well-Known Member
#60
Eli losing weight is pretty much definite I'd believe as they're on pretty strict food rationing for the time being
 

Avider

Well-Known Member
#61
Considering they had those four with sunburns after a few hours on that planet, they better pay attention to things like weight loss.

But...it's physically actor dependent, so...
 

MilesMortim

Well-Known Member
#62
@tsukiyomi: Yeah, I understand that and agree on several points; we (well, I) was poking fun at the attitudes displayed by the races that were further technologically. Kinda how the further along they (Tollans, Ancients, etc.) see themselves and how far the people behind them have to come, the more they will act as like an ass. Notice that now matter how nice or professional the SG-1 acted towards these groups, they would still talk down to them (not necessarily condescending, but as if to a lesser individual).
---
I actually liked Thor quite a bit. He was able to understand SG-1 and had the humility to even as the aid of Major Carter when they required a new method for destroying Replicators, yet had the compassion to humor them when they wanted to preserve the teenage clone of Colonel O'Neill.
 

Moonkie

Well-Known Member
#63
I can't remember if this has been brought up, or even if I'm remebering it correctly...

There are only 32 chevrons' on the gate correct? And they had the first 8 of a 9 symbol address? Bwah?

That's not much trial and error right there.

The only thing I can think of in-universe would be that everyone had been conditioned to the point where the last symbol has to always, always be the point of origin.

Otherwise it's just a plot-device to get Eli involved.
 

SotF

Well-Known Member
#64
Moonkie said:
I can't remember if this has been brought up, or even if I'm remebering it correctly...

There are only 32 chevrons' on the gate correct? And they had the first 8 of a 9 symbol address? Bwah?

That's not much trial and error right there.

The only thing I can think of in-universe would be that everyone had been conditioned to the point where the last symbol has to always, always be the point of origin.

Otherwise it's just a plot-device to get Eli involved.
Part of it may be the powering of the gate, not to mention aiming at a moving target. Remember that Abydos was the only place the dialing computer could reach because it originally couldn't account for stellar drift, and while that was compensated for, a moving target like a ship would be far harder to reach.

You also have the power consideration, especially with the planet providing power. That power had to be greater than a ZPM, and if you overcharge the gate, then, well, probably a very big boom and everyone in the area dead.
 

Terdwilicker

Well-Known Member
#65
Did you realize that the sole reason Eli dresses that way, with the stupid teeshirt and the hoodie, is because he's a geek-insert. He's there to appeal to the SI fanbase audience. Namely you.

Realistically, does he make sense? Hell no. But they have to explain the "science" to someone, so it may as well be Eli Stu, I mean Gary Wallach, I mean the kid. He's a plot device, and they're testing his character out on the viewers to see if they can get away with it. If not, he gets emo or killed off in an accident and someone else does his job, like the Senator's Daughter or Lt. Boobs.

And speaking of the love interests of the story, it was interesting watching Boobs be nice to her while they waited for their lover to survive the trip to the ice planet where he almost died. Lt. Boobs knows he'll come back to her because she's a grown up, and knows its a long trip. She loses nothing by showing kindness to the competition. And she gains the respect that will allow her play with their boy-toy. Especially since the Blonde medic keeps eyeing the Col. like prime rib, something he clearly hasn't missed and isn't ready to deal with. Boobs and SD don't need Blondie horning in on their toy, and the shipboard jealousy won't do well either. The crew have accused Eli of spying on Lt Boobs, and by implication, all women aboard, even though he claims another guy was running the KINO at the time. Jealousy and accusation, right off the bat, and the women are at the center of the controversy. There's good reason women aren't allowed on sailing vessels. It's this kind of consequence. They don't have a choice in the show, however, so we get to see it play out.

So, water supply isn't really dealt with, but its better than it was. I think the alien mites took most of it with them, which means they'll need to stop for more. They barely hauled on a hundred gallons, not hundreds of cubic meters like they claimed was taken. Bad science math: no cookie!

As far as "they should dial home", it would be a good idea if Rush or Eli explained just how much energy it would take to do that, and that the planetary core blew up because of the drain. It takes minimal energy to receive a wormhole but large energy to open one, more than the ship probably stores since they said there's no ZPM on board, thus they don't have the energy to get back. That should really be addressed in the next episode, the simple math of wormhole distance vs energy requirement. They've already established that in SGA, and reinforced it with this show.

I notice that one of the crew complained about missing his time to use the transfer stones, and the Red Shirt died. I wonder just how long before they're out of range? Or if that's possible. The Ansible has no "range" limitations. Anywhere in the universe, even inside a black hole's event horizon. Probably NOT into neighboring universes, however, should the Onionspace theorem prove true. So are the stones Ansibles or just a funky subspace communicator?

I am still looking forward to them constructing a CNC mill to create machine tools to perpetuate their technology (ammunition, cooking implements, new devices, repair raw materials) from captured sources of metal, like asteroids. They need more space suits, and the one that's sprung a leak isn't helping. Obviously, having electrical power isn't good enough to institute a self repair system. The ship remains a wreck and its going to be a while before they get around to fixing the hull breaches, installing airlocks, and testing all the old systems and figuring them out. Its like landing on an aircraft carrier with a high school education and having to keep it afloat while an autopilot steers it across the pacific.

Oh, and FYI: plasma cutters work by using pressurized oxygenated air under high pressure past an arc source and the venturi effect to raise temps to 25K'C. Won't work in a CO2 atmosphere, and it also requires an electrical conductive material. Plasma cutters don't cut wood, for example, or fiberglass. They would have been better suited to use a simple bow saw. And wasting ammo to "chip ice"... wtf? They need to take the writers to a gun range, then demonstrate an ice pick and explain the energy is higher with the ice pick. More science, less of TEH DUMZ.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#66
SotF said:
Moonkie said:
I can't remember if this has been brought up, or even if I'm remebering it correctly...

There are only 32 chevrons' on the gate correct? And they had the first 8 of a 9 symbol address? Bwah?

That's not much trial and error right there.

The only thing I can think of in-universe would be that everyone had been conditioned to the point where the last symbol has to always, always be the point of origin.

Otherwise it's just a plot-device to get Eli involved.
Part of it may be the powering of the gate, not to mention aiming at a moving target. Remember that Abydos was the only place the dialing computer could reach because it originally couldn't account for stellar drift, and while that was compensated for, a moving target like a ship would be far harder to reach.

You also have the power consideration, especially with the planet providing power. That power had to be greater than a ZPM, and if you overcharge the gate, then, well, probably a very big boom and everyone in the area dead.
They had the address, Eli's calculations were on how to provide just the right amount of power.

As for the gate address, that conditioning makes perfect sense. Because the ancients normally wrote gate addresses as 6 chevrons leaving off the 7th because that was always the point of origin chevron.

Though it is very interesting to note that stargates are all supposed to have the last chevron (representing point of origin) be unique, and thus, that planet's stargate shouldn't have had a chevron with Earth's origin symbol.
 

tsukiyomi

Well-Known Member
#67
I always took the 7th chevron to be more of an area of space origin than an actual specific point. Each chevron corresponding to 1/30th-ish (can't remember how many are on the gate, I vaguely recall 36 in SG1 but I've read somewhere that Pegasus gates have less) of the galaxy the gate system when used as a point of origin. That is the only thing that ever made sense to me, especially since you cannot repeat symbols in an address.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#68
tsukiyomi said:
I always took the 7th chevron to be more of an area of space origin than an actual specific point. Each chevron corresponding to 1/30th-ish (can't remember how many are on the gate, I vaguely recall 36 in SG1 but I've read somewhere that Pegasus gates have less) of the galaxy the gate system when used as a point of origin. That is the only thing that ever made sense to me, especially since you cannot repeat symbols in an address.
Originally, each stargate had its own unique origin symbol. However this became a bit of a plothole when they had second stargate on Earth with the same origin symbol on it. The idea of it indicating a section of space might work, and there are indications that it became that eventually, but it was a retcon.

Stargates in the Pegasus Galaxy are different from the Milky Way. They are like mini-gates in a sense. Any Milky Way galaxy can potentially dial out to another galaxy if it can find the power. The Pegasus Galaxy gates can not. They lacked the ability to encode an 8th chevron. The only gate in the Pegasus Galaxy that could dial other galaxies was the one in Atlantis.
 

SotF

Well-Known Member
#69
inverted helix said:
tsukiyomi said:
I always took the 7th chevron to be more of an area of space origin than an actual specific point. Each chevron corresponding to 1/30th-ish (can't remember how many are on the gate, I vaguely recall 36 in SG1 but I've read somewhere that Pegasus gates have less) of the galaxy the gate system when used as a point of origin. That is the only thing that ever made sense to me, especially since you cannot repeat symbols in an address.
Originally, each stargate had its own unique origin symbol. However this became a bit of a plothole when they had second stargate on Earth with the same origin symbol on it. The idea of it indicating a section of space might work, and there are indications that it became that eventually, but it was a retcon.

Stargates in the Pegasus Galaxy are different from the Milky Way. They are like mini-gates in a sense. Any Milky Way galaxy can potentially dial out to another galaxy if it can find the power. The Pegasus Galaxy gates can not. They lacked the ability to encode an 8th chevron. The only gate in the Pegasus Galaxy that could dial other galaxies was the one in Atlantis.
Actually, the second gate on Earth still fits the unique series, after all, only one of them could be used at a time.

Perhaps its just that each planet has their own series though.

Of course, Earth still has one gate unaccounted for from the end of Season 1. Namely the one from Apophis' ship
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#70
SotF said:
inverted helix said:
tsukiyomi said:
I always took the 7th chevron to be more of an area of space origin than an actual specific point. Each chevron corresponding to 1/30th-ish (can't remember how many are on the gate, I vaguely recall 36 in SG1 but I've read somewhere that Pegasus gates have less) of the galaxy the gate system when used as a point of origin. That is the only thing that ever made sense to me, especially since you cannot repeat symbols in an address.
Originally, each stargate had its own unique origin symbol. However this became a bit of a plothole when they had second stargate on Earth with the same origin symbol on it. The idea of it indicating a section of space might work, and there are indications that it became that eventually, but it was a retcon.

Stargates in the Pegasus Galaxy are different from the Milky Way. They are like mini-gates in a sense. Any Milky Way galaxy can potentially dial out to another galaxy if it can find the power. The Pegasus Galaxy gates can not. They lacked the ability to encode an 8th chevron. The only gate in the Pegasus Galaxy that could dial other galaxies was the one in Atlantis.
Actually, the second gate on Earth still fits the unique series, after all, only one of them could be used at a time.

Perhaps its just that each planet has their own series though.
Not what I meant. Originally each stargate had a single literally, physically distinct symbol unique to that stargate alone, unrelated to what planet that stargate happened to be on.

This was retconned pretty early in the series though.
 

SotF

Well-Known Member
#71
Actually, the unique origin symbol was never shown on planets with a DHD. The alternate gates used in the series for different planet sets also were identical, though you really couldn't tell that without other things, and they were careful never to show that last symbol. That was more because of a limited budget than a direct retcon as they never went in close enough..

The second Earth gate was stated to be identical to the first, probably because of who made it.

Hell, the gate on Abydos in the movie was the same as the one on Earth (same prop). Jackson just didn't know the right order to dial home.

Actually, according to some of the other things, there are several worlds with the same symbols, just in different orders. And by using a standard DHD that uses the big red button to trigger the Point of Origin, they didn't need to create them for the different worlds.
 

spooky316

Well-Known Member
#72
After seeing the new ep, let me just say: Rush is a magnificent bastard.
 
#73
You know what...I absolutely loved the look on Telford's face during the first glitch.
 

Serxeid

Well-Known Member
#74
This is certainly a more realistic and sobering take on the old body-swap plot.

Edit: Holy crap, Rush is a magnificent bastard.
 

Hawk

Well-Known Member
#75
Rush was awesome. However what I found more amazing was he got that other guy to go along with his plan.
 
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