Nasuverse [FSN] Centralized Random Idea Thread

[Ryuugi]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Well, with Unlimited Blade Works, he can make it a place.á

Wha...?

Reality Marbles impose their own reality. Simply put, if he activates Unlimited Blade Works, he'll be able to impose things like the three dimensions of space and one of time upon Akasha, which is outside of time and space and has neither. Of course, it'll last forever and an infinitismal instant, and cover all of Akasha and none of it, because of how Akasha is outside of time and space and Unlimited Blade Works isn't.

I have no idea where you got that, but it's petty much completely incorrect. Reality Marbles impose one (and only one) law on the surrounding rea, even if that Law goes aginst natural laws. UBW would just create infinite materials for swords. Nothing else.

Absolutely none of which matters, since A) Akasha is not a place upon which order could be imposed, B) Akasha exists outside time, space, and existanc in general, and C) it cannot be reached, since it's not an actual place, and has nothing to do with space, time, or location.

I refer you to the Holy Grail, which punches a hole in reality to open a hole into Akasha.

Also, I thought Reality Marbles imposed all the laws of the person's soul upon their surroundings, even if those laws violated the laws of nature. So, for instance, Unlimited Blade Works, in addition to creating unlimited material for tracing weapons, also makes your surroundings into a desert filled with swords and with gears hanging in the red sky, with all that that implies.

Which only allows for the granting of a wish, and not access to Akasha. Also, it only opens a gate. And it doesn't even work right.

No, those things are basically just special effects. Except the swords, but that's because the swords are the point of the RM. But even the swords are only useable (aparently) by Shirou. UBW doesn't change temperature, time, distance, or anything else. It just does this:

Unlike Marble Phantasm, it isn't possible to make any transformation you want: its only purpose is to do the one thing that defines the practitioner. On the other hand, that thing can be something unnatural.

 

[Shaderic]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

I think you're misinterpreting the explanation. It's metaphorical hole. Sorta.

Akasha is more like... Akasha is weird, and what you're proposing is both impossible and foolish. I'll leave it at that.


If Archer could do that, I could through my computer screen and punch you. That's the sort of logic you seem to be implying.

EDIT: Ryuugi beat me, and used better logic.

 

[nick012000]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Well, with Unlimited Blade Works, he can make it a place.á

Wha...?

Reality Marbles impose their own reality. Simply put, if he activates Unlimited Blade Works, he'll be able to impose things like the three dimensions of space and one of time upon Akasha, which is outside of time and space and has neither. Of course, it'll last forever and an infinitismal instant, and cover all of Akasha and none of it, because of how Akasha is outside of time and space and Unlimited Blade Works isn't.

I have no idea where you got that, but it's petty much completely incorrect. Reality Marbles impose one (and only one) law on the surrounding rea, even if that Law goes aginst natural laws. UBW would just create infinite materials for swords. Nothing else.

Absolutely none of which matters, since A) Akasha is not a place upon which order could be imposed, B) Akasha exists outside time, space, and existanc in general, and C) it cannot be reached, since it's not an actual place, and has nothing to do with space, time, or location.

I refer you to the Holy Grail, which punches a hole in reality to open a hole into Akasha.

Also, I thought Reality Marbles imposed all the laws of the person's soul upon their surroundings, even if those laws violated the laws of nature. So, for instance, Unlimited Blade Works, in addition to creating unlimited material for tracing weapons, also makes your surroundings into a desert filled with swords and with gears hanging in the red sky, with all that that implies.

Which only allows for the granting of a wish, and not access to Akasha. Also, it only opens a gate. And it doesn't even work right.

No, those things are basically just special effects. Except the swords, but that's because the swords are the point of the RM. But even the swords are only useable (aparently) by Shirou. UBW doesn't change temperature, time, distance, or anything else. It just does this:

Unlike Marble Phantasm, it isn't possible to make any transformation you want: its only purpose is to do the one thing that defines the practitioner. On the other hand, that thing can be something unnatural.

Yes, and it does that by imposing the user's inner world upon their surroundings. Their inner world is exactly that: a world. If Archer were to get in a rocket and fly off into space, he would probably be able to create an entire planet with Unlimited Blade Works, because Gaia wouldn't be crushing him and limiting the distance he can project it out from him.

Of course, if he did, he'd probably get OM NOM NOMed by the other TYPEs shortly afterwards, but that wouldn't stop him from creating a brand new planet.

 

[Ryuugi]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Well, with Unlimited Blade Works, he can make it a place.á

Wha...?

Reality Marbles impose their own reality. Simply put, if he activates Unlimited Blade Works, he'll be able to impose things like the three dimensions of space and one of time upon Akasha, which is outside of time and space and has neither. Of course, it'll last forever and an infinitismal instant, and cover all of Akasha and none of it, because of how Akasha is outside of time and space and Unlimited Blade Works isn't.

I have no idea where you got that, but it's petty much completely incorrect. Reality Marbles impose one (and only one) law on the surrounding rea, even if that Law goes aginst natural laws. UBW would just create infinite materials for swords. Nothing else.

Absolutely none of which matters, since A) Akasha is not a place upon which order could be imposed, B) Akasha exists outside time, space, and existanc in general, and C) it cannot be reached, since it's not an actual place, and has nothing to do with space, time, or location.

I refer you to the Holy Grail, which punches a hole in reality to open a hole into Akasha.

Also, I thought Reality Marbles imposed all the laws of the person's soul upon their surroundings, even if those laws violated the laws of nature. So, for instance, Unlimited Blade Works, in addition to creating unlimited material for tracing weapons, also makes your surroundings into a desert filled with swords and with gears hanging in the red sky, with all that that implies.

Which only allows for the granting of a wish, and not access to Akasha. Also, it only opens a gate. And it doesn't even work right.

No, those things are basically just special effects. Except the swords, but that's because the swords are the point of the RM. But even the swords are only useable (aparently) by Shirou. UBW doesn't change temperature, time, distance, or anything else. It just does this:

Unlike Marble Phantasm, it isn't possible to make any transformation you want: its only purpose is to do the one thing that defines the practitioner. On the other hand, that thing can be something unnatural.

Yes, and it does that by imposing the user's inner world upon their surroundings. Their inner world is exactly that: a world. If Archer were to get in a rocket and fly off into space, he would probably be able to create an entire planet with Unlimited Blade Works, because Gaia wouldn't be crushing him and limiting the distance he can project it out from him.

Of course, if he did, he'd probably get OM NOM NOMed by the other TYPEs shortly afterwards, but that wouldn't stop him from creating a brand new planet.

Wha...? here are you getting this from?

First of all, no. Just no. Archer could not do that, because it is not simply Gaia that does that to RM's but the World (as in Creation, or, all of existance). Second of all, I'll quote it again:

Unlike Marble Phantasm, it isn't possible to make any transformation you want: its only purpose is to do the one thing that defines the practitioner. On the other hand, that thing can be something unnatural.

The only thing UBW does is create an area in which all the materials needed to make any sword on (and from) Earth exist, as well as recreate those swords. It does nothing else.

 

[Shaderic]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

No. UBW does not work like that.

All it does, is force the laws of physics to bend over and take it, and overlay the surroundings with his swords. Everything else is fluff and materials. Those big-ass gears? Probably swords Archer has traced, or the materials for one. Hence why Shirou doesn't have them in his UBW.

The sand and dirt? Materials.

All UBW in SPACE would do is conjure a huge amount of swords in space. Admittedly, enough to probably make a planet, but they wouldn't last that long. When UBW fades out, do all the swords stick around? No. Even if this were in space, they'd fade out eventualy.

EDIT:Ryuugi beats me again.

 

[Ryuugi]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

All UBW in SPACE would do is conjure a huge amount of swords in space. Admittedly, enough to probably make a planet, but they wouldn't last that long. When UBW fades out, do all the swords stick around? No. Even if this were in space, they'd fade out eventualy.

EDIT:Ryuugi beats me again.

Nowhere near that many. Just a single copy of every blade Archer ever saw. Which would vanish as soon as the World crushed UBW.

Edit: Found it.

From fuyuki:

The World
ÉóèE - Sekai

A system that operates under Akasha.

...

A system that works by the preservation of Order (rules); Order itself is its lifespan. Those things that disrupt Order such as a paradoxes and what not will be crushed by it.

 

[RJL333]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

I'm new to FSN but I have a question, it has been said that Shirou can only trace swords that use material from earth but why is that? I get that he can't trace Gil's sword because it godly/EX or something, but could he trace a sword that was made from materials from mars or the moon? And if he can't why not?

 

[Ryuugi]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

I'm new to FSN but I have a question, it has been said that Shirou can only trace swords that use material from earth but why is that? I get that he can't trace Gil's sword because it godly/EX or something, but could he trace a sword that was made from materials from mars or the moon? And if he can't why not?

No, he couldn't. For the same reason the Shiki's could look at Ort all day long, as hard as they could, and not see lines (or dots).

 

[trevelyan1983]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

One of the more easily missed rules of Shirou's Unlimited Blade Works, is that it can only recreate weapons using materials from Gaia. Whatever Ea is made of, it doesn't qualify. By the same token, weapons from Mars, the moon or Jupiter would also not meet that standard.

 

[nick012000]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

One of the more easily missed rules of Shirou's Unlimited Blade Works, is that it can only recreate weapons using materials from Gaia.á Whatever Ea is made of, it doesn't qualify.á By the same token, weapons from Mars, the moon or Jupiter would also not meet that standard.

I'll point out, though, that Kansho and Bakuya were forged from a meteorite. I wouldn't be surprised if a good chunk of their power (and their second form) was the remnants of the powers of the (very weak) TYPE of said asteroid, and they've almost certainly got a good amount of Grain in them; if Shirou were to get in a fight with a Dead Apostle, True Ancestor, or TYPE, Kanshou and Bakuya are probably the best weapons for the job. If you went to Mars, mined the ores, then shipped them back to Earth to be forged, Shirou would be able to trace the resulting weapon.

 

[trevelyan1983]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Will you stop making stuff up and pretending that it's canonical fact, for five fucking minutes?

I mean, how the hell do Asteroids have TYPES? Why would basic, average NP's be a better choice than destiny-interference or holy-elemental wave-motion weapons?

 

[nick012000]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Will you stop making stuff up and pretending that it's canonical fact, for five fucking minutes??

I mean, how the hell do Asteroids have TYPES?? Why would basic, average NP's be a better choice than destiny-interference or holy-elemental wave-motion weapons?

Asteroids probably do have TYPEs. We know that the Moon has a TYPE, so obviously it's not just planets that have them. Asteroids are celestial bodies, so they might well have TYPEs. At the very least, they might well have fragments of the dead one that got torn up by Jupiter's gravity and made into the Main Belt.

As for why it'd be better against them, well, it has Grain in it, on top of the Noble Phantasm power boost. Just look at how much damage the Ether Liners did against the TYPEs with their Grain-based weapons. It might have less Grain in it, but it'd still probably be capable of hurting them. The others might not be capable of properly wounding them.

Basically, when you've got a weapon made from the remnants of a world, why would you use anything else to kill worlds? It's probably going to be the most effective, even if it doesn't have any reality hax powers. Perhaps because it doesn't have any reality hax powers; my understanding is that for top-end combat, how old you are matters the same way raw power matters in Bleach. The "lesser" (or, perhaps, "greater") Noble Phantasms might well just bounce off, while Kanshou and Bakuya might at least nick them.

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Will you stop making stuff up and pretending that it's canonical fact, for five fucking minutes?á

I mean, how the hell do Asteroids have TYPES?á Why would basic, average NP's be a better choice than destiny-interference or holy-elemental wave-motion weapons?

Asteroids probably do have TYPEs. We know that the Moon has a TYPE, so obviously it's not just planets that have them. Asteroids are celestial bodies, so they might well have TYPEs. At the very least, they might well have fragments of the dead one that got torn up by Jupiter's gravity and made into the Main Belt.

Actully the Moon was a world at some point before it's Type went got hungry and ate everyone living on it.

 

[nick012000]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Will you stop making stuff up and pretending that it's canonical fact, for five fucking minutes?á

I mean, how the hell do Asteroids have TYPES?á Why would basic, average NP's be a better choice than destiny-interference or holy-elemental wave-motion weapons?

Asteroids probably do have TYPEs. We know that the Moon has a TYPE, so obviously it's not just planets that have them. Asteroids are celestial bodies, so they might well have TYPEs. At the very least, they might well have fragments of the dead one that got torn up by Jupiter's gravity and made into the Main Belt.

Actully the Moon was a world at some point before it's Type went got hungry and ate everyone living on it.

:blink:

Now I'm getting funny ideas about a Nasuverse/Sailor Moon crossover.

 

[Shiakou]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Basically, when you've got a weapon made from the remnants of a world, why would you use anything else to kill worlds?

For the same reason swords/guns made from human flesh would not be the most effective weapons against humans.

Generally speaking, you don't fight something efficiently by reverse engineering it; the most that would do is to level the playing field. A tank might be good against another tank, but a combat helicopter is more effective against both. A combat helicopter might be good against another combat helicopter, but a bunch of guys with Stinger missiles on the ground would be better. And two armies of Stinger-armed infantry might be able to bludgeon each other to death, but neither would last against a tank army (Stingers are ineffective against heavy armor).

Take this principle to the Nasuverse. Fighting a vampire with another vampire of the same level would usually result in a stalemate, but fighting a vampire with an anti-vampire weapon is more likely to give you the victory. Fighting a demigod Servant with another demigod Servant is fine, but fighting a demigod Servant with anti-divinity armaments is better. Fighting Gate of Babylon with Unlimited Blade Works gives you a fighting chance, but fighting Gate of Babylon with Angrya Manyu. . . well, let's just say Gilgamesh is screwed.

 

[RJL333]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

One of the more easily missed rules of Shirou's Unlimited Blade Works, is that it can only recreate weapons using materials from Gaia.? Whatever Ea is made of, it doesn't qualify.? By the same token, weapons from Mars, the moon or Jupiter would also not meet that standard.

But is there a reason that it has to be from Gaia? For Archer it makes sense because of his contact, but in UBW Shirou did not make a contact with Gaia (didn't he just sex Rin up for the power to use it). Ea not being traceable makes sense, but if you took material from the moon and made a sword from it why would he not be able to trace it. If the materials are natural and have no divine properties shouldn't he be able to trace it? If you took one rock from the moon and took several other rocks from earth and put them in a pile and told Shirou to trace them, could he? Could any magus do that? I just am trying to understand why he couldn't do it if they are perfectly normal and not divine/break law of reality. The only reason I could think of is that it has something to do with Gaia letting him trace them while the other types won't let him, which sounds stupid and absurd.

 

[Shiakou]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

One of the more easily missed rules of Shirou's Unlimited Blade Works, is that it can only recreate weapons using materials from Gaia.á Whatever Ea is made of, it doesn't qualify.á By the same token, weapons from Mars, the moon or Jupiter would also not meet that standard.

But is there a reason that it has to be from Gaia? For Archer it makes sense because of his contact, but in UBW Shirou did not make a contact with Gaia (didn't he just sex Rin up for the power to use it). Ea not being traceable makes sense, but if you took material from the moon and made a sword from it why would he not be able to trace it. If the materials are natural and have no divine properties shouldn't he be able to trace it? If you took one rock from the moon and took several other rocks from earth and put them in a pile and told Shirou to trace them, could he? Could any magus do that? I just am trying to understand why he couldn't do it if they are perfectly normal and not divine/break law of reality. The only reason I could think of is that it has something to do with Gaia letting him trace them while the other types won't let him, which sounds stupid and absurd.

My guess is that it has something to do with humans being Gaia's creations. If Shirou and Shiki had been born on Mercury instead, their abilities should work on Mercury-based beings and materials but not on Earth's.

 

[RJL333]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

One of the more easily missed rules of Shirou's Unlimited Blade Works, is that it can only recreate weapons using materials from Gaia.á Whatever Ea is made of, it doesn't qualify.á By the same token, weapons from Mars, the moon or Jupiter would also not meet that standard.

But is there a reason that it has to be from Gaia? For Archer it makes sense because of his contact, but in UBW Shirou did not make a contact with Gaia (didn't he just sex Rin up for the power to use it). Ea not being traceable makes sense, but if you took material from the moon and made a sword from it why would he not be able to trace it. If the materials are natural and have no divine properties shouldn't he be able to trace it? If you took one rock from the moon and took several other rocks from earth and put them in a pile and told Shirou to trace them, could he? Could any magus do that? I just am trying to understand why he couldn't do it if they are perfectly normal and not divine/break law of reality. The only reason I could think of is that it has something to do with Gaia letting him trace them while the other types won't let him, which sounds stupid and absurd.

My guess is that it has something to do with humans being Gaia's creations. If Shirou and Shiki had been born on Mercury instead, their abilities should work on Mercury-based beings and materials but not on Earth's.

I didn't know that humans were created by the Gaia, I actually never thought about how they came to in the Naruverse. This make logical sense to me and quells my curiosity.

 

[Avider]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

What's most effective against Grain-infused beings is:

The Black Barrel. An anti-Grain weapon.

Grain-based weaponry is no more effective against Grain-infused beings than metal is against metal. That is, there is no, "It's super-effective!" bonus to them at all. Just have enough force applied and it'll succeed, not enough and it won't.

Fighting Gate of Babylon with Unlimited Blade Works gives you a fighting chance, but fighting Gate of Babylon with Angrya Manyu. . . well, let's just say Gilgamesh is screwed.

Bad example. Avenger is screwed. Also, GoB versus UBW is more, King of Carelessness versus Mostly Harmless. GoB versus Shadow is also, King of Carelessness versus WTFHXREGEN!

The weakness is the carelessness, not GoB itself. That thing is also, HAX!

 

[zeebee1]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Avenger has a great anti-Gilgamesh counter. But doesn't he have to survive for it to work?

 

[Avider]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

You mean Verg Avesta?

That's definitely, not a great counter.

All it does is reflects the pain inflicted on him by his wounds. But, he needs to be conscious to use it, and since it's just pain and not damage, it's really really really pointless.

In fact, all it'll do is provoke Gilgamesh.

 

[Ryuugi]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Avenger has a great anti-Gilgamesh counter. But doesn't he have to survive for it to work?

Technically speaking, yes, he does have a counter. But, as you said, he has to survive the attack in question to use it. Furthermore, it doesn't actually reflect the damage, it simply makes the target feel the same amount of pain a Avenger, they don't take any damage.

Edit: Ninja'd. The point is that (in a situation that doesn't include the Grail), Avenger is pretty weak. His Master has been confirmed to be a better fighter.

Edit 2: Also, he can only use it once on a given target.

 

[Muramasa]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

Random Idea:


Shirou is inserted into Soul Calibur verse. Sophita then quickly mistakes him as the reincarnated god Haphaestus.

 

[Shiakou]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

What's most effective against Grain-infused beings is:

The Black Barrel.á An anti-Grain weapon.

Grain-based weaponry is no more effective against Grain-infused beings than metal is against metal.á That is, there is no, "It's super-effective!" bonus to them at all.á Just have enough force applied and it'll succeed, not enough and it won't.

Fighting Gate of Babylon with Unlimited Blade Works gives you a fighting chance, but fighting Gate of Babylon with Angrya Manyu. . . well, let's just say Gilgamesh is screwed.

Bad example. Avenger is screwed. Also, GoB versus UBW is more, King of Carelessness versus Mostly Harmless. GoB versus Shadow is also, King of Carelessness versus WTFHXREGEN!

The weakness is the carelessness, not GoB itself. That thing is also, HAX!

I was actually talking about Shadow, not Avenger, since Avenger is technically

not Angrya Manyu but rather just someone framed for it while Shadow can be argued to be condensed evil itself.

And yeah, WTFHAXREGEN combined with general resistance to physical damage makes a sword spamming spell kinda useless.

 

[Ryuugi]

Centralized Random Idea Thread

What's most effective against Grain-infused beings is:

The Black Barrel.á An anti-Grain weapon.

Grain-based weaponry is no more effective against Grain-infused beings than metal is against metal.á That is, there is no, "It's super-effective!" bonus to them at all.á Just have enough force applied and it'll succeed, not enough and it won't.

Fighting Gate of Babylon with Unlimited Blade Works gives you a fighting chance, but fighting Gate of Babylon with Angrya Manyu. . . well, let's just say Gilgamesh is screwed.

Bad example. Avenger is screwed. Also, GoB versus UBW is more, King of Carelessness versus Mostly Harmless. GoB versus Shadow is also, King of Carelessness versus WTFHXREGEN!

The weakness is the carelessness, not GoB itself. That thing is also, HAX!

I was actually talking about Shadow, not Avenger, since Avenger is technically

not Angrya Manyu but rather just someone framed for it while Shadow can be argued to be condensed evil itself.

And yeah, WTFHAXREGEN combined with general resistance to physical damage makes a sword spamming spell kinda useless.

Pretty much. Gil would have been better of with Ea (which probably would have taken care of the problem), but he had no way of knowing that (despite turning it into a pincushion) the Shadow would get back up.