Harry Potter Wow... I never thought anyone could fail this much
- Thread starter GenocideHeart
- Start date
My memory is a bit shoddy as far as some aspects of the HP system goes, but I think HP Magic has something going for it that a lot of people seem to overlook, even J.K. Rowling:
Transfiguration.
After all, it's a bit hard to fight someone when they turn you into a cockroach and step on you, or turn you into a chair before smashing you into kindling. I really don't see why more Wizards don't use it in fights. Transfiguring someone doesn't involve a flashy curse you can dodge easily, and it seems mighty hard to defend against or reverse by yourself. It's like a really nice polymorph spell.
Seriously, Harry should just transfigure Voldemort into a toilet until the horcruxes are found and eliminated, and then hit him with a 10 pound maul.
Transfiguration.
After all, it's a bit hard to fight someone when they turn you into a cockroach and step on you, or turn you into a chair before smashing you into kindling. I really don't see why more Wizards don't use it in fights. Transfiguring someone doesn't involve a flashy curse you can dodge easily, and it seems mighty hard to defend against or reverse by yourself. It's like a really nice polymorph spell.
Seriously, Harry should just transfigure Voldemort into a toilet until the horcruxes are found and eliminated, and then hit him with a 10 pound maul.
Ahh I think using transfiguration one a human is pretty hard and it takes some time, enoug time for an enemy to counter and stop the wizard from changing you even further.
And HP against Negima?
Well if you compare the magic systems alone, HP would still lose. You can use magic in so many different ways in Negima, most HP wizards would be dead before they know it.
If you want to compare the strength of the most powerful magic users in both worlds ... :snigger: Doesn't really matter if it's Dumbledore or Voldemort, they would still lose.
And HP against Negima?
Well if you compare the magic systems alone, HP would still lose. You can use magic in so many different ways in Negima, most HP wizards would be dead before they know it.
If you want to compare the strength of the most powerful magic users in both worlds ... :snigger: Doesn't really matter if it's Dumbledore or Voldemort, they would still lose.
i'm getting kind of confused are you talking about specific charcters fighting or diffrent magic styles competing or just how powerful each system of magic is.
Also you've got to rember that the HP magic system and all its areas aren't very well devloped with only a few spells used with any regularty most of which are school spells apart from the unforgivedles. I don't think JKR every really explains the magical laws the HP system needs to conform to.
Also you've got to rember that the HP magic system and all its areas aren't very well devloped with only a few spells used with any regularty most of which are school spells apart from the unforgivedles. I don't think JKR every really explains the magical laws the HP system needs to conform to.
GenocideHeart said:
Negima itself, and Akamatsu, bashes us over the head with this FACT with Evangeline's words: A MAGISTER MAGI IS INCREDIBLY VULNERABLE WHEN SPELLCASTING AND THAT'S WHY THEY NEED A PARTNER. Eva herself said it, it's stated in the damn manga... what more do you want, a diagram? That's why I specifically said PARTNERLESS MAGE and spellcasting fight.
Simply put, outside of Evangeline (who uses unconventional magic, Negi noticed that first thing when fighting her) and maybe the Thousand Master himself, no Negima mage can cast fast enough to avoit a quick Reducto not only disrupting their spell, but also crippling them. -_-
Simply put, outside of Evangeline (who uses unconventional magic, Negi noticed that first thing when fighting her) and maybe the Thousand Master himself, no Negima mage can cast fast enough to avoit a quick Reducto not only disrupting their spell, but also crippling them. -_-
If you follow the manga throughly, you'll see that's not always the case. Thousand Master didn't need a partner, that's because he was a mage warrior, able to move fast, and recite his spells in short times. Negi himself can cast spells whilst moving, dodging attacks going at him.
I always thought the anime seemed to make the spellcasting slow in Negima. A mage usually learns the incantation language first, and if he can, speak it fluently without much hesitation. Its kinda weird to see Negi standing there for tens seconds before his spell is activated.
Granted, the HP verse is more reliable in terms of speed in recitation, few word spells, and even silent unincantated spells. But Negima mages have magic barriers around them that protect them from physical and magical attacks all the times, unless diactivated, and we can't assume all of them stay in one place as they cast their spells.
Evangline said there are traditional mages, and battle mages. If the former sticks around to make spells, then I will admit, without partners, they are in slight disadvantage around HP mages. But Battle mages? They'll dance around HP mages like nobody's business.
Demon Eyes Laharl said:
Granted, the HP verse is more reliable in terms of speed in recitation, few word spells, and even silent unincantated spells.
Or wandless casting for that matter
Some of you people are forgetting something important in the HP world.
Legimancy.... something like that.
If you can read minds at all time, you know what they are going to do, you know what the spell does, you know everything.
Combined with apperation and an unguarded mind you have an insta-kill with the killing curse.
That's all cannon as far as I know...
Legimancy.... something like that.
If you can read minds at all time, you know what they are going to do, you know what the spell does, you know everything.
Combined with apperation and an unguarded mind you have an insta-kill with the killing curse.
That's all cannon as far as I know...
Legimens needs eye contact, and not every HP mages knows how to use it effectively. Wandless magic is more dangerous than helpful as it can miss or do something different than what the spellcaster is aiming for.
Besides, Negima mages also have wandless magic. Not offensive ones, mind you, but still able to cast few spells without the help of wands.
Besides, Negima mages also have wandless magic. Not offensive ones, mind you, but still able to cast few spells without the help of wands.
Legilimency is pretty difficult to master in the first place, and without direct eye contact its power is greatly weakened. It also isn't practical in combat, as it would require you to concentrate on reading their minds than reacting to what they were doing.
The mages in Harry Potter have nothing on the combat mages of Negima. Even if you say the spell casting is superior, the fact is that if someone like Harry (who does not do much if any of a physical training regiment outside of Quidditch) can avoid them, then many Negima mages won't break a sweat against them. Some will, but most won't fight alone.
It's hard to judge how good an average mage is in Negima, but one thing's for sure-the "talented" mages are much more combat ready than anyone in the HP-Verse.
The mages in Harry Potter have nothing on the combat mages of Negima. Even if you say the spell casting is superior, the fact is that if someone like Harry (who does not do much if any of a physical training regiment outside of Quidditch) can avoid them, then many Negima mages won't break a sweat against them. Some will, but most won't fight alone.
It's hard to judge how good an average mage is in Negima, but one thing's for sure-the "talented" mages are much more combat ready than anyone in the HP-Verse.
Mereo Flere said:
It's hard to judge how good an average mage is in Negima, but one thing's for sure-the "talented" mages are much more combat ready than anyone in the HP-Verse.
How about we just settle this the way I love to settle things? IN A FIGHT!
DUMBLEDORE vs. THOUSAND MASTER!!!!!!
>.> Or pick your two fighters from both verses... and argue who will win and why.
SmileOfTheKill said:
Well I was a little outside cannon all around I believe...
I didn't really think we are saying Harry as he is in book 6 since well, he is sad and weak.
If we use cannon Harry, there is no point in judging others since he is weak and the only reason he hasn't died is for plot reasons.
I didn't really think we are saying Harry as he is in book 6 since well, he is sad and weak.
If we use cannon Harry, there is no point in judging others since he is weak and the only reason he hasn't died is for plot reasons.
And Harry.... planning was far from what he was doing. He just charged in after Snape. Like how Negi charged in to that demon in a black hat. <_< He has better preformances when he's calm or determined.
Demon Eyes Laharl said:
How about we just settle this the way I love to settle things? IN A FIGHT!
DUMBLEDORE vs. THOUSAND MASTER!!!!!!
>.> Or pick your two fighters from both verses... and argue who will win and why.
DUMBLEDORE vs. THOUSAND MASTER!!!!!!
>.> Or pick your two fighters from both verses... and argue who will win and why.
Even 10 year old Nagi would probably beat Dumbledore, given that it's implied the Thousand Master was stronger than Negi was at the Mahora Festival.
Mereo Flere said:
Dumbledore loses in speed, power, and pervertedness.
Even 10 year old Nagi would probably beat Dumbledore, given that it's implied the Thousand Master was stronger than Negi was at the Mahora Festival.
Even 10 year old Nagi would probably beat Dumbledore, given that it's implied the Thousand Master was stronger than Negi was at the Mahora Festival.
I wouldn't be so sure about experience.
Remember, Nagi formed a group to help participate in a war to fight mages presumably of comparable power, and the mages likely had their own partners, powered up by their contracts.
Who has Dumbledore had to face? Voldemort and his Death Eaters, the latter which had trouble against a rag tag group whose strongest member was Harry Potter at the time.
Battlefield experience definitely has to go to Nagi on this one.
And technicality?
Nagi beat Evangelion with little more than soup.
Remember, Nagi formed a group to help participate in a war to fight mages presumably of comparable power, and the mages likely had their own partners, powered up by their contracts.
Who has Dumbledore had to face? Voldemort and his Death Eaters, the latter which had trouble against a rag tag group whose strongest member was Harry Potter at the time.
Battlefield experience definitely has to go to Nagi on this one.
And technicality?
Nagi beat Evangelion with little more than soup.
Well... Dumbledore was credited with the defeat of Grinwald, but that doesn't really say too much since Grinwald's involvment and abilities were never revealed. Still, Dumbledore was also credited with a lot of other things, and when you're as old as him you do tend to know a few things (although senility does kick in quite viciously around then).
As to the arguement of HP magic vs other systems, HP magic is weakest simply because of now it is. (Note: those who want to just get a basic understanding of what I mean, skip to the bottom paragraph, those who want to go in detail or just dont have anything better to do, disregard this note)
In HP-verse, magic is mostly for peace time. Most spells are for personal comfort, sports, and entertainment, with a bit of combat spells for normal policing and animal control. The most important things to those wizards are preserving secrecy with a predominant isolationist and "not broken don't fix" view, so a great deal of combat spells would be forgotten/lost simply because they are not relavant, and new combat spells would not be developed for the same reason. The exception that is Voldemort/other Dark Lords is just that, exceptions that come every few decades and are usually over in a few years, so after the defeat of the dark lord it's just business as usual again.
Now, for just about all other universes where (casted) magic is available, such as Slayers, D&D, Negima, etc, it is used widely as a method of survival. For the Slayers and D&D-like universes, you have rampaging monsters, demons, bandit gangs, hostile tribes of orcs, trolls, drow, etc, etc running across the countryside. If you are an adventurer mage, you would most likely be packing some serious heat before you ever step 10 miles from your village/town/city, that is if you have any sort of survival instinct or common sense at all. By neccesity, to deal with the "wild and untamed" world, combat spells are widespread and REALLY nasty to be on the recieving end of. Even in Negima, although it is more similar to the HP-verse, mages actively go around the world and quest as opposed to the HP-verse's isolationist policies.
To sum up my above chunk of text, HP-verse doesn't really NEED a huge amount of combat spells for their regular lives/policing/animal control/secrecy, so powerful spells are forgotten/dont get developed. Other magical universes, however, NEED nasty spells that'll stop a rampaging demon or an army of trolls parked outside your city gates, so powerful combat spells are kept alive and taught to just about any graduate of the nearest mage academy, while new ways to hurt/kill/maim/inconvience the guys that want to eat you are constantly being researched.
As to the arguement of HP magic vs other systems, HP magic is weakest simply because of now it is. (Note: those who want to just get a basic understanding of what I mean, skip to the bottom paragraph, those who want to go in detail or just dont have anything better to do, disregard this note)
In HP-verse, magic is mostly for peace time. Most spells are for personal comfort, sports, and entertainment, with a bit of combat spells for normal policing and animal control. The most important things to those wizards are preserving secrecy with a predominant isolationist and "not broken don't fix" view, so a great deal of combat spells would be forgotten/lost simply because they are not relavant, and new combat spells would not be developed for the same reason. The exception that is Voldemort/other Dark Lords is just that, exceptions that come every few decades and are usually over in a few years, so after the defeat of the dark lord it's just business as usual again.
Now, for just about all other universes where (casted) magic is available, such as Slayers, D&D, Negima, etc, it is used widely as a method of survival. For the Slayers and D&D-like universes, you have rampaging monsters, demons, bandit gangs, hostile tribes of orcs, trolls, drow, etc, etc running across the countryside. If you are an adventurer mage, you would most likely be packing some serious heat before you ever step 10 miles from your village/town/city, that is if you have any sort of survival instinct or common sense at all. By neccesity, to deal with the "wild and untamed" world, combat spells are widespread and REALLY nasty to be on the recieving end of. Even in Negima, although it is more similar to the HP-verse, mages actively go around the world and quest as opposed to the HP-verse's isolationist policies.
To sum up my above chunk of text, HP-verse doesn't really NEED a huge amount of combat spells for their regular lives/policing/animal control/secrecy, so powerful spells are forgotten/dont get developed. Other magical universes, however, NEED nasty spells that'll stop a rampaging demon or an army of trolls parked outside your city gates, so powerful combat spells are kept alive and taught to just about any graduate of the nearest mage academy, while new ways to hurt/kill/maim/inconvience the guys that want to eat you are constantly being researched.