Naruto Rereading the Manga

[Altered Nova]

But then, the Six Paths Yin/Yang Power and Six Paths chakra aren't necessarily the same thing, and Hagoromo did get those markings on his hands back after the Six Paths - Chibaku Tensei. So, yeah, I guess Naruto's uber-healing powers are gone.

Yeah this is how I interpreted Naruto and Sasuke losing the seal markings on their hands but keeping some of the other perks that came with them.

Naruto still has Six Paths Senjutsu, but he lost the Six Paths Yang Power so no more uber healing (and maybe also Truth-Seeking Balls? Does he ever use those again after sealing Kaguya?).

And Sasuke still has his Rinnegan, but he lost Six Paths Yin Power so no more "black chidori" (the 'black chidori' he used against Naruto was actually an Amaterasu chidori).

 

[Knyght]

Naruto had three Truth Seeking Balls left when he fought Sasuke. They don't even get destroyed or anything as he's shown with them even during his final move in Six Paths Sage Mode so it seems like he just never bothers using them again after that fight.

 

[Altered Nova]

Huh, you're right. Naruto summoned three truth-seeking early in his fight with Sasuke and threw them at him. They were either dodged or blocked by Susanoo (is it even possible for Susanoo to block them without using senjutsu?) and then a few pages later he has three more balls while firing off a bijuudama and again when he's merging into the six-armed Kurama avatar. And then they are never seen again. The hell?

I felt like Naruto must have lost the ability to create them, because why they hell wouldn't he ever use them again? They are ridiculously powerful - they are practically indestructible, can be controlled telekinetically, can explode like bijuudama, and they disintegrate stuff like dust release! I honestly expected that after the epilogue timeskip Naruto would have learned how to shape and manipulate them on the same level as Obito did and they would be a core part of his fighting style. Instead, he doesn't even summon them anymore. Why?

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Maybe the hash arm messed it up somehow?

Or, more likely, the "understanding of the universe" that allowed for their creation was a result of the Six Paths Yang, and without it said understanding faded over time. So, say, a few days after the right with Sasuke, Naruto wakes up one day and can't make them anymore.

But some of the experience sticks with Naruto, resulting in him being able to improve his chakra control to the point where he can use Tsunade/Sakura's technique, even with Kurama's chakra.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

maybe he just never needed them again?

 

[Knyght]

Spoiler

This jutsu would be a lot more useful in the hands of his teammate who could wrap himself around the opponent and then absorb their chakra. But Sasuke probably would have lost his fight in that case.

Same applies to Zaku and Dosu actually. Arming Zaku with a Resonating Echo Speaker would make him twice as dangerous.

Speaking of...

Spoiler

Zaku has air cannons surgically implanted in his arms. Dosu has a weaponized speaker strapped to his arm.

Kin has needles with bells attached. Do the bells actually do anything? No. She can just ring them like the little bells that they are.

The discrepancy between Kin and her teammates is embarassing. The anime had the right idea by introducing the idea of sound genjutsu.

Spoiler

The way that those bugs is literally bursting out of Shino suggests that they don't have specific exits dotted around his body and just tear their way out wherever they are. Presumably there's something going on that prevents him from feeling pain and that they can repair the damage they cause.

Spoiler

This scene is quite bizzare in just how ignorant Konoha ninja are of their own clans. If it was one of the foreign teams have this discussion then it'd make perfect sense. But having it come from the more experienced Konoha genin - even if they hadn't worked with an Aburame themselves - and Gai talking about the "legend" of Konoha's bug users is just weird. The same happens with the Hyuuga who you'd think are pretty famous in their own village.

Spoiler

I'm trying to think of a practical reason for Akatsuki to wear nail polish and I'm coming up empty. Wearing a hat and coat to signify their allegiance is one thing, nail polish for all their members is another.

Spoiler

I've just twigged why Sakura did the biting thing. Her hands were full keeping kunai lodged in one arm and she saw that he was about her to throw her off with his air cannons, so she bit him to keep her out of its range. Unfortunately, she couldn't really do anything else from there. Zaku had just enough leverage to whack her over the head but not much more until he gets her off of him.

Spoiler

Kakuzu very nearly screwed over Akatsuki right there.

Spoiler

I wonder if losing his mass to fix Sasuke had a major effect on Juugo's fighting ability at that point in the story. He was practically a child in terms of size ever since then so he'd probably be physically weaker and slower than usual and he might have even had less chakra overall.

 

[Altered Nova]

Misumi explained that he's using chakra to animate his own body after dislocating his limbs - that is, it's a sustained jutsu that burning chakra for as long as he's being all noodly. I would guess that the two abilities would interfere with each other and it's not possible to keep that jutsu going and absorb chakra simultaneously. So if Yoroi knew that jutsu he'd probably have to go limp when he started absorbing chakra and the victim could throw him off.

Wouldn't the Resonating Echo Speaker be redundant for Zaku? He says that he can control both sound and air pressure with his implants. Presumably he can already do anything that Dosu can do with that speaker, he just prefers to use air pressure instead because it's got a much greater range and blast radius.

About the Aburame clan, I imagine that even other Konoha ninja don't know much about them because they normally keep to themselves. Their jutsu is so creepy that it probably isolates them socially (which would explain why Shino is so quiet and withdrawn) and they therefore don't associate much with outsiders. And judging by the all Aburame team that confronted Konan during Pain's invasion of Konoha, it's probably uncommon for them to work in teams with ninja from outside the clan.

 

[Knyght]

Mmm, I doubt Zaku can do anything other tham point and shoot with his air/sound waves. The sonic waves might burst eardrums as a byproduct but not particularly target the inner ear in a precision attack like Dosu's. And both of them would have been better off with air cannons in that case.

It'd be stranger for the Aburame not to regularly work with other ninja considering most of them, like Shino, would have been teamed up with whoever upon graduation for an indefinite time period and even later ninja don't typically choose their own teammates are assigned to teams instead. Not to mention just how inefficient it would be to put together teams made of individuals with practically the same skillset unless there's a specific mission that needs more than one of them. Those Aburame were likely already together before confronting Konan or near enough to join up together to counter her jutsu with theirs; the resistance to that invasion wasn't particularly organized from what we saw.

I just assumed that most Konoha ninja would know about all of the clans before graduating, both from their classmates and from actually being taught about them. But it seems like it's not something that's deliberately shared even in the most general sense, just what they get from rumours and working alongside specific clan members.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

The abilities of the Oro-Genins were from body modification... it's likely that modifying the body for more than one ability is just too much.

Kin without body modifications was likely to throw off people, as three genin from a minor village all with body-mods might have arised some questions.

For the Aburame and Hyuga... it's one of the problem of the Ninja world: nobody ever share informations, EVER, unless there is a specific need on the spot. It's Need To Know for EVERYTHING and something that has probably been passed to the kids, too, that sharing informations is bad.

 

[Altered Nova]

In retrospect, I think Lee and Gai are just unusually ignorant (they are both pretty weird people). Neji is only a genin but he seems to be pretty well informed about the basics of how the Aburame Clan operates. Like you said, it would be strange for the average Konoha ninja to not have even the faintest clue about a famous and powerful clan from their own village.

People being ignorant of the Hyuuga's bloodline can be chalked up to them being secretive as fuck about it. Because it's super easy to steal and because they're terrified about others learning about the blind spot.

Also probably because they're worried that paranoid ninja and the general public would react badly if they knew the clan could see through walls and clothing from miles away and had to just take their word that they weren't abusing it. I know I'd be nervous if there were a group of people in my village who could be watching my every move and action 24/7 and there was nothing I could do to hide or even detect it.

 

[Knyght]

Spoiler

Kishimoto couldn't seem to make up his mind about Oto's uniform.

First you have this one which looks different from the front but very similar to Konoha's from any other angle including a circular symbol on its back. So similar, in fact, that he keeps forgetting not to include the spiral on the sleeve.

Then you have the bodysuit and tunic thing the invaders were wearing. And the Sound Four who wear something similar but with giant ropes and that not Yin-Yang symbol. Finally he goes back to something like the original design but with balaclavas and vests without pockets or symbols.

Spoiler

So Naruto spent two days mastering nature transformation, one day to reach this point and then another six days to reach the Rasenshuriken that he used against Kakuzu.

Using Kakashi's numbers, Naruto spent 33'600 hours training with shadow clones in total which is about 3 years and 10 months. But that's ignoring sleep, breaks and a funeral.

Say we knock off 6 hours per day to be a bit more realistic and that's about 2 years and 10 months instead. Knock off 12 hours and its around 1 year and 11 months.

 

[Altered Nova]

Are you sure Orochimaru is wearing an Oto-uniform in that scene? I assumed he was just wearing his old Konoha uniform for nostalgia's sake, which would explain why it has the Uzumaki spiral on the sleeve.

I wouldn't really say that Kishimoto couldn't make up his mind about Oto's uniform. I'd say he just liked to create new uniform designs. The major villages each have several different uniform designs as well that you can see in flashbacks.

 

[Knyght]

He was wearing the standard uniform when he defected whereas this is the same outfit he was wearing back in the fighting room though he's gone back to his original face and hair. The spiral's only visible on his sleeve in that one panel during that scene but missing every other time its shown from the right angle. Technically it could be the uniform he once wore but it would have meant that the vest has been redesigned (or at least the front since the back really does seem to have Konoha's symbol on it) and the sleeve spiral had been taken off. Just looks like a couple of small artistic errors that got overlooked.

Wow, hyperlinking is a pain right now.

 

[Yorae Rasante]

I always assumed he was pretendint to be Kabuto's jonin instead of the sound team...

 

[Knyght]

No, he's wearing a Oto headband. Kabuto's sensei is the guy in the top right.

 

[Altered Nova]

Yeah it's gotta be art errors. It makes no sense for Orochimaru to wear a flak jacket with the Uzumaki spiral that's standard for Konoha uniforms when he's impersonating the sound genin team's jounin sensei and is clearly wearing an Oto headband.

 

[Knyght]

Spoiler

If this is a puny swamp from when Jiraiya can't even control his chakra properly, imagine what a senjutsu version would look like.

Spoiler

In another world this could have lead to Sakura conducting forbidden experiments on herself to get Wood Release.

Spoiler

Fun fact: Sasuke isn't actually shown using his Sharingan for almost this entire battle. Every panel showing his face has his regular black eyes except for right after landing the Chidori where it's retroactively drawn in and quickly switched off again. Presumably he switched it on just for the duration of the run itself.

Spoiler

Fewer Uchiha? Interesting. You would think that no longer being inpdendent clan and having so many members working primarily in Konoha itself would help increase their numbers.

Spoiler

Genjutsu is conspicuously absent from that report.

I remember it once being said that genjutsu would make more sense as a subset of ninjutsu given how it's more difficult and less common than taijutsu and ninjutsu. I find myself agreeing that we could have gone with Illusion Ninjutsu.

Hell, you could probably remove Genjutsu altogether and replace them with ninjutsu that essentially have the same effects e.g. feathers that cause people to fall asleep, an area of total darkness. Or just the Sharingan's Eye of Hypnosis as the only type of illusion in the Narutoverse since the Uchiha have a monopoly on it anyway.

(I wonder why they didn't just translate "Senjutsu" as "Tactics" when no English reader is likely to understand what it means since it's never used again in that context.)

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Genjutsu are a stereotypical type of ninja technique, Kishimoto just used them and then tied them to ninjutsu.

That said, it's an extremely specific(and difficult) type of ninjutsu, so much it's generally treated as a different type of technique in first place, even more than Medical Ninjutsu

 

[Altered Nova]

Genjutsu being a subset of Ninjutsu makes sense. Yang release jutsu are still ninjutsu, other yin release jutsu are still considered ninjutsu, so why should genjutsu be so unique and separate?

 

[ankokudaishogun]

We don't actually know if ALL Genjutsu are Yin-Release.

That said, Jiraiya stated explicitly Genjutsu is actually High-Level Ninjutsu

 

[Knyght]

Eh, I think that's a translation thing. Viz translation says "ninja technique" while the fan translation only says "jutsu".

DB4 says it primarily falls under Yin Release, the exception likely being weirdness like Izanagi and Infinite Tsukuyomi.

 

[Knyght]

Spoiler

Saying that the brothers united the Uchiha Clan would imply that it was divided in the first place.

Spoiler

"...unite one clan after another."

We saw it happen between the Senju and the Uchiha but I wonder if it was actually quite common for ninja clans to one another and possibly be integrated into the winner's.

Spoiler

Quite different to the official story. I'm not sure if that's ignorance or deliberate.

Spoiler

How did it get all the names? How much destruction did Kaguya cause in that form and for how long?

Spoiler

That little earth speech sounds almost religious. Something to do with their Will of Stone?

Spoiler

Kakashi using chakra to cut the wire like scissors. I like little tricks like that.

 

[Altered Nova]

Spoiler

Saying that the brothers united the Uchiha Clan would imply that it was divided in the first place.

Perhaps there was serious disagreement, possibly even civil war, over interpretations of the Stone Tablet? The few quotes we hear from it do sound very vague and poetic, like religious text. There likely would be multiple ideas within the clan of what those "instructions" actually meant.

Oh, fanfic idea. Maybe Madara was the leader of the faction that interpreted the stone tablet the way Black Zetsu wanted them to read it so Kaguya could be revived, so Black Zetsu manipulated things to help him rise to power and unite the clan.

Also, the Mangekyou had never before been seen among the Uchiha? But wasn't Indra born with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan? Does he mean that the power had faded away before Indra's descendants came together and formally created the Uchiha Clan?

Spoiler

"...unite one clan after another."

We saw it happen between the Senju and the Uchiha but I wonder if it was actually quite common for ninja clans to one another and possibly be integrated into the winner's.

Maybe this is why the Uchiha have an affinity for fire ninjutsu that is seemingly unrelated to their kekkei genkai. Perhaps they intermarried with a powerful clan of fire users. That could also explain why so few Uchiha actually awaken their ocular power compared to the Hyuuga, because their bloodline is less pure.

Spoiler

Quite different to the official story. I'm not sure if that's ignorance or deliberate.

That's a good question. If it's intentional, then for what purpose? Why would Obito want Sasuke to believe that Madara had always been opposed to the Uchiha-Senju alliance and was overruled rather than the truth that he agreed to it at first but later changed his mind when he came to believe that Tobirama would become Hokage and seek to destroy his clan?

Spoiler

How did it get all the names? How much destruction did Kaguya cause in that form and for how long?

This page certainly hints at a fascinating story. Now I'm imagining that Kaguya terrorized the world for years, possibly even decades, and Hagoromo and Hamura went on an epic adventure around the world, freeing people from the Infinite Tsukuyomi, building a team of allies, creating his famous artifacts and otherwise gathering up the knowledge/power needed to defeat and seal her away. Kind of like a ninja twist on the plot of Final Fantasy 10.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Uchiha being composed by multiple internal factions is interesting- given they are prone to strong emotions, it actually make sense.
Then charismatic strong leaders appeared and they did bundle together(though I suspect the presence of the horribly overpowered Hashirama might have been an even bigger motivation)
Also, I wouldn't trust a word said by Tobito. Even if HE thought he was telling the truth, Madara and\or Black Zetsu likely lied a lot to him.
Madara never letting go the Hathred was useful to Tobito's narrative for Sasuke: if he told him Madara and Hashirama actually were mostly on the same wave-length and everything did fall out because of long-lasting grudges, Sasuke could have decided to re-join Naruto as the idea of the mutual village DID work, if far from perfectly- it would become just a matter of "doing things right".
Also, the "official history" seems to suggest the Uchiha were the main force behind the creation of the Village, with the Senju joining them, while from the Hashirama flashback it's the reverse. it might have been to "keep the Uchiha happy" while not giving them any power.

About rallying different clans together:
It's quite likely that the bigger clans had a number of satellite clans, probaly depending on the geographical zone of influence, too.
For example, a Clan A might have a strong presence in Country X. They get defeated by the Uchiha but instead of being annihilated, they accept to become their underling, keeping their position as Country X top dog but sending part of the gains to the Uchiha, as well as assisting the Uchiha clan in various ways.
Smaller clans might be directly absorbed in the Bigger clans, especially if they had good genetics.

I actually suspect the Sarutobi+InoShikaCho Clans is somehow different by being a "true" alliance between three clans under the Sarutobi clan as leader.
A sort of small scale Village: they were independent but coordinated together for maximum efficency.



also, fanfic idea: when Madara tells Hashirama the only ways he'd join in on the Village Idea, a Random Senju kills Tobirama because the Senju are tired of fighting, too, and they all did know Tobirama's "skeptikism" of the Uchiha would become a problem if they were ever to join in a Village

 

[AoMythology]

Which Hokage died first, the First or the Second?

And before you say it's obvious, remember that Sarutobi looked like a teen when Tobirama died, but became Hokage at a later age than Minato (probably 24).

I'd say that the Shodai retook the mantle for a few years.