Evangelion The Box

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Nope, they don't, they only came up with one for Jake, for plot purpose's, none of the rest of the group have last names.

Unless we make them up.

Due to the fact I'm a huge fan of "One Least Likely", a really good Animorphs fic, I use these names for them:

Jake Berenson
Rachel Berenson
Marco McCabe
Cassie Verenda
David Hunting

Tobias' last name probably isn't "Fangor" since his mother doesn't remember Elfangor, so... Got me for me.

Having looked up that fanfic and read it (all in one night, because once I start reading something I get hooked on I CAN'T STOP and for Christ's sake I need to learn to not start >100 kiloword fanfics at 3 AM), I can now see where you got your inspiration for David being an independent operator who wanders around the world with a super-advanced spaceship.

It's a little cheesy in some parts but overall it's still one of my favorite stories ever.

 

[FLCNPNCH]

Nevermind the Angels, the Eva were also biological, right? The "real" purpose of NERV... is to create an even greater morph-weapon than the Howler.

The problem with that is the fact that 1) EVAs are FULL OF F**KING RAGE and 2) AT-Field would probably interfere with Aquiring the EVA's DNA. Think of it as a sort of copy protection if you will - if you're fighting things that can transform too then you don't want them geting your greatest weapon. That said...

 

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Nevermind the Angels, the Eva were also biological, right? The "real" purpose of NERV... is to create an even greater morph-weapon than the Howler.

The problem with that is the fact that 1) EVAs are FULL OF F**KING RAGE and 2) AT-Field would probably interfere with Aquiring the EVA's DNA. Think of it as a sort of copy protection if you will - if you're fighting things that can transform too then you don't want them geting your greatest weapon. That said...

How would the AT Field prevent acquiring the Eva's DNA?

 

[B.B. Rain]

...Honestly, can't see how the AT Field would interfere beyond telekinetic blocks against the acquiring-necessary skin contact.

But as for EVA being a counter for Howlers, that gave me an idea.

EVA morph plus Helmacron shrink ray.

But just how useful would an EVA morph be, keeping in mind that the EVA we see are armored, cybernetically enhanced & restrained, carefully shaped, cyborgs? And that the morph would forgo the tech bits and any after-creation/externally-induced shaping or modification?

And that the EVA 01 Shinji acquired in that snip lacks an S2 organ? And field-morphing isn't exactly conductive to carrying multiple nuclear reactors for power?

 

[Jim Starluck]

Also, an Eva is largely cybernetic. If he were to acquire it, he'd morph to what its natural state would be. Given that the Evangelions were specifically genengineered to be cyborgs, I have a hard time seeing an Eva morph survive long without its cybernetics.

 

[Watashiwa]

Maybe not. Like I discuss in a topic over in the Talk section, an Eva is a lobotomized, cybernetizcized Angel. So it'd be a lot like having an Angel morph--freaking awesome, but really too large to be of any actual use in a combat situation.

Oh, and then there's the real problem: Angels are energy beings. They're composed of matter that is both a wave and a particle. If that's not an argument for "cannae change the laws of physics!" I don't know what is.

Unless the Howler is an energy being too...?

 

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Maybe not. Like I discuss in a topic over in the Talk section, an Eva is a lobotomized, cybernetizcized Angel. So it'd be a lot like having an Angel morph--freaking awesome, but really too large to be of any actual use in a combat situation.

Oh, and then there's the real problem: Angels are energy beings. They're composed of matter that is both a wave and a particle. If that's not an argument for "cannae change the laws of physics!" I don't know what is.

Unless the Howler is an energy being too...?

If the Evas are cloned Angels, and Angels are made out of some weird kind of energy, then... How did they clone them again?

... Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought.

Morphing just draws on the DNA, so whatever has been done to the Eva physically, it won't show up in the morph. It's kind of like cloning that way. So, if Shinji did morph his Eva, it'd probably be, as Wata said, like morphing an Angel. And I'm guessing an S2 organ might be a part of that setup.

Obviously not many places or situations he could use it in, and getting control of it would be a bitch and a half, but when you NEED it, you NEED it.

 

[Watashiwa]

Eh. I say cloned, but in the flashback where Yui gets absorbed, it turns out that they budded Unit 01 from Lilith.

Basically they sliced into it and started pulling. No idea how they got the shape. EDIT: Wait, Evas have human DNA. That's how they got the shape, they used human DNA as a template and shaped the Angel flesh around it.

If the Evas are cloned Angels, and Angels are made out of some weird kind of energy, then... How did they clone them again?

... Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought.

Do you know string theory? According to it, everything is made out of energy; light, matter, etc. It's possible that Angel flesh is just on enough of a different wavelength to not be recognized as a "valid" transformation.

Still, absorbing Angel DNA "might" have some interesting effects on an Eva pilot....

Oh, and the whole S2 organ thing? Since the Evas budded from the Angels and weren't created naturally, they lack S2 organs to start with. :huh.:

 

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Eh. I say cloned, but in the flashback where Yui gets absorbed, it turns out that they budded Unit 01 from Lilith.

Basically they sliced into it and started pulling. No idea how they got the shape. EDIT: Wait, Evas have human DNA. That's how they got the shape, they used human DNA as a template and shaped the Angel flesh around it.

If the Evas are cloned Angels, and Angels are made out of some weird kind of energy, then... How did they clone them again?

... Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought.

Do you know string theory? According to it, everything is made out of energy; light, matter, etc. It's possible that Angel flesh is just on enough of a different wavelength to not be recognized as a "valid" transformation.

Still, absorbing Angel DNA "might" have some interesting effects on an Eva pilot....

Oh, and the whole S2 organ thing? Since the Evas budded from the Angels and weren't created naturally, they lack S2 organs to start with. :huh.:

Okay, so he's morphing a giant human/Angel hybrid... That's possessed by the spirit of his mom...

Hmmm...

 

[Watashiwa]

Well, a full sized Eva form would look nothing like the Evas we see in the series--remember that the armor they wear has nothing to do with what they really look like. Hell, I can imagine him using it and freaking out about it looking nothing like what he recognized.

Personally, I say that Evas and Angels should be off limits--I mean, none of the Animorphs could morph into Cryak or the Ellimist, right?

 

[Jim Starluck]

Yeah, probably the best option.

 

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Well, a full sized Eva form would look nothing like the Evas we see in the series--remember that the armor they wear has nothing to do with what they really look like.? Hell, I can imagine him using it and freaking out about it looking nothing like what he recognized.

Personally, I say that Evas and Angels should be off limits--I mean, none of the Animorphs could morph into Cryak or the Ellimist, right?

True, but they were basically ascended beings without physical forms.

I think the Evas, Rei, and Kaworu should be allowed, but the Eva forms are big and impractical enough to limit their usage significantly. His preferred battle morph would be something smaller and he'd probably only use the Eva morph if it was literally the only thing he had that could counter a specific threat-Such as an Angel. That, or he could threaten to morph his Eva if he was in a standoff with NERV.

That, or maybe he could do a partial morph of the Eva to synch better with it.

 

[Watashiwa]

Huh, just thought of something. Even if Shinji and co. morphed into Angel/Eva/Rei form, they wouldn't be capable of using an A.T. Field. Rei is human until she fuses with Lilith, and lacks an S2 Engine. Kaworu is similar (he was genetically human but capable of manipulating an A.T. Field), and the Evas are capable of using an A.T. Field even without S2 Engines.

This implies that the ability to produce an A.T. Field is not a function of form, but a function of knowledge. Anyone could manifest an A.T. Field (probably), but only if you had the knowledge that it was possible, and knew how to.

Asuka and Shinji are the most likely candidates for the ability, because of a theory of mine that "syncing" with an Eva is actually adjusting your A.T. Field to it. Because they know what it feels like to use an A.T. Field in the Eva, they probably could do it in any form, as long as they knew it was possible.

Hence: Shinji might learn to use an A.T. Field in this timeline, regardless of form. I doubt that anyone else would, even if they all transformed into Evas.

Which is really a stupid idea. Can you say "This is the elimination of the possibility that 99.999 percent of humanity are the Animorphs"? Just make it a non-issue, AJT.

 

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

By the time Shinji would have to morph it, the covert war would be over and thus there wouldn't be much point in hiding it any more.

 

[Jim Starluck]

How exactly would he acquire the Eva, anyway? He never comes into contact with its actual flesh, just the entry plug or armor.

 

[daniel_gudman]

Well... morphing involves a hell of a lot more than just DNA. It involves a lot of meta-information that can't possibly be contained in the DNA sequence alone.

For example. Jake, age 14, acquires a wolf, age 3. He has a copy of wolf DNA, all of it, from touch. He then morphs into wolf, age 3, not wolf, age 1/2, or wolf, age 14.

Hell... it's mentioned in the books that the animorphs can change what their haircut looks like. That can't possibly be coded anywhere in the genome. There is a lot more than just DNA information, hell, there's a lot more than even the epigenome.

The whole "fuck conservation of mass" thing is explained by saying the mass balance is extruded into Z-space.

Z-space doesn't obey the same rules. No conservation of mass, no conservation of energy.

You know what else disobeys conservation? The supersolenoid of angels.

Ignore the actual power of morphing. Just think about what the fundamental physics of the Escafil Device implies. You can extrude meat from another dimension, without limit.

The genemixing that Ax did to create his human morph? Dude, mix and match life from all over the galaxy, randomize the gene expression to get new, previously impossible phenotypes, and eventually you have god-damn Ryoki.

The Evas are still exactly what they're billed as: prototypes. The end goal? Creating cabbits, so you can turn into a spaceship and fire lazors. Stick your brain in Z-space, so no matter how seriously your body is harmed here, in "reality," it doesn't matter, 'cause you can just grow a new one in like three minutes.

Ha ha, maybe the angels are time-travelling mostly-successful products of just such an engineering program.

 

[Jim Starluck]

Well... morphing involves a hell of a lot more than just DNA. It involves a lot of meta-information that can't possibly be contained in the DNA sequence alone.

For example. Jake, age 14, acquires a wolf, age 3. He has a copy of wolf DNA, all of it, from touch. He then morphs into wolf, age 3, not wolf, age 1/2, or wolf, age 14.

Hell... it's mentioned in the books that the animorphs can change what their haircut looks like. That can't possibly be coded anywhere in the genome. There is a lot more than just DNA information, hell, there's a lot more than even the epigenome.

The whole "fuck conservation of mass" thing is explained by saying the mass balance is extruded into Z-space.

Z-space doesn't obey the same rules. No conservation of mass, no conservation of energy.

You know what else disobeys conservation? The supersolenoid of angels.

Ignore the actual power of morphing. Just think about what the fundamental physics of the Escafil Device implies. You can extrude meat from another dimension, without limit.

The genemixing that Ax did to create his human morph? Dude, mix and match life from all over the galaxy, randomize the gene expression to get new, previously impossible phenotypes, and eventually you have god-damn Ryoki.

The Evas are still exactly what they're billed as: prototypes. The end goal? Creating cabbits, so you can turn into a spaceship and fire lazors. Stick your brain in Z-space, so no matter how seriously your body is harmed here, in "reality," it doesn't matter, 'cause you can just grow a new one in like three minutes.

Ha ha, maybe the angels are time-travelling mostly-successful products of just such an engineering program.

My point was more that acquiring something requires physically touching its body, and Shinji never has the opportunity to do so--trying to acquire an Eva through its cybernetics or armor would be like trying to acquire another human through a prosthetic or their clothes.

 

[Aarik]

Most of that would fail horribly.

You can only blend DNA that is fundamentally the same, only DNA from members of the same species, you couldn't mix, say, a chimpanzee and a shark, their DNA doesn't match up closely enough, hell, humans and Chimp's don't.

And there ARE limt's to Z-Space, Morph something to SMALL, and you get sucked in and die, I don't know about BIG, but there is probably some kind of upper limit.

Also, HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU SAY A GIGANTIC NIGH UNSTOPPABLE DEATH MACHINE WITH LIMITED REALITY WARPING ABILITY ISN'T USEFUL!?

ACQUIRE RAMIEL (The movie version would be best, but either would work) AND YOU CAN RAPE STARSHIPS.

Angel's (Except Rei and, to a lesser extant, Kaworu) run ENTIRELY off of instinct, which Animorphs can access better then the species they morph into.

It's just a matter of riding those instinct's, directing them where you want them to go.

More importantly, they should be able to, once they get control, just shut the call to Adam off.

As an example:

When they became Leeran's, they could turn their psy OFF.

Leeran's CAN'T DO THAT, they CAN NOT DO THAT, they are INCAPABLE of turning their powers off, the Animorphs could, because they aren't Leeran's, just wearing the form's of Leeran's, they don't have to strictly obey the rules of the bodies they're in.

And, to finish: You can acquire someone or something through a fresh enough blood sample.

So all Shinji has to do is jam his hand into one of the huge lake's of blood the Angel's make when they die.

 

[ringlhach]

Are you familiar with the term "overkill?"

Angels are, by and large, suited to destroying large amounts of people/territory/materiel at once. It's not exactly an infiltration thing, and there's no way you're going to hide one- Kaworu, Rei and (maybe) Adam Itself being the exceptions.

Believe me, collateral damage would be a major problem, since you're trying to either create a precision-strike situation or protecting people/places/things. An Angel would (probably) be able to destroy whatever's attacking, but the mass problem and the drawing-friendly-fire problem both may be issues.

An Eva, while not drawing friendly fire, doesn't necessarily have the firepower to do anything or the armor to withstand it. How much of the Evas' capabilities are from the raw organics? If it's not much, then would they even be able to stand/function on their own? Would they essentially be Angels? What powers, if any, would they have?

 

[Aarik]

The Animorphs did infiltration and sneaking and covert ops because they had NOTHING that could take Visser three/Ones various weapons of mass destruction masquerading as animals, not to mention the armies of laser toting humans, the walking salad shooters, and the death worms.

The war was kept covert because they COULDN'T WIN a straight up fight.

The Angel's CAN win a straight up fight.

Especially Angel's that can regen all damage in a few minutes.

NOTHING, Visser Three/One had could take any of the Angels, nothing.

If a single Animorph had gotten, say, Sachiel, the war would have been over, nothing the Yeerk's had on the planet could have taken Sachiel down, and I'm willing to bet Sachiel could blast a hell of a lot of their shit out of the sky.

 

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Yeah, but as we've seen in many modern wars, when fighting an enemy using covert warfare, you're not going to win with sheer firepower.

Also, here's a random image of Jake's Howler morph:

I thought it was cool, thus I'm sharing it.

 

[Rabe]

It should be noted that the EVA all started as functional Angel Clones and had to be Lobotomized and mutilated to be rendered controllable. So they should still have the DNA for the S2 organ.

 

[Andrew Joshua Talon]

Maybe we should leave the Acquiring Angels and Evas thing alone for now.

David Hunting is a wildcard with a stolen Yeerk ship. He is impersonating Kaji. How does he fit into everything?

 

[Rabe]

Maybe we should leave the Acquiring Angels and Evas thing alone for now.

David Hunting is a wildcard with a stolen Yeerk ship. He is impersonating Kaji. How does he fit into everything?

Kaji thinks David will back him up in uncovering in the truth of Second impact.

Kaji is probable off doing some in person snooping around NERV Massachusetts or NERV Nevada, as to Daivd I never got to know him.

 

[shakeval]

i already mentioned the dead angel, obviously recently dead, but that doesn't matter.

partial morphs, tentacls, frick'n lazer beams.
.......what if he permanently morphed into his body an S2 organ? two hours isn't hard, then touch the cube again.