Nasuverse Darker Than FATE
- Thread starter MastaofBitches
- Start date
Well, put it this way. Would you feel happy about a forum system which allowed other members (even mods or admins) to read your private messages? I know I certainly wouldn't....
So, given that, do you think it particularly likely that he even has access to them?
But why would he bother? Killing her is the easiest solution, and the whole point of MoS Shirou is that he, like Kiritsugu, takes the easiest route.
It's possible that, over time, he would develop to think a bit differently, but that that point he'd literally only just made the decision to follow that route, and killing Sakura was fresh in his mind. He wouldn't be looking for a way to spare Rin, he would just kill her outright just to make sure, like Kiritsugu did with Sola-Ui and El-Melloi in the fourth war. Recall that they were of no direct danger to him, having been Geased to quit the war, and whilst it's quite possible that they could use their position to get revenge, the same applies to Rin here, possibly even more so. And, even if she were alive, she would never forgive Shirou for what he's done, unless she condoned the killing of Sakura in which case she is likely irredeemable (more so than Shirou) because the weight of what she'd done would crush her if she ever regained any emotions.
Shirou can, perhaps, shrug it off as being "for the greater good", even if he regains his humanity, but Rin doesn't think like that (her reasoning was "I must be a true magus, and true magi don't let heretics like Sakura survive"), and even if she did that does not eliminate the fact that she failed Sakura so utterly for the preceeding ten years (I'm not going to argue over whether she should have found out or not, but I can't honestly see Rin not feeling responsible for not helping Sakura when she had the chance, and she knows too little of her situation at that point to be able to say with any certainty that she couldn't have done anything).
So, given that, do you think it particularly likely that he even has access to them?
But why would he bother? Killing her is the easiest solution, and the whole point of MoS Shirou is that he, like Kiritsugu, takes the easiest route.
It's possible that, over time, he would develop to think a bit differently, but that that point he'd literally only just made the decision to follow that route, and killing Sakura was fresh in his mind. He wouldn't be looking for a way to spare Rin, he would just kill her outright just to make sure, like Kiritsugu did with Sola-Ui and El-Melloi in the fourth war. Recall that they were of no direct danger to him, having been Geased to quit the war, and whilst it's quite possible that they could use their position to get revenge, the same applies to Rin here, possibly even more so. And, even if she were alive, she would never forgive Shirou for what he's done, unless she condoned the killing of Sakura in which case she is likely irredeemable (more so than Shirou) because the weight of what she'd done would crush her if she ever regained any emotions.
Shirou can, perhaps, shrug it off as being "for the greater good", even if he regains his humanity, but Rin doesn't think like that (her reasoning was "I must be a true magus, and true magi don't let heretics like Sakura survive"), and even if she did that does not eliminate the fact that she failed Sakura so utterly for the preceeding ten years (I'm not going to argue over whether she should have found out or not, but I can't honestly see Rin not feeling responsible for not helping Sakura when she had the chance, and she knows too little of her situation at that point to be able to say with any certainty that she couldn't have done anything).
That's totally different, though.
You could, for instance, place an offensive image in your sig (and I don't just mean "Sakura being shot by Ilya", I mean something that could get the site itself in trouble), or write a sig that takes up half a page. So, it's perfectly reasonable for them to have the ability to edit that. Why do you think even 4chan boards have mods (albeit relatively lax ones)?
PMs, on the other hand, are exactly that. Personal. Unless you send something offensive to another person (in which case they can forward it to the mods themselves or take a screenshot), there is no reason for them to need to read it.
Well, Altima certainly claimed to me that he cannot, and I don't think he'd lie to me in that regard.
You could, for instance, place an offensive image in your sig (and I don't just mean "Sakura being shot by Ilya", I mean something that could get the site itself in trouble), or write a sig that takes up half a page. So, it's perfectly reasonable for them to have the ability to edit that. Why do you think even 4chan boards have mods (albeit relatively lax ones)?
PMs, on the other hand, are exactly that. Personal. Unless you send something offensive to another person (in which case they can forward it to the mods themselves or take a screenshot), there is no reason for them to need to read it.
Well, Altima certainly claimed to me that he cannot, and I don't think he'd lie to me in that regard.
Why all the discussion about Sakura? For all intents and purposes, she's dead in this idea, and this idea specifically tackles MoS!Shirou.
I mean, yeah, so people like Sakura, but it gets annoying when the entire thread is derailed into YASD. This already happens in BL, does it really need to happen in TFF?
I mean, yeah, so people like Sakura, but it gets annoying when the entire thread is derailed into YASD. This already happens in BL, does it really need to happen in TFF?
Be fair. If people didn't respond and just ignored him, there would only be his posts obsessing over Sakura. Instead, we have people responding and arguing even knowing he disagrees and won't change his view. But, yeah, it's mainly his fault. Especially with that thing where he said even if MoB deleted the thread and started a new one to get rid of the Sakura discussion, he'd post in that one, too, and start the whole thing over.
Since when has this discussion been "about Sakura"? She's only been mentioned where it's actually relevant. And, before you claim otherwise, she is relevant here, because killing her is what caused Shirou to take this path in the first place. Further, whatever Rin did at that time will also affect her.
That decision in HF is a life-changing decision for both of them, and thus even though she is dead, Sakura is still actually a very important character in this fic, albeit only as a ghost of the past and a representation of Shirou and Rin's regrets and issues.
That decision in HF is a life-changing decision for both of them, and thus even though she is dead, Sakura is still actually a very important character in this fic, albeit only as a ghost of the past and a representation of Shirou and Rin's regrets and issues.
Yes, until they (and now you) restarted it....
Well, then, what path do you like? The one where Sakura gets worm-raped for the rest of her life and then dies under Zouken's torture?
Yes, but not willingly.
How the fuck can you call killing Sakura justice. She never chose to kill anyone, and she was not in any way in control of the shadow. Zouken is the one responsible, and Zouken got punished accordingly. Sakura's own hyperactive conscience and the eleven years of horrific torture she went through provide provide far more of a punishment than she deserves for an act which she had no control over and made every effort to resist.
Well, then, what path do you like? The one where Sakura gets worm-raped for the rest of her life and then dies under Zouken's torture?
Yes, but not willingly.
How the fuck can you call killing Sakura justice. She never chose to kill anyone, and she was not in any way in control of the shadow. Zouken is the one responsible, and Zouken got punished accordingly. Sakura's own hyperactive conscience and the eleven years of horrific torture she went through provide provide far more of a punishment than she deserves for an act which she had no control over and made every effort to resist.
Thing is, you're basing everything on the basis of what happens to Sakura, when this idea has her dead, and the VN itself has her as a relatively insignificant character until her own grimdark-out-of-the-wazoo path.
Your problem here is that in a fic about Shirou, Rin, the Troll King of Trolls or whichever character MoB/the author's writing about, you persist in talking about Sakura. How would you like it if someone started spamming a thread about Sakura with posts about Zuoken and why he's so much more awesome and why he should have a larger presence, and then describing how Zuoken could theoretically inflict more abuse on Sakura?
Because that's the equivalent of what you're doing here. Hell, the OP tells you he doesn't want your input, and you start off another goddamned Sakura debate? What is it that you're trying to do, force your views down everyone elses' throats and be damned their opinions? Aggravate authors to the point where they'll hate on Sakura because you just won't shut up about her and her suffering?
It's getting to the point where I doubt anyone would be surprised if someone wrote a fic where Sakura dies in the most horrible and gory manner possible and becomes nothing more than a tragic footnote in the Grail War's history, while Shirou and Rin go off to live a life of sunshine and roses and all the world is better for the bloody passing of Matou Sakura, just to spite you.
Your problem here is that in a fic about Shirou, Rin, the Troll King of Trolls or whichever character MoB/the author's writing about, you persist in talking about Sakura. How would you like it if someone started spamming a thread about Sakura with posts about Zuoken and why he's so much more awesome and why he should have a larger presence, and then describing how Zuoken could theoretically inflict more abuse on Sakura?
Because that's the equivalent of what you're doing here. Hell, the OP tells you he doesn't want your input, and you start off another goddamned Sakura debate? What is it that you're trying to do, force your views down everyone elses' throats and be damned their opinions? Aggravate authors to the point where they'll hate on Sakura because you just won't shut up about her and her suffering?
It's getting to the point where I doubt anyone would be surprised if someone wrote a fic where Sakura dies in the most horrible and gory manner possible and becomes nothing more than a tragic footnote in the Grail War's history, while Shirou and Rin go off to live a life of sunshine and roses and all the world is better for the bloody passing of Matou Sakura, just to spite you.
She can;t be a hindrance if she's knocked out. And someone of Rin's status can be of use to Shirou in the future and that's one of the reasons he could keep her alive.
opinion
Off with her arm I guess :sisi:
Already been done.
Fate route, UBW good, UBW true and Last Episode :sisi:
To be fair, Altima is overweight, his family hates him, he's been desperately looking for a job for several years now, he likes a mediocre character, he's been raging against anti-Sakura people for years. After all that you can't blame him if acts like an asshole to people who don't share his tastes.
opinion
Off with her arm I guess :sisi:
Already been done.
Fate route, UBW good, UBW true and Last Episode :sisi:
To be fair, Altima is overweight, his family hates him, he's been desperately looking for a job for several years now, he likes a mediocre character, he's been raging against anti-Sakura people for years. After all that you can't blame him if acts like an asshole to people who don't share his tastes.
Go look at the other two routes again with hindsight. Rin quite clearly cares for Sakura, even there.
Because she is important here. And I'm not "talking about Sakura", I'm talking about the story. Sakura, despite being dead is important to this story due to the fact that she is the catalyst for Shirou being as he is now.
Honestly, I couldn't give a crap if MoB "wants" my input. His story as it stands is quite simply OOC, and I quite honestly don't give a shit if assholes like you want me to just ignore it.
Yeah, there are a lot of total assholes out there, so I wouldn't be surprised either.
She's only "of use" to him if she doesn't hate his guts. Which Kotomine would make damn sure was not the case.
You're failing totally to understand the mentality of Kiritsugu (and, by extension MoS Shirou) here. They take the attitude that it's best to do things in the quickest and most direct manner possible, and they don't faff around with things like "cutting people's arms off". If Rin is an enemy to be defeated, then Rin will die, just like Sola-Ui and Kaneyth died.
Because she is important here. And I'm not "talking about Sakura", I'm talking about the story. Sakura, despite being dead is important to this story due to the fact that she is the catalyst for Shirou being as he is now.
Honestly, I couldn't give a crap if MoB "wants" my input. His story as it stands is quite simply OOC, and I quite honestly don't give a shit if assholes like you want me to just ignore it.
Yeah, there are a lot of total assholes out there, so I wouldn't be surprised either.
She's only "of use" to him if she doesn't hate his guts. Which Kotomine would make damn sure was not the case.
You're failing totally to understand the mentality of Kiritsugu (and, by extension MoS Shirou) here. They take the attitude that it's best to do things in the quickest and most direct manner possible, and they don't faff around with things like "cutting people's arms off". If Rin is an enemy to be defeated, then Rin will die, just like Sola-Ui and Kaneyth died.
See, here's the thing, in order for fanfiction as a whole[/i[ to work as well as it does, you have to allow for certain characters to act OOc to create the divergence you want, otherwise people would just be retyping out the original source material.
You want a ShirouxSakura fic where Shirou finds out about her treatemnt early? Well, somebody has to become OOC enough to tell him, since nobody did in the source material.
Writing fanfiction is about manipulating the characters to create a the reaction we want, so that our stories can have some kind of originality, unless you want to simply write Fate/Stay Night out again word for word?
You want a ShirouxSakura fic where Shirou finds out about her treatemnt early? Well, somebody has to become OOC enough to tell him, since nobody did in the source material.
Writing fanfiction is about manipulating the characters to create a the reaction we want, so that our stories can have some kind of originality, unless you want to simply write Fate/Stay Night out again word for word?
No, bad fanfic makes the characters OOC to fit the story. Good fanfic simply changes the situation so that they act differently and follows on from that (which doesn't mean you can't take some liberties, but not to the point of outright OOCness).
After all, Shirou is not OOC in the three different routes of FSN (by definition...), and yet those three routes develop very differently. And, BTW, as far as your "Shirou finding out about Sakura earlier in the story" idea goes, I simply would not do that unless I had included some OC or similar who could shake things up a bit, or some plotline change which justifies it (which would be hard to find), because otherwise it is indeed not plausible.
And did you miss the part where I asked why the fuck Kotomine would act in a way which massively reduces his potential for trolling to benefit a guy who is the son of his arch-enemy and following very much in said enemy's footsteps?
After all, Shirou is not OOC in the three different routes of FSN (by definition...), and yet those three routes develop very differently. And, BTW, as far as your "Shirou finding out about Sakura earlier in the story" idea goes, I simply would not do that unless I had included some OC or similar who could shake things up a bit, or some plotline change which justifies it (which would be hard to find), because otherwise it is indeed not plausible.
And did you miss the part where I asked why the fuck Kotomine would act in a way which massively reduces his potential for trolling to benefit a guy who is the son of his arch-enemy and following very much in said enemy's footsteps?
We can access accounts, but we can't read PMs. Unless there's no way that Roadbuster (who is in IT) and I know of. We can access accounts to do things like add a member name which normal members can't and edit signatures when they take up half a frigging page or involve dogs throwing up on each other.
I usually ASK someone to change their sig first, unless it's something really offensive like the dogs throwing up on each other and eating the throw up (yes, someone did have that as their sig at BL) or if someone blatantly ignores my request.
Also, the reason we have the sig guidelines is that BL is visited by people around the world, and there are countries who severely limit internet usage. Not to mention not everyone is on broadband. Having giant sigs slow down the load time of the boards.
And why does everyone forget Archer in a MoS scenario?
I usually ASK someone to change their sig first, unless it's something really offensive like the dogs throwing up on each other and eating the throw up (yes, someone did have that as their sig at BL) or if someone blatantly ignores my request.
Also, the reason we have the sig guidelines is that BL is visited by people around the world, and there are countries who severely limit internet usage. Not to mention not everyone is on broadband. Having giant sigs slow down the load time of the boards.
And why does everyone forget Archer in a MoS scenario?
Fuck it, I give up.
MoB, I'm sorry, I tried, I really did, but talking to mike is turning out to be a total waste of time since he's desperate to trash your fic just because Sakura dies. I wish you the best of luck and I look forward to you finishing this.
Isn't MoS Shirou the Shirou that becomes Archer?
MoB, I'm sorry, I tried, I really did, but talking to mike is turning out to be a total waste of time since he's desperate to trash your fic just because Sakura dies. I wish you the best of luck and I look forward to you finishing this.
Isn't MoS Shirou the Shirou that becomes Archer?