Marvel Discussion

ankokudaishogun · Jul 7, 2016

da_fox2279 said:

Go and read Tom King's Vision series. Then go and weep that that series sold like shit and King is now DC exclusive.

That said, I'm happy they aren't calling them "Young Avengers"... even though they are the Teen Titans.

Best part? Cho is the oldest there. He's going to be forced to be the voice of the reason.

goldenarms · Jul 7, 2016

nixofcyzerra said:

They're afraid that if readers see too many black people in one comic, it'll be perceived as a "black" comic and sales will go down (Just posting this link for no real reason. ::whistles::).

Ordo said:

To be frank, I have never liked legacy characters. To me, it's just a copout to making new characters, new superheroes, and a good way of dodging the inevitable "retirement" issue. "We don't need to retire X when we can just put a new person behind the symbol!"

No, really, I want to see new characters coming up with their own problems and their own methods for doing the crimefighting thing, all while unencumbered by the shadow of their predecessors. They can be inspired by pre-existing heroes, but, for better or for worse, they aren't those guys, much like how children share a lot of things with their parents, but they have their own interests and approaches to life.

da_fox2279 · Jul 8, 2016

H-Man · Jul 8, 2016

Why is Donald Trump in a Marvel comic?

nixofcyzerra · Jul 8, 2016

Holy Hell, how did I not immediately notice that?

ankokudaishogun · Jul 9, 2016

H-Man said:

He turned into MODAAK after Loki swept away all his electoral base

shinzero01 · Jul 12, 2016

goldenarms said:

nixofcyzerra said:

They're afraid that if readers see too many black people in one comic, it'll be perceived as a "black" comic and sales will go down (Just posting this link for no real reason. ::whistles::).

Ordo said:

To be frank, I have never liked legacy characters. To me, it's just a copout to making new characters, new superheroes, and a good way of dodging the inevitable "retirement" issue. "We don't need to retire X when we can just put a new person behind the symbol!"

No, really, I want to see new characters coming up with their own problems and their own methods for doing the crimefighting thing, all while unencumbered by the shadow of their predecessors. They can be inspired by pre-existing heroes, but, for better or for worse, they aren't those guys, much like how children share a lot of things with their parents, but they have their own interests and approaches to life.

I have to second this. Marvel seems to have gotten lazy when it comes to making new, likeable heroes and just seems to go the legacy route to add diversity to comics.
Riri actually made her own power armor in her dorm (with its own unique 'look') and they're just gonna saddle her with Tony Stark's moniker? It just seems... pointless.

goldenarms · Jul 15, 2016

Gwenpool?

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDv4QCfa8sw[/video]

Is the plan to make people so sick of Gwen Stacey that the fans will finally shut up about her and let her stay dead in peace?

AJ_Katon · Jul 15, 2016

goldenarms said:

She's not really a gwen. She just made up the name.

Rising Dragon · Jul 16, 2016

So now they're ridding themselves of Bruce Banner so they can make a new Incredible Hulk... as a Korean teenager. This has gotten just downright disgraceful.

Contrabardus · Jul 16, 2016

Rising Dragon said:

This has been something they've been moving towards for a long time. Well before this whole SJW gender politics mess was a thing. I doubt that had much to do with it in this case. Cho has been getting set up for this for years.

Besides, you don't seriously think Banner/Hulk is gone permanently do you? Comics have been pulling this for decades, it's not like this is a new thing that has never happened before or that Banner/Hulk is really gone forever.

Like I said in another thread, getting mad about this sort of thing in comics is like getting mad at professional wrestling when a heel wins a match. Same goes for 'Captain Hydra' and the people who were crying over that.

~NGD OMEGA~ · Jul 16, 2016

I discussed this back when I discussed the Ironman thing above on IRC, but this would seriously make a lot more sense as it's own alt universe type of deal, particularly as a Batman Beyond Style passing the torch type of thing. I mean Christ the Ironman one alone looks interesting above, like Tony himself is either dead of old age or missing since he's not as young as he used to be and got captured by some asshole to track down and save as a later endgoal, so he had to leave an AI of himself behind to guide and train a potential new Ironman in his stead. Would be friggin perfect in a Beyond Style alt verse.

On top of all the other changes they're going for it would just flat out make sense as a way to branch out to new audiences by cutting ties from the backlog of the current reality to give fresh readers the fun of an interesting story while being able to learn with the new heroes what backstories are relevant in this future alt universe, while keeping current fans fond of the old heroes a reason to keep reading about the characters they give a shit about rather than trying to sell them newer 'better' versions of what they already were happy with.

That NEVER ends well to say the least. :sweat2:

da_fox2279 · Jul 16, 2016

~NGD OMEGA~ said:

I discussed this back when I discussed the Ironman thing above on IRC, but this would seriously make a lot more sense as it's own alt universe type of deal, particularly as a Batman Beyond Style passing the torch type of thing. I mean Christ the Ironman one alone looks interesting above, like Tony himself is either dead of old age or missing since he's not as young as he used to be and got captured by some asshole to track down and save as a later endgoal, so he had to leave an AI of himself behind to guide and train a potential new Ironman in his stead. Would be friggin perfect in a Beyond Style alt verse.

On top of all the other changes they're going for it would just flat out make sense as a way to branch out to new audiences by cutting ties from the backlog of the current reality to give fresh readers the fun of an interesting story while being able to learn with the new heroes what backstories are relevant in this future alt universe, while keeping current fans fond of the old heroes a reason to keep reading about the characters they give a shit about rather than trying to sell them newer 'better' versions of what they already were happy with.

That NEVER ends well to say the least. :sweat2:

So... you're saying they need to launch an All-New, All-Different Ultimate Marvel Universe?

~NGD OMEGA~ · Jul 16, 2016

As opposed to randomly replacing people or passing mantles over with generally iffy plot progressions like say the super serum randomly aging you all of a sudden (Though that being said Falcon as the next Captain America is fine, the justification though for the transition was pretty flimsy), losing the right to use the hammer, and so on? Yeah basically. I mean it's not like the characters in question themselves are bad, hell I love Ms. Marvel enough to actually buy the damn books and even I'll tell you the reason she's called Ms. Marvel at all is flimsy and dumb. But she's fun at last and I never cared about Carol in the first place.

The issue is you're easily pissing off fans by forcing these random arbitrary changes on them when they are already fine with the characters that exist. If you wanted to do a massive shakeup like this for representation and to pull in a new audience, an alternate universe set in the future like Beyond just flat out makes more sense. Gives you a proper starting point without any of the convoluted history to tie you down so new readers can come in, and old ones might pop in to see what happened to that universes version of the characters in the future. It just flat out makes more sense.

Would be better than what happened to Ultimate Universe at least.

da_fox2279 · Jul 16, 2016

~NGD OMEGA~ said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Comics_2

*Whistles softly* Just sayin'...

But I do get what you're saying. A Marvel Beyond 'verse would be pretty cool, if it's done by the right people.

*And* it's done as an actual neatly-thought out project. No half-assing it. Make a plan for 5 years worth of storylines, at least. Then make sure any changes that the writers want to make can be made without screwing up the plan. We don't want a mess like the Nu52, do we?

~NGD OMEGA~ · Jul 17, 2016

True. I'm saying that's the route I would have taken, keep the old just add a new fresh line for people to start with a fresh slate with. Backlash from this sort of thing instead is just to be expected, and frankly the same would be true no matter who the new characters happened to be so just saying everyone who disagrees must be sexist or racist is frankly a moron.

Christ remember when they wanted to replace Peter in the Clone Saga with that Ben Reilly guy? Literally a clone (or rather Peter was the clone but whatever) so it would have virtually been the same guy so there's no racist or sexist overtones you could possibly infer from that, and people STILL pitched a fit.

No shit people are pissed off, when you try to replace the old heroes with new ones taking their place instead, especially when you're outright saying it's to pander to the usual Tumblr crowd who wouldn't buy the books regardless.

Seriously there could be some good ideas here, like I said the idea that Tony leaves behind an AI to train a successor is an intriguing one to say the least in a far off Beyond esque future where no shit the majority of the characters would have retired by then and new people would have to fill their shoes. Would be a great jumping off point to say the least to let fresh writers play around with the ideas a bit. But nope, they forced it here. And I don't see it going way to be honest.

Luckily if there's one thing comics are good at its resetting shit to zero again when it doesn't work through convoluted storytelling, but that's what makes it so hard for people to get into them in the first place.

ankokudaishogun · Jul 17, 2016

Rising Dragon said:

Actually, Cho has been the new Hulk for a while, already.

It's therefore more "we already have a new Hulk, let's kill Bruce for shock effect"- just remember this is not going to last. Which is arguably a bad thing, since Cho is totally awesome and brings a new side of ANGST compared to Bruce's usual.

Rhodey was killed most likely NOT because they already had a New Negro Character taking his place but because he was Carol's boyfriend.

As for the Clone Saga, the main problem IIRC was Peter being the clone, therefore "invalidating" his stories.

da_fox2279 · Jul 17, 2016

ankokudaishogun said:

Rising Dragon said:

Actually, Cho has been the new Hulk for a while, already.

It's therefore more "we already have a new Hulk, let's kill Bruce for shock effect"- just remember this is not going to last. Which is arguably a bad thing, since Cho is totally awesome and brings a new side of ANGST compared to Bruce's usual.

What's going on with Cho that's causing him to angst?

~NGD OMEGA~ · Jul 17, 2016

ankokudaishogun said:

While I won't say that people didn't make this kind of dumb argument, even I'll admit I saw a couple of those, you can't honestly tell me the fact that they tried to replace Peter with a new character they just recently didn't introduce wasn't a factor at all. This is largely an issue of getting attached to the originals more than anything frankly. Even were Peter the clone and Ben wasn't, there still would have been a problem with the transition.

Passing the torch properly tends to be hard to do frankly, especially when you don't have a good excuse like 'old age' that people can reasonably get behind.

goldenarms · Jul 18, 2016

Rising Dragon said:

So, again, Marvel doesn't have the balls to just kill off a character/let their story end and invest in a Legacy character...

I mean, I can kind of get Spider-man, Captain American, and even Iron Man getting handed down, but what in the jolly red fuck are they doing handing down a Hulk legacy? Is this the reason they killed off She-Hulk, so they didn't have fans go, "WTF is this, we already have a Legacy Hulk (and she's female, too)?"

goldenarms · Jul 18, 2016

ankokudaishogun said:

...Marvel has a serious problem with relationships. Have the DEVIL cosmically retcon the nicest guy in the Marvelverse's marriage to never have happened, have Thanos kill a brotha, have Thanos make a dude immortal so that he can never be with his lover... have they not heard of, you know, mutual separation?

ankokudaishogun said:

They never should have went that route in the first place.Any kind of mindfuck story where you're wondering who's the real one and who's not is extremely difficult to do right, and will have plot holes the size of cannonfire when messed up. At most, they should have had a clone of Spider-Man that thinks he's the real Spider-Man running around the city while unknowingly working for.... I don't know, Doc Ock or something, and the real Spider-Man has to put a stop to him because he's messing up his crime fighting identity, but also his personal life -- Peter Parker seen making out with, say, Felicia or something.

LORD_ARM · Jul 22, 2016

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymw5uvViqPU[/video]

da_fox2279 · Jul 24, 2016

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSzx-zryEgM[/video]

Prince Charon · Jul 26, 2016

da_fox2279 said:

"What's this?"

"The wifi password. We're not savages."

:snigger:

Ordo · Sep 15, 2016

Ta-Nehisi Coates Explains How He's Turning Black Panther Into a Superhero Again

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