Marvel Discussion
- Thread starter KageX
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We aren't going to like this latest thing Marvel has done. We know we won't, so I'll get to it. Marvel has just retconned Steve Rogers history, and made him be a double agent of HYDRA the whole time. I repeat. Captain America, the closest comic writing has ever had to a true paladin, was a traitor since the beginning.
Marvel, what the fuck were you thinking? This is One More Day levels of stupid.
Marvel, what the fuck were you thinking? This is One More Day levels of stupid.
I almost threw my tablet upon seeing that, and Cap is nowhere near my favorite. That angle goes above and beyond OMD, as that move was arguably designed to make Peter more relatable (however stupidly it was done). This, however, reeks of cheap sensationalism and shock value to sell a few thousand more books. Whoever approved that plot point should be fired and gagged from any further creative decisions whatsoever.
Of course, with THAT reveal presumably in the pipe, I won't be quite so infuriated if the #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend movement got their way with that one particular design. Be careful what you ask for, motherfuckers, be careful what you ask for...
Of course, with THAT reveal presumably in the pipe, I won't be quite so infuriated if the #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend movement got their way with that one particular design. Be careful what you ask for, motherfuckers, be careful what you ask for...
The ruckus is because of the fact that we've seen this bullshit before. The year long lie to everyone that was "Peter Parker's gone for good" in Superior Spider-Man. Superior Iron Man, though that one was somewhat justified due to the AXIS storyline. The company line on this one seems to want to tout a storyline for Sam Wilson. They had the chance when he was handed the mantle of Captain America, but they wasted it for AXIS. They're being lazy on top of sensationalist. And the laziness is made worse in that it writes Steve Rogers into a hole. They either have to repeal it in issue 2, or fully commit to the bullshit. Either way, they pissed over the 75th anniversary of Captain America with this stunt.
... So there isn't a specific art design? 'Cause that had me confused...
And besides, Steve has had girlfriends, and he's never shown any inclination that he's the type to seek out casual relationships. He's always been the type to seek a meaningful relationship with someone.
Man, the MCU has some things to answer for...
EDIT: Found this mini-article. Pretty bland stuff, but the comments... some of them make good points.
And besides, Steve has had girlfriends, and he's never shown any inclination that he's the type to seek out casual relationships. He's always been the type to seek a meaningful relationship with someone.
Man, the MCU has some things to answer for...
EDIT: Found this mini-article. Pretty bland stuff, but the comments... some of them make good points.
Characters having relationships with the opposite gender in the past has never stopped them before. Bobby was suddenly gay after years of skirt chasing in X-men for example, but it actually kind of made a little sense given a small amount of suspension because they at least picked someone who wasn't very successful romantically. Implying that it was somewhat intentional and/or didn't work out because he couldn't get over his orientation and couldn't invest in a woman enough to make it work. It also fit with the social themes X-men deals with on a regular basis.
I have issues with it if a character has a long history of not being gay and it being really obvious. Cap has always been the 'inclusive' hero who is out for everyone and freedom and such, turning him gay would actually undermine that a little. It gives him an ulterior motive and would make him less of a symbol for everyone else. It actually reduces his impact in regard to his beliefs and standing up for them. I don't mind gay superheros at all, but I really don't get why we can't make new ones or stick with characters where it actually makes sense that they might be.
Steve is supposed to be 'that guy'. The guy who could stand back and take the easy path, but doesn't. The guy who is the American 'ideal' and stands up for everyone regardless. He's the symbol for the rest of us to live up to. He kind of needs to not be gay, but representative of the guys who aren't a minority and still stand up for everyone because it's right. The Marvel Universe needs heroes like that, and it's guys like Steve and Peter Parker who fill that space. He's the example and symbol that the straight white guy should try to live up to because he really is what he says he is and doesn't back down from it. He's 'that guy' who backs up what he says he stands for.
I don't even mind a Gay Cap, in fact I'd kind of like to see it, but Steve? No. That doesn't make sense given his history, both romantic and idealistically. Make it someone else who takes the mantle for a while or something.
Hell, give one of the already gay characters a more prominent role in the Marvel Universe rather than pulling in someone else who doesn't have the backstory to hold it up into it. There are several after all.
I'm all for gay superheroes, or any other gender identity type, but it really should make some level of sense and fit with the character and their history. It usually ends up not really working. Create someone new or pick a character where it can be made to make some level of sense given their history.
Honestly, I don't see why they aren't popularizing already gay characters. If there's such a market for it and fans want it so much, why not? They could easily be pushing books and bringing these characters up front, yet don't.
I have issues with it if a character has a long history of not being gay and it being really obvious. Cap has always been the 'inclusive' hero who is out for everyone and freedom and such, turning him gay would actually undermine that a little. It gives him an ulterior motive and would make him less of a symbol for everyone else. It actually reduces his impact in regard to his beliefs and standing up for them. I don't mind gay superheros at all, but I really don't get why we can't make new ones or stick with characters where it actually makes sense that they might be.
Steve is supposed to be 'that guy'. The guy who could stand back and take the easy path, but doesn't. The guy who is the American 'ideal' and stands up for everyone regardless. He's the symbol for the rest of us to live up to. He kind of needs to not be gay, but representative of the guys who aren't a minority and still stand up for everyone because it's right. The Marvel Universe needs heroes like that, and it's guys like Steve and Peter Parker who fill that space. He's the example and symbol that the straight white guy should try to live up to because he really is what he says he is and doesn't back down from it. He's 'that guy' who backs up what he says he stands for.
I don't even mind a Gay Cap, in fact I'd kind of like to see it, but Steve? No. That doesn't make sense given his history, both romantic and idealistically. Make it someone else who takes the mantle for a while or something.
Hell, give one of the already gay characters a more prominent role in the Marvel Universe rather than pulling in someone else who doesn't have the backstory to hold it up into it. There are several after all.
I'm all for gay superheroes, or any other gender identity type, but it really should make some level of sense and fit with the character and their history. It usually ends up not really working. Create someone new or pick a character where it can be made to make some level of sense given their history.
Honestly, I don't see why they aren't popularizing already gay characters. If there's such a market for it and fans want it so much, why not? They could easily be pushing books and bringing these characters up front, yet don't.
I don't mind that in and of itself. Like I said, I'm on board for a gay Cap, just not Steve. It doesn't make sense for it to be Steve and goes against decades of history for the character and would undermine what he's about. I didn't even mind Fem-Thor, partially because it kind of fits with the myths in a roundabout way, and partially because it wasn't really Thor. Sam being Cap didn't bug me a bit either, nor did Miles as Spider-Man. They made sense in context and didn't alter the existing characters. They were new and different people taking up a mantle, and that does make sense on some level.
This Hydra thing is probably smoke and mirrors, Steve will be his old self again or has some long plan in place almost without a doubt. People he 'killed' will turn out to not be dead or some such and he'll have done it 'because it needed to be done'. Comics do this sort of thing all the time.
This Hydra thing is probably smoke and mirrors, Steve will be his old self again or has some long plan in place almost without a doubt. People he 'killed' will turn out to not be dead or some such and he'll have done it 'because it needed to be done'. Comics do this sort of thing all the time.
Captain America being a Hydra agent is obviously some kind of publicity stunt that won't last more than a couple of issues. He's been fighting Hydra for three quarters of a century, and has literally punched Hitler in the face before, it's simply impossible to reconcile this plot twist with his history. It will be revealed to be a clone/imposter/alternate-universe-character/mind-control/triple agent situation and everyone will quickly forget about it.
Personally, I would've gone with him just acting like that because no one would be able to verify whether he was part of Hydra or not. Just... say "Yeah I'm Hydra. Have been the entire time." and being a total dick about secrecy whenever asked to prove it.
Hydra Agent #1: Oh yeah? Prove you're one of us.
Captain America: Do you really think I'd leave evidence of my involvement with Hydra if I was truly undercover? This is the most grand and complicated ruse Hydra has ever executed to the point that I didn't even know until my activation phrase was used.
Hydra Agent #2: You know... he has a point.
Hydra Agent #1: Oh yeah? Prove you're one of us.
Captain America: Do you really think I'd leave evidence of my involvement with Hydra if I was truly undercover? This is the most grand and complicated ruse Hydra has ever executed to the point that I didn't even know until my activation phrase was used.
Hydra Agent #2: You know... he has a point.
I do have to say that having read Civil War II it seems every bit as heavy handed as Civil War I was at its worst. I'd heard about the whole mess beforehand, but having two hero deaths, one giving a deathbed encouragement to Carol to Keep on with the Future Crime Prevention thing... well, it's just kinda over the top, and not in a good way.