The Avengers *sigh*

DhampyrX2

Well-Known Member
Part of me thought it was funny and part of me thought "Why the Hell would Ultron be interested in anything approaching romance?" Even with the new movie that was one case where Loki would have made more sense. Especially if they could have talked Hiddleston into doing the skit. You could have even spliced in the "Puny God" scene after the breakup.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
DhampyrX2 said:
Part of me thought it was funny and part of me thought "Why the Hell would Ultron be interested in anything approaching romance?" Even with the new movie that was one case where Loki would have made more sense. Especially if they could have talked Hiddleston into doing the skit. You could have even spliced in the "Puny God" scene after the breakup.
Big spoilers for the film below, so to anyone who has not seen it, you probably shouldn't be reading this thread to begin with, and this post assumes anyone reading either doesn't care about spoilers, or has already seen the film. You have been warned.

He did appear to have a bit of a liking for Wanda and Pietro on some level.

It was a decent movie at least and I really didn't see much of anything that didn't make sense. A few things could have been more detailed, but there was never a moment where I was confused about how something came about.

There was only one twist I wasn't expecting to be honest. Quicksilver getting 'killed'.

I know he's not really dead because him "dying" has happened in the comics and his accelerated metabolism kept him alive and healed him from what has appeared to be death in the past. I've little doubt he can easily be resurrected the same way here if they want him in another movie.

He's not Wolverine or anything, but I seriously doubt he's really dead. He'll probably have amnesia when he pops back up again.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
Yeah quicksilver dying really shocked me too. I also wasn't expecting the Vision, because I'm not a huge comic book reader and I forgot he even existed. I honestly thought that Captain America was going to be proven right and putting an A.I. into Ultron's ultimate organic android body would be a huge mistake.

I loved the movie, I thought it was even better than the first Avengers movie. I liked how dark and gritty it was, but without losing the idealism. My favorite part was how the Avengers spent as much time saving people and evacuating the city as they did actually fighting Ultron's army, it was a very effective indirect 'take that' at Man of Steel and Superman's casual disregard for civilian casualties. the Hulk vs. Iron Man fight was also fantastic.

The only thing that confused me about the movie was the subplot about how Ultron was trying to hack the Pentagon to steal nuclear launch codes and was being thwarted by a mysterious unknown ally. In the real world any systems that can be used to launch a nuclear missile are kept offline, on extremely outdated technology, and require direct human intervention to activate, precisely to prevent that kind of apocalyptic cyber attack. So that whole subplot doesn't make any sense, unless the MCU US government is completely fucking retarded and has completely automated their nuclear launch systems as well as hooked them up to the internet.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
Altered Nova said:
Yeah quicksilver dying really shocked me too. I also wasn't expecting the Vision, because I'm not a huge comic book reader and I forgot he even existed. I honestly thought that Captain America was going to be proven right and putting an A.I. into Ultron's ultimate organic android body would be a huge mistake.

I loved the movie, I thought it was even better than the first Avengers movie. I liked how dark and gritty it was, but without losing the idealism. My favorite part was how the Avengers spent as much time saving people and evacuating the city as they did actually fighting Ultron's army, it was a very effective indirect 'take that' at Man of Steel and Superman's casual disregard for civilian casualties. the Hulk vs. Iron Man fight was also fantastic.

The only thing that confused me about the movie was the subplot about how Ultron was trying to hack the Pentagon to steal nuclear launch codes and was being thwarted by a mysterious unknown ally. In the real world any systems that can be used to launch a nuclear missile are kept offline, on extremely outdated technology, and require direct human intervention to activate, precisely to prevent that kind of apocalyptic cyber attack. So that whole subplot doesn't make any sense, unless the MCU US government is completely fucking retarded and has completely automated their nuclear launch systems as well as hooked them up to the internet.
We're talking about something that is probably built by Stark or some other fictional weapons system created by a comic book genius. They probably could launch them remotely in the MU.

Even if not, he was only after the codes. Once he had them figured out he could just attack any facility and manually input them with one of his many bodies.

Killing Quicksilver may have had to do with the issues between Fox and Disney as well. Wanda is more of an Avengers character than an X-men character, where as Quicksilver is more prominent in the X-books.

Both first appeared in X-men, but I believe Wanda spends a lot more time in the pages of Avengers.

Still say he's an easily resurrected character, so the effect of killing has considerably less impact. This sort of thing has happened to him several times in the comics. I doubt his death is permanent, but he'll probably stay gone until it's convenient to bring him back. I don't expect to see him until after phase 3, at the end of it at the earliest, and I doubt it considering the moves slated to release so far.

Vision wasn't surprising. He was on a lot of promotional material for the film, posters and such. I've also read a lot of Avengers, so I was familiar with him and his role. He and Wanda will be an item most likely in the Infinity War films. They'll probably set that up with Cap 3.

I was surprised they gave him the Mind Gem. As I recall the gem in his forehead is called a Solar Gem and has nothing to do with the Infinity Stones. He's solar powered and can convert solar energy into beams and such. They've obviously set him up to get taken out by Thanos.

I'm wondering how they'll play Infinity Wars. As I recall, the Avengers don't really beat him. He just sort of gives up and lets Adam Warlock walk off with the Infinity Gauntlet and shenanigans ensue. He splits into three different entities, expelling the good and bad side of himself to become totally logical, the bad side is called Magnus, who is the real big bad of Infinity War, and the other called Goddess who is his good side. He's beaten because of something to do with a fake reality gem that pretty much permanently breaks the gauntlet and makes it so the gems can never be used together again. Thanos is the secret guardian of the reality gem as I recall. The MCU seems to be setting up something entirely different as a lot of players are missing as of yet, including Doom and Adam Warlock. I'm guessing they're going to have Thanos as the actual big bad instead of just Adam Warlock's bad side manifested by the gauntlet.

It's a really weird story and I'm not so sure the average moviegoer is going to be able to keep up. I'm guessing they're going for something more straightforward for movie audiences.

I suppose they could still do that, introduce Adam Warlock in Guardians 2 and all. I think they're taking a completely different take on it though with Thanos possibly gathering the gems and using the gauntlet himself.
 

jakkuzarippa

Well-Known Member
Do you happen to know where they're going with GotG2? I've heard the sub header GotG: War of Kings, so I'm not sure if they're going with the Skrull-Kree stuff (which may be dealt with in Inhumans), the Annihilation crossover from back in 2006 and Richie Rider stepping up as Nova Prime.

Or if they're going to go in a completely new direction which is far more simplified than the chaotic mess some of the crossovers have been, but still borrow elements from them and simplify them for a 2 hour movie.


Also, regarding Quicksilver, I concur with Cotrabardus, he's far more prominent in the X-Men series than the Avengers, so maybe there was a under-the-table deal with Fox to use him for this movie only? Recall, there was no mention of Erik Lehnsherrr or mutants, rather, the twins had a somewhat modified history as orphans who were "augmented" by Baron Strucker. Curious to see when/how Marvel(Disney) acquires the rights to X-Men/FF back from Fox. As far as I know, Spiderman/X-Men/FF are the only major licenses not in-house, Blade/Daredevil/Ghost Rider are back.

Also, this is interesting.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
jakkuzarippa said:
Do you happen to know where they're going with GotG2? I've heard the sub header GotG: War of Kings, so I'm not sure if they're going with the Skrull-Kree stuff (which may be dealt with in Inhumans), the Annihilation crossover from back in 2006 and Richie Rider stepping up as Nova Prime.

Or if they're going to go in a completely new direction which is far more simplified than the chaotic mess some of the crossovers have been, but still borrow elements from them and simplify them for a 2 hour movie.


Also, regarding Quicksilver, I concur with Cotrabardus, he's far more prominent in the X-Men series than the Avengers, so maybe there was a under-the-table deal with Fox to use him for this movie only? Recall, there was no mention of Erik Lehnsherrr or mutants, rather, the twins had a somewhat modified history as orphans who were "augmented" by Baron Strucker. Curious to see when/how Marvel(Disney) acquires the rights to X-Men/FF back from Fox. As far as I know, Spiderman/X-Men/FF are the only major licenses not in-house, Blade/Daredevil/Ghost Rider are back.

Also, this is interesting.
Not sure exactly what story they're going with in GotG 2. They do need to introduce Adam Warlock, and he did make a [sort of] cameo in GotG.

They have Spider-man in joint custody.

It's also worth noting that Wanda doesn't even get a mention in Days of Future Past. It's just Quicksilver and she's never even brought up.

Fox isn't giving up X-men or FF. As a company they don't get along with Disney and they will hold them hostage for as long as they can.

Plus there's the fact that the X-men movies do pretty well. FF not so much, they're likely to give them up first though. It will likely cost them Marvel more than the characters are really worth to pry them away, so I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.
 

H-Man

Random phantom.
Yanno, with the Tesseract being the Space Gem, the Orb being the Power Gem, and this movie having the Mind Gem, which one would suit the Aether?
 

jakkuzarippa

Well-Known Member
Contrabardus said:
jakkuzarippa said:
Do you happen to know where they're going with GotG2? I've heard the sub header GotG: War of Kings, so I'm not sure if they're going with the Skrull-Kree stuff (which may be dealt with in Inhumans), the Annihilation crossover from back in 2006 and Richie Rider stepping up as Nova Prime.

Or if they're going to go in a completely new direction which is far more simplified than the chaotic mess some of the crossovers have been, but still borrow elements from them and simplify them for a 2 hour movie.


Also, regarding Quicksilver, I concur with Cotrabardus, he's far more prominent in the X-Men series than the Avengers, so maybe there was a under-the-table deal with Fox to use him for this movie only? Recall, there was no mention of Erik Lehnsherrr or mutants, rather, the twins had a somewhat modified history as orphans who were "augmented" by Baron Strucker. Curious to see when/how Marvel(Disney) acquires the rights to X-Men/FF back from Fox. As far as I know, Spiderman/X-Men/FF are the only major licenses not in-house, Blade/Daredevil/Ghost Rider are back.

Also, this is interesting.
Not sure exactly what story they're going with in GotG 2. They do need to introduce Adam Warlock, and he did make a [sort of] cameo in GotG.

They have Spider-man in joint custody.

It's also worth noting that Wanda doesn't even get a mention in Days of Future Past. It's just Quicksilver and she's never even brought up.

Fox isn't giving up X-men or FF. As a company they don't get along with Disney and they will hold them hostage for as long as they can.

Plus there's the fact that the X-men movies do pretty well. FF not so much, they're likely to give them up first though. It will likely cost them Marvel more than the characters are really worth to pry them away, so I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.

Ah yes, forgot about Sony panicking and wising up to the fact that 2 origin films and 5 movies in 12 years was a supremely bad idea. Will be interesting to see the as-of-yet-unnamed Spiderman movie go through the stages.

And wow, I didn't know that about Wanda and DoFP. But that's because I've avoided the X-Men movie franchise like the plague since X3. Actually, not true. I did see X-Men: First Class, but was hardly impressed with that either. Besides, I for one am glad Marvel was missing its movie powerhouses. Without these 3, we were able to get Captain America/Iron Man, which became powerhouses in their own right, and then led to Phase 2 stuff such as Guardians/Antman.



H-Man said:
Yanno, with the Tesseract being the Space Gem, the Orb being the Power Gem, and this movie having the Mind Gem, which one would suit the Aether?
Apparently, the Aether is the Reality Gem in the MCU.

Makes sense that the Time and Soul gems haven't been revealed yet. Time sounds fundamentally broken, hence perfect for the end-boss fight (Infinity Wars). Soul feels like a Deus-ex Machina waiting to happen, probably involving either Adam Warlock or Captain America.
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
jakkuzarippa said:
Apparently, the Aether is the Reality Gem in the MCU.

Makes sense that the Time and Soul gems haven't been revealed yet. Time sounds fundamentally broken, hence perfect for the end-boss fight (Infinity Wars). Soul feels like a Deus-ex Machina waiting to happen, probably involving either Adam Warlock or Captain America.
FF isn't a powerhouse for Marvel and hasn't been for decades. X-men and Spider-Man are their big books.

Thanos should have the Reality Gem, Aether is probably the Time Gem or a fake Reality Gem.

Adam Warlock should have the Soul gem.

That is assuming that they stay with the comics in that regard. I don't see why they wouldn't seeing as Thanos's fake out is such a big part of Infinity War. It's the reason Magus was defeated in the end.

They might do a switch up and have Thanos be the guardian of the Time Gem instead. That would be interesting I suppose. There's a very good chance Thanos already has one of them and that one of the gems is fake.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if we get Magus as the big bad of Infinity War and not Thanos despite all the build up that's been going on around Thanos from the previous films.

Edit: It occurs to me that they might have split the movie up because the first movie might be Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet storyline, and the second could be the Adam Warlock portion of the story where he splits up into Magus, Goddess, and the emotionless Adam Warlock.

Then again, it may just be a mistitled Infinity Gauntlet and save the Adam Warlock segment until the end of Stage 4? That would make sense, but they'd have to give it a different title. Infinity Gauntlet, maybe? That would be an interesting turn of events and would allow for a couple of movies for the Magus portion of the film at a later date, either segment would be difficult to do in a single film.
 

H-Man

Random phantom.
Avengers 1 had Loki be the envoy of an intergalactic/interdimensional empire while wielding an Infinity Gem to conquer Earth, and Avengers 2 had Ultron and Vision be spawns of an Infinity Gem who wanted to create a nuclear winter and kill off humanity.

I 'unno, I just don't see this as needing to be too comic-friendly. I'll give it time, but if they don't even hint to Magnus during Phase 3, we're probably getting Thanos as the Big Bad as he's been treated. And isn't that good enough?
 

Contrabardus

Well-Known Member
H-Man said:
Avengers 1 had Loki be the envoy of an intergalactic/interdimensional empire while wielding an Infinity Gem to conquer Earth, and Avengers 2 had Ultron and Vision be spawns of an Infinity Gem who wanted to create a nuclear winter and kill off humanity.

I 'unno, I just don't see this as needing to be too comic-friendly. I'll give it time, but if they don't even hint to Magnus during Phase 3, we're probably getting Thanos as the Big Bad as he's been treated. And isn't that good enough?
The more I think about it, the more I see Adam Warlock taking off with the Infinity Gauntlet at the end of Infinity War part 1, and Magus being the big bad for part 2. That's actually a pretty good explanation for why it's split up into two movies.

They need something, and Magneto and Dr. Doom are both tied up with Fox. Pretty sure that Fox also has Galactus.

I'd love to see Mandarin show up in Iron Man 4 where we find out Ben Kingsley was just a decoy. That totally makes sense for the character, but I also don't see him as taking big bad status for a big event. Not so sure RDJ is up for another standalone film though. I think Cap 3 might be it for him having a big part, and any future appearances might be in the form of cameos.

Thor will be gone for a bit after Ragnarok I think, possibly being resurrected as another actor. Cap will probably die in Civil War as Evans has said he wants to do other things. Bucky will likely end up taking over the role as he did in the comics.

Zemo is in Cap 3, so he's a possible Avengers villain in the future. Kang is a good possibility too, as well as Norman Osborn. He's had a decent stint as an MU big bad. Not to mention we've not seen any Skrulls yet.

Unless they kick Magnus to Avengers 4 or ignore him completely, I'm betting Phase 4 will be Secret Invasion, with the one not used being Phase 5. Secret Invasion will take up a whole phase as the Skrulls infiltrate the MCU. It segways into Dark Reign nicely, so there's a good chance it'll be Secret Invasion.

Secret Wars is another possibility, but they can probably get that out of the way with just one movie to be honest and it doesn't really need an entire phase to set it up. In fact, they could do it during the Secret Invasion phase if they wanted.
 

da_fox2279

California Crackpot
Saw the film today, finally. Eckhart was pretty good as Pietro, better that DoFP's version. (Though DoFP did have the better outfit.) Olsen was surpisingly good as well. Really nailed the Pietro/Wanda family bit.

I wasn't really wowed by her performance in Godzilla, but here she was much better. Probably helped that she had more to do, here.

Very surprised by the Banner/Romanoff bit. I knew there was going to be something, but this? Came completely out of left field, for me. Was really hoping they'd be given a chance at the end of the film, but alas...

The mindfuck scenes were well done; I honestly felt sad for Cap, and Natasha... That's some fucked up shit. And I'm surprised she offered to run off with Bruce. I guess she was more affected by what Wanda did to her than was apparent.

Clint was much more fleshed out here, and I was glad to see it. He seemed like a Ultimate!Hawkeye mixed with 616!Hawkeye's snark. Also? Cute kids. (Loved it when Natasha jokingly called the unborn Barton 'traitor'. :)) The Hawkeye/Widow Bro'ship was strong here, and I liked it.

The party scene was cool. Poor Rhodey; he gets no respect from the 'real' superheroes... Maria Hill was in fine form, given her little screen time compared to the others.

Funniest moment: Tony apologizing after knocking out the Hulk's tooth.

Ultron was very well done, both as being acted by Spader and in design. I'm kind of hoping we see him again, in some form.

Vision... well designed. Bettany really brought him to life, did justice to the role, IMO. And kudos to the scriptwriters for the way they had Ultron create the Vision. I simply did not expect an organic android.

And Wanda pointing out that Ultron was essentially Tony Stark in digital form... well, now we know how Civil War is going to start...

Amazing special effects, especially with the city in the final act. And the new Avengers HQ was neat looking. I did love the final scene, with Cap and Natasha looking down on the 'new recruits'. But dammit Whedon, you cut Cap off at the best part! ... Ah well, there's always Infinity War...

All in all, great movie, great acting, great special effects... Whedon did an amazing job with this one, and so did the actors. I can't wait for the blu-ray, just for the missing hour of footage.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
I loved how the Vision's outfit was basically identical to the comic book version, in all it's goofy, brightly colored, gaudy caped glory. Really makes him stand out from the more realistic outfits all the other heroes are wearing, and it really emphasizes how noble, idealistic and otherworldly he is. I wouldn't have been able to take, say, quicksilver or scarlet witch seriously if they'd showed up in their silly comic book costumes, but somehow colorful spandex just works for the Vision.
 

H-Man

Random phantom.
Probably because of the whole otherworldly thing. We know he's not human in many aspects.

Also, his head is red with a glowy gem. That's gotta count.

On another note: there's been some controversy regarding comments by Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner about how Black Widow's a slut. That's relevant [and lame], but what really caught my eye is that Renner said that the reason why is because, supposedly, she slept with four of the Avengers. [I assume this is stuff in their characterization notes that they don't reveal to the public.]

That's interesting in way too many levels, to me.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
R.I.P Jarvis.
 

jakkuzarippa

Well-Known Member
H-Man said:
Probably because of the whole otherworldly thing. We know he's not human in many aspects.

Also, his head is red with a glowy gem. That's gotta count.

On another note: there's been some controversy regarding comments by Chris Evans and Jeremy Renner about how Black Widow's a slut. That's relevant [and lame], but what really caught my eye is that Renner said that the reason why is because, supposedly, she slept with four of the Avengers. [I assume this is stuff in their characterization notes that they don't reveal to the public.]

That's interesting in way too many levels, to me.

lolwut? Super Spy/Assassin trained by an elite K.G.B. program (in some pretty hardcore and heinous ways, I might add) to do whatever it takes to complete the mission. And she slept with 4 of her teammates, in a purely casual/non-romantic way, I assume, since she's either too much of a pro or too mentally scarred to do the romance thing?

Yeah, I'm not seeing the big deal here or why that's a reason for slut-shaming. Hell, Stark is one of the biggest manwhores around.


Now if we were talking Susan Storm, then yeah, there'd be plenty of rotten fruit to be tossed, but that's because of the difference in background, characterization, and her ongoing commitment to the genius-yet-socially-retarded moron she calls a husband.
 

shiki

Well-Known Member
And which four?

Stark is probable. Banner is a definite. Hawkeye? Probably not considering what we know now. Cap? Eh... I'm assuming that is a no, since Evans was wondering about when he would have had the time, until after Ultron since that last scene was a big hint of something ; that whole not looking for his happy ending with a family anymore and not being that guy anymore meant something. Thor? Eh...

The Falcon? Could see it. Vision? Not likely considering... you know.
 

H-Man

Random phantom.
She can't have slept with Banner. That was part of the whole point; he thought she had no interest in him, at first, and then that he was too horrible for her.
 

shiki

Well-Known Member
Doesn't mean it couldn't have happened after they cleared the air with the whole stupid "Monster" speech. I took it as a definite because there is a reason why she was so crushed at the end and why they were so lighthearted before the climax.
 

jakkuzarippa

Well-Known Member
Stark: I'd say there's a pretty good chance. Despite Pepper, Stark doing this would fit into his character of "Flawed man, but still making the hard decisions he thinks are best for us all"

Thor: Yep, despite Jane, I see this as a go as well. For cryin' out loud, he's a Norse God, I'm sure he's been up to his fair share of debauchery in post-battle feasts.

Cap'n and Hawkeye: Yeah, here's where I don't see it happening. Cap'n, cause he's got that mix of boy-scout goodness and damaged old soldier. Hawkeye, because its a strict Broship, at least in the MCU.

Rhodey and Wilson: These are a maybe for me. Hell, maybe Widow wanted to make her very own Oreo cookie :snigger: who knows.

Banner: Doesn't look like it. Although, with over an hour of footage supposedly cut from the theatrical release, shiki may have a point. There could have been a scene alluding to Bruce/Natasha (gotta keep it PG!) but it may be DVD only.

The Other Guyâ„¢: I'm not even gonna touch this one...
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
Unless that part of the 2008 film was retconned, Bruce is literally incapable of having sex without hulking out.

And did you miss the scene where
Tony and Thor had a “My girlfriend’s more awesome than yours” contest? I can't see either of them cheating, although I suppose it's possible that Tony had a hook-up with "Natalie Rushman" in a scene left out of IM2.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
Banner straight up told Black Widow when they were at Hawkeye's house that he can't have children. He told her to "do the math", obviously hinting at the fact that he'll hulk out if he tries. She responded that she can't have children either because she was sterilized by the organization that trained her. So no, they haven't had sex.
 
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