The Wheel Of Time

[Ashaman]

It was just after noon when they travelled

So the sun would be lower, but it would also haven't reached its high noon zenith yet

Also keep in mind 'noon' isn't always perfectly in-line with when the sun is at its highest in the sky. If Randland has some sort of common time the zenith could be 20 minutes past noon or something in Ebou Dar area

"'We are bloody well getting out of here now,' Mat said, again later, and this time there was argument. There had been argument for the past half-hour near enough. Outside, the sun was past its noon peak."

A Crown of Swords, Promises to Keep

This was before Mat made his Bargain with the Sea Folk.

When I say it was after noon, I mean after the time that the sun was at its highest.

Unless I'm being completely stupid about this, the natural progression of the day is that the sun goes lower in the sky the further after high noon it gets.

The theory goes on that they must have gone backwards into the morning then.

But you see, then I can't help but think to myself - 5/7 Aes Sedai, an Aiel, 11 members of the Knitting Circle, 20 Sea Folk, at least 3 Warders (probably closer to 6 or 7, but I can only confirm 3 without rereading the entire passage) and an untold number of servants. Not a single one noticed that the sun was climbing for x amount of time, that the sun was much further east than it should be, that high noon happened twice.

And I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe close to 40 channellers all missed it. I doubly refuse to think that the half dozen Warders missed it as well.

Elayne notes that the sun was out of position, then dismisses it as a delusion.

That tells me that its not a good deal out of position - certainly not 2 hours worth.

The only other explanation is that they lost time - and then we get to the gholam, whose POV tells us he can sense channelling in the North, the implication being its the other side of the gateway.

 

[Ashaman]

We follow the conclusion of the Bowl sub-plot with Perrin, who has to deal with his wife, the woman who realy wants to screw his brains out, Aes Sedai prisoners/apprentices, Wise Ones, Maidens, his own people, and Gaul, the only male Aiel that isn't Shaido.

I now feel comfortable in nameing Perrin's Ta'veren as the ability to influence people, seeing as minutes after meeting the Queen of Ghealdean, she swears loyalty to him.

The next thing he must do is track down the Prophet, and won't that halfmad dickhead be happy when Perrin appears to tell him he's giving the Dragon a bad name and he either has to put a stop to this nonesense or hang.

After Elyas makes a reappearance, and gives Perrin some marriage advise, Perrin jumps back into leadership, even if he isn't particularly happy about it.

Then we jump to Cadsuane, who we get exposition on - she admits that she'd be perfectly willing to Bond Rand against his will if Alanna hadn't already shown the futility of it.

She implies she was raised in Far Madding, where Women rule and Men are seen as inherently inferior.

She mentions that she believes most Sisters have bungled the job, from Moraine to Elaida, as if she is going to do any better.

Moraine did a great job, eventually. Well, a good one at least.

Anyway, Cadsuane and Soleia, the Head Wise One come to the agreement that Rand needs to be taught laughter and tears.

IIRC, they will proceed to go about this in the most fucked up, worse way possible.

And then we have a chapter full of Rand, who is running on fumming. The man is furious, partly because the Seanchen are back and merchants hid this fact in order to make more money, partly because Illian's are still in a state of revolt, and partly because its almost as if Sammael is laughing at him from beyond the grave, seeing as that one of that bastard's final acts before fighting Rand was to scatter the Shaido across Murandy, Gheldean, Altara and who knows where else.

EDIT: Oh, and also partly because Lews is refusing to answer him, and its making him paranoid about his own sanity.

 

[grant]

All ta'veren have the power to influence people (if they're strong enough) and the queen seems to imply that she was planning on doing this out of desperation. I think his special trait is just the wolves.

Cadsuane is a bit over-hyped. They talk about how great and legendary she is but for most of the books she's in she really doesn't do much that another Aes Sedai couldn't do*. Her back story has some impressive moments but really she just makes me think of River Song. Large potential but little payoff.

*Except defuse a situation caused by another Aes Sedai panicking when Cadsuane first appeared.

 

[Ashaman]

All ta'veren have the power to influence people (if they're strong enough) and the queen seems to imply that she was planning on doing this out of desperation. I think his special trait is just the wolves.

Cadsuane is a bit over-hyped. They talk about how great and legendary she is but for most of the books she's in she really doesn't do much that another Aes Sedai couldn't do*. Her back story has some impressive moments but really she just makes me think of River Song. Large potential but little payoff.

*Except defuse a situation caused by another Aes Sedai panicking when Cadsuane first appeared.

While it true that Perrin is relatively bland Ta'veren wise, I think he's still more focused towards influencing people than compared to Mat.

If we frame it in the stats of a video game, Mat put the lions share of his points into fucking with probability, while Perrin went for people.

Influencing people:

Rand = 20

Mat= 2

Perrin = 8

Fucking with probability:

Rand = 20

Mat = 10

Perrin = 3

Other:

Rand = 20

Mat = 8

Perrin = 9

---------------------------

Continuing with tPoD, Rand suffers a messenger of Taim's, and we learn that they mix a potion that kills them painlessly. We also learn more about the Black Tower, and they're rising numbers - I think they're estimate of rivaling the White Tower is going to be blown away or some time yet though, considering they are recruiting on their own.

Rand also lets slip that he plans to cleanse Saidin, and that he got the method from the Snakes in the Stone of Tear, reinforcing the fact that Rand's been planning this for some time.

I hope we learn the words used to instruct Rand, seeing as they are described as being riddle-like.

This train of thought also has the unintended side effect of bringing Lews back out, who thinks the idea is dangerous, but plausable.

 

[Ashaman]

Egwene is next, playing the Game of Houses rather well.

No, I take that back.

Brilliantly.

Sure, there were a few hiccups on the way, and she was forced to play the long game, but Egwene has just made the Hall her bitch.

 

[seitora]

Man, you're getting up to what may be the favorite part of the series for me, the end of Winter's Heart. Fucking badass moments.

 

[grant]

Actually the number they raise for the Black Tower is incredible considering the problems. Personally I suspect it's the same as the girls who aren't found by the Aes Sedai. Some portion of them instinctively use the power and go insane but there are far more who never do until they're taught how. Considering how many have been severed by the Aes Sedai it's probably those potentials (and the female potentials) who unknowingly kept the ability to channel in the regular Westland population considering that the Aes Sedai removed themselves almost entirely from the gene pool and the active male channelers died quickly.

As for the White Tower, eventually their numbers start to rise (after they remove some of the stupid self-destructive rules they were following*) but the Black Tower's population balloons enough that they could probably keep their independence against anything short of an army of Aes Sedai** or Rand.

*And their predecessors were stupid enough to never think of Two Rivers and surrounding areas when it was time for recruitment drives. Despite, you know, being the descendants of one of the most important cities in the place.
**Which they demonstrate harshly on the woefully small task force Elaida sends.

And I still think Egwene's successes are bull. I don't care if they underestimate her and she has Siuane coaching her. These people are trained manipulators who have held their own against each other for decades.

 

[Ashaman]

Oh no, they are recruiting like nobodies business, and if the White Tower had kept the same recruitment policies it had before, The Black Tower would rival them pretty damn soon.

But the thing is, the White Tower changed their recruitment policy from passive and within a narrow age range, to active and everyone willing to learn.

The same as the BT.

They will also be adding the Kin to the WT's numbers, and unlesss I've misinterprted the numbers, the Kin actually outnumber the WT's numbers. The Kin has just under 2000 members, while the WT, before the change in recruitment, only had about 1500.

So the WT has doubled its numbers and increased the rate of membership induction.


I can't really call Egwene's success bull. Mostly she survives by submitting to the Hall, Suine pointing her in the right direction, taking the time to brute force some outlying Aes Sedai into supporting her, and striking only when the time is ripe.

Her first victory was raising Nyneave and Elayne, and the Hall couldn't take it back because she shouted it out in the middle of her inaugeration speech.

Her next was getting the whole thing moving, and not only had Suine been laying the foundation of that for months, she got lucky with the Band showing up, indicating that Rand knew exactly where they were.

After that her next win was gaining the loyalty of a few Sisters, mostly by blackmail. And again, Suine is the one who set it all up.

And in this book, she's finally managed to ripen the Hall up into declaring War against Elaida, and using an incredibly old set of Laws, gotten herself raised to dictator. Whatever she says, goes, cause its War. And again, Suine gave her the means to this.

Egwene matured alot in SR-FoH, (though in some ways shes still childish) and when I add that maturity to the Aes Sedai's frayed emotional state, the oddly young Hall (which hasn't been explained yet, though I think the 2 major powers in the Hall set it up that way to make them easier to manipulate) and the changing world, I can buy it

Man, you're getting up to what may be the favorite part of the series for me, the end of Winter's Heart. Fucking badass moments.

Yeah, I know.

I'm racing through tPoD because I remember WH being really good.

OTOH, the closer I get to WH, the closer I get to CoT.

 

[Ashaman]

I think I've found the very best line in this book.

Maybe in the series so far.

And its from Lews Therin, the Light bless his crazy soul.

I would not mind you in my head, Lews said, sounding almost sane, if you were not so clearly mad.

I lol'd :lol:

 

[seitora]

Thanks to ta'veren, WoT is a pretty tight series since you can handwave away nearly everything as Wheel hijinks.

That said, again, presume the WT actually got their rear ends together and did the new membership policy while Siuane was still in office.

 

[Ashaman]

Apparently 1 month has gotten the Little Tower 1000 new novices. Adding the 2000 Kin, and 1000-1500 Aes Seadi, that means when the Tower is whole again, about 4000 women will be aligned with the WT.

Of course, all things being equal, the Foretelling mentioned that after the Last Battle, the servents and guardians will stand equal, so yeah.

Rand continues to press forward on the Seanchen, driving them further and further back, only to press too hard.

After a victory of a sort, Rand decides he wants to crush them, and grabs Callandor - only for Callandor to fuck him over, and his Rain of Lightning falls on his own head instead of just theirs.

For the first time, the Lord of the Morning has lost - except that the Ever Victorious Army also conceeds defeat.

So not a loss, but a draw.

Considering Rand fought with only 5000-6000 men and a handful of Asha'man, he did pretty fucking well.

Rand also made quite a few mistakes, but the 2 really crippaling ones were not backing off when Bashere warned him to, and when he ignored the Asha'man's warnings that Saidin felt off in the area.

After that follows Elayne, who has finally made it to Caemlyn.

And the hunt for the Black Tower continues - The Oath Rod makes this much easier, and hell, they might have their first ping.

I'm actually incredibly interested in this sub-plot.

Then we are back to Rand, who Cadsuane is snubbing, and teaching Rand a little humiltiy.

Too bad she's fucking terrible at it.

It was a good idea for her to make Rand go to her, and when he asked her to be his advisor as killing of Illian, I thought "Yeah, that's fine. She's take this small battle and agree. So, talking down to hima little, she sweetens the deal by giving him some promises.

Except she interspaces the promises with threats and seem to think him 10 years old.

The Short of it is:

You'll listen, but I won't make you do anything. If you don'y I'll beat you.

(Question! If he listens, but doesn't do what he tells you, is that making you waste your breath?)

You won't lie to me, and if you do I'll make you regret it.

(Question! Why should he trust you with the truth?)

Whatever i do, it'll be for your own good. Yours, and not anyone elses.

(Question! How do you know that the things you do will trully be for his own good, and not just what you think will be? Elaida thought kidnapping him and holding him prison would be for his own good too.)

When Rand calls her on making promises threatening, she replies that he wants rules, as most boys do.

He will be polite to her and her guests, hold in his temper, and not channel at them; she holds the Asha'man to those same restrictions, and would punish him for their mistakes.

I know for a fact that she doesn't follow 2 of those rules herself. And I honestly can't remember if she ever loses her temper.

In other words; Rand was right to blow her off.


He also finds out what happens in the Sea Folk bargains. He's fine with the first two agreements. A mile square of land in cities with docks and not changing any laws. The other 2, that a Wave Mistress will accompany him at all times and that he will answer summons twice every 3 years he is not as pleased with.


Shortly after, Rand finds out Elayne is in Ceamlyn, and has removed his forces from there; he's sulking over Elayne, as Min rightly puts it.

He gets 5 more Aes Sedai to swear to him.

Then after that, a man attacks him.

Rand is not happy that Min was almost hurt, and tries to hunt them down.

Once he has identified him, and they've left, Rand goes to where he left Morr and Min.

Morr has regressed to the age of a child, and Rand is forced to euthinize him.

Its actually rather heart rending, considering Morr was saying not 1 hour ago that he was Rand's for life.


After that, we have Perrin, sorting out the Prophet, or trying to. Then Faile, kidnapped. Then Egwene beginning her invasion of Tar Valon.

 

[grant]

It's kinda weird. When Rand was doing the negotiating the Sea Folk could barely stop themselves from swearing everlasting fealty and when he left (due to claustrophobia) the Greys were described as pressing every advantage. When we find out what the final terms were... you have to wonder if the Sea Folk threatened to reveal that the Grey negotiators were secretly men. Not that great an endorsement of the Ajah designed for negotiations and treaties if they fuck up a deal where the other side has already been forced to admit that they absolutely need to make a deal.

Also note that the disaster with Callandor occurs just after Rand shouted the Dark One's name. Maybe it was his carelessness, maybe it was the flaw in Callandor that doesn't protect users from the influence of the power, maybe it was the oddity of the area that was affecting saidar and saidin (did they ever explain what that was?) or maybe it was something else.

As for his tactics... even if he intended to force his least trustworthy allies to suffer the most casualties he still could have brought a much larger force. Maybe set up better defenses against women who can also channel and have no compunctions about directly targeting your command (like a bunker perhaps).

 

[Ashaman]

Apparently, shortly after Rand left, the Sea Folk Shielded the Aes sedai, regained their composure, and were incredibly pissed that they were Ta'veren influenced.

You are right that they should have done better..


Wasn't the weirdness around Ebou Dar caused by the Bowl? Its never explicitly named that, but what else would it be?

And the reason Rand lost control is probably all of the above.

 

[grant]

I considered the Bowl but there's also Elayne's little 'BOOM accident' after the Bowl was used.

 

[Ashaman]

I discouted it, mostly because Elayne's weave would be a Saidar thing only.

The Wise One's are implied to practice this weave alot - failures won't be common, but they'd be well known about.

I imagine a failure fucking with Saidar would've come up at some point in the discussion.

Secondly, after use of the Bowl, Elayne mentios an oddity in her flows, but dismesses it as exhaustion.


Extra: Yeah, ust had a look at a theory page.

Apparently RJ explained it.

The Bowl was overtaxed beyond its intended use.

Its supposed to control the weather over an area, not the possibly global scale it was used on.

Q: The general consensus seems to be that the Bowl of Winds caused the weirdness in the power around Ebou Dar. Do we know enough at this time to determine the true cause or do we have to RAFO more info?
A: I think you know enough by this point. It is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. I always hated it when my math professors said that.

The Bowl: Someone asked him whether, if men had helped the Aes Sedai and Windfinders and Kin channel through the Bowl, the One Power would still have been screwed up. His implicit assumption was that the Bowl screwed things up. I expected this to be a sheer RAFO. I was surprised. He went into a relatively detailed explanation to the effect that the Bowl was stressed far, far beyond its original design parameters because of the
advanced knowledge of the Windfinders. It was affecting a global pattern, when it was designed for only a small region. Men helping would not have changed anything, and the effects linger most strongly near Ebou Dar, but
also along the "spokes" which radiated from that place.

I have no idea what the spokes are thuough.

 

[grant]

I'm surprised a device designed to affect something that small actually could impact the world.

 

[Ashaman]

Yeah, but it had a lot of power and an extremely skilled helmswoman.

I'll bring it into perspective.

The Bowl is a ter'angreal that was used to control the weather.

Moridin mentions that the Sea Folk's weather management is on the same level that what one of them can do alone would have needed a weather controlling ter'angreal to do.

I think of it like a car or something - With enough skill and additional power, it can exceed expectations, but its going to fuck something up.

 

[Ashaman]

I've started WH, and finished the prologue.

We begin with the WT's Black Ajah Hunt, making huge progress after successfully catching a Black.

Then we move onto Elayne, trying to salvage Andor and her candacy for Queen.

I keep finding it annoying that she gets angry at Rand for saying he'll give her the Lion Throne, when he's literally left her alone since she arrived, and hasn't interferred in the succession.

If I had to ask a question at this point, it would be: "If Rand hadn't killed Rahvin and then occupied and kept the peace in Andor/Caemlyn, would you be Queen? Or would someone have taken the throne in the months you've been too busy to stop by."

Anyway, Elayne meets the smug Sea Folk, the even more arrogant Taim, and then goes though a secondary birthing ritual.

And I find an urge to sigh.

An unneccessary comment on men during the ritual just makes me hang my head.

During the ritual, the two people:

Say what they like best about the other person.

Say what they hate about the other person.

Say what they are jealous of about the other person.

Say what they find childish about the other person.

Then they engage in a ritual slapping, once on each cheek, and they are given a final chance to back off and out of the ritual.

Then, for no reason whatsoever, the Wise One in charge brings up that "This is the point men usually go, if not sooner. Many women too."

And I'm like: Is this comment really neccessary?

Its double annoying because in my experience women are far more touchy about these things than men.

Well, my own experiences might bias my view, but really? What purpose is there to this comment except perhaps for the sexist comment itself.


Anyway, back to the book.

After the weird ritual is finsihed, ending with Elayne and Aviendha sucking Amys tits, we move onto a Red in the Black Tower.

This Red has been captured by Logain for the Black Tower, and they use the Warder Bond to control them.

Its kind of disturbing considering its bordering on Compulsion, but it becomes a gray area when you take into account that 1)Aes Sedai use Compulsion in Warder Bonds, and I'm a little unsure how much the Warders knew about that before hand.
2) the Aes Sedai are prisoners. 3) The men don't take advantage.

At the very least Logain doesn't.

We also learn that the BT is split into at least 2 factions - Taim's and Logain's - There might be more, plus who knows how many more don't realize that there are factions.

Oh, and this Red? Guess what? She's a shota-con. Or ebilophile. She has a thing for young pretty boys - readin it make me think she's after 16-17 year olds.

Then we finish the Prologue with Rand, sorting his shit out and making plans beofre telling Min that he's going to cleanse Saidin.

 

[grant]

Elayne is nicely ignoring the fact that without Rand, she wouldn't be able to claim the throne (because Rahvin was in the process of killing and compelling his way to openly holding it*) yes but Rand did make the mistake of suggesting that he could give the throne to whoever he chose when the political message that's supposed to be sent (by Elayne's camp) is that it is inherently Elayne's right to take the throne. It's a like the difference between, say, the UK helping the US regain Texas after a civil and saying 'we give Texas to the US' as opposed to 'we have helped our American allies restore democracy and reclaim their land'. Of course Morgase (under Rahvin's influence) did far more to ruin the situation but Rand still isn't going to get much thanks.
More importantly, if it weren't for Rand she wouldn't have any chance at the throne of Cairhien. Of course considering that the city is prone to plotting and treachery on a good day it might have been more intelligent for him to find a proxy intelligent enough to hold onto it who could be given a good display of exactly how much firepower Rand personally has if the proxy ever stepped out of line. But no, he decided to wait for Elayne which nearly backfired on him (of course he also might have avoided that backfire if Aviendha hadn't beaten up Colavaere when she answered Rand's summons).

As for the sibling ceremony, here's my favorite lines on it taken from Isam's spoof Wheel of Time summaries:

Sheriam: [Baring chest] I am a woman

Anaiya: [Baring chest.] I am a woman

Uno (a man): [Baring chest] I am a woman

Really a lot of Aiel culture seems just thrown together with some vague idea of what First Nations are supposedly like, sort of like Chakotay from Voyager.

And yes, more on how screwed up gender relations are! It's always a guess whether Jordan thought it was serious commentary or whether he thought this was humor.

I wonder how the Black Tower knew they were coming. Either the Aes Sedai were pretty awful at being subtle (which is entirely possible), the Black Tower has an extensive intelligence network (less probable considering its youth) or it was Taim's friends. In a way the Reds are actually lucky the Black Tower detected them. Being bonded is incredibly dubious morally but the alternative would have been them blown to pieces when they tried to attack.
And I still wonder exactly why Alanna couldn't compel Rand. Is it his dual-mind thing, his ability to channel, his inner stubbornness or something else?

*Really the guy sucked at politics. Even Sammael did a better job and he starved his nation so much that they crowned Rand just for the food.

 

[Ashaman]

And I've made some headway into WH actual.

Like, 200 pages, which it more than I thought. I'm about a thrid of thw way through. :huh:



The Perrin section was both good, and a bit of a slog.

I mean, its a rescue mission and possibly the final blow to the Shaido sub-plot that has been a thorn in Rand's (and everyone elses for that matter) for some time now. And the Light knows how that young man doesn't need that shit.

Its both important in the grand scheme of things, and on a personal level for Perrin, and certain bits are cool.

Perrin walking around with a murder face while both raging as much as a mildly angry Rand and trying to think things through and do his other duties was both a person moment of "Yeah, nice one man You have responsibilities." and "Holy shit, Perrin's livid. Run for the hills!"

But you know what? I don't really care that much. I want to see Rand lay down his 'cleanse saidin' plan, and Mat after missing him for a whole book.

Egwene or Elayne I care much less about, though Egwene and Perrin I care about more or less equally. Perrin might actually be above Egwene, but only just.

So that sub-plot is just beginning.

And then we do go to Elayne -who is an idiot. What's worse is that she's dragged Aviendha into her stupidity.

We are looking at this as a flashback as Elayne wanders Ceamlyn. Well, not flashback. Its being discussed as a "metaphorical" example of why Elayne needs to be more careful.

Apparently, she wanted to go out into the city at night, to mingle with the common folk.

I seem to recall Morgase mentioned shes done something similar.

And Elayne gets knocked out by a random guy who intended to rape her. Its implied the only reason she got away was that the guy didn't quite managed to hit Aviendha hard enough.

And she plans to do it again. :no:

Moving on, we have Elayne sorting domestic affairs, then an assissation attempt on her, then a conversation with Egwene.

We'll got on to that in a minute, a fist a couple of things.

Apparently, Rand (or Taim, not really sure) sent the captured damane and sul'dam to Ceamlyn, and though the sul'dam are of course in denial, the damane are just as dangerous because they are fanatically loyal to their sul'dam.

However, it seems 3 of them are starting to turn aroun, one of them even from Seanchen and even stronger in the Power than Nyneave.

Her we must keep our eyes on, yes?

We have a brief interlude where we find out Elayne intends to continue the School Rand was trying to found in Ceamlyn, which is cool, except she seems to think its her Academy. Or Andors. Cut the man a break; sheesh, she figures out his motivation of wanting to leave something behind, and Elayne is like "That's nice, but this is Andors, not Rand al'Thor's. I'll be naming it for my mother, thank you very much.

As sweet as the gesture is, its also kinda harsh in that these Academies are one of the truely good, none violent things Rand is doing with his power, and she's just sort of denying his involvement. In some ways, she's denying him a part of the legacy that she identifies Rand wants to level behind.

And the third thing is Elayne seems to think it would solve so many problems if Rand just kneeled to Egwene.

I, uh, what? :huh!:

First of all, why should Rand kneel to her? Second of all, it would cause a shit ton of problems. Rumours already hound Rand that he's an Aes Sedai puppet, and it caused him no end of trouble.

I know there is that Foretelling, saying Rand wil "face the ASeat, and know her anger" but the only thing I get from that is that Rand will be in for another Egwene style scolding.

My immediate reaction is annoyance, but who knows, he might even deserve it. Probably half as much as Egwene thinks, but he might.

This ties into the next bit, with Egwene, who takes charge of them; they recognise her authority.

They talk - then realize they are being spied on and break it off.

Nothing too important to note.


Then we get Rand, has infiltrated Caemlyn Palace with Min in order to speak with Nyneave and Mat.

Then Min runs off at the first opportuinty to get Elayne.

I'm torn, but mostly I'm "Go Min!"

Then we get Nyneave teaching Sea Folk - and god those lessons suck. She gets bested twice, which isn't too bad, except that the Sea Folk push it to make sure she isn't holding back on them, humiliating her for no real reason, and then we get the Seanchen woman introduced sending a message for the Kin, simply so they can needle Nyneave about the Sea Folk situation, and then the apprentice Nyneave was sparring against tells her she hates it and wants to go to the Tower, then takes Nyneave's half muttered "I'll see," as a promise.

Which is when Rand shows up and asks her to keep ahold of the Big Beast Sa'angreal ter'angreal.

And Nyneave is like.

Yeah, I'm coming with.

On a side note, the amount of trust Rand places in Nyneave is staggering, considering his fragile mental state and paranoia.

First, when he allows Nyneave to Delve him without complaint, and secondly when he tells Nyneave what it is he's trusting her to guard and what he plans to do with them.

I think more than anything else, its that trust, small as it is, that really gets to me this chapter.

That fact that so smalla trust got to me in such a way is something else entirely.

 

[grant]

Morgase did do the same. But Morgase did it at a time when rule of law was a lot stronger in the city* and probably not at night. And Elayne thinks things like a large bodyguard division are something to avoid and that hers has to be kept small. The only good arguments against the idea, specifically that there are very few women anywhere (besides the Aiel) who are skilled at fighting (much less being guards) and that the loyalty of women hired so quickly would be uncertain, is never mentioned. Yeah, Mat should have tied her up, thrown her over the back of a horse and forced her back to Caemlyn pronto.

And besides basically taking away credit from Rand for his academy (which is a real dick move) she doesn't seem to be able to get it through her pretty little head that her mother is unpopular. Morgase is the reason why she hasn't been able to legally confirm her status as queen**. Even if it wasn't Morgase's fault for what happened under Rahvin (again, guy didn't comprehend politics) most people still don't believe it. Constantly reminding people that Morgase was her mother is about as intelligent as Mitt Romney having a public duck hunt with Dick Cheney. Generally not sending the best sign. Redeeming Morgase's memory in history books and public memory can wait until after the Last Battle.

Between that and her thoughts on Rand it makes her supposed competence in politics later on baffling.

And something I've been wondering about for the Kin. I thought the majority of them were from girls who ran away from the Tower. So how could the Tower have so little idea of their numbers?


*I've always found the idea of the ruler going through the land disguised to be pretty stupid. Anyone stupid enough to believe that the mood in the city is the same as the mood across the country/empire is going to be caught by surprise when the food riots in the west and the tax denunciations in the south turn into a rebellion everywhere. The most the mood of the city can tell you is whether or not the people are going to open the gates and let in the sieging army. Anyone stupid enough to try to travel the land in disguise is leaving important state matters unattended. Basically you're either a city-state, where you just have to worry about the mood of one city, or you get people you trust to do this sort of thing for you.

**And remember that people don't know that Morgase privately abdicated in favor of Elayne a few books back before she attempted suicide. I'm not real sure what the point of any of it was since if she had succeeded no one would have known that she had abdicated.

 

[Ashaman]

I think the Kin thing is a combination of time and numbers.

They thought of the Kin as an orginisation made up o Tower rejects who stayed low and occasionally helped them out.

They didn't realize that the Kin were made up of most of the Tower rejects, if not practically all of them.

Furthermore, its one thing to know that the WT puts out 2-3 girls a year who don't make the cut, its another thing entirely to realize that the number comes close to 2000 active women altogether, and that some reach the extent of 600 years old.

Suddenly its not the 50-60 women they thought made up theKin, who helped out other rejects, its the dawning realization that its almost all the rejects in 600 years, who didn't just go their own way like they were supposed to, but instead joined a greater orginization.

 

[Ashaman]

Back to the book; Rand is confronted by his girlfriends in Nyneave's room.

Nyneave almost bursts a blood vessel when Rand admits he loves all 3 of them, and then is on the very point of fainting when the 3 girls are Okay with that.

Then the Bonding happens, and Elayne instantly goes "I want you inside me" afterwards.

Well, that's the message she sends.

Min also notes that she's going to have twins from this encounter, and Aviendha slips that next time she gets a chance, she's going to let Rand impregnate her.

Birgette is also pissed that Elayne is doing this to her, and they all stumble away to get sloshed.

The next morning, Elayne awakens, content as can be, only to find her stash of an/ter'angreal pillaged, Nyneave, Lan and the Seanchen woman all missing, and a worrying note in Nyneaves hand.


We have an interlude with Cadsuane, who is ingoring the Sea Folk screaming in front of her in order to think and plan, and we learn that an Asha'man who believes anything can be Healed healed Stilling.

So 2 independent impossibilities.

Then Alanna collapses, and everybody is like "Shit man, what the fuck do we do now?"


And then we have a meeting of the Forsaken. I think that the only ones who don't show up are Meesme and the dead ones.

Everyone else is there and wondering where the fuck Rand is, and if he really intends to do what they think he is, and how they think he'll do it.


Then we get introduced to Tuon, who is both nice and not nice, and Mat is back, still injured but almost mended.

Its nice to see Mat, even if he is being humiliated by Tylin and practically imprisoned.

He's also trying to figure out how to use fireworks as weapons.

Then the gholam attacks him out of nowhere and he meets a man by the name of Noal.


At some point we also get a glimpse of the Black's Warders, which I was asking about before.

One Dark Green mentions her 4 Warders are coming, but only one is a Darkfriend - they'll all listen to her anyway.

And a Dark Brown once let her Warder muffaling slip, leading the man straight to her in an attempt kill her, the consequences to himself be damned.

Badass Warders are Badass.

 

[grant]

Would have been amusing if the note read something like 'gone to cleanse saidin at Shadar Logoth, be back for lunch, trust no one'.

Still don't know why the bond is different between Birgitte and Elayne. Birgitte gets drunk, Elayne gets drunk. Elayne has sex, Birgitte feels it. Doesn't happen to other Aes Sedai. And for some reason Min and Aviendha can't ignore Rand's feelings (though maybe they just haven't been trained). Have to note that no one considered the possible impact of this on Alanna. Even if what she did is described as the saidar equivalent of attempted rape that's still showing a lack of concern.

 

[Ashaman]

In universe theory on the Birgette-Elayne thing is that they are both women, and its just made the bond more sensitive than it should be.

Actually, Aviendha can, she just needs to be reminded.

Min can't.

Neither can Birgette.

Rand doesn't even know its possible.

So I'm leaning towards you needing the One Power to do it, but who knows if Rand, the Warder in this equation, can pull it off.

Actually, what Alanna did is considered the Saidar equivilent of rape. This is flat out stated at least 2 times, probably more.

The disturbing part of it is that Cadsuane was considering it as a possible method of controlling Rand; yeah, 2 Aes Sedai (at least) were willing to rape Rand in order to control him.

Yeah, that's fucked up guys.

----


Continuing on, Tylin continues to piss me off.

At least other characters are starting to point out (if not actually do anything about it) that she's going much further than she really really should.

And Mat meets Tuon.

She immediately wants to buy him.

And when she sees his spear thingy, she wants that too. Alot.

Moving on somewhat, Mat is not a happy camper, but is still laying the foundations for his eventual escape - except now he's been saddled with getting 3 Aes Sedai out too.

He's not very pleased with that.

And Tuon is stalking him. Sort of. At the very least he meets up with her a dispropotionate number of times, and watches him from afar.

Yeah, Mat isn't exactly comfortable with that either.

And we dive into Seanchen politics with the various Seanchen we've met across the books, and Boyle, who is property, but mostly Egenins boyfriend.

Yeah, that's a slippery slope if I ever saw one.


Then we are back to Rand, who kills one renegade Asha'man, and almost another, who takes the guards coming as a chance to leg it - only to get killed by Fain. I think it was Fain anyway.

It was pretty fucking badass.

And then we meet up with Min and the rest, and she's like, I didn't feel anything along the Bond. No worry, no hate, no nothing.

And that's when the awesome moment gets turned to ash as you realize Rand is, in some ways, dead inside.

I don't mean that in any major "He's dead inside!" way, I mean it in a "If you can stalk, confront, kill, almost die, and then flee the police, and the women who can see inside your soul can't tell you've done anything more than go out for a stroll, there is something wrong" kind of way.