Nasuverse Fate/Gathering Night

[GenocideHeart]

Regarding the original proposal and MtG magic mechanics, please correct these assumptions if I'm wrong - magic can be taught and all magic users use mana - in which case, can the planeswalker teach humans (even mundanes) in the Nasu-verse to cast using MtG mechanics?

Technically, yes, but you must understand that the scope that Planeswalkers work in is enormously different. For instance, in one of the Wizard comics on the Ice Age, the Kjeldoran shaman Oriel Kjeldos got killed casting an Incinerate spell due to the spell being too hard to control for her.

The spell in question is one of the most basic direct damage spells at just 1R mana cost.

Most sparkmages (people who specialize in electricity as magic) can only conjure enough electricity to do 1 damage. If they try really hard they can call down lightning.

A Planeswalker can cast Lightning Bolt (3 damage) with just one mana and no effort whatsoever.

What I am getting at is, technically yes, Magic: the Gathering magic can be potentially taught to anyone, but you will still need enough willpower and discipline to not kill yourself using that spell, and chances are that anything above three mana will be a no-no. Planeswalkers of old were physical gods, and even the current day Planeswalkers are walking persons of mass destruction. What comes easy to them may be exceedingly hard to baseline humans, or even to people with some basics of magic using.

 

[Watashiwa]

Note that Planeswalking is separate from the ability to manipulate mana. There were several characters in the early novels who either were magic-less 'walkers or made reference to such.

I have to say that I'm a little put out that GH posted this idea. I've been thinking of a way to do this cross myself, though it's less a direct cross and more me saying "Haha, aren't artifacts awesome?" and proceeding to turn Shirou into an Urza-style artificer.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Note that Planeswalking is separate from the ability to manipulate mana. There were several characters in the early novels who either were magic-less 'walkers or made reference to such.

I have to say that I'm a little put out that GH posted this idea. I've been thinking of a way to do this cross myself, though it's less a direct cross and more me saying "Haha, aren't artifacts awesome?" and proceeding to turn Shirou into an Urza-style artificer.

True, but most Planeswalkers generally tend to pick up magic... or they don't survive very long while Planeswalking at all.

The notable exception was Dakkon Blackblade... but he was one of the most badass warriors in the land in addition to a blacksmith. He didn't need magic because he could kill most things dead barehanded, and once he recovered his Black Blade, he could go toe to toe with elder dragons and win.

As for your idea, hey, go on, do it.

Also, for a bonus, what if ORT is an Eldrazi of some kind?

 

[Inaba]

Hm . . . so while a planeswalker in Nasu-verse would still freak out the local magic users, the establishment of entire new schools of magic is probably secondary to the other implications of his or her presence.

 

[nick012000]

Note that Planeswalking is separate from the ability to manipulate mana.? There were several characters in the early novels who either were magic-less 'walkers or made reference to such.

I have to say that I'm a little put out that GH posted this idea.? I've been thinking of a way to do this cross myself, though it's less a direct cross and more me saying "Haha, aren't artifacts awesome?" and proceeding to turn Shirou into an Urza-style artificer.

True, but most Planeswalkers generally tend to pick up magic... or they don't survive very long while Planeswalking at all.

The notable exception was Dakkon Blackblade... but he was one of the most badass warriors in the land in addition to a blacksmith. He didn't need magic because he could kill most things dead barehanded, and once he recovered his Black Blade, he could go toe to toe with elder dragons and win.

As for your idea, hey, go on, do it.

That was back when Planeswalkers were physical gods rather than just powerful mages with the ability to travel between planes. You want to see a what a modern warrior-planeswalker looks like, look at Gideon Jura or Elspeth Tirel.

Also, for a bonus, what if ORT is an Eldrazi of some kind?

I doubt ORT is an Eldrazi. It's just a monster from another planet like the Color Out Of Space was, but much more powerful. Additionally, there were only the three big Eldrazi before they got trapped in Zendikar and created their broodspawn lineages.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Note that Planeswalking is separate from the ability to manipulate mana.á There were several characters in the early novels who either were magic-less 'walkers or made reference to such.

I have to say that I'm a little put out that GH posted this idea.á I've been thinking of a way to do this cross myself, though it's less a direct cross and more me saying "Haha, aren't artifacts awesome?" and proceeding to turn Shirou into an Urza-style artificer.

True, but most Planeswalkers generally tend to pick up magic... or they don't survive very long while Planeswalking at all.

The notable exception was Dakkon Blackblade... but he was one of the most badass warriors in the land in addition to a blacksmith. He didn't need magic because he could kill most things dead barehanded, and once he recovered his Black Blade, he could go toe to toe with elder dragons and win.

As for your idea, hey, go on, do it.

That was back when Planeswalkers were physical gods rather than just powerful mages with the ability to travel between planes. You want to see a what a modern warrior-planeswalker looks like, look at Gideon Jura or Elspeth Tirel.

Also, for a bonus, what if ORT is an Eldrazi of some kind?

I doubt ORT is an Eldrazi. It's just a monster from another planet like the Color Out Of Space was, but much more powerful. Additionally, there were only the three big Eldrazi before they got trapped in Zendikar and created their broodspawn lineages.

Gideon, Elspeth and Garruk are the only ones who actually do the war thing, and it comes with the territory given their colors. But the others?


Let me see, Venser was an artificer, Ajani is a shaman specializing in soul magic, Sarkhan turns smaller creatures into FUCKING DRAGONS, Tezzeret is a manipulative asshole but for all of that he fails horribly at hand to hand, Chandra kills it with fire before it even gets too close, Koth kills it with STONE, Kiora specializes in summoning ginormous creatures from the depths, Liliana is a necromancer, Jace specializes in making you forget you were even going to fight, Karn is a hardcore pacifist (which caused no end of trouble back in the day), Sorin is a vampire and as such he prefers vampiric charming shenanigans and living (?) the night life to fighting, plus he's a giant troll, Nissa thinks she's too good to fight and has her elves do it for her, and Nicol Bolas is a fucking dragon himself and thus does whatever the hell he wants.

Yeah, the hand to hand warrior types are still rare.

By the way? Those three big Eldrazi? They aren't the only ones, they are just the only ones that bothered trying to eat Zendikar. Gideon even states that he's sure there's more like Emrakul in the Blind Eternities, and hopes they will never show up again.

 

[Watashiwa]

I much preferred the "Planeswalkers as physical gods" explanation. The old MtG novels were far and away better than most of the novels set in Dominaria, The Brother's War being a notable exception. I've got a sizable collection of the pre-Dominaria books, my favorite of which is easily Arena. That's mostly what I'd be basing any story I wrote using MtG on... except that Mirrodin was WotC's gift to artifact users, so there'd be more than a few familiar faces(?) from that.

 

[GenocideHeart]

To be fair, Nicol Bolas implied that there's a way to restore the Spark to its former glory. But the price is heavy. He basically had to make Alara a hellhole just to restore his own...

That said, from a mere human's PoV, people like Elspeth are nearly divine. Few things get the point across like making your followers basically laugh in the face of death, which is what she can do.

 

[Wilder]

Man, may as well rename this MtG; lore discussion eh?

In all seriousness though it sounds like an awesome idea, although now I'm caught thinking up what colours each Nasu character fits into XD

 

[GenocideHeart]

Most Nasuverse characters are actually fairly obvious about which mana they are aligned with. Things like ORT would likely be colorless though.

There's some monstrously broken stuff in Magic, though, and that stuff would be best kept as far away from the Nasuverse as possible for the time being, at least until it's brought up to par. There really is no need for things like the avatar of Kaldra, Darksteel artifacts in general or Progenitus to be involved anytime soon. And the less said about Phyrexia the better. Phyrexia is never a good thing, ever.

 

[Kibbles]

And the less said about Phyrexia the better. Phyrexia is never a good thing, ever.

This is the Nasuverse we're talking about, you know. It's not a question of whether Phyrexia gets involved, but when will some idiot draw their attention. Considering the arrogance (and complete lack of common sense and empathy) some magus families have demonstrated, it's only a matter of time before someone drags Phyrexia into the game.

And then it's game over because, quite honestly, Earth doesn't have an Urza lying around to drive off the inevitable invasion.

 

[Watashiwa]

Most Nasuverse characters are actually fairly obvious about which mana they are aligned with. Things like ORT would likely be colorless though.

There's some monstrously broken stuff in Magic, though, and that stuff would be best kept as far away from the Nasuverse as possible for the time being, at least until it's brought up to par. There really is no need for things like the avatar of Kaldra, Darksteel artifacts in general or Progenitus to be involved anytime soon. And the less said about Phyrexia the better. Phyrexia is never a good thing, ever.

I find it utterly chilling that you've guessed three of the elements that factor heavily into my F/SN idea. :huh:

Kibbles post there made me laugh, since it almost manages to catch a thread in my story.

As for mana colors, here's a short list:

Shiro=white

Rin=red

Sakura=blue/black

Illya= ...Does she even use magic beyond "Get them Berserker"? Going to say green since it's all about stupidly powerful creatures/buffs

Kotomine=white/black

Zouken=blue/black

Bazette=green

Shinji=none =D

Servants are kinda obvious too:

Saber=white

Archer=red/white

Berserker=green

Lancer=red/green

Caster=blue/red

Rider=blue

(true)Assassin=black

Gilgamesh=all of them. Because are you brave enough to tell him that he can't?


Now, of course, since none of these characters are walkers and none of them can actually tap mana, these color designations are little more than useful insights into the nature of their spells and abilities. Still, useful.

 

[GenocideHeart]

Berserker would be red/green. He's pretty much Gruul guild to the core, and while Berserk was green, it was reprinted in red for Planar Chaos, plus the spell Blood Lust which makes someone forget about defense in favor of pure offensive power was also red.

That'd make Ilya, by extension, red/green, and she does also seem to follow her desires quite a bit, so she fits the red in personality.

Speaking of Gruul, Ilya would love Borborygmos. You can't really argue with a 4 stories tall cyclops that can tank more damage than a dragon and gets bigger and meaner whenever he whacks someone... and the fact he has trample (he's 4 stories tall, remember?) just adds to the pain.

For reference, the tiny guys standing on the ledge behind him are Gruul scrappers, who are themselves over 6 feet tall.

Oh and his weapon? Yeah, it's a tree. With a stone wrapped in its roots.

 

[shout27]

Personally, I picture Shirou as being primarily colorless and channeling different colors to summon artifacts. . . depending on his mindset in the story at least. In some ways it's easy to forget that he is technically insane, because he's been distorted by his experiences enough to have his very Origin altered.
Black/Red for Gae Bolg
White for Caliburn
Red/White for Excalibur
Green for the 9 lives blade
Black for Gram
Blue for Rulebreaker
etc.

Of course, I also believe that he's the closest human in the Nasuverse, to awakening a spark or whatever it is that grants a planeswalker their power.

 

[Vanigo]

This is the Nasuverse we're talking about, you know. It's not a question of whether Phyrexia gets involved, but when will some idiot draw their attention. Considering the arrogance (and complete lack of common sense and empathy) some magus families have demonstrated, it's only a matter of time before someone drags Phyrexia into the game.

And then it's game over because, quite honestly, Earth doesn't have an Urza lying around to drive off the inevitable invasion.

Would anyone but Zel be able to contact them? They might be crazy enough to try, but they're no planeswalkers. For that matter, would New Phyrexia be able to launch an interplanar invasion?

 

[GenocideHeart]

This is the Nasuverse we're talking about, you know. It's not a question of whether Phyrexia gets involved, but when will some idiot draw their attention. Considering the arrogance (and complete lack of common sense and empathy) some magus families have demonstrated, it's only a matter of time before someone drags Phyrexia into the game.

And then it's game over because, quite honestly, Earth doesn't have an Urza lying around to drive off the inevitable invasion.

Would anyone but Zel be able to contact them? They might be crazy enough to try, but they're no planeswalkers. For that matter, would New Phyrexia be able to launch an interplanar invasion?

They don't have to launch a full invasion, they just have to get some Phyrexian oil in the Nasuverse. That thing is horrifically corrupting, causing anything with metal to undergo phyresis and usually causing phthisis in organics (which is better than being compleated through phyresis, but only insofar as you just die rather than becoming a mindless drone who thinks Phyrexia is the best thing since sliced bread).

Oh, and Urabrask is capable of animating otherwise inanimate artifacts. -_- Yeah, just imagine all of the human world's war machines turning against their masters...

Also, I have no idea what effect Phyrexian oil would have on homunculi like the Einzbern's, but given how it corrupted Mirrodin lifeforms and homunculi are close enough to artifact creatures, it can't possibly be good news for them...

 

[Archanon]

Personally, I picture Shirou as being primarily colorless and channeling different colors to summon artifacts. . . depending on his mindset in the story at least. In some ways it's easy to forget that he is technically insane, because he's been distorted by his experiences enough to have his very Origin altered.
Black/Red for Gae Bolg
White for Caliburn
Red/White for Excalibur
Green for the 9 lives blade
Black for Gram
Blue for Rulebreaker
etc.

Of course, I also believe that he's the closest human in the Nasuverse, to awakening a spark or whatever it is that grants a planeswalker their power.

Excalibur's gotta be pure white. Crystallized hopes and dreams of humanity, there.

 

[shout27]

Personally, I picture Shirou as being primarily colorless and channeling different colors to summon artifacts. . . depending on his mindset in the story at least. In some ways it's easy to forget that he is technically insane, because he's been distorted by his experiences enough to have his very Origin altered.
Black/Red for Gae Bolg
White for Caliburn
Red/White for Excalibur
Green for the 9 lives blade
Black for Gram
Blue for Rulebreaker
etc.

Of course, I also believe that he's the closest human in the Nasuverse, to awakening a spark or whatever it is that grants a planeswalker their power.

Excalibur's gotta be pure white. Crystallized hopes and dreams of humanity, there.

Dammit, I wish I knew more about the Nasuverse and Magic background settings than I do, but I personally think that's arguable. To me, Excalibur is less than Caliburn (which would be pure white) and by it's very definition (as I understand it) was crafted from emotion. . . but it is a fey sword and by it's very nature designed to be wielded alongside it's sheath. Thus, I'd go with this:

Excalibur: White\Green\Red
Excalibur's Sheath: White\Blue\Green

In order of importance for the mana assigned to them. . .

 

[Inaba]

Excalibur's gotta be pure white. Crystallized hopes and dreams of humanity, there.

I gotta agree with this - Excalibur should be mono-white rather than a multi-color. Its predominant theme is hope and it has associations with order and the chivalric code through its wielder. Passion rather than emotion is Red's purview and I do not believe faeries in Nasu-verse are necessarily associated with Green in the same sense that most MtG faeries are. Furthermore, Excalibur's blast is very much in theme with mono-white. Wrath of God, anyone?

I also think Gae Bolg should have an element of Blue since Blue's the usual color associated with weird shenanigans like causality manipulation. I'm also inclined to think that Gae Bolg's other color should be Black because Gae Bolg has associations with curses and viciousness via its barbs.

Edited to take into account above post.

 

[Archanon]

Personally, I picture Shirou as being primarily colorless and channeling different colors to summon artifacts. . . depending on his mindset in the story at least. In some ways it's easy to forget that he is technically insane, because he's been distorted by his experiences enough to have his very Origin altered.
Black/Red for Gae Bolg
White for Caliburn
Red/White for Excalibur
Green for the 9 lives blade
Black for Gram
Blue for Rulebreaker
etc.

Of course, I also believe that he's the closest human in the Nasuverse, to awakening a spark or whatever it is that grants a planeswalker their power.

Excalibur's gotta be pure white. Crystallized hopes and dreams of humanity, there.

Dammit, I wish I knew more about the Nasuverse and Magic background settings than I do, but I personally think that's arguable. To me, Excalibur is less than Caliburn (which would be pure white) and by it's very definition (as I understand it) was crafted from emotion. . . but it is a fey sword and by it's very nature designed to be wielded alongside it's sheath. Thus, I'd go with this:

Excalibur: White\Green\Red
Excalibur's Sheath: White\Blue\Green

In order of importance for the mana assigned to them. . .

I'll give you White/Blue for Avalon... and even mono-blue is arguable, but neither of them have any green association. At all. And I still say Excalibur is mono-white. It's the crystallized hopes and dreams of humanity, if fires a freaking laser blast, and it's associated with King Arthur, who has incredible associations with knights, honor, chivalry, and duty, all things which are very White.

 

[Inaba]

I can see Green instead of White for Avalon's healing capabilities, though I suppose it depends on how those capabilities are supposed to work. If it uses mana to outright heal the wound in a clearly unnatural manner, it's White but if it uses mana to accelerate the body's natural processes, it's more Green.

 

[shout27]

Personally, I picture Shirou as being primarily colorless and channeling different colors to summon artifacts. . . depending on his mindset in the story at least. In some ways it's easy to forget that he is technically insane, because he's been distorted by his experiences enough to have his very Origin altered.
Black/Red for Gae Bolg
White for Caliburn
Red/White for Excalibur
Green for the 9 lives blade
Black for Gram
Blue for Rulebreaker
etc.

Of course, I also believe that he's the closest human in the Nasuverse, to awakening a spark or whatever it is that grants a planeswalker their power.

Excalibur's gotta be pure white. Crystallized hopes and dreams of humanity, there.

Dammit, I wish I knew more about the Nasuverse and Magic background settings than I do, but I personally think that's arguable. To me, Excalibur is less than Caliburn (which would be pure white) and by it's very definition (as I understand it) was crafted from emotion. . . but it is a fey sword and by it's very nature designed to be wielded alongside it's sheath. Thus, I'd go with this:

Excalibur: White\Green\Red
Excalibur's Sheath: White\Blue\Green

In order of importance for the mana assigned to them. . .

I'll give you White/Blue for Avalon... and even mono-blue is arguable, but neither of them have any green association. At all. And I still say Excalibur is mono-white. It's the crystallized hopes and dreams of humanity, if fires a freaking laser blast, and it's associated with King Arthur, who has incredible associations with knights, honor, chivalry, and duty, all things which are very White.

Well, I have two major reasons as to why I'm unwilling to just say that Excalibur is mono-white. . .

First, Excalibur is not Caliburn, The sword of promised victory, the sword in the stone. If any weapon qualifies as pure white, it's that one IMO. As it had requirements of purity to work properly, and broke when it was mishandled. I have not seen anything like this with Excalibur, and believe that this is the primary reason Archer didn't simply call Caliburn into being and break it to kill berserker. . . he simply didn't meet the requirements to make it work properly.

Second, is the name of the technique(s) used with Excalibur, something about "Strike of the Wind King" or some such. Unfortunately, it has been my experience with Japanese games that when they include an element into the name of an attack in a rpg, then it means that most likely the weapon itself is the source of that element, especially since Saber doesn't strike me as a 'Wind-type' technique user with the stats I have seen.

Now, this is not to say that I don't think Excalibur is a Holy Sword, I just see it as being like those 'ravnica?' cards that allowed a person to expend one of two colors to use it. . . hell, it might might require a colorless, two white and one of either green or red to use it where Caliburn requires 4 white.

 

[Archanon]

Dude, if you don't have the background with Type-Moon stuff, why are you trying to declare things about it?


Invisible Air/Strike Air is a separate Noble Phantasm from Excalibur; it is used to shield the very recognizable sword from view so that people don't recognize Saber as Arthur right away (and also because, well, invisible sword makes it harder to block.) It has nothing to do with Excalibur itself. It can be used as an attack (Strike Air), but it definitely doesn't originate from the sword.

Furthermore, your conceptions about Caliburn are... weird. We know very little about how it works in Type-Moon canon, but Excalibur is specifically the greater holy sword.


Also, in the Nasuverse Excalibur is in fact the Sword of Promised Victory.

 

[shout27]

. . . And this is why I try not to get dragged into conversations when I only have secondhand info about the stuff in question. I feel like a dumbass. Anyways, I was talking about the strike she was using against assassin in the anime for the wind king thing, not the invisible sword technique.

 

[Archanon]

It's the same thing. She uses it to make the sword invisible, but she can release it as a strike and reform it. Still nothing to do with Excalibur, though.


Excalibur is much more flashy.