Election: Mod 3

[Vexarian]

Uhh, no. I had a problem with it as well. I guess I just forgot to mention it.

Um.. K? I very much can't read your mind

As for having a poll and not an entire setup like we had for rules: In rules, you needed to choose between three-four options for several different catagories. You can't do that with a poll.

With the moderation, the fact is, you're choosing one person FOR moderation. If you're trying to vote against someone, you're doing it wrong an need a boot in the head.

At the end of the day, even if we judge each person individually, we still need to to compare them AGAINST each other to find who the mod ends up.

I think you misunderstand.

His suggestion was to implement a variation of an "Immediate Runoff Election", which is a concept in politics.

In a runoff election, you don't vote for one person, instead you rank the candidates based on who you prefer.

Then when the ballots are counted, the candidates are weighed accordingly.

A good way to demonstrate this is through example, say there are three candidates and three voters.

Voter X:
Adam
Ben
Carl

Voter Y:
Carl
Ben
Adam

Voter Z:
Ben
Carl
Adam

In this ranking, as there are three candidates, Adam receives 2 points from Voter X, and 0 from Y and Z. Carl receives 0 from Voter X, but 2 points from Voter Y and 1 from Voter Z. Ben receives 1 vote from Voter X, 1 vote from Voter Y, and 2 votes from Voter Z.

So the results are:
Ben with 4 votes.
Carl with 3 votes.
Adam with 2 votes.

Each candidate was the top candidate for one of the three voters, but those who voted for Adam preferred Ben over Carl, and those who voted for Carl preferred Ben over Adam. Thus making Ben the least disagreeable option overall.

ArchfiendRai's idea works on the same theory, except each voter can submit either 1 or 0 vote to each candidate. With 1 vote for those he agrees with, and 0 for those he disagrees with, and the most agreeable candidates winning the election.

 

[Shirotsume]

If you make "no" votes worth nothing, it's functionally no different from what we have, except you could vote for multiple people, something that is out of place in a single position vote.

I don't feel like that's what archfiend was talking about at all- I think he was referring to something where a "no" would be a -1 or something.

 

[ArchfiendRai]

Yeah that was my bad. >_>
I could have sworn I mentioned it it somewhere, but I guess not.


Ah I get it. I disagree though. It would have been an extra step yes, but I don't think it would have been an unnecessary one. I personally feel that seeing a person get 40 votes split 20/20 shows far less suitability than one person getting 20 votes and having it split, say, 18/2. In the same way, some people are voting for candidates who, sorry to say, show no hope of winning simply so that the two leaders don't get his vote.

This direct competition would have worked fine if it was 1v1 or even 1v1v1. However, with so many choices, I feel as though there is more room for it to go wrong than for it to go right.


And again, I know its too late to change anything now. This is just me getting my opinion out there, in case we need to elect more mods in the future. Its just an extra option, that we could always try out if needed. As it is though, best of luck to the two leaders.

 

[Vexarian]

If you make "no" votes worth nothing, it's functionally no different from what we have, except you could vote for multiple people, something that is out of place in a single position vote.

I don't feel like that's what archfiend was talking about at all- I think he was referring to something where a "no" would be a -1 or something.

That just makes no votes more valuable than yes votes.

And it wouldn't be out of place at all for a single position poll. Unless all of the candidates are functionally identical.

 

[Hardcore Heathen]

I'd just like to point out that the Alternative Vote, which I brought up way back when, would have avoided all of these issues.

Not that there really *have* been issues, but under an alternative vote we wouldn't have things like me swapping my vote to Vex because "I have no chance of winning." We have a severe spoiler effect at work because we can see the polls and then change our votes later.

Still though, this is way better than sitting around on our asses arguing over how to run an election for another month. So, Shiro, despite my (very minor) gripes, I just want to take my hat off to you and congratulate you on your hard work - and the way you've passed off the leadership mantle. You would make Cincinnatus proud.

 

[Vexarian]

Shiro really did do some excellent work setting up everything. The few problems I had, some of which turned out to be mistaken, were ultimately quite minor as well.

 

[ArchfiendRai]

Okay, let me see if I can get this right this time. I think I've actually got the idea fully concrete in my head now, and Shiro has the idea. No would be a -1.

We would use the same style of poll that we used to vote for the rules, using that other website. This way, each person gets at least one vote, either a yes or a no, from each person voting. For a nice, round number, lets use 80. Thats close enough to the number of voters we have right now.

So number one: Candidate A. People are in agreement that this person should NOT be a mod.
Yes: 19
No: 61

For a total of -42.

Candidate B. People are undecided. Some like him, some hate his guts.
Yes: 43
No: 37

For a total of +6 votes.

Candidate C. Love em.
Yes: 67
No: 13

For a total of +54.

Candidate D
Yes: 53
No: 27

For a total of +26

Now, I know what you're probably thinking. This seems like a waste of time. And normally I would agree. But we have 9 candidates to vote for. We had 13 in Mod I! We're not going case by case on each mod because they're all in direct competition during the vote itself

We're not going "You deserve this, so I'm voting for you." We're going, "D is an asshole so I'm voting for A." Not everyone is doing that. Some of us are honestly voting for who we feel is the best candidate, but we DO have at least one member who has specifically gone out and stated this. Not only that, but we can change our vote during the election. So when a candidate sees they're losing by a landslide, they can just bow out and throw his name under another candidate's banner.

The way I thought of it was that they would still be in direct competition, but only AFTER all the votes were cast, the poll closed, and the numbers revealed. We would only have needed one election for all three positions, with the three highest positives getting them.

_______

Now, I just want to make sure that this is understood: I'm not trying to badmouth Shiro. He's done a bloody excellent job, and I know I would have voted for him as admin, had he desired to stay on.

I'm merely a bit disappointed at the turn this last election has taken, where at least one member is voting for someone he knows cant win simply because he doesn't want either of the two leaders to take the position.

 

[chronodekar]

I can't believe that we're actually talking about voting systems now. Especially considering all the work I did earlier running and evaluating the different things.

Now, something that has me really REALLY worried is the name calling and blatant "I hate this rule" tone of posts that some of the MODERATOR candidates are voicing. We're effectively electing Policemen here. Your Damn Job is to ENFORCE the rules. Nothing else. And obviously, you are expected to obey them as well - to a higher standard.

It should be obvious whom I'm referring to and its disheartening to see the support he/she seems to be getting. If not, it simply means that I'm mistaking the jovial banter we are having here.

I voted for chronodekar.

Thank you for your support FlinFlon. I promise you (and all those who voted for me) that regardless of me winning this position or not, that I will act in the communities best interest to move TFF forward as a fun discussion point for fanfiction.

On that note folks, what is the minimum AGE you expect a TFF member to be? Considering that we have a lemon section, obviously we have many (including myself) +18 folks in here, but on the other end of the spectrum, how old should they be?

I'm thinking ... around 12 or 14 ?

I ask because, even if have decided on a "swear word" rule, there are some things that should NOT be mentioned to young ears.

-chronodekar

 

[Shirotsume]

OK, seriously, stop being sappy guys.

I should have nominated a rule against that kind of shit, we keep this up and the hive mind is going to want to start baking cookies for old grandmas or some shit.

 

[Vexarian]

It should be obvious whom I'm referring to and its disheartening to see the support he/she seems to be getting. If not, it simply means that I'm mistaking the jovial banter we are having here.

Say no more, I think we're all in agreement that Zerohour should feel very ashamed of themselves right now.

Also why don't we just go with 13, if we must have a rule on this at all. It's what most forums use, when they don't use 18.

 

[Watashiwa]

This is the last mod we'll be installing. We're nowhere near large enough to need more than five people with moderation ability. Heck, I don't think we need more than one.

 

[ArchfiendRai]

Fair enough.


I actually can't remember how old I was when I first started fanfiction in general. However, some of our stuff is certainly more risque and...err...violent. I sat 13 should be about the minimum age of our current members. (I don't think you're asking for us to assign a minimum join age, at any rate.)

 

[Vexarian]

This is the last mod we'll be installing. We're nowhere near large enough to need more than five people with moderation ability. Heck, I don't think we need more than one.

Then clearly it's all the more important that the right person wins.

Do the right thing, vote Vex.

 

[Get-lost]

Cookies? Team Chrono has Strippers! (No Granny! Keep your clothes on dammnit!)

Plus he seems like he wants to help. He can also admit when he's wrong about something. (Like his thanks idea)

 

[chronodekar]

Also why don't we just go with 13, if we must have a rule on this at all. It's what most forums use, when they don't use 18.

No, no. You mis-understood my intent. I don't meant to enforce/adopt some new 'rule' of how old you should be to join TFF. Because honestly, we have no way to verify any claims. For all you know, I could be a 10-year old brat who adopted my parents TFF account 2 months ago.

I just wanted a rule-of-thumb idea of how far we should mediate ourselves when talking about things outside the Restricted section.

For example, a few days back on gabriel_blessing's 'In Flight' forums, there was some confusion about making hentai suggestions in the 'manga recommendations' thread. Some suggested that as long as no direct links were posted, it would be alright. Me? It's a public board, so my suggestion was like,

"Imagine an 8-year old girl reading your posts while sitting next to you. Would you still make that post? If no, then don't post."

Looks like around here, I'll just replace that with a 13-year old girl.

And as tempted as some idiots are around here - no Pedobear jokes. PLEASE.

-chronodekar

 

[frostdragonz]

And as tempted as some idiots are around here - no Pedobear jokes. PLEASE.

Temptation is too great, must make a Pedobear joke now...
...
...
...
...
I got nothing.

You win this round chronodekar.

 

[chronodekar]

And as tempted as some idiots are around here - no Pedobear jokes. PLEASE.

Temptation is too great, must make a Pedobear joke now...
...
...
...
...
I got nothing.

You win this round chronodekar.

Wish there was some way to translate this to a vote in my favor.

-chronodekar

 

[frostdragonz]

And as tempted as some idiots are around here - no Pedobear jokes. PLEASE.

Temptation is too great, must make a Pedobear joke now...
...
...
...
...
I got nothing.

You win this round chronodekar.

Wish there was some way to translate this to a vote in my favor.

-chronodekar

Alas, your way with the words has swayed my vote to your favor.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Looks like around here, I'll just replace that with a 13-year old girl.

And as tempted as some idiots are around here - no Pedobear jokes. PLEASE.

-chronodekar

Too old.

/evil

 

[chronodekar]

Alas, your way with the words has swayed my vote to your favor.

Thank You! :blush: I am indeed honored by your decision.

Just another 2 more votes to match Vexarian's current number, a further 2 more to meet Ryuugi and 1 more to actually be in the lead. :exclamation:

And that's making a lot of assumptions. This is going to be harder than I thought.

-chronodekar

 

[zerohour]

Well, it seems I'm unlikely to win unless one of the candidates does something stupid...

...or appears to be doing something stupid... perhaps it's time for some photoshop magic... mwahahaha!!!

Edit: Vex, you basically stole my campaign speech, and whatever viotes it may have gotten me, after starting a new page so people were likely to miss it. Then you try to buy my support by promising NOT to enslave me as much as everyone else?!

...I'll get back to you

 

[Vexarian]

Well, it seems I'm unlikely to win unless one of the candidates does something stupid...

...or appears to be doing something stupid... perhaps it's time for some photoshop magic... mwahahaha!!!

Edit: Vex, you basically stole my campaign speech, and whatever viotes it may have gotten me, after starting a new page so people were likely to miss it. Then you try to buy my support by promising NOT to enslave me as much as everyone else?!

...I'll get back to you

Politics.

 

[chronodekar]

For what it's worth, with all the mud-slinging going around folks - I have always been as straight-forward as I can with you. If an issue comes up that affects TFF at large, you can expect me to bring it up BEFORE any decisions are made. While its difficult to satisfy everyone's desires, I do make an honest attempt to listen to every argument I can. Especially if they don't align with my way of thinking.

Some of the other candidates talk of enslavement - this is something I promise NOT to do (Seriously; what kind of an election campaign is that anyway? This isn't a hentai bondage forum, last time I checked). My vision for TFF (regardless of how my campaign goes) is to become a place for fun (and slightly off-topic) place for fan-fiction discussions. We finally have the opportunity to accept new blood and I don't want to start something that could stifle creativity.

I came to TFF looking for a place to talk about fan fiction. TFF was a big inspiration for me to become a fanfic author. Even with Hawk locking down the forum, I've always attributed TFF in my stories. I don't like brutal name calling and honestly, am the kind of wimp who would CRY if its thrown in my face (has happened a couple of times in RL too). But that has never stopped me from standing up and pushing forward solutions that I believe to be beneficial for all.

If I've convinced you that I'm the kind of guy you want policing TFF, then please vote for me. If you think someone else deserves that privilege - then vote for him instead. Though, I would like to hear what makes that person better than me - if you won't mind sharing.

-chronodekar

 

[Shirotsume]

Alas, your way with the words has swayed my vote to your favor.

Thank You! :blush: I am indeed honored by your decision.

Just another 2 more votes to match Vexarian's current number, a further 2 more to meet Ryuugi and 1 more to actually be in the lead. :exclamation:

And that's making a lot of assumptions. This is going to be harder than I thought.

-chronodekar

Probably not as hard as you thought.

 

[Vexarian]

Son of a...