Nasuverse Loose Lips

[Revanant Dragoon]

I was watching some of the anime FSN earlier and I couldn't help but wonder what might have happened if Archer had let something slip that he didn't mean to? Perhaps allude to Shirou's ambition to follow his father's dreams, or reference something equally as personal?

Either way Shirou starts getting awfully damn suspicious of the Servant. Starts poking around, trying to find out more about Archer. The Servant confronts him on this, resulting in several statements that make no sense to Shirou, all of which center around the Throne of Heroes. However, they keep nagging him, hinting at things he doesn't yet understand-but are just out of reach.

Basically, what would happen should Shirou discover the full extent of his powers earlier on than in canon? And if the other Masters decided that he was a little too powerful to keep around?

[Edit]: Hope that clarifies everything; I definitely have to stay focused more when I'm posting. <_<

 

[Mereo Flere]

"My whole life was, Unlimited Blade Works!"

<<

>>

Seriously, though...his friends would show concern, ask what happened, or be unwilling to accept it. His enemies would try to use it to their advantage and, well, fail.

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[Revanant Dragoon]

I'm confused at what you're getting at with Archer 'letting something slip'. The main problem with Archer's past is that he can't remember it, thus 'letting something slip' is sort of difficult considering he doesn't recall any real information. When he does, he'd probably be more interested in killing Shirou than anything.

:huh:

You serious? Huh. Well, that's what I get for not watching the full anime before posting something like this. Oops.

Moreover, regardless of my confusion, putting two and two together doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get four. It's a rather big leap to go from "Hey, this guy seems to know me!" to "OMFGWTFBBQ! This guy is me!".

...should probably think things through more before I post. Or at least take a nap. :sweat:

Yeah its a big leap. A really big leap. I was thinking more along the lines of Shirou getting really wierded out and starting to watch Archer more closely...ya know what? I'm just gonna fix the damn post altogether. *scurries off to fix the problems caused his own inattentiveness*

 

[zeebee1]

Does that mean he starts realizing the impossible, and that he's Archer? Or maybe through obsessing over Archer he realizes the sheer potential of his own magical talent? I don't know much about the series, but would it be possible for Shirou to use a reality marble?

 

[Revanant Dragoon]

Does that mean he starts realizing the impossible, and that he's Archer? Or maybe through obsessing over Archer he realizes the sheer potential of his own magical talent? I don't know much about the seris, but would it be possible for Shirou to use a reality marble?

It seems that it was a little unclear at first :sweat: Thought I fixed that. Eh, oh well.

Definitely the second, at least initially. He probably would start getting suspicious as he notices a lot of his abilities are like Archers, but it would take something big to really tip him off.

I think that he can in the game at least. I dunno about the anime though, as I haven't finished it yet. But he is going to become significantly stronger. Unfortunately that plants all bullseye squarely on him and Saber though.

 

[zeebee1]

I saw one scene in the anime where Rin marvels as Shirou makes Kanshou & Bakuya.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej3AomBVBpw

There is the fight against Berserker where he traces Saber's orignal sword. The one that I don't think he even knew existed. He did it based on Archer's advice that you should trace the strongest weapon in your mind, even if you have never seen it before. Of course I could be wrong, seeing as I've only watched clips for the fights.

 

[xXSpawmOfSinXx]

didn't archer already do something like this in the Unlimited Blade Works scenario of Fate/Stay Night? :huh:

 

[Revanant Dragoon]

Yeah, but my point was that he does it significantly earlier than the usual plot, resulting in everything going to hell in a handbasket.

 

[Shikaze]

Given that, due to Avalon, he ca go head to head with Servants, if he has in addition his reality marble, he can frikkin win the war on his own.
No, what should happen is not the other Master trying to off him, though they're going to try.
At this point of uberpwnage, either The Magic Association, or a few Dead Apostle are going to take a real good interest in him.

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[Revanant Dragoon]

Yeah, but my point was that he does it significantly earlier than the usual plot, resulting in everything going to hell in a handbasket.

If you're trying to go for Shirou getting UBW, I'd recommend trying something else. Archer gave Shirou some rather useful (if somewhat unintentional) advice that, coupled with later battling him, helped Shirou develop UBW at that point. Going for the 'this all happens faster... so Shirou should get this faster' doesn't necessarily compute.

Nah, I'm not going for the UBW. I was more going to settle with Shirou figuring out how to conjure weapons during his second fight with Rider, then everything going to hell. So basically I'm going for 'he learns how to fight earlier, and a butterfly flaps its wings...and everything goes to hell.' Sadly I don't have much planned out, so I can't get too specific.

Although, I was wondering. Exactly how rare is Shirou's tracing sorcery? Somewhat eclectic, or 'wtf NOBODY does that'?

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[Mereo Flere]

It should be noted that Shirou's ability in and of itself isn't too useful. It can only copy stuff that is. The fact that, after a period of time, it becomes so versatile is what makes it so strong.

Even if Shirou came up with the ability sooner, if he didn't have access to the same experience as Archer then it still wouldn't match up with UBW's Shirou, and definitely not HF Shirou.

 

[Revanant Dragoon]

Hmmm...interesting. Say, can a Master who already has a Servant make a contract with another Servant without stealing/stripping the original master of his command seals?

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[Revanant Dragoon]

Ah. Thanks. That clarifies quite a bit. So the only restriction is if the Servant has a contract in place, but not if the Master does? (sorry for all the questions but I don't know any other sources.)

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[Mereo Flere]

However!

It is possible for a servant to receive mana from more than one person. Other than sex and certain abilities inherent to the servant itself though, I'm not sure what other methods are available.

 

[ttestagr]

It is possible for a servant to have two masters, Rider's case with Sakura and Shinji are proof. While Shinji served as her sole master in terms of her abilities and giving her mana, Sakura was still her master as well.

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[ttestagr]

Rider's stats became lower with Shinji as her master, like Saber's with Shirou. That proves that there was a connection between them, because if there wasn't Rider would have kept the same stats she had with Sakura. Lacking mana isn't an excuse either, since she was using innocents to keep herself charged.

 

[Fatuous One]

???

 

[toraneko]

I'm pretty sure one Master can make contract with more than one Servant at one. However, I agree with F1: a single Servant can't be contracted to more than one Master at once.

Shinji was cheating, plain and simple. The book let him usurp Sakura's Master rights and take Rider as his own. I believe it's implied that he bullied Sakura into commanding Rider to obey him.

IMO, the reason Rider's stats were lower with Shinji as her "Master" is because Shinji's cheat partially seperated her from her contract. It doesn't help that serving a scumbag like Shinji is against her nature, so she must have been fighting against herself all the way. And finally, there is the "no normal mana collection method" problem with Shinji at the helm.

 

[Mereo Flere]

Problem is, Shinji has no significant amount of mana to begin with, so that method doesn't really work.

Which is why, Rider was going around stealing it from people. We're not exactly sure how many victims there were, but there was that school incident as well as Ayako.