The Wheel Of Time
- Thread starter Ashaman
- Start date
Not quite.
LoC was a slog, and I've just this moment finished it.
Some notes;
Sammael is plotting
Rand is double plotting.
The Little Tower Aes Sedai are being accomodating, and Rands meeting are going well with them.
The White Tower's are sucking up to Rand, but he doesn't buy it.
He tells them both that only 3 can come at any one time, and other basic ground rules.
Oh, and Min appears suddenly, and spends most of her time on Rand's lap.
Nyneave Heals Severing, which leads up to the Yellows having like, a revolution. It turns out that Nyneaves method of using all 5 Powers is unheard of, and the idea that Fire or Earth can be used has got them all excitable.
Suine is extremely happy, and gets reinstated Aes Sedai.
Oh, and we get an interesting aside on the morality of gentleing - Sort of. They debate wheater they can gentle Logain seeing as Rand wouldn't take to Logain being gentled lightly, seeing as he set up that amnesty thing.
Egwene has some good moments, admitting her lies and deciets, accepting punishment and even rediscovering female Travelling
Egwene is raised Amyrlin, in what must be the most Woman Power Hear Me Roar! ritual I've read so far.
She immedaitely understands that the Aes Sedai are trying to use her, and so sets out mantaining the illusion of being cowed, all while bidding her time to build her power up.
Mat has to deal with 3 ultra bitches; Nyneave is scared of him, Egwene is using him, and Elayne seems to think she has the right to command him.
Yeah, Aes Sedai-dom has really gone to her head. Nyneave knows better then to command Mat, but both are trying their best to keep him out of the loop.
Which is just silly, because when you are trying to find a needle in a haystack, I'd personally like the guy who reality twists around as my wingman.
And this doesn't even bring into it that his super reality warping around him power manifests as luck.
No, the 2 women seem to think he'd get in the way.
Twice is a coincidence, 3 times is a pattern. 3 times or more, these NEE have gone off, bold as brass thinking they can handle it all alone, that the men that come to help them as useless at best, a hinderance at worst.
Twice now the men they've been so contemptuous of have been an intergral part of keeping them alive.
It seems that the very idea that men might know what the fuck they are talking about is absurd, since the first thing they have done when a new man has joined them is to bring them to heel, never mind the fact that they are 18 and 26, and the men have years of experience on them. Thom probably more than the both of them put together.
The experience thing doesn't count for Mat of course, but they form the same pattern.
I hope they learn soon.
Oh, and Perrin is back. He gets to meet the in-laws, which confuses the fuck out of him, then when they go to Cairhien, he meets Beralin who has been ruling Cairhein for Rand, and she seriously wants to fuck Perrin.
Faile acts like a jealous bitch.
Then a plot to almost kill a Little Tower Aes Sedai proceeds, and the Aes Sadi decide that Rand was obvisously sending a message.
To me its a obvious ploy that the Shaido or possibly even Shadow hatched to sow mistrust, which worked perfectly, because the Aes Sedai decide that it was obvioulsy Rands doing, and don't even consider it possible that it was something someone outside Rands control did. I understand their thought processes, but they leapt to a conclusion.
Then, 5-6 days later, they all go to confrount him about the restriction he put them under, and how this disrespect must end, and Rand is like What? You were fine with them before. Anyway, you think you can intimidate me? Fuck off.
Then 2 more Aes Sedai appear, making 13, and Rand goes "Fuck this shit, I'm going out of this City."
Rand lets them know that only 6 Aes Sedai can come to his other City.
They ignore him and send 9.
Oh, and the embassy has all but broken down by this point. And, true to form, even though at least some of the Aes Sedai put bonding a man against his will is akin to rape, all of them dismiss the moral implications of this, because its useful.
Only before they get there, they realize Rand is on the move and so change course to follow him.
Rand is kidnapped by the other Aes Sedai Embassy, and God damnit if the Aiel aren't pissed off at that; when they find out, which takes days because Rand has a habit of coming and going as he pleases.
Of course, being the bitches they are, they somehow decide that torture is the best method of breaking him, and keep him locked doubled over in a chest.
Yeah, good idea guys.
In the end, Perrin, Aiel and wolves all come to rescue him, and even a surprise appearance of Asha'man come to kill.
Oh, and the Asha'man? They come off as complete and total psycopaths. Saying that, it was a battle situation, but still....
In the end Rand is saved, Rand is pissed at all Aes Sedai, including the 9 who came to save him, mostly because its nine and he told them no more than 6.
He makes them swear feality to him.
Then the epilouge, where
the gholam appears, fel dies.
Oh, and Fel gives us this epic peice of knowledge which does well to explain one of Egwenes dreams.
Not word for word, but Belief is the Key, and First you must sweep away the rubble before you can rebuild.
What I got from that is that Before you can Seal the DO up, first you have to release him. Yeah, that's fucking terrifying.
Demandred goes to be congradulated at the end, for his good work. At last I understand the Taim = Demandred theory.
And Moghedain is released by the man in a woman's body. Who is in Salidar.
Now, I'm not quite sure where I stand on Rand's arrogance meter.
So far, he's definately arrogant, but still much less so than other people seem to think, mostly because they them selves think much too much of themselves.
He's making mistakes and they are biting him for it.
I feel almost sorry for the 9 Little Tower Women, they didn't deserve what they got, but they still did deserve some of it, because Rand really did make it quite clear to bring only 6, and they didn't heed his warning. Their own attempt at manipulation backfired on them spectactualrly.
And what does it all lead back to; its not one of their number seemingly being attacked at Rands order; its that he hurt their pride. They never mention the attempt on one of peoples lives in front of Rand, only that he should show them the respect they deserve.
In this conflict, both sides grew a little too proud, and they've paid for it.
Egwene is much better this time, and suddenly understands why Moraine spent so much time teaching Rand the Game of Houses. Which os very good.
LoC was a slog, and I've just this moment finished it.
Some notes;
Sammael is plotting
Rand is double plotting.
The Little Tower Aes Sedai are being accomodating, and Rands meeting are going well with them.
The White Tower's are sucking up to Rand, but he doesn't buy it.
He tells them both that only 3 can come at any one time, and other basic ground rules.
Oh, and Min appears suddenly, and spends most of her time on Rand's lap.
Nyneave Heals Severing, which leads up to the Yellows having like, a revolution. It turns out that Nyneaves method of using all 5 Powers is unheard of, and the idea that Fire or Earth can be used has got them all excitable.
Suine is extremely happy, and gets reinstated Aes Sedai.
Oh, and we get an interesting aside on the morality of gentleing - Sort of. They debate wheater they can gentle Logain seeing as Rand wouldn't take to Logain being gentled lightly, seeing as he set up that amnesty thing.
Egwene has some good moments, admitting her lies and deciets, accepting punishment and even rediscovering female Travelling
Egwene is raised Amyrlin, in what must be the most Woman Power Hear Me Roar! ritual I've read so far.
She immedaitely understands that the Aes Sedai are trying to use her, and so sets out mantaining the illusion of being cowed, all while bidding her time to build her power up.
Mat has to deal with 3 ultra bitches; Nyneave is scared of him, Egwene is using him, and Elayne seems to think she has the right to command him.
Yeah, Aes Sedai-dom has really gone to her head. Nyneave knows better then to command Mat, but both are trying their best to keep him out of the loop.
Which is just silly, because when you are trying to find a needle in a haystack, I'd personally like the guy who reality twists around as my wingman.
And this doesn't even bring into it that his super reality warping around him power manifests as luck.
No, the 2 women seem to think he'd get in the way.
Twice is a coincidence, 3 times is a pattern. 3 times or more, these NEE have gone off, bold as brass thinking they can handle it all alone, that the men that come to help them as useless at best, a hinderance at worst.
Twice now the men they've been so contemptuous of have been an intergral part of keeping them alive.
It seems that the very idea that men might know what the fuck they are talking about is absurd, since the first thing they have done when a new man has joined them is to bring them to heel, never mind the fact that they are 18 and 26, and the men have years of experience on them. Thom probably more than the both of them put together.
The experience thing doesn't count for Mat of course, but they form the same pattern.
I hope they learn soon.
Oh, and Perrin is back. He gets to meet the in-laws, which confuses the fuck out of him, then when they go to Cairhien, he meets Beralin who has been ruling Cairhein for Rand, and she seriously wants to fuck Perrin.
Faile acts like a jealous bitch.
Then a plot to almost kill a Little Tower Aes Sedai proceeds, and the Aes Sadi decide that Rand was obvisously sending a message.
To me its a obvious ploy that the Shaido or possibly even Shadow hatched to sow mistrust, which worked perfectly, because the Aes Sedai decide that it was obvioulsy Rands doing, and don't even consider it possible that it was something someone outside Rands control did. I understand their thought processes, but they leapt to a conclusion.
Then, 5-6 days later, they all go to confrount him about the restriction he put them under, and how this disrespect must end, and Rand is like What? You were fine with them before. Anyway, you think you can intimidate me? Fuck off.
Then 2 more Aes Sedai appear, making 13, and Rand goes "Fuck this shit, I'm going out of this City."
Rand lets them know that only 6 Aes Sedai can come to his other City.
They ignore him and send 9.
Oh, and the embassy has all but broken down by this point. And, true to form, even though at least some of the Aes Sedai put bonding a man against his will is akin to rape, all of them dismiss the moral implications of this, because its useful.
Only before they get there, they realize Rand is on the move and so change course to follow him.
Rand is kidnapped by the other Aes Sedai Embassy, and God damnit if the Aiel aren't pissed off at that; when they find out, which takes days because Rand has a habit of coming and going as he pleases.
Of course, being the bitches they are, they somehow decide that torture is the best method of breaking him, and keep him locked doubled over in a chest.
Yeah, good idea guys.
In the end, Perrin, Aiel and wolves all come to rescue him, and even a surprise appearance of Asha'man come to kill.
Oh, and the Asha'man? They come off as complete and total psycopaths. Saying that, it was a battle situation, but still....
In the end Rand is saved, Rand is pissed at all Aes Sedai, including the 9 who came to save him, mostly because its nine and he told them no more than 6.
He makes them swear feality to him.
Then the epilouge, where
the gholam appears, fel dies.
Oh, and Fel gives us this epic peice of knowledge which does well to explain one of Egwenes dreams.
Not word for word, but Belief is the Key, and First you must sweep away the rubble before you can rebuild.
What I got from that is that Before you can Seal the DO up, first you have to release him. Yeah, that's fucking terrifying.
Demandred goes to be congradulated at the end, for his good work. At last I understand the Taim = Demandred theory.
And Moghedain is released by the man in a woman's body. Who is in Salidar.
Now, I'm not quite sure where I stand on Rand's arrogance meter.
So far, he's definately arrogant, but still much less so than other people seem to think, mostly because they them selves think much too much of themselves.
He's making mistakes and they are biting him for it.
I feel almost sorry for the 9 Little Tower Women, they didn't deserve what they got, but they still did deserve some of it, because Rand really did make it quite clear to bring only 6, and they didn't heed his warning. Their own attempt at manipulation backfired on them spectactualrly.
And what does it all lead back to; its not one of their number seemingly being attacked at Rands order; its that he hurt their pride. They never mention the attempt on one of peoples lives in front of Rand, only that he should show them the respect they deserve.
In this conflict, both sides grew a little too proud, and they've paid for it.
Egwene is much better this time, and suddenly understands why Moraine spent so much time teaching Rand the Game of Houses. Which os very good.
If I remember, when Mat meets the NEE trio, one of them says that his army must be Dragonsworn in a way that shows how totally oblivious she is.
The sort-of-trial where the Aiel Wise Ones beat up on Egwene is guilty pleasure btw
Also, keep in mind that Rand is ta'veren. It could very well have been that him getting kidnapped was a part of the Wheel's will, given the sheer ripples it sends through both the White Towers, how it brings the Asha'man to prominence, and batters the Shaido.
The sort-of-trial where the Aiel Wise Ones beat up on Egwene is guilty pleasure btw
Also, keep in mind that Rand is ta'veren. It could very well have been that him getting kidnapped was a part of the Wheel's will, given the sheer ripples it sends through both the White Towers, how it brings the Asha'man to prominence, and batters the Shaido.
seitora said:
If I remember, when Mat meets the NEE trio, one of them says that his army must be Dragonsworn in a way that shows how totally oblivious she is.
The sort-of-trial where the Aiel Wise Ones beat up on Egwene is guilty pleasure btw
Also, keep in mind that Rand is ta'veren. It could very well have been that him getting kidnapped was a part of the Wheel's will, given the sheer ripples it sends through both the White Towers, how it brings the Asha'man to prominence, and batters the Shaido.
The sort-of-trial where the Aiel Wise Ones beat up on Egwene is guilty pleasure btw
Also, keep in mind that Rand is ta'veren. It could very well have been that him getting kidnapped was a part of the Wheel's will, given the sheer ripples it sends through both the White Towers, how it brings the Asha'man to prominence, and batters the Shaido.
Then she explains how he does what Rand says so he must be Dragonsworn, like its the most obvious thing in the world.
I don't think they made the realization that they themselves, all 3 of them, are Dragonsworn, though of a slightly different fasion.
They don't obey Rand, but all three want to help him, and are in fact working to turn the Salidar Aes Sedai into the same sort of Dragonsworn they are.
And yeah, Rand's ta'veren-ness causing his kidnapping is highly possible, considering the 3 or 4 coincidences which brought it about.
EDIT:
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the most retarded ranking system is used by the Tower.
Strength in the One Power is the number one determinator.
Not experience, but strength..
Fucking idiots.
Crown Of Swords:
Prolouge is not quite as long as LoC, but not exactly far off either.
There is some interesting anachronic order there, the first time I've noticted it.
Elaida speaks with Alviarin, and this takes place either before, during, or not long after Damui Wells.
Then we move onto a little before the battle at Damui Wells, this time from the point of view of the Shaido, which reveals just how far they have fallen.
Then when they have been crushed, we zoom back to Alviarin, who debriefs to Mesaana.
Then a brief inverlude with Gawyn, who really really wants to kill Rand.
Luckily, his love for Egwene holds her back there.
Then we have quite a time with Perrin, who really hates killing, and his conversation with Rand, who is driving himself mad with the number of women died because of him.
After that, Cairhein, where Rand has to deal with the fallout of his kidnapping, namely a woman who took th throne, only to have her dragged from it.
There is also the whole Aes Sedai thing, which is dealt with by having them handed to the Wise One's.
Then Egwene, being more like Rand than she can even comtemplate, manipulating people, wading through the Game Of Houses like a pro, and hating themselves for it every step of the way
Then a chapter of N_E + A and Birgitte.
On the way to visit the Sea Folk, Aviendha asks why they aren't using Mat, considering he's ta'veren.
Elayne had apparently forgotten, and is all for it as long as he can be properly controlled, while Nyneave, who knows Mat can't be controlled, wants no part in it at all.
Both Aviendha and Birgitte metaphorically roll their eyes at them in a "Stop being so silly" way.
Finally, when Elayne gets Nyneave to agree about asking for Mat's help... she sends Birgitte, because "Nyneave and I are Aes Sedai, and Aviendha might as well be. We cannot possibly do it. Not and maintain proper dignity. Not with him. You know what he is like."
Yeah, they refuse to ask for help they sorely need themselves because it hurts their pride. :no:
There's a bit with the Sea Folk to, but not much of inportance at the moment.
Then we have a fine moment with Mat, who wins handily at the horse races, spots the woman from EotW who tried to kill him and Rand on the road to Caemlyn, and follows her to a whitecloaks palace.
Then when Mat goes to the Queens palace to warn N_E, but instead gets caught between 5 Aes Sedai, Rebels and Tower, who literally play tug of war with his coat with him still wearing it.
In the end he just writes a letter to N_E
Then he actually meets with the Queen, who comes onto him really really strongly. The fact I have vague memories of how far she goes make it creepy.
Then an assassination attempt on Mat that he survives by pure luck (which is Mat all over).
Then we are back to Rand, who is still trying to sort out all the shit caused by his kidnapping...
And then Cadsuane appears.
Oh God this woman.
Prolouge is not quite as long as LoC, but not exactly far off either.
There is some interesting anachronic order there, the first time I've noticted it.
Elaida speaks with Alviarin, and this takes place either before, during, or not long after Damui Wells.
Then we move onto a little before the battle at Damui Wells, this time from the point of view of the Shaido, which reveals just how far they have fallen.
Then when they have been crushed, we zoom back to Alviarin, who debriefs to Mesaana.
Then a brief inverlude with Gawyn, who really really wants to kill Rand.
Luckily, his love for Egwene holds her back there.
Then we have quite a time with Perrin, who really hates killing, and his conversation with Rand, who is driving himself mad with the number of women died because of him.
After that, Cairhein, where Rand has to deal with the fallout of his kidnapping, namely a woman who took th throne, only to have her dragged from it.
There is also the whole Aes Sedai thing, which is dealt with by having them handed to the Wise One's.
Then Egwene, being more like Rand than she can even comtemplate, manipulating people, wading through the Game Of Houses like a pro, and hating themselves for it every step of the way
Then a chapter of N_E + A and Birgitte.
On the way to visit the Sea Folk, Aviendha asks why they aren't using Mat, considering he's ta'veren.
Elayne had apparently forgotten, and is all for it as long as he can be properly controlled, while Nyneave, who knows Mat can't be controlled, wants no part in it at all.
Both Aviendha and Birgitte metaphorically roll their eyes at them in a "Stop being so silly" way.
Finally, when Elayne gets Nyneave to agree about asking for Mat's help... she sends Birgitte, because "Nyneave and I are Aes Sedai, and Aviendha might as well be. We cannot possibly do it. Not and maintain proper dignity. Not with him. You know what he is like."
Yeah, they refuse to ask for help they sorely need themselves because it hurts their pride. :no:
There's a bit with the Sea Folk to, but not much of inportance at the moment.
Then we have a fine moment with Mat, who wins handily at the horse races, spots the woman from EotW who tried to kill him and Rand on the road to Caemlyn, and follows her to a whitecloaks palace.
Then when Mat goes to the Queens palace to warn N_E, but instead gets caught between 5 Aes Sedai, Rebels and Tower, who literally play tug of war with his coat with him still wearing it.
In the end he just writes a letter to N_E
Then he actually meets with the Queen, who comes onto him really really strongly. The fact I have vague memories of how far she goes make it creepy.
Then an assassination attempt on Mat that he survives by pure luck (which is Mat all over).
Then we are back to Rand, who is still trying to sort out all the shit caused by his kidnapping...
And then Cadsuane appears.
Oh God this woman.
Well, I won't deny that she's a striking woman, but she's also a complete and total bitch, who, IIRC, doesn't have any other method with people but to brow beat, insult, belittle and/or strike for being rude.
That said, she might have given Rand some good advice.
In short, shes an arrogant hyocrite who can't or won't learn that her methodology sucks in this situation.
It does not help that the only reason she's getting involved with Rand is for the challange of it.
Not for the good of the world; not for Rand's own good; but because she likes to attempt what others call impossible, and this is her last hurrah before she kicks the bucket of old age.
The only reason Rand hasn't thrown her as far away from him as possible is that Min had a viewing on her that she will teach him a lesson he needs to learn; if Cadsuane knows that she has protection from that, she milks it for all its worth. If she doesn't, shes a fool.
That said, she might have given Rand some good advice.
In short, shes an arrogant hyocrite who can't or won't learn that her methodology sucks in this situation.
It does not help that the only reason she's getting involved with Rand is for the challange of it.
Not for the good of the world; not for Rand's own good; but because she likes to attempt what others call impossible, and this is her last hurrah before she kicks the bucket of old age.
The only reason Rand hasn't thrown her as far away from him as possible is that Min had a viewing on her that she will teach him a lesson he needs to learn; if Cadsuane knows that she has protection from that, she milks it for all its worth. If she doesn't, shes a fool.
And we're back with the Forsaken plotting, using Sevanna, and the Shaido Wise Ones, then we get our very first look at the True Power from the eyes of an unnamed 3rd party.
Then we get Birgette's meeting with Mat - 2 seconds alone in the same room together and Mat remembers who she is and they have a conversation in the Old Tongue.
A little tid-bit tells us that Mat changes accent, which is new.
They agree to keep each others secrets, and then go out to get absolutely hammered.
Yeah, these two are going to get along swimmingly.
We cut to Elayne and co, waiting for Birgette to get back, all while Elayne is getting contact drunk.
When Birgette gets back, she douses herself in water, sits down on the floor and tells them Mat will help them for a thank you and apology.
"What for?" they ask.
"Getting you out of the Stone of Tear," Birgette replies.
Apparently this is something she would only ever attempt for Gaidal, her soul-mate.
Then Nyneave brushes it off, saying that there was only one Black Sister and she was already subdued, and Be'lal wasn't really interested in them.
Mat hadn't even mentioned them, and when Birgette finds out she thinks they should be thanking him on their knees.
Aviendha agrees, in her own way, saying that they have toh to Mat, and everything she's seen has just increased the amount of toh they have.
Its almost but not quite an admission from Aviendha that if this is true, they've been complete bitches to him
Lo and behold, the next day they thank him, apologize, make some concessions that they on't insult him or yell at him, that they'll tell him when they are leaving to search for ter'angreal, listen to his advise, and finally will stop trying to order him around.
Of course, considering the way its done its pretty obvious they still don't really believe they owe him any thanks. Not really.
Considering its implied that Aviendha was the source of these concessions, that Aiel woman has a better head on her shoulders than I thought.
This gets them more help, more protection, and clears the toh that the pair share towards Mat.
And guess what? Not 2 minutes after, I wont call it submitting, more like bowing their heads towards Mat, they get a significant clue to finding the ter'angreal.
Not that they'll ever put 2 and 2 together there, not even when the source of their clue mentions that she's only helping them because she likes Mat every other sentence.
EDIT: Oh, I apparently missed my mark. Nyneave doesn't seem to realize it, but Elayne does. And they then conspire to keep it secret. <_< Well, as long as Aviendha says thry don't have to tell.
Then we get Birgette's meeting with Mat - 2 seconds alone in the same room together and Mat remembers who she is and they have a conversation in the Old Tongue.
A little tid-bit tells us that Mat changes accent, which is new.
They agree to keep each others secrets, and then go out to get absolutely hammered.
Yeah, these two are going to get along swimmingly.
We cut to Elayne and co, waiting for Birgette to get back, all while Elayne is getting contact drunk.
When Birgette gets back, she douses herself in water, sits down on the floor and tells them Mat will help them for a thank you and apology.
"What for?" they ask.
"Getting you out of the Stone of Tear," Birgette replies.
Apparently this is something she would only ever attempt for Gaidal, her soul-mate.
Then Nyneave brushes it off, saying that there was only one Black Sister and she was already subdued, and Be'lal wasn't really interested in them.
Mat hadn't even mentioned them, and when Birgette finds out she thinks they should be thanking him on their knees.
Aviendha agrees, in her own way, saying that they have toh to Mat, and everything she's seen has just increased the amount of toh they have.
Its almost but not quite an admission from Aviendha that if this is true, they've been complete bitches to him
Lo and behold, the next day they thank him, apologize, make some concessions that they on't insult him or yell at him, that they'll tell him when they are leaving to search for ter'angreal, listen to his advise, and finally will stop trying to order him around.
Of course, considering the way its done its pretty obvious they still don't really believe they owe him any thanks. Not really.
Considering its implied that Aviendha was the source of these concessions, that Aiel woman has a better head on her shoulders than I thought.
This gets them more help, more protection, and clears the toh that the pair share towards Mat.
And guess what? Not 2 minutes after, I wont call it submitting, more like bowing their heads towards Mat, they get a significant clue to finding the ter'angreal.
Not that they'll ever put 2 and 2 together there, not even when the source of their clue mentions that she's only helping them because she likes Mat every other sentence.
EDIT: Oh, I apparently missed my mark. Nyneave doesn't seem to realize it, but Elayne does. And they then conspire to keep it secret. <_< Well, as long as Aviendha says thry don't have to tell.
What is this, Wheel of Time: The book of rape?
In this book, Lan's mind rape is brought to the forefront, as well as allusions to an encounter I cannot consider entirely consensual under the circumstances; Morgase is forced into agreeing to sexing up Valda, and Mat is half starved, locked into his room and literally forced to the bed at knife point - then the knife is used to cut his clothes off.
Nyneave is furious on Lan's behalf for the first, Morgase feels unclean for the second, but is told to suck it up as best she can manage, and Mat is described on being on the point of weeping twice in as many pages.
There is also the hint that Moghedian suffered a similar fate at the hands of the super Fade, though admittedly the fate of most women under a a Fade's minstrations was used as an absence.
Paraphased: "Most women would be driven insane in a Fade's care, but Moghedain only came away with a few bruises."
So I'm not sure if she suffered similar treatment, but much less truamatic, or simpler didn't suffer it at all.
Moving on, we mostly stick with Mat and N_E, who are trying to avoid the spirit of their agreement with Mat, keeping secrets from him, all but ordering him about.
(I'm surprised Aviendha hasn't spoken to them about that; from my understanding of Ji'n'toh, trying to wriggle around its constraints so much that you may as well be breaking them is probably more than frowned upon.)
Oh God, the way the pair let themselves be humliated by a bunch of women rather than let Mat help them was just disgraceful. Nyneave admitted as much.
Anyway, being ta'veren helps Mat succeed in finding the cache and report it to Elayne just moments before she would have found out its location herself, and when Elayne tries to rub that in her face a sharp look from Birgette gets her to admit that it wouldn't have been possible without him.
You know, I get the feeling that one of the reasons they don't like Mat is a misunderstanding on their part.
Do you know the phrase "Evil cannot comprhend Good."? In this case, its "Pride cannot comprehend modesty."
Mat wants his honest due, no more or less - NEE seem to think he's trying to needle it in or get twice the thanks he deserves plus reward.
And then they find it even more infuriating when they give him that basic politness, and he waves it off, thinking he's mocking them.
No, he's not making fun of you, he's, shock and horror, being modest and polite.
The other chapters not to do with Edou Dar deal with Morgase, the Seanchen invading the White Cloaks and the former Queen's escape.
The other deals wih Elaida finally finding out just how much she's blundered, and then blundering into perhaps the only good thing she's done since becoming Amyrlin.
I'm honestly not sure if Elaida meant to give the order, but she has set a White on the Hunt for Black Ajah, and horror of horrors, the woman brought in an old friend to help. A Red. And my first impression of her is actually :unsure!: good!
True, she's introduced as an oddity among Red's, who actually proposed that Red's jobs would be much easier with Warders.
We also get exposition on the Red Ajah - it attracts women who are suspcious of men, but some do join not because of any dislike, but because it has to be done. Unfortunately most of those get infected with the anti-men mentality. A pity.
I could actually bring myself to like the Red's if most of them had that line of thought.
In this book, Lan's mind rape is brought to the forefront, as well as allusions to an encounter I cannot consider entirely consensual under the circumstances; Morgase is forced into agreeing to sexing up Valda, and Mat is half starved, locked into his room and literally forced to the bed at knife point - then the knife is used to cut his clothes off.
Nyneave is furious on Lan's behalf for the first, Morgase feels unclean for the second, but is told to suck it up as best she can manage, and Mat is described on being on the point of weeping twice in as many pages.
There is also the hint that Moghedian suffered a similar fate at the hands of the super Fade, though admittedly the fate of most women under a a Fade's minstrations was used as an absence.
Paraphased: "Most women would be driven insane in a Fade's care, but Moghedain only came away with a few bruises."
So I'm not sure if she suffered similar treatment, but much less truamatic, or simpler didn't suffer it at all.
Moving on, we mostly stick with Mat and N_E, who are trying to avoid the spirit of their agreement with Mat, keeping secrets from him, all but ordering him about.
(I'm surprised Aviendha hasn't spoken to them about that; from my understanding of Ji'n'toh, trying to wriggle around its constraints so much that you may as well be breaking them is probably more than frowned upon.)
Oh God, the way the pair let themselves be humliated by a bunch of women rather than let Mat help them was just disgraceful. Nyneave admitted as much.
Anyway, being ta'veren helps Mat succeed in finding the cache and report it to Elayne just moments before she would have found out its location herself, and when Elayne tries to rub that in her face a sharp look from Birgette gets her to admit that it wouldn't have been possible without him.
You know, I get the feeling that one of the reasons they don't like Mat is a misunderstanding on their part.
Do you know the phrase "Evil cannot comprhend Good."? In this case, its "Pride cannot comprehend modesty."
Mat wants his honest due, no more or less - NEE seem to think he's trying to needle it in or get twice the thanks he deserves plus reward.
And then they find it even more infuriating when they give him that basic politness, and he waves it off, thinking he's mocking them.
No, he's not making fun of you, he's, shock and horror, being modest and polite.
The other chapters not to do with Edou Dar deal with Morgase, the Seanchen invading the White Cloaks and the former Queen's escape.
The other deals wih Elaida finally finding out just how much she's blundered, and then blundering into perhaps the only good thing she's done since becoming Amyrlin.
I'm honestly not sure if Elaida meant to give the order, but she has set a White on the Hunt for Black Ajah, and horror of horrors, the woman brought in an old friend to help. A Red. And my first impression of her is actually :unsure!: good!
True, she's introduced as an oddity among Red's, who actually proposed that Red's jobs would be much easier with Warders.
We also get exposition on the Red Ajah - it attracts women who are suspcious of men, but some do join not because of any dislike, but because it has to be done. Unfortunately most of those get infected with the anti-men mentality. A pity.
I could actually bring myself to like the Red's if most of them had that line of thought.
After sulking for a few days over what he and Min did together, Rand comes out of his funk with avengence; the sea folk fold like so much wet tissue paper, and Rand decides today is a good day to push his luck and goes to meet the rebels.
Where he meets Fain, and Cadsuane, and several nobles in opposition to him.
A bubble of Evil wrecks havok, and Fain gets a scratch in.
Luckily, a very skilled Healer is on sight, and Rand is returned to Cairhein as promptly as possible, where a male Healer does good work.
A Yellow, who Cadsuane aknowleges as incredibly skilled, literally offers to have an Asha'mans babies if he'd teach her what the hell he just did.
Then we are back to Mat, who wants to leave the city ASAP because he wants to get away from Tylin, before she can have her way with him again.
When told he that they maybe be days yet, Mat almost breaks down crying. This counts the 3rd time the narration has stated Mat is close to tears.
He speaks to Lan, who admits that two of Mat's men died last night by Moghedian's hand, and that Nyneave didn't want to tell him.
Then Elayne accuses him of forcing himself on the Queen.
We'll break that down for a second. Her first thought in learning that Mat is in a sexual relationship is that he was forcing it, not that it was consensual. And this is after Tylin gave her and Nyneave gifts for "introducing her to Mat."
Barring some weird signal that the red roses that tipped her off sybolize a one sided sexual relationship, she basically accuses him of rape.
Then when he embarrassedly tells her she starved, bullied, chased and threatened him into it, she mocks him and walks away trying unsuccessfully to hold in her laughter, seeminlg muttering that its a taste of his own medicine.
Yeah, second time shes all but accused him of rape.
Oh God, she and probably Nyneave believe him to be all but a rapist, forcing himself on girls who obviously don't want it.
You know, I think this is the first time I've actually hated the 'sheltered' part of these women.
Nyneave at least knows that women can be easy in that regard, but I doubt she ever considered that everything Mat does is consensual, and he would back off if told no.
And I wasn't exagerating about the narration stating Mat is near tears at least 3 times over this. Why do people think this is supposed to be taken for funny?
Where he meets Fain, and Cadsuane, and several nobles in opposition to him.
A bubble of Evil wrecks havok, and Fain gets a scratch in.
Luckily, a very skilled Healer is on sight, and Rand is returned to Cairhein as promptly as possible, where a male Healer does good work.
A Yellow, who Cadsuane aknowleges as incredibly skilled, literally offers to have an Asha'mans babies if he'd teach her what the hell he just did.
Then we are back to Mat, who wants to leave the city ASAP because he wants to get away from Tylin, before she can have her way with him again.
When told he that they maybe be days yet, Mat almost breaks down crying. This counts the 3rd time the narration has stated Mat is close to tears.
He speaks to Lan, who admits that two of Mat's men died last night by Moghedian's hand, and that Nyneave didn't want to tell him.
Then Elayne accuses him of forcing himself on the Queen.
We'll break that down for a second. Her first thought in learning that Mat is in a sexual relationship is that he was forcing it, not that it was consensual. And this is after Tylin gave her and Nyneave gifts for "introducing her to Mat."
Barring some weird signal that the red roses that tipped her off sybolize a one sided sexual relationship, she basically accuses him of rape.
Then when he embarrassedly tells her she starved, bullied, chased and threatened him into it, she mocks him and walks away trying unsuccessfully to hold in her laughter, seeminlg muttering that its a taste of his own medicine.
Yeah, second time shes all but accused him of rape.
Oh God, she and probably Nyneave believe him to be all but a rapist, forcing himself on girls who obviously don't want it.
You know, I think this is the first time I've actually hated the 'sheltered' part of these women.
Nyneave at least knows that women can be easy in that regard, but I doubt she ever considered that everything Mat does is consensual, and he would back off if told no.
And I wasn't exagerating about the narration stating Mat is near tears at least 3 times over this. Why do people think this is supposed to be taken for funny?
And just remember, Nynaeve didn't even say 'don't tell him it was Moghedion'. No, as far as all the writing and dialogue suggests, she just said 'don't tell him his men were killed'.
Considering that Moghedion might not be the most powerful woman on Earth but she's still one of the most lethal and cruel, it just might be a good idea to warn the man who not only has incredible luck but also a magic-blocking amulet! But no, the stupidity doesn't even stop there. Considering that they were his men you might think it would be a good idea to at least let him know that they were dead! What did Nynaeve plan to do, tell him that they went off chasing a rabid skunk and never came home?
Actually, considering Nynaeve's opinion of most men that might actually have been her plan.
So sex that is at best of dubious consent (and if Mat had been a woman and the Queen actually male women around the world would be furious for me even saying it might be of any consent at all) and frankly not that titillating.
Two supposedly intelligent characters* are so brain dead about their assets (no not like that) that it took Aviendha and Birgitte to remind them that Mat exists and a decision to respond to the sorceress murdering two soldiers by covering up the murder of those two soldiers.
Egwene (a child with no actual experience in politics who openly admits that she ignored all of Moraine's lessons to Rand on the subject) manipulating women who have decades of experience in manipulating others.
You know, it's funny. It's been a couple of books since the last time I found Rand's perspective the most interesting.
By the way, spoiler. Elaida has no idea that the Black Ajah exists. Even though Siuan claimed, under duress, that they exist and presumably Siuan still had her Oaths at that point (and even if she didn't Aes Sedai never really remember that). Admittedly it's been pointed out that just because someone believes something doesn't make it true, but you would assume that Elaida would, at the least, demand more details before brushing the issue aside.
Has Olver shown up yet?
*Seriously, is it any wonder that I think elevating them to Aes Sedai was a stupid idea only made tolerable because it's not like they're more idiotic than 9/10 of all authority figures?
Considering that Moghedion might not be the most powerful woman on Earth but she's still one of the most lethal and cruel, it just might be a good idea to warn the man who not only has incredible luck but also a magic-blocking amulet! But no, the stupidity doesn't even stop there. Considering that they were his men you might think it would be a good idea to at least let him know that they were dead! What did Nynaeve plan to do, tell him that they went off chasing a rabid skunk and never came home?
Actually, considering Nynaeve's opinion of most men that might actually have been her plan.
So sex that is at best of dubious consent (and if Mat had been a woman and the Queen actually male women around the world would be furious for me even saying it might be of any consent at all) and frankly not that titillating.
Two supposedly intelligent characters* are so brain dead about their assets (no not like that) that it took Aviendha and Birgitte to remind them that Mat exists and a decision to respond to the sorceress murdering two soldiers by covering up the murder of those two soldiers.
Egwene (a child with no actual experience in politics who openly admits that she ignored all of Moraine's lessons to Rand on the subject) manipulating women who have decades of experience in manipulating others.
You know, it's funny. It's been a couple of books since the last time I found Rand's perspective the most interesting.
By the way, spoiler. Elaida has no idea that the Black Ajah exists. Even though Siuan claimed, under duress, that they exist and presumably Siuan still had her Oaths at that point (and even if she didn't Aes Sedai never really remember that). Admittedly it's been pointed out that just because someone believes something doesn't make it true, but you would assume that Elaida would, at the least, demand more details before brushing the issue aside.
Has Olver shown up yet?
*Seriously, is it any wonder that I think elevating them to Aes Sedai was a stupid idea only made tolerable because it's not like they're more idiotic than 9/10 of all authority figures?
I honestly don't know what she planned to tell Mat; if she planned to tell him anything at all. She was probably hoping he wouldn't ask until it was already too late.
Thank God Lan has more sense than her.
After this book, I can honestly say that the women don't understand Mat at all, and it confounds them to fury.
They see a sex fiend and man-child. Because of that, they almost refuse to see the stubborn Two Rivers man that wouldn't hurt a woman unless his life depended on it, and maybe not even then, a ta'veren who just wants to help them after a fasion, a skiled general who can take charge and lead men to greatness, and a rogue who loves women.
If he does anything other than chase women who obviously don't want to be chased (except they probably do, and NEE are just too sheltered to realize it) and act like a fool who gambles (never mind that he almost always wins), he's obviously mocking them in some way.
This entire escapde, Mat practically carried them to success.
Elayne and Nyneave finally getting the other Aes Sedai to aknowledge them? Good, but ultimately merely a personal accomplishment.
Getting the Circle to agree to showing them the cache of angreal etc.
Mat already found it for you. Hell, the only reason they got near the Circle at all was because of Mat.
The deal they made with the Sea Folk about getting their help? A disaster, though how exactly is unknown to me.
Mat's little discussion with the Sea Folk ended with them knashing their teeth at how quickly they folded, and them doing whatever Mat asked.
(As a side note, it wouldn't surprise me if the Atha'an Miere made a rule never to Bargain with ta'veren ever again. Are they weak to it or something?)
The encounter with the gholham? Elayne would be dead, as well as how knows how many of the Circle and how many stolen angreal etc.
That said, Nyneave holding of two Linked Blacks was quite cool, though we have no idea how it ended.
Basically, all of N_E's attempts before Mat were mud, while all of his efforts were gold.
Fuck, I get the feeling that if N_E hadn't told him to watch the house with the Wise Women in it, he would have found it in half the time just wandering the Rahad.
And yeah, Olver is about. Mat picked him up in LoC. The little trouble maker.
A small correction though Grant. Egwene might not have much experience there, but she has certain advantages; mostly that the biggest manipulative bitch on the planet is on her side, and that most of her opponants think her a mere puppet.
She's learning quickly, but so far I haven't seen anything truely extraordinary in her planning. And like I said, anything really good is mostly from Suine.
And like I said, the orders Elaida gave were very obscure and she may have just blundered into making those orders accidentally.
It was all about hunting traitors up and down the Tower, and the White she spoke to came to the conclusion that she must have meant the Black Ajah.
Elaida made it very clear in SR that she doesn't believe in the Blacks, but the orders she gave were vague enough that the White came to that conclusion.
Like I said, she may have just blundered into ordering one of the most important searches in the Tower. The first truly good order I've ever seen from her.
-------------------------
I've now finished aCoS, but must wait until tomorrow afternoon before I can start Path of Daggers.
Before that though:
After carrying N_E most of the way, facing perhaps the scariest Shadowspawn in the series so far, and even somewhat earning Elayne's respect (though she still has this foolish notion that he is one of her subjects, the weirdo), Mat has helped them retrieve the Bowl of Winds and who knows how many other Objects of Power, and advocates getting the hell out of dodge; only the Sea olk are being stubborn.
5 minutes of explanation on how fucking scary a gholam is doesn't convince them, because who ever heard of something Aes Sedai know nothing about?
1 minute of Mat swinging his ta'veren-ness about puts them in their place, and even Nyneave and Elayne seem to be falling under its sway, for a short time at least.
Then he has to got out into the city to find Olver for departure; only for the Seanchen to invade while he's out searching.
His last words before a house falls on him "Where's my luck gone!"
I laughed.
Then Rand finally wakes up, barely able to walk and with his side burning; and decides today is a good day to kill Sammael.
Rand is crazy. But you know what? Rand brand crazy seems to work more often than not.
Also, Min is awesome. Not for any great feats, but because she actually gets Rand. So far, she's the only female character to actually understand him, barring perhaps Moraine.
She knows when to push him, when to hold her ground, when to advise and when to let him do whatever the fuck he wants.
BTW, Shadar Logath is where Rand faces Sammael; and holy hell is that place creepy. No wonder Rand chooses there for cleansing the taint; he had bad memories of that place.
Sammael dies by Mashadar (apparently) and Rand balefires Liah, the Maiden he had left there in LoC. That said, he did it by accident and she was dying by Mashadar at the time.
When he goes back to Illian, he gets crowned King of Illian.
Some of the Asha'man take up the chant "All hail Rand al'Thor, King of the World.
Yeah, Rand's reaction to that sent a shiver down my spine.
Rand is going to have some explaining to do; the women leave the room so he can talk to the Asha'man, and he comes back King of Illian.
Thank God Lan has more sense than her.
After this book, I can honestly say that the women don't understand Mat at all, and it confounds them to fury.
They see a sex fiend and man-child. Because of that, they almost refuse to see the stubborn Two Rivers man that wouldn't hurt a woman unless his life depended on it, and maybe not even then, a ta'veren who just wants to help them after a fasion, a skiled general who can take charge and lead men to greatness, and a rogue who loves women.
If he does anything other than chase women who obviously don't want to be chased (except they probably do, and NEE are just too sheltered to realize it) and act like a fool who gambles (never mind that he almost always wins), he's obviously mocking them in some way.
This entire escapde, Mat practically carried them to success.
Elayne and Nyneave finally getting the other Aes Sedai to aknowledge them? Good, but ultimately merely a personal accomplishment.
Getting the Circle to agree to showing them the cache of angreal etc.
Mat already found it for you. Hell, the only reason they got near the Circle at all was because of Mat.
The deal they made with the Sea Folk about getting their help? A disaster, though how exactly is unknown to me.
Mat's little discussion with the Sea Folk ended with them knashing their teeth at how quickly they folded, and them doing whatever Mat asked.
(As a side note, it wouldn't surprise me if the Atha'an Miere made a rule never to Bargain with ta'veren ever again. Are they weak to it or something?)
The encounter with the gholham? Elayne would be dead, as well as how knows how many of the Circle and how many stolen angreal etc.
That said, Nyneave holding of two Linked Blacks was quite cool, though we have no idea how it ended.
Basically, all of N_E's attempts before Mat were mud, while all of his efforts were gold.
Fuck, I get the feeling that if N_E hadn't told him to watch the house with the Wise Women in it, he would have found it in half the time just wandering the Rahad.
And yeah, Olver is about. Mat picked him up in LoC. The little trouble maker.
A small correction though Grant. Egwene might not have much experience there, but she has certain advantages; mostly that the biggest manipulative bitch on the planet is on her side, and that most of her opponants think her a mere puppet.
She's learning quickly, but so far I haven't seen anything truely extraordinary in her planning. And like I said, anything really good is mostly from Suine.
And like I said, the orders Elaida gave were very obscure and she may have just blundered into making those orders accidentally.
It was all about hunting traitors up and down the Tower, and the White she spoke to came to the conclusion that she must have meant the Black Ajah.
Elaida made it very clear in SR that she doesn't believe in the Blacks, but the orders she gave were vague enough that the White came to that conclusion.
Like I said, she may have just blundered into ordering one of the most important searches in the Tower. The first truly good order I've ever seen from her.
-------------------------
I've now finished aCoS, but must wait until tomorrow afternoon before I can start Path of Daggers.
Before that though:
After carrying N_E most of the way, facing perhaps the scariest Shadowspawn in the series so far, and even somewhat earning Elayne's respect (though she still has this foolish notion that he is one of her subjects, the weirdo), Mat has helped them retrieve the Bowl of Winds and who knows how many other Objects of Power, and advocates getting the hell out of dodge; only the Sea olk are being stubborn.
5 minutes of explanation on how fucking scary a gholam is doesn't convince them, because who ever heard of something Aes Sedai know nothing about?
1 minute of Mat swinging his ta'veren-ness about puts them in their place, and even Nyneave and Elayne seem to be falling under its sway, for a short time at least.
Then he has to got out into the city to find Olver for departure; only for the Seanchen to invade while he's out searching.
His last words before a house falls on him "Where's my luck gone!"
I laughed.
Then Rand finally wakes up, barely able to walk and with his side burning; and decides today is a good day to kill Sammael.
Rand is crazy. But you know what? Rand brand crazy seems to work more often than not.
Also, Min is awesome. Not for any great feats, but because she actually gets Rand. So far, she's the only female character to actually understand him, barring perhaps Moraine.
She knows when to push him, when to hold her ground, when to advise and when to let him do whatever the fuck he wants.
BTW, Shadar Logath is where Rand faces Sammael; and holy hell is that place creepy. No wonder Rand chooses there for cleansing the taint; he had bad memories of that place.
Sammael dies by Mashadar (apparently) and Rand balefires Liah, the Maiden he had left there in LoC. That said, he did it by accident and she was dying by Mashadar at the time.
When he goes back to Illian, he gets crowned King of Illian.
Some of the Asha'man take up the chant "All hail Rand al'Thor, King of the World.
Yeah, Rand's reaction to that sent a shiver down my spine.
Rand is going to have some explaining to do; the women leave the room so he can talk to the Asha'man, and he comes back King of Illian.
Rand does have the excuse that being well-known to be on death's door and pacing around, deciding whether or not to knock means that no one will expect him to launch an attack on the enemy capital. Of course considering that his plan involves him personally fighting someone roughly equal in power and with far more direct combat experience maybe Rand should have gotten a day's rest first.
And Elayne. She really doesn't get that even if she did have all the support of the Houses to make her queen (which she doesn't - though she didn't know that) she is not getting Two Rivers. To start the Last Battle is... whenever the author got around to it but still close. This is not the time for expansion. Second is when it comes to deciding borders, if Rand disagrees with someone the other person is going to have to accept that they happen to be wrong. Third is that Two Rivers and associated areas have zero cultural memory of being under Andor, long established local control and a recent experience of facing an existential threat (the Trollocs) and beating it on their own. Perrin was from Two Rivers. People knew him. Elayne is a foreigner that barely anyone has heard of, much less met, and has never provided any guidance or security. Two Rivers would probably turn into the equivalent of Basque.
And it's not the Sea Folk, when the plot wants it everyone's weak to ta'veren. Wonder how you'd go about proving someone was one.
And Elayne. She really doesn't get that even if she did have all the support of the Houses to make her queen (which she doesn't - though she didn't know that) she is not getting Two Rivers. To start the Last Battle is... whenever the author got around to it but still close. This is not the time for expansion. Second is when it comes to deciding borders, if Rand disagrees with someone the other person is going to have to accept that they happen to be wrong. Third is that Two Rivers and associated areas have zero cultural memory of being under Andor, long established local control and a recent experience of facing an existential threat (the Trollocs) and beating it on their own. Perrin was from Two Rivers. People knew him. Elayne is a foreigner that barely anyone has heard of, much less met, and has never provided any guidance or security. Two Rivers would probably turn into the equivalent of Basque.
And it's not the Sea Folk, when the plot wants it everyone's weak to ta'veren. Wonder how you'd go about proving someone was one.
You know, if it weren't for the fact that there's the Dark One and everything out there, if Rand, Perrin, and Mat had all stayed at home in the Two Rivers and still had their ta'veren h4x, they would have completely god-moded the world. Eventually Rand would've become King of Neo-Manetheren, Perrin would have become like a Lord Court-Administrator, and Mat would have slaughtered all the Andorian forces that attempted to take the Two Rivers back.
Yes, Pevara is one of the good Reds.
Nynaeve I would think would know better about Mat's behaviour. Sure, he's mischievous and everything and a womaniser but did he ever have a rape-face? At least Elayne doesn't get flanderised into thinking he's like fanfiction Kiba.
And with regards to Elaida from before, I still think it's funny the White girl whose name I forget misunderstood what Elaida was trying to say as hunting the Black Ajah :rofl:
Mat at least manages to get away from the abuse for a book by disappearing completely, which is good. The Path of Daggers is probably the second worst book in the series, after Crossroads of Twilight.
Yes, Pevara is one of the good Reds.
Nynaeve I would think would know better about Mat's behaviour. Sure, he's mischievous and everything and a womaniser but did he ever have a rape-face? At least Elayne doesn't get flanderised into thinking he's like fanfiction Kiba.
And with regards to Elaida from before, I still think it's funny the White girl whose name I forget misunderstood what Elaida was trying to say as hunting the Black Ajah :rofl:
Mat at least manages to get away from the abuse for a book by disappearing completely, which is good. The Path of Daggers is probably the second worst book in the series, after Crossroads of Twilight.
Have you been reading <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7628608/1/Ta-veren' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Ta-Veren</a>?
Reading parts of that fic makes me want a fic where RPM leave the Two Rivers 6 months before Eye of the World.
Moraine and Fain + Shadowspawn arrive only to find the trio they want gone; the trio then proceed to have bro advantures while their ta'veren-ness keeps them alive and in relatively good health.
Remember how I called Nyneave a controlling mother who doesn't quite realize how she's going wrong - Its probably like that. She watched him grow up a prankster and trouble maker in a village that views intimacy as incredibly private, almost shameful, and only should be done between man and wife.
Cause of that, her thoughts go Mat= trouble maker.
Trouble maker + womaniser + conservative view point + a dash of sexism = Mat must be troubling those poor women!
On a fundamental veiw point, she does not understand that some womans minds go:
Handsome rogue + money + showing an interest (+ power, depending on where in the story) = It's Sexy Time.
In N_E's defense, the pair do acknowledge that they've misunderstood him.
When Nyneave finds out, she talks to Tylin, giving the rapist Queen the impression that Nyneave thinks of Mat as a child in need of protection.
Reading parts of that fic makes me want a fic where RPM leave the Two Rivers 6 months before Eye of the World.
Moraine and Fain + Shadowspawn arrive only to find the trio they want gone; the trio then proceed to have bro advantures while their ta'veren-ness keeps them alive and in relatively good health.
Remember how I called Nyneave a controlling mother who doesn't quite realize how she's going wrong - Its probably like that. She watched him grow up a prankster and trouble maker in a village that views intimacy as incredibly private, almost shameful, and only should be done between man and wife.
Cause of that, her thoughts go Mat= trouble maker.
Trouble maker + womaniser + conservative view point + a dash of sexism = Mat must be troubling those poor women!
On a fundamental veiw point, she does not understand that some womans minds go:
Handsome rogue + money + showing an interest (+ power, depending on where in the story) = It's Sexy Time.
In N_E's defense, the pair do acknowledge that they've misunderstood him.
When Nyneave finds out, she talks to Tylin, giving the rapist Queen the impression that Nyneave thinks of Mat as a child in need of protection.
What did you say?
I liked the RPM's argument with Moraine, but I think that the meeting with Lews was a bit iffy, and that its all going a bit too fast. Oh, I very much like it, but a couple of things are a little bit jarring to me.
----------------------
Started tPoD.
The Borderland royalty is coming to visit, no idea why, but considering this has been hinted at since the end of FoH/ beginning of LoC, I'm looking forward to finding out.
And Verin knows a type of compulsion? :blink: She's using it to influence the Aes Sedai prisoners, some of which say that they disagreed with Rand's treatment and that they felt the need to protect him. And protect the world from him.
This goes back to what Moraine said in her good bye letter; even the most well-intentioned of her sisters could bring disaster.
We move back to NEA (the A is for Aviendha :sisi: ) who are finally leaving Ebou Dar; Aviendha weaves the gateway, and then when everyone is through, pulls it apart so that the residue can't be read.
A Talent she and Rand share, that one.
All the while, she watches Moridin watching her, and when she tells the other women about him, they dismiss him as a servent.
Moridin was only there as an idle curiousity, until Aviendha unweaves the gateway; that was something thought impossible in the Age of Legends. He's none too happy about it.
The Aes Sedai agree, but the Wise One's believe it more like something dangerous but learnable - with sufficent practice.
Then he learns that there is a ter'angreal there to manipulate the weather and he becomes murderous. The Great Lords effort to be undone like that really pissed him off.
And its implied Moridin is ignorant of the gholam, who decides NEA is the more pressing (and fun) target between them and Mat.
Then we get politics, find out the bargain of the Sea Folk - which is bad but not terrible. Its a bloody student exchange program, though a mostly one sided one.
And Elayne still has this silly notion that Mat is her subject :huh.:
During the weather changing, we get reminder about linking, which goes a little more indepth than before, and when the women using the Bowl realize that saidin is also being used, it brings to the forefront just how scary saidin is to people.
Then, after all is said and done there, they realize Saidar is being used in the city, and that its the Seanchen.
Even exhausted, Nyneave immediately wants to go back to get Mat.
The others suggest otherwise, but its still browny points to Nyneave, who has been acting like she hates Mat for the last book and a half.
Oh, and being married to Lan has seriously changed her for the better - well, I could do without her acting like a giddy teenage girl, but she's now trying to control her temper, unleashing it when she feels the need, acting a little bit more humble and yet continuing to be bossy.
Well, those 2 probably sound contradictory, but I don't care; I like Nyneave's strong personality - but everything in moderation, y'know?
Then they realize that the Seanchen will be coming this way, and that its probably for the best if they get out of dodge - and Elayne tries to do and unweaving, and fumbles it so bad it blows up in their faces.
Saying that, the Seanchen were attacking at the time, so what can you do?
I liked the RPM's argument with Moraine, but I think that the meeting with Lews was a bit iffy, and that its all going a bit too fast. Oh, I very much like it, but a couple of things are a little bit jarring to me.
----------------------
Started tPoD.
The Borderland royalty is coming to visit, no idea why, but considering this has been hinted at since the end of FoH/ beginning of LoC, I'm looking forward to finding out.
And Verin knows a type of compulsion? :blink: She's using it to influence the Aes Sedai prisoners, some of which say that they disagreed with Rand's treatment and that they felt the need to protect him. And protect the world from him.
This goes back to what Moraine said in her good bye letter; even the most well-intentioned of her sisters could bring disaster.
We move back to NEA (the A is for Aviendha :sisi: ) who are finally leaving Ebou Dar; Aviendha weaves the gateway, and then when everyone is through, pulls it apart so that the residue can't be read.
A Talent she and Rand share, that one.
All the while, she watches Moridin watching her, and when she tells the other women about him, they dismiss him as a servent.
Moridin was only there as an idle curiousity, until Aviendha unweaves the gateway; that was something thought impossible in the Age of Legends. He's none too happy about it.
The Aes Sedai agree, but the Wise One's believe it more like something dangerous but learnable - with sufficent practice.
Then he learns that there is a ter'angreal there to manipulate the weather and he becomes murderous. The Great Lords effort to be undone like that really pissed him off.
And its implied Moridin is ignorant of the gholam, who decides NEA is the more pressing (and fun) target between them and Mat.
Then we get politics, find out the bargain of the Sea Folk - which is bad but not terrible. Its a bloody student exchange program, though a mostly one sided one.
And Elayne still has this silly notion that Mat is her subject :huh.:
During the weather changing, we get reminder about linking, which goes a little more indepth than before, and when the women using the Bowl realize that saidin is also being used, it brings to the forefront just how scary saidin is to people.
Then, after all is said and done there, they realize Saidar is being used in the city, and that its the Seanchen.
Even exhausted, Nyneave immediately wants to go back to get Mat.
The others suggest otherwise, but its still browny points to Nyneave, who has been acting like she hates Mat for the last book and a half.
Oh, and being married to Lan has seriously changed her for the better - well, I could do without her acting like a giddy teenage girl, but she's now trying to control her temper, unleashing it when she feels the need, acting a little bit more humble and yet continuing to be bossy.
Well, those 2 probably sound contradictory, but I don't care; I like Nyneave's strong personality - but everything in moderation, y'know?
Then they realize that the Seanchen will be coming this way, and that its probably for the best if they get out of dodge - and Elayne tries to do and unweaving, and fumbles it so bad it blows up in their faces.
Saying that, the Seanchen were attacking at the time, so what can you do?
The characters do make it clear that if Aviendha had messed up (or Elayne later) it could have done anything from nothing to blowing them up to permanently severing them. I have to admit that I wouldn't consider it worth experimenting with. Now Aviendha was reacting to one of the creepiest people DO has under his control and Elayne was preventing the Seanchan from learning how to Travel, but it's still insanely dangerous and up until this point no Aes Sedai or Aiel had ever really had a need for it.
I noted in my review that if Rand is relying on memories, all he knows is that an Aes Sedai who has the Ageless face means she did something really bad to have to use the Binding Rod. He doesn't know that the Aes Sedai use it for something entirely different now.
Fun fact, still with no TGS or ToM spoilers: many people use the scene with the Bowl of the Winds for a theory that Aviendha's form of Traveling is time travel, and use the scene from Fires of Heaven where she travels to Seanchan as well.
Don't be reading the comments on the first link, though, as everything after November 2009 is potential TGS spoilers
<a href='http://13depository.blogspot.ca/2001/07/aviendhas-gateway.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://13depository.blogspot.ca/2001/07/av...as-gateway.html</a>
<a href='http://www.presskanne.com/theory/930' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.presskanne.com/theory/930</a>
Fun fact, still with no TGS or ToM spoilers: many people use the scene with the Bowl of the Winds for a theory that Aviendha's form of Traveling is time travel, and use the scene from Fires of Heaven where she travels to Seanchan as well.
Don't be reading the comments on the first link, though, as everything after November 2009 is potential TGS spoilers
<a href='http://13depository.blogspot.ca/2001/07/aviendhas-gateway.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://13depository.blogspot.ca/2001/07/av...as-gateway.html</a>
<a href='http://www.presskanne.com/theory/930' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.presskanne.com/theory/930</a>
Which is what I'm saying.
The theory goes that Aviendha sent them back in time 2 or so hours.
They left after noon, and went north. And possibly a little bit east.
Elayne notes that the sun is a little lower in the sky than it should be. Then she dismisses it as her imagination.
Think about it for a second. The sun is lower in the sky.
They go north and east (supposedly), both of which would make the sun appear lower, but only a very little, so little that it would in fact be indistinguishable.
If we focus in on time wise: going backwards in time would actually cause it to be higher in the sky, because its closer to noon.
Unless I'm fucking up physics epically.
The only way it would be lower in the sky is if they went forward in time an hour or so, allowing more time to have passed, more time had passed than they thought, or that they went back in time far enough that it was the morning again and they all somehow missed that they experienced noon twice.
The theory goes that Aviendha sent them back in time 2 or so hours.
They left after noon, and went north. And possibly a little bit east.
Elayne notes that the sun is a little lower in the sky than it should be. Then she dismisses it as her imagination.
Think about it for a second. The sun is lower in the sky.
They go north and east (supposedly), both of which would make the sun appear lower, but only a very little, so little that it would in fact be indistinguishable.
If we focus in on time wise: going backwards in time would actually cause it to be higher in the sky, because its closer to noon.
Unless I'm fucking up physics epically.
The only way it would be lower in the sky is if they went forward in time an hour or so, allowing more time to have passed, more time had passed than they thought, or that they went back in time far enough that it was the morning again and they all somehow missed that they experienced noon twice.
It was just after noon when they travelled
So the sun would be lower, but it would also haven't reached its high noon zenith yet
Also keep in mind 'noon' isn't always perfectly in-line with when the sun is at its highest in the sky. If Randland has some sort of common time the zenith could be 20 minutes past noon or something in Ebou Dar area
So the sun would be lower, but it would also haven't reached its high noon zenith yet
Also keep in mind 'noon' isn't always perfectly in-line with when the sun is at its highest in the sky. If Randland has some sort of common time the zenith could be 20 minutes past noon or something in Ebou Dar area