Naruto Kakashi's special training

bzzt3421 said:
Um. Correction. He didn't KNOW Neji had the Kaiten. Neji figured it out in the 1 month hiatus, when Naruto was too busy learning summoning. Even Hiashi was surprised Neji figured the Kaiten out.

So Naruto charging head on didn't take account of Kaiten simply because it was a new development.
GH, I think he was refering to the bit at the end of the fight, the part after Neji had destroyed his Kage Bushins with the Kaiten, and not the beginning of the fight.

I could be wrong though.
Good point, but what ELSE could Naruto have done? Short of summoning, there was nothing else he could have done except attack and confide in Kyuubi's chakra fixing the damage long enough for him to wreck Neji first. Naruto did what he could, and as soon as he saw an opening, he took it.

Adaptability, if you ask me, is a ninja's most precious skill, and Naruto showed that he could adapt to adverse conditions and win cleanly. If that's not Chuunin-worthy, I don't know WHAT is.
 

puckreathof

Well-Known Member
You're right, bzzt, and thanks for the backup. Yes, I wasn't referring to it early when he didn't go head on, he used a trick to make Neji think he had taken Naruto out, but at the end of the fight. and admittedly, yeah, Naruto didn't have that many options, but he's ALWAYS been boned by lack of distance techniques. Always.

So while I may agree with you that Naruto didn't have too many other options, at the same time, the judges would disagree against a full on charge at the end, I imagine. They're probably thinking 'why doesn't he use some sort of distance technique?' to which the answer is he's been neglected all this time and so has none to work with. Sad, really.

But seriously, the kind of thing naruto did v Gaara in an effort to save Sakura which also saved the village, that's the kind of heroism that gets a medal, and what's he get? Muffin.
 

BlackSun

Well-Known Member
I wonder how the rookie nine would have reacted to Naruto making chuunin along with Shikamaru, and before Sasuke.
 
puckreathof said:
You're right, bzzt, and thanks for the backup. Yes, I wasn't referring to it early when he didn't go head on, he used a trick to make Neji think he had taken Naruto out, but at the end of the fight. and admittedly, yeah, Naruto didn't have that many options, but he's ALWAYS been boned by lack of distance techniques. Always.

So while I may agree with you that Naruto didn't have too many other options, at the same time, the judges would disagree against a full on charge at the end, I imagine. They're probably thinking 'why doesn't he use some sort of distance technique?' to which the answer is he's been neglected all this time and so has none to work with. Sad, really.

But seriously, the kind of thing naruto did v Gaara in an effort to save Sakura which also saved the village, that's the kind of heroism that gets a medal, and what's he get? Muffin.
Even IF he used a distance technique, Neji would've just Kaiten'ed it back to him. If Neji can stop multiple attacks from multiple directions from Tenten, who's supposedly 100% accurate, what makes you think anything short of a Jounin-level jutsu would work?

And if the judges are so incompetent they don't even know the ultimate defense of one of the strongest clans in THEIR village, then they need to be fired and put to work in the fields growing cucumbers.

Either way, Naruto deserved Chuunin level.
 

puckreathof

Well-Known Member
It could/would have become a battle of stamina. Neji's Kaiten vs how many times Naruto can use the distance technique. Also, he could've tried a distance technique to work out for some kind of opening. I'm just saying, the judges could have thought the boy should have gone about the battle in another method. It's a coulda/woulda/shoulda sort of argument.

I'm not saying that he didn't deserve the rank, don't get me wrong. I'm just playing a bit of the DA here. Most likely, it's judge/etc. prejudice. If we break the fourth dimension, it could be that the mangaka's an idiot. That's it.
 

FH_Meta

Well-Known Member
Err... are you meaning the fourth wall or are you really taking about breaking time?

Cause either would make a somewhat hilarious jutsu. Especially if used to kill off the Bakamoto in the fic (and make an Excel reference at the same time).
 

puckreathof

Well-Known Member
My bad. Yeah, the fourth wall. I was talking about spell creation with someone else at the time, so I'm hoping that's how dimension came up. either that, or i Just need to pay more attention to what I type.
 

Moshulel

Well-Known Member
Either way, Naruto deserved Chuunin level.
Agreed. As for the ones playing around with the fourth wall... just read F1's fic. It's all explained in there.
 

leeyiankun

Well-Known Member
GenocideHeart said:
Adaptability, if you ask me, is a ninja's most precious skill, and Naruto showed that he could adapt to adverse conditions and win cleanly. If that's not Chuunin-worthy, I don't know WHAT is.
Being a handsome Gay-Uchiha bastard(aka Assuke), or just have a zillion IQ to show-off(like Shikamaru).

Heck. IMO, Shikamaru deserve Chunin promotion LESS than Naruto.
Laziness is NOT a trait that should be awarded, and by promoting Shikamaru, The Leaf just says OK to it.

And I'm still not convinced that Shikamaru's a genius. His plans aren't convincing me non, since it's easy to add Author plot power to a char and says he's got this and that.
Nope, action speaks louder than words. And from what I've seen, Naruto's the genius, Not Lazi-maru.

Since anyone who's joined an occupation that has a very high fatality rate, and just spend his days watchin' clouds, isn't really a genius, is he?

Heck, by that Logic.
Lee and Neji, is the best benchmark that an average genin should be.
Train, Train, Train, and if you want to survive, Train.

The Uchiha incident should have pounded this ideal into everyone's head by now.
No amount of Ass-kicking bloodline, is going to save you from a mad man with Author power.

And Oro-bastard + Assuke has it in spades.
 

Pirazy

Well-Known Member
Personally I'm of the opinion that Shino should be the one promoted to chuunin, Shikamaru is a lazy slacker who doesn't move a finger unless it's a matter of life and death and has no sense of responsibility, and as for encourageing unprofessional behaviour, I don't see anyone doing anything about that bum Kakashi..

As for Naruto, he's got power, and an unprecedented talent for improvising, too bad that's all he's got. A chuunin leads other ninjas on missions, do any of you seriously think he could lead 3 other normal ninjas on a dangerous mission where they could encounter hostile ninjas and return with his whole team alive? He'd probably dive headfirst into battle, and even if he tried stealth he's not nearly good enough in that area for it to succeed. The kid probably thinks it's a cowards tactic.

Sure, Naruto would probably survive an attack on a larger enemy force because he's got the devil's luck, abnormal healing and stamina, too bad those ninjas whose lives he's responsible for aren't as indestructible as him, he'd probably get them killed because he picked a fight while ignoring the consequences. And if any of his teammates spoke up about his inadequate plans or lack thereof he'd probably throw a fit, call them a bastard and then go ahead with it anyway because he's the team-leader and "he's gonna be Hokage". He handles constructive critisism about as well as the average ff.net Naruto-writer.

You need both power and brains to become chuunin, Shino was the only genin who had both, Sasuke and Neji also have those traits but are hindered by their unflexible personalities, Sasuke thinks only of himself and if he encounters someone stronger than him he abandons reason to "test his strength", Neji thinks he's a goddamn oracle who can predict the future and judges books by their cover, both of these when encountered with something that doesn't fit their view of the world breaks like fine china while Naruto having some initial difficulty adapts to the new situation, mostly because of already mentioned advantages and his opponents habit of underestimating him, hard to believe people with such shallow preconceptions can advance beyond genin.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention that this was pre-TS Naruto I was talking about, I have yet seen enough of the post-TS Naruto to form a final opinion yet. At a glance he looks to be exactly the same, with the exception of more Kyuubi-power. But one must take in consideration that all confrontations so far has been against such antagonists as Akatsuki, where Gaara was being slowly killed while Naruto tried to find them, and against Orochimaru, where Sasuke was walking down the same path as his brother without even appear to be caring. One can expect Naruto to not be able to act rationally under such circumstances, all of the "genius" ninja like Sasuke, Neji, Shikamaru and even Sandaime and Orochimaru have acted similarly when confronted with a certain scenario, there are no "perfect", emotionless shinobi, just different triggers for the same reaction, some just have more obvious and easier to exploit.
 

Matdeception

Well-Known Member
I agree with Shino to an extent, too bad he didn't even get to fight in front of the judges.

As for Naruto, He does lack that bit of maturity like you listed above - But not all the judges would be aware of that. They have to judge ninja's pretty much out of the blue (Tho the Hokage would def. know, too bad he died in this instance) and Naruto demonstrated he had what it took in that particular instance to be Chuuin - Never mind the truth that he's a hot headed example of Gai type youth at times.l

Anyway, dems my thoughts.
 
Pirazy said:
As for Naruto, he's got power, and an unprecedented talent for improvising, too bad that's all he's got. A chuunin leads other ninjas on missions, do any of you seriously think he could lead 3 other normal ninjas on a dangerous mission where they could encounter hostile ninjas and return with his whole team alive? He'd probably dive headfirst into battle, and even if he tried stealth he's not nearly good enough in that area for it to succeed. The kid probably thinks it's a cowards tactic.
Allow me to point in either Jiraiya or any Akimichi's general direction. How do you think they made Jounin? Jiraiya is almost as bad as Naruto at being discreet, and the very NATURE of an Akimichi's fighting style pretty much cans any chance of stealth they may have - they are pure direct fighters with little inventive.

Yet, Chouji's dad was a Jounin, last I checked, which means he must have made Chuunin at some point, and Chouji also made Chuunin, we know that for a fact in those... bad doujinshi that replaced Naruto's manga.

Simply put, you are mistakenly assuming that stealth and cunning matter in Naruto. THEY DO NOT. Look at how some ninja dress, despite their rank. You think Kurenai can be discreet, or even fight effectively, when she's dressed in a way that pretty much screams 'slut' and looks like it impedes movement a fair bit should the mummy-bandaging unwrap?

Also, Naruto is actually a boon to most teams. He can just charge in and cause total chaos, while the rest of the team can slip by undetected.

And finally, unless I remember wrong, Chuunin are usually tasked with leading low risk missions. For serious ones, team leaders are always Jounin.

The only reason why Shikamaru was appointed leader in the chase was because Tsunade decided to be a dumbass, ignore the fact Oro was drooling over Sasuke (it's not like she saw the Curse Seal, right? After all, she didn't treat Sasuke at all. Oh wait, she did. Dumb bitch. </sarcasm>), and send a total n00b and a bunch of Genin out.

Of course, when she found out from Genma and Raidou what had happened, she brought in the big guns - a team led by Shizune and the Sand Trio to boot. But by then it was a wee bit too late.

Tsunade made a criminal error for a village leader - she assumed that the situation was harmless, even though the village was just coming out of a war and danger could easily lurk anywhere. She should have known better than to send out a bunbch of kids when for all she knew, there could be assassins lurking around, ready to kill any stray Leaf nin.

A *real* leader, in such a time of trial, would've just put the Uchiha twerp on the Bingo Book and sent out an assassin team to dispose of him right away, and the Council be damned - in fact, it baffles me why Tsunade didn't declare Martial Law right away with the situation as it was. Jiraiya himself mentions they'd have saved a lot of trouble if they'd just disposed of Sasgay, didn't he?
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
I think Tsunade had been living the quiet life a bit too long. Long enough that all the ingrained lessons she learned from war were forgotten.
 

ttestagr

Well-Known Member
You're overstating the situation GH. The only intelligence she had on the situation was from Sakura, which I'd put money on only mentioned Sasuke running away. The possibility of meeting Sound nin was high, but there was no one else of higher rank available to send. Tsunade had to deal with that fact, you can't blame the character for the author's screw up about the situation.

Shizune's team was coming back from a mission when they met the Sound nin, and it seems that Tsunade sent for backup from the Sound as soon as she gave the mission, I believe she told Genma and Raido she had sent for backup already when she saw them.

I won't get into the med team that showed up later, that was simply a plot device to keep Chouji and Neji alive.


The legendary three were never chuunin, they were promoted from genin straight to jounin. I'd argue with you about Jiraiya's ability to be discreet as well GH. He did manage to get to only a few feet away from Kisame and Itachi unnoticed while carrying a civilian. The only reason he was noticed was that he used a summon to defend Naruto.

You're right about chuunin leading low rank missions, I don't think they get anything above B.
 

zeebee1

Well-Known Member
You need to remember that Jiraiya did create a information network so effective it new of the Akatsuki with out being found out. I think it's more likely that he just doesn't feel like being discreet.
 

Lumias

Well-Known Member
Or that by acting like a complete loudmouthed idiot when he doesn't have to be discreet that no expects it of him, so when it's needed they're completely blindsided by Jiraiya's ability.
 

Pirazy

Well-Known Member
GenocideHeart said:
Allow me to point in either Jiraiya or any Akimichi's general direction. How do you think they made Jounin? Jiraiya is almost as bad as Naruto at being discreet, and the very NATURE of an Akimichi's fighting style pretty much cans any chance of stealth they may have - they are pure direct fighters with little inventive.

Yet, Chouji's dad was a Jounin, last I checked, which means he must have made Chuunin at some point, and Chouji also made Chuunin, we know that for a fact in those... bad doujinshi that replaced Naruto's manga.
What are your assumptions regarding the Akimichi based on? That they're fat and thus should not be able to plan effectively or use stealth? I beg to differ. Sure the Akimichi are dependent on jutsu-enhanced taijutsu from what we've seen so far, but so what? That doesn't mean they aren't capable of sneaking up on an opponent and overwhelm them with brute force, and have a plan B, C or D ready in case it doesn't work out, big difference from Naruto who only goes in with a plan A, which consists of him kicking the enemy's ass, and act surprised when it doesn't work. My point is, we've seen two Akimichi so far in this story, neither of them have been idiots, although Chouji has shown that he has a short fuse regarding his weight, but that's just a personality quirk, something he developed while growing up along prejudiced brats.

Jiraiya being no good at stealth.. are you kidding me? This guy's life is dedicated to spying, sure it's not for a noble purpose most of the time, but he's still pretty damn good at it, not to mention that he's built a spy network that has connections with both the Akatsuki and people close enough to Orochimaru to know about the limits of his body-swapping jutsu, that's not something an immature idiot can accomplish. And as for his personality, that's just comedy relief, and is strictly restricted to when he's "not on duty", when on a real mission I have no doubts that he's all business and don't kid around. The guy's a freaking sannin FFS, a ninja who's respected as much as the Hokage, you think he got that reputation by goofing off during missions which forced his teammates to pick up the slack?
 
Lumias said:
Or that by acting like a complete loudmouthed idiot when he doesn't have to be discreet that no expects it of him, so when it's needed they're completely blindsided by Jiraiya's ability.
That'd be a nice theory...


...except that Bakamoto is obviously making Team 7 into Sannin MkII, meaning that to call Jiraiya competent is to call NARUTO competent by default.

So don't try that angle. Praising Jiraiya without giving Naruto equal due is pointless. And Tsunade herself stated that Naruto reminded her of how Jiraiya himself used to be.

So there. Unfortunately for you all, Bakamoto made sure to shoot himself in the balls, pretty much, with a pointless cloning of the Sannin.

...

On a side note, a Naruto who somehow got trained by Chiyo would be all sorts of amusing, on general principle. XD
 

Lumias

Well-Known Member
They're similar to be sure, but who said Jiraiya had that as a kid, maybe he learned it as he got older not to mention Sasuke and Orochimaru are not all that similar except in the superficial sense, both are villans now, but Orochimaru always had a dark cruel side. Before the Itachi mind rape Sasuke wasn't cruel. He was cold, and a jerk but not naturally malicous. Completely different drives as well.

Orochimaru's purely self gain and knows it. Sasuke's is a werid all encomposing drive for vengenance, still for yourself, but not in the same manner.
 
Pirazy said:
What are your assumptions regarding the Akimichi based on? That they're fat and thus should not be able to plan effectively or use stealth? I beg to differ. Sure the Akimichi are dependent on jutsu-enhanced taijutsu from what we've seen so far, but so what? That doesn't mean they aren't capable of sneaking up on an opponent and overwhelm them with brute force, and have a plan B, C or D ready in case it doesn't work out, big difference from Naruto who only goes in with a plan A, which consists of him kicking the enemy's ass, and act surprised when it doesn't work. My point is, we've seen two Akimichi so far in this story, neither of them have been idiots, although Chouji has shown that he has a short fuse regarding his weight, but that's just a personality quirk, something he developed while growing up along prejudiced brats.
Okay, let me see. Most of the Akimichi clan jutsu are based on BECOMING HUGE, CATACLYSMATIC BALLS OF DEATH, from what little we saw, if not outright giants. What we saw of Chouji and his dad (during the Invasion) points to pure brute force without a shred of finesse. Much like Naruto, incidentally.

Naruto can get creative if the first approach doesn't work, he proved it. If you argue in favor of an Akimichi, then you have no right to argue AGAINST Naruto, who has SHOWN he's highly adaptable when there's need for it, and ALSO showed that if the situation requires it, he can cooperate with SASUKE of all people.

Oh, and that diversion in the Forest of Death... where he copied his team and Kabuto and fought hours on end... Rememnber that little gem to keep his team safe?

That was HIS idea, and right there it shows brilliant planning in a team.

So please, quit arguing against Naruto being a bad team leader. Against that Rain team, he took charge where even the 'genius' and 'bookworm' failed miserably to come up with a strategy. His unpredictability means that he's an excellent choice for making strange plans up. And catching an enemy off guard is half the battle.

Jiraiya being no good at stealth.. are you kidding me? This guy's life is dedicated to spying, sure it's not for a noble purpose most of the time, but he's still pretty damn good at it, not to mention that he's built a spy network that has connections with both the Akatsuki and people close enough to Orochimaru to know about the limits of his body-swapping jutsu, that's not something an immature idiot can accomplish. And as for his personality, that's just comedy relief, and is strictly restricted to when he's "not on duty", when on a real mission I have no doubts that he's all business and don't kid around. The guy's a freaking sannin FFS, a ninja who's respected as much as the Hokage, you think he got that reputation by goofing off during missions which forced his teammates to pick up the slack?
And Naruto 'goofs off'? Who got Kakashi's ass out of trouble in the Wave arc? Naruto. Who got Team 7 and Kabuto's ass out of trouble in the FoD? Naruto again. Who saved Team 7 from Gaara? F'N NARUTO AGAIN.

Naruto being a goof off only applies if no one he cares about is in danger. Threaten his team, and you're in for a world of hurt. THAT's an important trait for a team leader - to CARE about his teammates.

He's got the spirit, the power and even the creativity. Why the HELL doesn't he deserve Chuunin? He'd do a better job at it than most miserable excuses for team leaders. Like say, Kakashi, who is the poster boy of what NOT to do in a team, namely play favorites.
 

Pirazy

Well-Known Member
GenocideHeart said:
Lumias said:
Or that by acting like a complete loudmouthed idiot when he doesn't have to be discreet that no expects it of him, so when it's needed they're completely blindsided by Jiraiya's ability.
That'd be a nice theory...


...except that Bakamoto is obviously making Team 7 into Sannin MkII, meaning that to call Jiraiya competent is to call NARUTO competent by default.

So don't try that angle. Praising Jiraiya without giving Naruto equal due is pointless. And Tsunade herself stated that Naruto reminded her of how Jiraiya himself used to be.

So there. Unfortunately for you all, Bakamoto made sure to shoot himself in the balls, pretty much, with a pointless cloning of the Sannin.

...

On a side note, a Naruto who somehow got trained by Chiyo would be all sorts of amusing, on general principle. XD
They're not carboncopies, they're based on the directions they took in regards to abilities. Orochimaru was twisted even in early childhood, Sasuke had some similarities with Naruto as a child until Itachi fucked him up, Tsunade didn't waste her talent growing up by acting like a ditzy, airheaded fangirl like Sakura. And Naruto reminding Tsunade of how Jiraiya used to be, past tense there, meaning he changed, probably when he was confronted with the grim reality of being a shinobi. We've seen one instance from when they were young, and that was when they were taking the genin-test from Sandaime, and Jiraiya was screaming while bound to the log. You're basing your entire concept of the Sannin's personalities on one tiny frame from the manga, disregarding the 40-something years inbetween Jiraiya's first day as a genin and now.

And what's with that "praising Jiraiya means you're praising Naruto"-nonsense? They're two separate characters in totally different stages of their life and career! Just because Naruto is based on Jiraiya it doesn't mean he's gonna be exactly the same, unless I missed that time when Naruto pulled out all the underworld-techniques that Jiraiya frequently uses, and employed that stealth he's so good at, not to mention when he peeked in all those bathhouses.

If we get to see Naruto 40 years down the line when he doesn't want to become Hokage, spends his free time getting drunk, buying whores by the bulk and writing pornography as a hobby and main source of income I'll admit to being wrong, but until then I'll regard them as separate characters with one of them being inspired and influenced by the other but not necessarily becoming a clone of him, right down to the talent, abilities, personality and power.
 
And what's with that "praising Jiraiya means you're praising Naruto"-nonsense? They're two separate characters in totally different stages of their life and career! Just because Naruto is based on Jiraiya it doesn't mean he's gonna be exactly the same, unless I missed that time when Naruto pulled out all the underworld-techniques that Jiraiya frequently uses, and employed that stealth he's so good at, not to mention when he peeked in all those bathhouses.
Has it occurred to you that Naruto is stealthy enough to hide and/or get away from Chuunin and Jounin on a REGULAR BASIS whenever he pulls one of his idiotic pranks? And that was BEFORE he even became Genin.

So much for Naruto not being capable of stealth.

You're fighting an uphill battle here. All you see is him wearing orange and charging at Neji, disregarding EVERY INSTANCE where he managed to cook up a plan on the spot that let him surprise or blindside his opponent.

He was observant enough to know Sasuke only let his guard down when he was eating. He was good enough to avoid, among others, an INUZUKA when he stole the scroll of seals (and unless the pale eyes of the guy in the background deceive me, he also avoided a Hyuuga - you know, 360 degree X-ray farsight vision guys?). Heck, he was good enough to improvise against Neji, despite his ASSIGNED TEACHER pretty much leaving him as sacrificial lamb while training emoboy (yeah, Naruto only risked a heart attack or a crippling injury against Neji, who showed no hesitation attacking his own blood. And chakra control helps OH SO MUCH against a guy who can SEAL YOUR CHAKRA. Die, Kakashi.), although it was a long shot.

Had it not been for Jiraiya removing that seal Oro put on him there's a large chance Naruto would've been killed in the fight with neji. Kakashi had to know this. Naruto DOES NOT give up, ever. Yet, he clearly assumed he would.
 

leeyiankun

Well-Known Member
I completely agrees with GH's view, that's why I said earlier that 'Action speaks louder than words'. We see through Sas-gay's 'Kishimoto cool facade', enough that we don't trust blindly into any character in the story anymore. Shikamaru's genius now only holds up on paper, he's yet to proven he's capable of matching his reputation YET.(No, plot power doesn't count. I've seen better plot in Detective Conan.)

And you're right about Shino. He is the one most deserving of a Chunin promotion. Too bad Bakamoto's raping this story right now. Any chance of the manga ever redeming itself is almost close to nil. Post timeskip Manga is 100% pure crap at this moment.
 

Pirazy

Well-Known Member
Okay, let me see. Most of the Akimichi clan jutsu are based on BECOMING HUGE, CATACLYSMATIC BALLS OF DEATH, from what little we saw, if not outright giants. What we saw of Chouji and his dad (during the Invasion) points to pure brute force without a shred of finesse. Much like Naruto, incidentally.
We must be reading different mangas then, I have seen one Akamichi jutsu where the user turned into a giant, and in what context? It was in the middle of a free-for-all warzone, trying to be stealthy and sneak around in that situation while slowly taking down one enemy at a time is just unecessary when you can become a 50m behemoth and just destroy the general area the enemy is in. How often do you think a shinobi encounters such a situation? I'd wager that 99% of the battles in a shinobi's life is fought against 1-4 opponents, and under what cirumstances? Probably during scouting/assassination/escort/info-retrieval missions, meaning turning into a giant wouldn't be beneficial if you wanted to keep things quiet.

The rest of the Akimichi arsenal appears to be changing parts of the body while still staying in normal form, more suited to performing general missions, not everyday on the job is an invasion. Chouji was a genin, and only seemed to know the meatball jutsu, a support-jutsu best used in conjuction with a team that had the means to immobilize an opponent, how lucky that he was on such a team and that as a rookie-genin, he would never fight without his team, unless something unexpected happend. His abilities post-TS are more subtle, where he enlarges just his hands to crush and smash Sai's ink-lions which shows that just because you're an Akimichi it doesn't mean that all you can do his turn into fatzilla and destroy city-blocks.

Naruto can get creative if the first approach doesn't work, he proved it. If you argue in favor of an Akimichi, then you have no right to argue AGAINST Naruto, who has SHOWN he's highly adaptable when there's need for it, and ALSO showed that if the situation requires it, he can cooperate with SASUKE of all people.
I never said Naruto couldn't improvise, in fact, I said it was his best ability. Problem is that's just useful for Naruto, how is it gonna help his teammates in the heat of battle if he comes up with something to defeat his opponent? His teammates have their own opponents to worry about. Shouldn't be anything to worry about if everyone on the same level, problem is Naruto doesn't know either his, or anyone else's limit, that's why he's unfit to lead.

Imagine the following scenario: Sasuke's escort when he escapes the village is Orochimaru and Kabuto instead of the Sound 4, do you think that Naruto as a team leader would:
A: Decide to retreat due to overwhelming odds.
B: Attack immediately after coming up with a hastily thought-out plan that assumes it's a 100% chance of success, like all his plans.

Gosh, it looks like Naruto got him and his entire team killed because he doesn't stop to think about the consequences of his actions. So what if the situation requires that he can work with someone he doesn't like? That's not a bonus, that's a goddamn requirement for being a leader.


Oh, and that diversion in the Forest of Death... where he copied his team and Kabuto and fought hours on end... Rememnber that little gem to keep his team safe?

That was HIS idea, and right there it shows brilliant planning in a team.
It was never stated who came up with the plan, Naruto did all the work though, and that was why Sakura complimented him, he himself said that his team did it, had it been his own plan I have no doubts that he would have taken full credit, like he did in the battle against Zabuza, his only moment in the story where he used surprising tactics and cunning to take on a superior opponent, and in that battle Sasuke played a crucial part of the plan.

During the battle against the rain-nins he almost got killed twice, 1st time when he rushed an illusion, punched it and fell through the illusion, landing on his hands and knees and about to get a kunai to the neck. 2nd time where he once again rushed the illusions after they had trapped the rain-nins, and upon hearing Sakura screaming that Sasuke shouldn't use the sharingan looked back to his team and almost got a kunai trough the skull. Not exactly chuunin-material selfcontrol there, a distraction could be the end of your life, not to mention your teammates.

So please, quit arguing against Naruto being a bad team leader. Against that Rain team, he took charge where even the 'genius' and 'bookworm' failed miserably to come up with a strategy. His unpredictability means that he's an excellent choice for making strange plans up. And catching an enemy off guard is half the battle.
Again, who came up with the plan isn't revealed, and why drag Sakura and Sasuke into it? I never claimed they'd be more deserving of a promotion than Naruto. They, like Naruto, lack certain key elements to become a good leader. Just because a plan is strange it doesn't mean it's good, his skill in improvisation is only displayed in the heat of battle, never has he showed that he can plan ahead before actually engaging the enemy or encountering the threat. I certainly wouldn't want a leader who can only plan while someone is trying to kill him and me.

And Naruto 'goofs off'? Who got Kakashi's ass out of trouble in the Wave arc? Naruto. Who got Team 7 and Kabuto's ass out of trouble in the FoD? Naruto again. Who saved Team 7 from Gaara? F'N NARUTO AGAIN.

Naruto being a goof off only applies if no one he cares about is in danger. Threaten his team, and you're in for a world of hurt. THAT's an important trait for a team leader - to CARE about his teammates.
I was referring to when he's on a mission, not while in direct combat with an enemy. The only during a mission time Naruto isn't behaving like a 6-year old is when he's fighting for his life, not that big of a deal but not an admirable trait either. Caring about your comrades is good, but not a requirement to become a chuunin, we've already seen Konoha's policy of putting your teammates life above the success of the mission so if they were forced to choose between to people to promote I believe they'd take the one who was slightly better but didn't care about his teammates.

He's got the spirit, the power and even the creativity. Why the HELL doesn't he deserve Chuunin? He'd do a better job at it than most miserable excuses for team leaders. Like say, Kakashi, who is the poster boy of what NOT to do in a team, namely play favorites.
I'm not going to argue the ranks of other characters, the question was why Naruto shouldn't be promoted, you can't promote people by saying that there already are a bunch of idiots holding the rank.

Note that I'm not belittling Naruto's strategic thinking, he's made alot of plans that could have succeeded had it not been for a special ability the opponent had hidden as a trumph card. In my opinion he's the best ad-libber in Konoha, problem is that it is only used when he's in mortal danger, if he could get some patience and put his improvisational skills to use he'd probably one of the best strategics in Konoha, almost up there with Shikamaru who's a strategic genius and have some ability in thinking on the fly, which he showed during the rescue-Sasuke-arc and against Hidan and Kakuzu, he's still not up to Naruto's level in that area though as Naruto can fight and plan at the same time, Shikamaru gets passive while doing it.
 

Mighty Bob

Well-Known Member
Sorry to add to the dog pile but I'm also with GH here. I do agree that Naruto's team leading and planning abilities are somewhat lacking, but I'm of the mind that after a try or two he'd start to shine (which, actually, seems to be the case for pretty much everything he does. Things might not click for him right away but when they do it's generally somethin special)

Really though, the whole concept of promoting someone to a leadership position based on how they handle one on one fights seems pretty screwed up to begin with to me.
 
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