The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

seitora

Well-Known Member
#26
probably a little bit more genre savvy

shield over your weak spot

your weak spot doesn't blow up after massive damage but rather takes several explosions followed by a strafing run before it blows up

doesn't blow up everything instantly, and presumably blows up if they're charging at that exact moment

however, they weren't genre savvy enough
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
#27
Altered Nova said:
This movie was great. I wasn't a huge fan of them rehashing the "oh no the badguys have a new planetbuster superweapon" plot for the third flippin' time, and I'm not convinced that emo too-edgy pretty boy wannabe Vader is a good villain (but I'll give him time to grow into the role for the next movie) but overall it was fantastic. Great characters, great action sequences, and lots of great nostalgic fanservice for the older fans.

I love how the stormtroopers are actually somewhat competent this time around. Just two TIE fighters were a credible threat to the heroes in the first spaceship chase, and I fuckin' lost it when Finn lights up a lightsaber for the first time only for a random kung fu trooper with a lightsaber-proof electrostaff to suddenly step up and whoop his ass. Captain Phasma ended up being a total disappointment though. She was easily captured and humiliated by the heroes. Why the hell does she even have the authority to single-handedly shut down the planetary shields from any random computer terminal on the base? You'd think that would be something that could only be done from the control room and only by multiple technicians working in tandem. And why was she willing to shut the shields down? A good stormtrooper would rather die than betray their comrades like that!

I also thought it was interesting that the First Order does not seem to practice the same "You have failed me for the last time" ruthlessness the Empire was famous for. Vader would have force choked the life out of Finn the moment he noticed him not following orders, but Phasma just has him scheduled for "reconditioning." At one point I was sure that Ren was going to murder one of his lieutenants who had delivered bad news about the droid, but instead he takes out his rage on some inanimate objects. Even supreme leader Snoke didn't seem like he planning to kill any of his subordinates for their incredible failure. Is this a kinder, gentler version of the dark side? Or does the First Order just not have enough resources to be able to waste personnel like that?

Stormtroopers were competent in the OT too. Everyone says they aren't as a meme, but every bit of 'incompetence' that happens in the films is a planned feint.

They absolutely wreck the Rebels in the opening sequence when Leia's blockade runner is taken by the Empire. They easily overpower the ship's defenses and crush all resistance. Obi Wan praises their marksmanship later in the film and recognizes their handiwork instantly on Tatooine.

Han Solo escapes the Empire on Tatooine and in space, but he's a notorious smuggler so this shouldn't be surprising. It is literally what he does for a living.

They let the Rebels escape from the Death Star in Episode IV to track them back to their base, in Empire, they steamroll the Rebels in every fight up until they have specific instructions to keep a high value target alive.

RotJ is the only movie where the Empire really gets overpowered at all. This includes the Death Star in IV, they lost there because of administrative arrogance, not being overpowered by the Rebel attack, all but one Rebel pilot is killed or forced to abandon the fight. Even in RotJ they are a single battalion taken by surprise by an indigenous army bolstering the Rebel forces they already knew were there. The Rebels were initially allowed onto the surface to begin with as well as part of the plan to draw the Rebel fleet into the trap above the moon.

The so called incompetence of the Empire in the OT movies isn't actually real and it's outright said directly in Episode IV, twice. Leia and Tarkin both mention it within moments of each other. It's all just a meme started by people who weren't paying attention when they watched the films.

It's also worth noting that it is unlikely that most of the Empire killed it's subordinates for infractions. We don't know how the normal discipline structure worked and Vader was not really part of the military structure. He was a representative of the Emperor, but didn't actually hold any sort of rank within the system. There was likely a discipline structure in place that did not involve strangling stormtroopers that screwed up, or even executing them. He was essentially an ambassador for the Emperor with a license to kill in his name.

It's also worth noting that we don't really see Vader killing anyone but those in command. There are allusions that he might, and he probably would in the right situation, but it seems like he holds the officers responsible most of the time and deals with them. It doesn't seem in the movies like the average Stormtrooper had much to fear from him, at least not directly, but their commanders might.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#28
Yes I know that the stormtroopers aren't really that incompetent and the main characters talk up how skilled they are, but we rarely got to see on-screen proof of it. Pretty much just the opening scene where they efficiently capture the rebel blockade runner and the Battle of Hoth. Every other big scene with stormtroopers they are always intentionally throwing fights or getting their shit kicked in by teddy bears wielding rocks and primitive bows and arrows. They didn't give viewers the impression of being a scary opposing force. They had an image problem, and I think the new movie does a good job of fixing that image and making stormtroopers somewhat intimidating again. Even if the protagonists do still gun them down by the dozen and Captain Phasma turned out to be a joke.

In Return of the Jedi Darth Vader implied that "death as punishment for failure" was standard operating procedure when he warned the crew of the second death star that it better be operational by the time the emperor arrived, because "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am." And since Vader kills people who fuck up too many times or too badly, I hesitate to even guess what the Emperor does to them.

But yeah you are probably right that a stormtrooper is probably not going to be personally executed by Vader for failure. He doesn't have time to deal with the small fry like that. But I think the officer in charge of those stormtroopers might have them executed them for failure if he thought their failure would make *him* look bad enough to draw Vader's attention. Not all of them, of course - Captain Needa probably knew he was going to die when he personally took responsibility for losing the Millennium Falcon and reported that failure to Vader, but he did it anyway to protect his men. But if Vader and the Emperor himself set the example of "failure equals death", then at least some of the officers working under them are going to emulate that disciplinary method.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#29
The art of Star Wars has some unused Concept art like this one:


The idea being that Luke and Anakin's force ghost would have a little chat. As much as I love the redemption of Anakin Skywalker....I like this idea since it does acknowledge the things he's done.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
#30
Altered Nova said:
Yes I know that the stormtroopers aren't really that incompetent and the main characters talk up how skilled they are, but we rarely got to see on-screen proof of it. Pretty much just the opening scene where they efficiently capture the rebel blockade runner and the Battle of Hoth. Every other big scene with stormtroopers they are always intentionally throwing fights or getting their shit kicked in by teddy bears wielding rocks and primitive bows and arrows. They didn't give viewers the impression of being a scary opposing force. They had an image problem, and I think the new movie does a good job of fixing that image and making stormtroopers somewhat intimidating again. Even if the protagonists do still gun them down by the dozen and Captain Phasma turned out to be a joke.

In Return of the Jedi Darth Vader implied that "death as punishment for failure" was standard operating procedure when he warned the crew of the second death star that it better be operational by the time the emperor arrived, because "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am." And since Vader kills people who fuck up too many times or too badly, I hesitate to even guess what the Emperor does to them.

But yeah you are probably right that a stormtrooper is probably not going to be personally executed by Vader for failure. He doesn't have time to deal with the small fry like that. But I think the officer in charge of those stormtroopers might have them executed them for failure if he thought their failure would make *him* look bad enough to draw Vader's attention. Not all of them, of course - Captain Needa probably knew he was going to die when he personally took responsibility for losing the Millennium Falcon and reported that failure to Vader, but he did it anyway to protect his men. But if Vader and the Emperor himself set the example of "failure equals death", then at least some of the officers working under them are going to emulate that disciplinary method.
Not really in regard to the Stormtroopers. In fact, most of the time we see them when they aren't dealing with Luke directly they are deadly competent and have the Rebels on the ropes. They steamroll them again in the opening segment to Empire, have them on the run and cornered in Cloud City, and through most of Endor they effectively keep the Rebels at bay and under control until the Ewoks show up and surprise them with numbers. Even then their heavy equipment puts up a hard fight and a lot of the natives die dealing with them, it's just the ground troops that get overwhelmed, and the armor doesn't fall until it loses it's ground support and has one of it's own taken by the Rebels and turned against them. Even when Leia and Lando escape Cloud City they do so by raising a smoke screen and making use of cover while using the city's security and the panic of a mass evacuation to help them make their way to the ship.

Even dealing with Luke the Stormtroopers don't show incompetence in Empire. They effectively herd him to Vader, which is exactly their job.

The only time we see incompetence from the Stormtroopers in the OT films is during the Death Star sequence in Episode IV. It's almost like they're goofing off, and it turns out that's almost exactly what's going on in a big reveal after the Rebels escape, and Leia at least is aware of it too.

I also agree that is how Vader normally deals with failure. However, I also think it has to do with the level of failure involved, even with him. The guy he choked out on Hoth screwed up a surprise attack, which would cost the Empire in lives and resources. The loss of the Falcon was a more personal thing to him and why it set him off. I doubt he would have killed him had it been pretty much any other ship. I don't think Needa was being so much brave and taking one for the team as he wasn't expecting his failure to be quite so severe and wasn't aware of Vader's personal investment in that particular ship's passengers. In Jedi, Vader implies that he can be somewhat forgiving from time to time depending on the situation. The officers probably have a similar but less extreme policy, yes failure can mean execution, but there's a threshold for that and normally other punishment is more appropriate.

Finn's punishment made sense given his situation. He had trouble dealing with his first combat mission and freaked out. There was no indication that he was being disloyal, only that he got scared and had trouble dealing with it. Some of his friends died, and he was shaken up. He even went off on his own to remove his helmet and take a breather in private, he just got caught. He also responded well to questioning. I doubt 'reconditioning' is a very severe thing and that it probably just means temporary reassignment and additional training. Don't take that to mean I'm saying it's pleasant and relaxing, just that it's probably not going to involve electroshock therapy and mind rape or anything like that.

I'm hoping Phasma gets treated better in Episode VIII assuming she's in the movie at all and doesn't just end up as a running gag or Boba Fett. She was definitely wasted in Force Awakens.

I'm also unsure that one console was the shields for the entire planet. I think it might have just been the shielding on the area they were intending to assault. The heat sink/regulator or whatever. It sounded like Phasma was counting on her men and the First Order to deal with the Resistance, but yeah, she should have refused and given up her life in that position before doing something like that.

This could be turned to the advantage of the character if she's royally pissed about it in the next movie and becomes a hardass and gets approval for going after Finn herself to deal with a chip on her shoulder about him and take back her reputation and honor. I could see her being used as a relentless hunter over a personal vendetta after what was done to her here.

Seeing as Kylo killed Han Solo, the other person involved with humiliating her, I can easily see her being particularly loyal to him in the future and taking a position as his personal enforcer. They could also go the way of having her dishonored and thrown out of the Order and going after Finn because she blames him personally for it.

Of course, they could go the other route and have her getting thrown out of the First Order for her failure and ending up with the Resistance. Which could also be a way to go with her narrative as a character I guess. Rather see her end up a badass and go full dark side though, that would be a lot more interesting.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#31
It's actually kind of ironic that the First Order didn't execute Finn for defying orders like Vader might have done, because sparing him is what led directly to their defeat and the destruction of Starkiller Base. Although to be fair, they also would have won if they'd been smart enough not to put a guard scheduled for reconditioning in charge of a member of the resistance, or put more than one guard in charge of their VIP prisoners (a mistake they repeated later in the movie with Rey!).
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
#32
Altered Nova said:
It's actually kind of ironic that the First Order didn't execute Finn for defying orders like Vader might have done, because sparing him is what led directly to their defeat and the destruction of Starkiller Base. Although to be fair, they also would have won if they'd been smart enough not to put a guard scheduled for reconditioning in charge of a member of the resistance, or put more than one guard in charge of their VIP prisoners (a mistake they repeated later in the movie with Rey!).
I got the impression Fin wasn't really assigned to guard Poe and wasn't where he was supposed to be when he pulled that off. He just used his uniform to get there and knew enough protocol to pull off getting him out. He defied orders and didn't go to reconditioning at all, [this is mentioned later on when Phasma is talking to Kylo,] but the system hadn't caught up to him yet. Kind of like how Luke and Han used uniforms to get to Leia, except he actually knew how to behave and respond well enough to not get caught partway through his rescue attempt. It was something he made happen and not luck of the draw in his assignments.

I do suspect she had some training, and that Kylo might have known more about her than he let on, but that's speculation right now. Just from what is in the film, there was no reason for anyone there to suspect she could use the force anywhere near well enough to pull off her escape, even if they did know she was sensitive.

I also think the Rey situation is kind of excusable as well. I'm sure there were other patrols, but no one had any reason to suspect Rey would be able to do what she did at all, as far as we know she had no training and all Kylo knew was she was strong enough with the Force to resist him, but he also managed to glean a bit from her mind and emotions, so she wasn't strong enough to completely stonewall him either. There was no reason to even suspect she might be able to mind trick her guard at that point as far as we know. One guard should have been more than enough given what they knew.

Yeah, it did bite them in the ass though. I'm not saying it didn't, just that I wouldn't really call the duty of keeping an eye on someone strapped into Kylo Ren's mind rape chair a duty that should have really required more than one guard. Especially considering where they were and the amount of patrols that would likely be moving through the area. As far as what we know just in this movie, all they knew is that she was a nobody who got swept up into the situation with the Droid and involved with Han Solo, who had no direct ties to the Resistance at the time. They didn't even know she was Force sensitive until immediately before that scene when Kylo tried digging into her head.

She wasn't really a VIP prisoner at that point. They were expecting Kylo to rip the map out of her head and she was of no note beyond that and her association with Han. Kylo might have tried to bait his father with her maybe, but I'm not so sure he wouldn't have just disposed of her after he had what he wanted from her.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#33
The fact that she was their only link to the map and that Kylo Ren had taken a personal interest in her should have been enough to qualify Rey for VIP prisoner status, at least until Kylo actually *got* the map out of her head. Plus they already lost one prisoner just days earlier partly because he had only had one guard, so they really should have learned from that mistake. There was no good excuse to only have one trooper watching her, that was pure incompetence.

Also why weren't they able to find her after she escaped? Doesn't their futuristic sci-fi military base have anything as basic as simple security cameras? Or door locks? Seriously, all of the heroes were able to sneak into and through that base way too easily. Real world military bases have better security systems than the First Order does.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
#34
Altered Nova said:
The fact that she was their only link to the map and that Kylo Ren had taken a personal interest in her should have been enough to qualify Rey for VIP prisoner status, at least until Kylo actually *got* the map out of her head. Plus they already lost one prisoner just days earlier partly because he had only had one guard, so they really should have learned from that mistake. There was no good excuse to only have one trooper watching her, that was pure incompetence.

Also why weren't they able to find her after she escaped? Doesn't their futuristic sci-fi military base have anything as basic as simple security cameras? Or door locks? Seriously, all of the heroes were able to sneak into and through that base way too easily. Real world military bases have better security systems than the First Order does.
Eh. Two different situations in two different places. She was a young woman who was basically chained down to a slab, that normally doesn't require much of a guard. It wasn't like they just left her sitting unsecured on a bench with one guy standing there staring at her. She was secured and there was no reason to believe she had anything remotely resembling a means of escape.

Poe didn't just get up and walk out on his own. He had inside help from a defector who was fresh from training. It's likely that the guy guarding Rey was anything but a newbie fresh out of training camp. He was probably a veteran with a record of service and loyalty.

I also think you're vastly overestimating the security measures on the average military base. They don't have security cameras in every hallway or the staff to monitor such a system if they did have such measures. I spent a few years in the Army and I've been in a few high security areas, they are mostly patrolled by guards on foot, and while there are security cameras in strategic locations, they very rarely cover the entire ground, and if they do aren't close enough to identify every person walking through. Security feeds are mostly for monitoring after the fact to ID who was there after something occurs and aren't really preventative measures in most cases.

Security IDs, patrols, and checkpoints are far more relied upon for base security than a monitoring system. They are a security enhancement at best and their usefulness is vastly overstated in film in that kind of security capacity. I've been the guy patrolling the halls or sitting at a checkpoint next to a phone or radio.

Yes, you can have guards watching feeds for at the moment security, but that is generally limited in effectiveness. One person can only monitor so many feeds, so you don't ideally rely on this as security outside of very specific highly secure areas, despite what many movies show. You do want cameras there, don't get me wrong, but they are investigative tools more than active security measures.

Cameras are effective as a deterrent by way of identifying in most cases. A criminal might not trespass, rob, or steal in front of a camera because it identifies them to authorities. They don't work very well as security against those who don't care if they are identified after the fact.

Put simply, getting in is the hard part. Once you're in, getting around unnoticed isn't that hard. That's not to say it's easy or that you don't have to be careful, just that it's far from impossible.

Rey avoided traffic areas in the movie and was climbing around the base where she could. She was climbing around maintenance shafts and not slinking through hallways. This is a feasible means of avoiding security in a place like that. She had been scavenging Imperial ships on Jakku, and likely knew her way around the kind of engineering used to make the base on a basic level. It's pretty clear it was at least based on old Imperial engineering and was likely similar enough she didn't have that much trouble navigating through it.

Han had Fin with him, who knew the base well enough to know what security would be in place and probably how to bypass it. He likely knew what areas were patrolled, where security monitoring systems were, and had help from a notorious smuggler and former member of the Rebellion who knew Imperial protocols and security measures, a faction of experienced resistance militia members, and plot armor.

Incidentally, sanitation is actually a good way to learn this stuff in reality. It's probably the lowest level job that grants the most access to the largest area of a base with high security. That access is limited, but it would be a good way to learn what sort of measures are in place and where things are in general.
 

zerohour

Well-Known Member
#35
I enjoyed the movie for the most part, but had two major complaints.

One was simply too much time had passed and too much had changed from Return of the Jedi to the Force Awakens.  I think they really should have an in between story there, to show how things developed to where they are at the start of the movie.  Hopefully, since Disney seems to be going with the rapid fire methodology, we'll see something relating to that as a separate movie, or they'll do their best to integrate it with the rest of the plotline.

Second: The Goddamn Map.  The critical section was somewhere in the middle of the galaxy, yet somehow that means that no one has any idea where it was.  From what I understand, the closer you are to the core, the more populated and civilized the territory is.  If it had been along the Rim, I could have understood that, but it seemed like it was somewhere in the middle of the galaxy.  It's the equivalent of losing track of a few states here in the US.  Mainly a nitpick, I know, but it bugs me.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#36
Didn't someone in the rebel base say that it didn't match any maps of known space when BB-8 first showed them the fragment it had? I assumed that meant that Luke was somewhere way out in the middle of nowhere on the edge of the galaxy.

Now that I think about it... what triggered R2-D2 to awaken from low power mode to give them the rest of the map? Was it the arrival of Rey? Did R2-D2 recognize her? If so, what if she'd shown up without the missing map fragment?
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
#37
zerohour said:
I enjoyed the movie for the most part, but had two major complaints.

One was simply too much time had passed and too much had changed from Return of the Jedi to the Force Awakens.  I think they really should have an in between story there, to show how things developed to where they are at the start of the movie.  Hopefully, since Disney seems to be going with the rapid fire methodology, we'll see something relating to that as a separate movie, or they'll do their best to integrate it with the rest of the plotline.

Second: The Goddamn Map.  The critical section was somewhere in the middle of the galaxy, yet somehow that means that no one has any idea where it was.  From what I understand, the closer you are to the core, the more populated and civilized the territory is.  If it had been along the Rim, I could have understood that, but it seemed like it was somewhere in the middle of the galaxy.  It's the equivalent of losing track of a few states here in the US.  Mainly a nitpick, I know, but it bugs me.
There are books, games, and comics that cover some of that period now. There will be games and other media in the future that do as well, some of which has already been announced. The age of the OT actors had a lot to do with why they did what they did, and lore will probably not really be established until the trilogy is complete. They don't want to give away things that are plot essential to the next couple of movies. There are probably a lot of restrictions on what people working on those things are allowed to get into and characters and events that are off limits at least until the Trilogy is finished.

This sounds like it's mostly a problem because you're not used to not having the other movies available right away. There are two more movies to flesh that history out with, and no doubt tons of other media to do so as well. The prequels don't really count, because we all knew where the story ended up eventually going into those. This is a little different. Most of the expanded universe stuff that really gets into the details of that period probably won't be released until after the trilogy is complete because portions of that part of the timeline will be important to the next two movies.

You're thinking about the map the wrong way. The problem wasn't that they didn't know the region, it's that they didn't know where Luke was in the area. It's not like they lost him in a city, but a section of galaxy, that's a huge area that he could have been anywhere within. It wasn't that the area was uncharted, it's that the map led to a specific point in that area. It's essentially a treasure map, and isn't meant to chart the region, but rather to lead to a specific point within it. It doesn't matter how well charted an area that size is, unless you have a map that tells you where the treasure is located, you're going to have a hard time finding it. That was why both sides needed the map, because they were looking for a trail that led to a very specific location. The fact that it may or may not have been previously charted is largely irrelevant in the context of the map.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#38

I am now forced to ask myself....do I Want Ben Solo Redeemed or would I prefer to see Rey or Finn cut Kylo's head off....decisions decisions.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
#39
Ordo said:
I am now forced to ask myself....do I Want Ben Solo Redeemed or would I prefer to see Rey or Finn cut Kylo's head off....decisions decisions.

If you ask me, this is clearly setting up a redemption arc that ends with Ben sacrificing his life for the greater good. Finally ending up like his idolized grandfather in the end.

He's a much bigger threat and ass in the next film most likely, and then the good in him finally wins out in the finale of the third film. Possibly after the tragic death of his mother at the hands of Snoke or one of the other Knights of Ren. Possibly to protect his cousin/sister if that pans out to be true.

Given what we see of him in this film, we know he has good in him and internal conflict over it that he struggles with. Not having that win out in the end is kind of outside the themes of the movies in general.

I doubt he survives his redemption, and if he does, he ends up taking over for Luke after he dies to rebuild the Jedi as penance. I seriously doubt that the latter will happen, but it's still possible with the current state of things. Much like Vader, he didn't actually build or fire the super weapon himself, and really just didn't do anything to stop it. He's culpable by way of being complicit, but not to the point where it's impossible to forgive or really something they can put on his head in a war crimes trial.

As far as we see, the worst thing he's done is kill his own father, and if he turns back that's going to weigh on him for the rest of his life. That would probably be a greater punishment than just killing him would be assuming he does eventually turn against the Dark Side.

Like Tarkin before him, Hux is the one who likely takes the brunt of that blame. He was in command and the one who oversaw the base and ordered the use of the weapon.

On a slightly related note, I am more interested than I previously was in the new X-men movie after seeing Oscar Issac in Force Awakens. It'll be interesting to see what he does with the role of Apocalypse.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#40
 

Antimatter

Well-Known Member
#41
Few thoughts on the movie having seen it twice:

Rey: something is definitely up with her past. When she heard from BB-8 that his past/origin was classified, she says 'me too. Big Secret'. Her force sensitivity, and rapid gaining of powers, make me think shes pretty heavily connected to it, though I don't know if shes luke's child. After all, she seemed amazed that he was actually real, an odd thing to say about one's father. But then again, the saber calling out to her thing...

Finn: A bit of a jobber in this film, like he doesn't quite know what to do, which is reasonable given hes never seemingly been in a fight. He's good with a blaster though, and damn bold. His bromance with Poe was probably my favorite bit in the movie. A few minutes of screentime established them as well, the start of a beautiful friendship.

Kylo: Came off as a child playing the role of ones role model, without all the badassness that that role model had. He wants to be his grandfather, but lacks the training and history that made his grandfather who he was. Emotionally unstable, and far too gray for his liking, he acts like he thinks a sith lord should act, but his heart doesn't seem to be in it. He's, honestly, more like what I would have wanted from Anakin in the PT. His obsession with Rey makes me think he knows her from her life before, and he wants her as his apprentice, like a true sith would.

Poe: needs more screentime, but a good start. He's a badass pilot, but we need more to him. Hopefully they play with the bromance a lot mor ein Ep 8 and 9.

Phasma: If Kylo is going to be the mirror/antagonist of Rey, then I hope she becomes the antagonist for Finn. I say have her exiled form the order for her dropping of the shields, having got the hellout of dodge when she realized they had lost that base. I'd have her hunting Finn hoping that her bringing back the head of the 'traitor' would get her back into the FO's good graces. I'd have her not in armor in Ep 8, only realized near the end who she is.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
#42
Antimatter said:
Few thoughts on the movie having seen it twice:

Rey:  something is definitely up with her past.  When she heard from BB-8 that his past/origin was classified, she says 'me too.  Big Secret'.  Her force sensitivity, and rapid gaining of powers, make me think shes pretty heavily connected to it, though I don't know if shes luke's child.  After all, she seemed amazed that he was actually real, an odd thing to say about one's father.  But then again, the saber calling out to her thing...
The more I think about it, the more I think she kind of has to be a Skywalker, or a Solo. I heavily lean towards Skywalker.

Kylo will probably not survive the trilogy, and he's basically the end of the bloodline of that family. I doubt Leia is going to have any more kids, and Luke is no better off.

I'm not saying the main character of future films -has- to be related to Anakin, but I do think they realize that the family should have some sort of presence in later installments, even if just as an easter egg or reference.

Unless there are other Solo children we don't know about who didn't become Jedi or something, which is possible I suppose, but doubtful. I really don't see them completely erasing the bloodline from the franchise. The name Skywalker is too valuable for franchise purposes. I mean that outside of the films themselves. It's something that can help market EU stuff like books, games, toys, and comics in the future.

I wouldn't be surprised if Han and Leia were revealed to have other children who weren't Force sensitive later on, but at this point Rey basically represents the last hope of carrying on the name, and however someone might not like it, this is a franchise and the name is something that is well established in the brand. I don't see the studio letting it go so easily and killing off future characters bearing that name by eliminating the bloodline in this trilogy.

There are ways around that of course. Kylo or Luke might have secret love children or some such, but that kind of requires a lot of exposition to pull off. Rey is just the easiest answer at this point.
 

Ordo

Well-Known Member
#43


Seems some people are a touch annoyed about how Finn was marketed. Personally I'm good with it.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
#44
Ordo said:


Seems some people are a touch annoyed about how Finn was marketed. Personally I'm good with it.
Why? I've not seen any mention of it.

The fact that he's not the main Jedi character?

He wasn't really marketed that way and it was a pretty obvious feint when they showed him with the lightsaber. I called it from the start. It was clear they were implying he might be, but we never actually see him do anything but turn the weapon on and face off against Kylo. He's not wearing robes and doesn't do anything that looks like he's using the Force in any trailer.

It's also not to the point where he clearly isn't going to become one in the future. He's clearly not as strong in the Force as Rey is, or possibly just not as well trained, but he did manage to wield a lightsaber pretty well despite getting his ass handed to him. That could be chalked up to melee training as a Stormtrooper I suppose.

Despite Rey probably being the main character of the trilogy, Fin was really the lead in this movie. I fail to see what there is to complain about in regard to how he was marketed.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
#45
Potential spoiler for Episode VIII-IX below. Not a minor one either, the evidence here is pretty strong to support the rumor. You've been warned.



This is certainly interesting...

The theme music for Snoke and Plagueis is apparently extremely similar, implying that Snoke may in fact be Darth Plagueis, Palpatine/Darth Sidious's old master. I doubt this is coincidence.

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgirxblkje8[/video]

It would explain a lot including Snoke's damaged appearance, and why he's a threat to Luke.

This could be a big reveal in Episode VIII.

Once Kylo's training is complete and he takes on the title of Sith Lord, his title may change to Darth something, and not just because he's idolizing Darth Vader, but become he's from the same line of Sith Lords.
 

shiki

Well-Known Member
#46
That makes some sense considering the whole immortality thing that was hinted of in Sith.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#47
I sure hope it's true, because it would be way better than them just making up a new Sith Lord to be the ultimate villain from nowhere.

Well, I suppose there's also that theory that become popular on the internet lately, that Jar Jar Binks was a secret Sith Lord in the prequel movies who was manipulating everyone and was responsible for every bad thing that happened. So Snoke could actually be Jar Jar Binks in disguise. Recall that Snoke never actually appeared in person in the movie, it was always a holographic projection...
 

shiki

Well-Known Member
#48
Well, considering that Jar Jar played a huge role in the fall of the Republic and pretty much green-lit the way for the formation of the Empire... it WOULD be one way to redeem the character. But I doubt it considering that JJ Abrams jokingly said that they wanted to put Jar Jar's skeleton in a scene.

I have a minor hope that he does turn out to be the big bad but that would be asking for too much.
 

daniel_gudman

KING (In Land of Blind)
Staff member
#49
So I went and saw it.

Initial impressions:
1) I could tell when JJ Abrams was just ticking off the checkboxes on his "Hero's Journey" punchlist.
2) "Kylo Ren" is a good idea, it's a pity he ended up being such a goomba loser.
3) Why wasn't Finn a little more ambivalent about murdering everyone he'd ever known? His epiphany was "hey I don't wanna massacre villages", so why was blowing up his own village on Death Star 3 okay?
4) Will the orchestra ever stop playing?

In the end, it was doing the right things, but I couldn't really take any of it seriously because the characterization was all so half-assed.

I might see the next movie, if I'm not too busy with other stuff.
 

Rising Dragon

Well-Known Member
#50
The real hilarity would be Jar Jar enabling the ultimate victory in the final movie of the trilogy. All that rage it'd produce would be enough to make a new Dark Side character for another three movies.
 
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