Naruto Naruto Canon Tweaks

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
thecuiy said:
I always believed it because the Naruto-Sasuke bromance was better than most of the pairings in Naruto, period, and since people don't like the idea of yaoi, they genderswap either Naruto or Sasuke.

I like it because I find the idea of yandare/tsundere femSasuke hilarious. femNaruto would be a bit too much of a cliche Maniac Pixie Dream Girl and her relationship with Sasuke would be about as cringe worthy as Sasu/Saku.
Okay that I can understand. People want a well written romance, and Naruto/Sasuke is the closest they are going to get to one in this fandom. That does explain the popularity of female Sasuke. I can get that, even though I don't personally care too much for romance stories. Also thanks for actually providing a valid explanation, unlike someone else in this thread.

Although now I just have to wonder why so many people are looking for well written romance in a Shonen Jump manga? I feel like all those people who get so emotionally invested in their favorite pairing are really reading the wrong genre of manga.

Shirotsume said:
So you haven't been paying attention then. Got it.
And wow, thanks for wasting both our time with that useless response. You do know that if you respond to someone saying they don't understand your position by stating they are just ignorant and dismissing them, that just makes them look right and you look like you don't actually have anything to support your opinion, right?
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
I'm not going to sit here and dig up pages and pages of discussion just so you can ignore it, altered nova. I've tried that before, and you just blew me off.

Why should I waste my own time when you're just going to ignore it and keep on saying the same BS?
 

Yorae Rasante

Well-Known Member
Myself, I would make Haku gay. It wouldn't change much since he died, but... it would be a positive character that happens to be gay and ok with it.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
Honestly, I would have to guess that casual homosexuality would be pretty accepted in Ninjaworld, just not really looked upon as a viable endgame.

Sort of like how japanese schoolgirls have 'acceptable' lesbian relationships, but are still expected to marry a dude, I would guess ninjas have 'acceptable' relationships (that might or might not be gay depending on who in the team you trust most) to help with mission stress and the like, but are still expected to sire a child, even if they don't marry or the like.

So in that way, Haku would be a positive character, but it probably wouldn't really change anything at all.

Did we ever get any proof that Kurenai/Asuma were planning on making their relationship official, or even any proof at all that ninja even HAVE marriage/et all, or if it was just a 'civilian' concept?
 

AJ_Katon

Well-Known Member
I thought haku and zabuza were examples of hide your gays?
 

Knyght

The Collector


So I was thinking of more tweaks in regards to Naruto vs Kimimaro.

Firstly, Naruto wouldn't divide his chakra between a few hundred spectators whilst only small groups go in to get owned by Kimimaro. This is his first one-on-one fight of the mission and second-to-last fight of Part 1 but his fighting ability took a complete nosedive, despite doing a decent job of helping out the team so far. So Naruto creates a much smaller number of clones and has them try to overcome Kimimaro with cooperation taijutsu, throwing weapons, explosives and Rasengans. It still ultimately amounts to nothing as Kimimaro tears his way through them but he puts in a better effort at least.

At some point, during this fight or just during mission, Naruto thinks about summoning a toad but doesn't because he still can't use it reliably since he'd either summon a small toad or one so big it would be more of a hindrance. As long as the possibility it actually addressed instead of ignored entirely.

And we learn more about Kimimaro's past directly instead of Kabuto and Orochimaru's discussion. I would have appreciated the approach the anime took in developing his backstory and it could have tied in with the Sound Four as well. Kimimaro could have been the first member and we could have learned about their past through his own, something that was completely ignored even in the databook.

There are noticeable similarities between Kimimaro and Haku and that anime-only scene where Kimimaro briefly meets him in the flashback was a nice touch. It would have been cool if we'd had that in canon and if Naruto had actually realised that Kimimaro was like Haku.

Then, as I said before, Gaara arrives to finish what Naruto started. He even ties in with the "solitude and acknowledgement" theme of the mentioned characters.
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
Altered Nova said:
Haku's gender is not really relevant to the plot at all, beyond that one "no way she's a boy?!" joke reaction from Naruto. I don't see how changing it could possibly improve the manga in any way, unless you just think crossdressing girly men are gross.
One word: killing.

Being able to kill at their age was something Kakashi was explicitly against, and for various reasons. Now imagine Naruto having not just to kill someone, but a girl that he befriended with all kinds of fucked up emotional issues. Can he really bring himself to basically ignore years of social conditioning to kill a girl, especially one that has no fight in her (Naruto has alluded to such conditioning existing among ninja when he told Tsunade, "I don't care if she's a woman! I'm still going to kick her ass!").

Of course, making Haku a girl would paint some pretty damn unsavory images as it was, given that Haku was a slave at some point before meeting with Zabuza, and lord knows the idea of Zabuza literally beating such brutal methods into a girl, as opposed to a boy would likely be too much for the editorial staff to support in a shonen title (Seinen on the other hand...).
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
knight504 said:
Hey, these count as tweaks, right?
Gaara vs Deidara

Right?!
Pretty sure this one counts as a straight up divergence, considering that instead of being defeated and captured by Deidara, Gaara blows him away with a fucking bijuudama. Which was awesome.

goldenarms said:
Altered Nova said:
Haku's gender is not really relevant to the plot at all, beyond that one "no way she's a boy?!" joke reaction from Naruto. I don't see how changing it could possibly improve the manga in any way, unless you just think crossdressing girly men are gross.
One word: killing.

Being able to kill at their age was something Kakashi was explicitly against, and for various reasons. Now imagine Naruto having not just to kill someone, but a girl that he befriended with all kinds of fucked up emotional issues. Can he really bring himself to basically ignore years of social conditioning to kill a girl, especially one that has no fight in her (Naruto has alluded to such conditioning existing among ninja when he told Tsunade, "I don't care if she's a woman! I'm still going to kick her ass!").
Naruto could barely bring himself to kill Haku as a boy. Haku literally had to beg him to do it. I don't think Haku's gender really factored into Naruto's decision making process there.

Naruto may have shown that "don't beat up girls" social conditioning exists in their culture, but he's also shown that he doesn't believe in it. It likely is only really followed by civilians since I'm pretty sure the academy would do it's best to drill that stupid prejudice out of any prospective ninja's head.

And frankly the whole implied sex slavery bit in Haku's past that you allude to is still just as unsavory when he's a boy. His relationship with Zabuza has some very disturbing sexual undertones, I mean Haku literally flirts with Zabuza for Christ's sake.
 
what's the difference between killing a boy and a girl? For Naruto, at least?
 

thecuiy

Well-Known Member
I don't think Haku was actually ABLE to convince Naruto to kill him but I might be wrong. The guy just kinda jumped in front of Kakashi's Chidori
 

Knyght

The Collector
Naruto went in for the kill but Haku changed his mind and stopped him when he sensed/saw Zabuza in danger.
 

Knyght

The Collector
Just playing around with Naruto's development. It bug me long time.

Naruto doesn't learn the Shadow Clone Jutsu before Iruka arrives despite his hard work. It's only when Iruka's in danger that he pulls it off, starting the theme of protecting others being the path to true strength and giving an excuse for mastering a B-rank when he struggles with E-ranks. Early on, his clones dispel after one good hit and the numbers he creates are inconsistent but these problems resolve over time as his skill improves.

Genin are shown to have a more regular intake of D-rank and C-rank missions, undergo coordinated training as teams and use some new jutsu such as the Temporary Paralysis and Body Flicker. Just to emphasize that they have been learning things during their time as a genin than aren't limited to their clan jutsu, and that teams do end up spending a lot of time together.

Each time Naruto fights with his shadow clones, he would have unconscious flashes of insight from the jutsu's memory recall but not being particularly introspective, he wouldn't put much thought into it outside of the battle. For instance, after dispelling all of his clones in the genin test he intuitively knows where Kakashi had substituted himself to or, like Sasuke, grew better able to grasp Haku's movements between the mirrors from their shared experience. Just not enough to save him.

Instead of Zori and Waraji, Zabuza sends three genin subordinates to kidnap Tsunami/Inari. Just as Sasuke got to show off the fruits of his training against Zabuza's clones and Haku, Naruto shows off his own growth by defeating these three himself with surprise, shadow clones and chakra enhancement. Zori and Waraji are in the crowd that accompany Gatou to the bridge and get killed by Zabuza.

Possibly Kakashi teaches Team 7 the water walking exercise between the Land of Waves and the Chuunin Exams. It'd show that he continued to teach them, would make them better prepared for the exam and show them working as a team again. They'd only learn the very basics and Naruto would continue the training with Ebisu later.

In the Forest of Death, Naruto isn't separated from the team by Orochimaru and gets caught in the same terrifying experience as Sasuke and Sakura, so his willingess to fight back against Orochimaru looks less like ignorance of the danger and more like genuine courage. He's still knocked unconscious but wakes up in time to bear witness to Sasuke's curse seal. That way Naruto isn't ignorant of the important plot-related events and has some understanding of what's happening with his teammate, even if there's nothing he can actually do about it.

In the preliminaries, Naruto creates shadow clones to block Kiba before he can attack him and then launche the Naruto Combo, granting him victory. Nothing more, nothing less. -_-

Kakashi/Jiraiya clearly explain the memory recall function Naruto had discovered and while he's practising water walking and the Summoning Jutsu, he starts to take advantage of it. He uses them to come up with different maneuvers and tactics to deal with Neji and practice them in his place. So Naruto is able to accumulate the experience of that practice without being distracted from his main training. It highlights the "Heaven and Earth" motto that chuunin are meant to live up so Naruto is showing some actual forethought.

Jiraiya considers it surprisingly ingenious. No-one had thought of using shadow clones for training before. The closest thing to it is when a shadow clone acquires useful knowledge in the ninja's place such as from reading a scroll. Naruto puts on a better show against Neji in the first half of the fight but it still comes down his chakra points being blocked and using the Kyuubi's chakra to gain victory.

[Insert Naruto vs Kimimaro tweak here]

Naruto spent the timeskip taking missions with Jiraiya for training and to earn money instead of just travelling. His training had taught him to use the Rasengan one-handed and to create shadow clones with just the seal of confrontation and/or no hand-seals.

When Naruto's caught in Itachi's genjutsu, he remembers what Kakashi taught him and the rest of Team 7 about breaking genjutsu and successfully escapes it. Another example of the genin clearly learning skills from their jounins in Part 1 and better demonstrating Naruto's growth considering he kept getting caught in them before.

Kakashi tells Naruto about the Fourth Hokage's idea to create an elemental Rasengan. To create this seemingly impossible jutsu, the shadow clone training method is devised. Either Kakashi comes up with the idea based on what Jiraiya had told him about Naruto's training method or Naruto himself comes up with it before or during training, inspired by his motivation to surpass Sasuke.

[Insert Rasenshuriken/Senjutsu training tweak here]

Or something like this from one of my old posts: Naruto returns from the training trip having mastered wind nature transformation and the Rasengan. He's been trying to use the Wind Release Rasengan one-handed but the jutsu has several issues; it's hard to sustain, unstable and tears his arm up every time he uses it. He'd use it to kill the fake Itachi instead of the Big Ball Rasengan. After the Sasuke and Sasuke Arc, he works on perfecting it and after numerous failures, he realizes that instead of obstinately doing things alone (like Sasuke) he needs to get back to basics. So he whips out a shadow clone to share the load and hey ho, he's finally created the Wind Release Rasenshuriken. Which he later throws in Kakuzu's face.

Might be pushing things with that version though.

Anyway, Naruto's perfect mastery of senjutsu would be the result of Jiraiya teaching Naruto meditation during the timeskip to grant him better control of his chakra and emotions, his body being naturally adept at handling foreign energy because of the constant influx of the Kyuubi's chakra and the fact that he just seriously worked his ass off for a more believable length of time.

And there'd be glimpses of Naruto continuing to use shadow clones for training such as improving chakra control, perfecting his jutsu, maybe mastering other chakra natures for alternate Rasengans, shortening his Sage Mode's activation speed and lengthening its duration. It wouldn't have a huge impact overall but it'd show that the training method isn't being ignored after the Hidan and Kakuzu Arc.

I feel like I should come up with something about his chakra modes and whatnot...oh well. This post is big enough as is.
 

NamelessOne

Well-Known Member
My tweak: Naruto learned not only Kage Bunshin, but Bunshin Daibakuha as well.

PS. knight504 you should write your own fic :)
 

Knyght

The Collector
Coming up with ideas is so much easier than writing them into a story. :rip1:
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
Teaching Naruto Bunshin Daibakuha would be more than just a tweak. It would change everything. Naruto would never use any other jutsu ever again. No one would be able to stand against his army of thousands of suicide bombing clones. He'd be unstoppable.
 

AJ_Katon

Well-Known Member
Altered Nova said:
Teaching Naruto Bunshin Daibakuha would be more than just a tweak. It would change everything. Naruto would never use any other jutsu ever again. No one would be able to stand against his army of thousands of suicide bombing clones. He'd be unstoppable.
Oh the hilarious lulz. :D You think he'd rack up a bigger explosion count than Lina Inverse?
 

MastaofBitches

Well-Known Member
AJ_Katon said:
Altered Nova said:
Teaching Naruto Bunshin Daibakuha would be more than just a tweak. It would change everything. Naruto would never use any other jutsu ever again. No one would be able to stand against his army of thousands of suicide bombing clones. He'd be unstoppable.
Oh the hilarious lulz. :D You think he'd rack up a bigger explosion count than Lina Inverse?
Number of clones = number of explosions. Naruto created more Kage Bushin over the 699 chapters of manga, plus Anime filler, than Lina Inverse has explosions.

So I'd say yeah, he would have.
 

Knyght

The Collector
Now combine Clone Great Explosion with shadow clones using Sage Mode, Kyuubi Chakra Mode, Bijuu Mode, Kyuubi Sage Mode or Six Paths Sage Mode...
 

MastaofBitches

Well-Known Member
Madara's plan would have failed because there was no more EC.
 

atlas_hugged

Well-Known Member
Altered Nova said:
Teaching Naruto Bunshin Daibakuha would be more than just a tweak. It would change everything. Naruto would never use any other jutsu ever again. No one would be able to stand against his army of thousands of suicide bombing clones. He'd be unstoppable.
I'd imagine there'd be some interesting scenes with Deidara. He'd either love him for sharing in his art or hate him for rivaling his genius in it.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member


It's not that big an explosion... that's mostly water. Hell Itachi's just standing there, a few meters away from it, chill as f*ck.

And for all we know, the power of the jutsu's explosion could even be fixed, so Naruto wouldn't be able to supercharge the hell out of them.

Rasenshuriken has more kill, IMO.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
Remember how many clones naruto pulled out of his ass against Kinimaru? Or the clone chainwhips at VoTE? Now image all of them exploded when dispelled.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member


...OK, so Naruto (and Kurama) were only responsible for half of that, but still.

Look, I was a member of the "Give Naruto Exploding Clones and make Deidara feel impotent" movement for a long time, but, well, Power Creep.
 
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