The Wheel Of Time

[grant]

I think Lan's mostly the same. At least he and Rand both have the same 'WTF' response to Nynaeve showing concern that, if it's possible, they'll stab their enemies in the back (literally). The Void and Flame trick might also have something to do with that (which also might be why Lanfear urged him to spend more time in that state in The Great Hunt).
Also Rand's been spending a good deal of time physically in the World of Dreams. There's no explanation given for why the Wise Ones think it makes you less human but that might have something to do with it.

 

[seitora]

And then right after comes the cleansing of saidin.

Give Cadsuane her props here - I distinctly recall she has a pretty nonchalant response when Rand announces his plan

 

[grant]

Considering he was discussing a plan that could literally break the world into pieces I'd say everyone's pretty casual about it. Maybe it's because it was a bit too large for their minds to grasp. The proper response would have been gibbering and going for Rand's throat.

 

[Belgarion213]

I think Lan's mostly the same. At least he and Rand both have the same 'WTF' response to Nynaeve showing concern that, if it's possible, they'll stab their enemies in the back (literally). The Void and Flame trick might also have something to do with that (which also might be why Lanfear urged him to spend more time in that state in The Great Hunt).
Also Rand's been spending a good deal of time physically in the World of Dreams. There's no explanation given for why the Wise Ones think it makes you less human but that might have something to do with it.

My PERSONAL thought on why the 'Being in the World of dreams physically' makes you less human is sort of the same reason Callandor is dangerous. Without being asleep your removing a kind of buffer, more than that though, stray thought can reshape reality in that place and while being physically there probably gives you some protection it probably makes you more vulnerable.

Think about the examples of novice dreamers whose stray thoughts changes their clothes, their ages , and even their surroundings. So the obvious thing to do is to get control of your thoughts and emotions, to 'still' them or something...I wonder what effect in a world where you could probably potentially change your body if you willed it enough that would have...

And yeah Rand being near permantly in the Oneness/Void is ....not a good thing.

 

[Ashaman]

I second the notion that Rand being permantly in the Void is Not Good, and in fact would like to bump that up to Terrible and Soul Crushing.

Moving on.

Cadsuane and co arrive in Far Madding, and I'll say this now.

I do not like this place.

Partially because any place where the Source can't touch lowers their effectiveness and drives them up the wall (and we'll leave the drug and addiction discussion alone).

Mostly because men are second class citizens, and I can't stand a culture where X can not do/be/go to Y because s/he is X.

Moving on, Cadsuane comnfirms that she is from Far Madding, and she has something on the Ruler to boot.

Then she goes to meet Rand with Alanna, and as stalkery as Alanna is Rand manages to get an update from her and then recieves Warders from her.

Cadsuane on the other hand tells Rand she is here for other business (untrue), gets him to ask a question nicely (I'm okay with this) slaps him for swearing (I am not okay with this. Bitch)

Well, apart from that bitchiness, she was more or less cool thes last 2 chapters. Sweet, I guess. :huh.:

Then we have Elayne. She's meeting Egwene, who is moving on the WT on the morrow. She's also gone mama bear on her unborn kid, not yet realizing their is two of them.

Elayne also mentions she's going to have to do something about the Two Rivers raising Manetheren.

I'm really kind of curious of what she would do if Perrin or Mat turned up and went "No, Manetheren stays."

Anyway, Elayne is mostly dealing with politics and the Borderland Army on her doorstep, and comes up with a decent use for them, one which they part way see through but don't mind being used that way.

Then Elayne hears news that an army is moving against her from the east. Crap.

 

[grant]

Clever, but someone needs to teach Elayne (and the king she borrowed it from) that temporary threats give you temporary unity. If she wants to hold her throne firmly she needs a more consistent threat.

And Elayne's lucky Perrin states later that he's not going to be trying to resurrect Manatheren. Of course I don't see anything other than Perrin's nature to keep him from going back on that but the book implied it was final.

And later in the book one of the Aes Sedai (I honestly forget which) tries to frighten Far Madding leaders with mentions of a previous False Dragon who took the city and they, like amateurs, fall for it completely. I get that politics has to be on a level the reader can understand but sometimes...

 

[Ashaman]

Sometimes I'm not sure if you are talking about future events, or have forgotten the order events take place in.

First of all, you can only call an idea clever if you come up with it.

Copying a seemingly clever idea... well, it depedns on the context, but in this instance at least, less than a month since she heard the idea... Yeah. Smart maybe, but not clever.


Next - Perrin has already said he doesn't intend to revive Manetheren, but the people around him certainly seem to want to. The Wolf is one thing, but the Banner is flying in Manetherens old territory, Mat is leading an army titaled after Manetherens most famous heros... I'm not going to lie, I think the Pattern wants Manetheren revived.

And the threat on Far Madding - well, Verin did that. And she didn't threaten so much as remind the leaders that a False Dragon has basically gone Fuck You to the Cities defenses in the past, and this True Dragon can do the same.

Except she never mentions it. Only implies the possibility.

Unless you are talking about a later book, and you could very well be, I don't know.

Next, were back to Mat.

Huzzah!

As Mat tries to think up, put together and execute his escape plan, things keep going wrong.

First Tylin leaves. Good.

Very quickly, everyone realizes he's leaving soon. Not so good.

Then, just as he finally gets hold of the things he needs - well, turns out one person can't use it so fuck.

Then, moments later he is introduced to Egenin; he quickly gets her number, and agrees o her her in exchange for sul;dam.

Fuck yeah ta'veren.

Then our Totally Not a Hero, Really, finishes his prep work and sets his new plan in motion.

Only Egenin has made a couple of small alterations, but then again, so has Mat, who frees a Sea Folk woman damane in order to wreck shit up and hopefully freedom. Yeah. Totally Not a Hero, Really is lying to himself a litte.

Then Tuon appears, gots called the DotNM and Mat is so shaken he calls her his wife.

Yeah, I don't know i I should laugh or cry at that.

Tuon is happy though, trussed up as she is.

She gets longer to get to know Toy.


Then we are back to Rand, who is having no luck finding his prey, and so when Verin appears, Rand bends his neck in order to get Cadsuane on his side.

Then someone sends him a letter saying exactly where his quarry is, and Rand, recognising it for the trap it is, goes to spring it with Lan.

Nyneave accompanies.

We get a brief interlude where Nyneave realizes that this is an execution, not a fight, and there is a single moment that made my respect for Nyneave go up a notch.

She tells the pair to kill them in their sleep if possible, and its gained my respect in a sort of "You understand why is needs to be done, even if you don't like it very much, and that's okay with me."

And then the two Asha'man are dead and Fain turns up, and then freky shit happens where the two Asha'man are alive and I'm like, did Fain resurrect them? Oh shit! but then he's fooled too, and gets away, even as Lan kills a blade master in the background, because fuck yeah that confrontaion isn't even worthy of appearing on screen.

Then the 2 flee, and Lan falls off a building, but I'll tell you what, when Rand grabs hold of him and almost falls himself, hold on by a single hand, and Lan says "Let me fall" and Rand replies "When the sun turns green" its just one of those Bro moments that remind me that Rand still cares for people under all that crazy/anger/self-loathing/pride/apathy.

And then we have Cadsuane literally holding Nyneave back from going to help Lan; Rand is locked in a very small cage and very calmly, very deliberately meditates.

And totures himself with the names of the women he's killed/died for him.

All to keep him from thinking on the Box.

Yeah.

Fuck.

Luckily Cadsuane breaks him out pretty quickly when Cadsuane bluffs the leader that they've figured out how to bypass the Cities No Channelling Device.

And now I'm about to start With the Choedan Kal.

Excuse me while I mentally prepare myself.

 

[Ashaman]

Yeah, still Fuck Tons Cool.

Rand basically being even crazier after his time in the cells is a minus.

As is Ebens death, against the man in a womans body whose name escapes me.

And another death, Kumire, rates lower on the sadness scale, but I liked her from the little I'd seen.

The biggest minus is the tradegy at Tremalking, but that's not until later.

Oh, and Elza was/is Black? Verin brainwashing at its finest, I assume.

Pretty much everything else was amazing though.

Cadasune directing the battle and sheilding Rand.

The roving bands of men and women Linked, Alivca (the Seanchen stronger than Nyneave) taking on Cyndane, Lanfears even crazier reincarnation.

Davashi being the other reborn forsaken from tEotW was a surprise - I'd forgotten all about that.

And now he is dead, and still nobady knows that the Forsaken can reincarnate, somewhat at least.

Measma absence from the battle was a surprise, but she is being incredibly secretive.

Also, I clocked Grendeal, but no Semirgate.

And yes, I am mangaling the Forsakens names, shut up.

Other than Mordin and those 2, everyone else was there, though Moghedian mostly sat it out.

Not sure if that was dumb or smart of her, TBH.

 

[grant]

Verin did mention the False Dragon taking the place. However it was very clearly a 'and here's another Dragon and guess who might be able to protect you from him? That's right, the Aes Sedai!' That rational response would have been to thank for for that unrequested advice and to politely ignore her.

And judging by what happens to Mesaana in the next book or two for not showing up for the battle I'd say it was a pretty dumb move on Moghedion's part ultimately. It also goes to show how incompetent these people can be and how they really can't work together. They could have just smothered the place with Trollocs and Myrdaal before spamming fire balls everywhere. If Rand can do those nice moves in the next book against the Trolloc army what's stopping the Forsaken?

What are you going to do after WoT? Song of Ice and Fire?

 

[Ashaman]

Well, that kinda is wht they did, considering they ignored the "Don't piss off the Dragon" warning.

It was hamfisted certainly, but Verin wasn't exactly going for subtle.

And the Trolloc/Mydraal plan is actually cleared up at one point, when we find out Shadowspawn can't travel through Gateways. It kills them.

They didn't know when and more importantly where Rand was going to do his thing, so they had no real time to effect a proper response.

And well, the Light had 3-4 Circles, ter'angreal, angreal and sa'angreal, a good defensive plan and, as much as a dislike Cadsuane, good leadership.

If the Forsaken had worked together, it might have been a different battle, but by the same token the Light was pressing pretty hard. Grouping together would have been dangerous.

 

[seitora]

6:45am MST Mountain Time on Wednesday the 28th of November

let's see if by this time next week you'll have managed to make it through IT

and by IT I mean Crossroads of Twilight of course

 

[Ashaman]

I started IT at appoxamately 12:10 British time, on the bus to work.

And its 19:26 now.

A Memory of Light is out 8th of January? Right?

So I have just less than 6 weeks to read CoT, KoD, TGS, ToM and possibly NS.

I think I timed this re-read really well.

I hope I'm done before the years end, giving me 1 week to digest and participate in the fandom in AMoL's countdown.

Depending on how fast I get through CoT, I might have to slow it down a little.

Now, I'm going to finish the section I'm on, then I'll do an update.

But first. No Jordan, may you RIP, a prolouge should not consist of a full 1/8 of your book.

 

[Ashaman]

We start off with an Arad Doman general, and I'm already lossed.

Considering Grendael is in Arad Domon, but this guy is well respected, being jerked around by the King, not a mindless slave and is working for the good of his kingdom, I'm going to assume he's one of the Light siders. Well, at least not of a Dark persuation.

He's making an alliance with Dragonswarn agianst the Seanchen, with some Taraboners on the side.

And that's vaguely cool.

Next is Valda of the White Cloaks, being a dick.

Then an update on Logain from the perspective of one of his captive Aes Sedai.

Logain wants to go recruiting, and wants nothing to do with Taim's "classes".

I passed this by the first time without picking up on the weirdness of Logain being invited to Taim's private lessons, which I could only assume at the time are some weird "We're planning a coup against Rand" seminar or something.

Older and wiser, I still don't know what is happening there, but hey, something is going on.

Unless the guy was taunting or threatening Logain with them. And that only makes sense if there is more to it than that.

Next is an update on the White Tower Black Hunt, which has made very little progress, except to introduce the weirdness in the Hall on the other side of the rebellion.

And its about this point that I realized that this is all pre-cleansing stuff.

The lack of mention of the pants wettingly huge amonts of the One Power being used were the biggest clues.

Then Gawyn, who is in exile from the Tower, and yet Elaida apparently wants him. He agrees, because he realizes that the Tower has strings on him that can't be cut.

And the Black Hunt and Gawyn segments take place days apart from each other, seeing as the Rebels haven't arrived in one yet in the other they are beginning their seige.

Then we move onto the start of the seige of Ceamlyn, learning that the one who is to be Queen is not the 2 most likely candidates; its someone else much lower on the totem pole.

And some tries to have Bashere's wife killed. Not cool.

 

[Ashaman]

And now we've moved on to Cadsuane's overseer in Cairhein, and my initial impression of her is not exactly good.

Which is ashame, because further reading leads me to conclude she's the one that offered to have Flinn's babies if he taught her that dagger wound warding trick from ACOS.

Apart from being Cadsuane's hand there, which is not a plus but not a big negative either, she calls the notion of Stewards ridiculous, thinks to herself that she doesn't care about Cairhein, only Illian (at least, implied she only cares about Illian) and while I respect her opinion on trying to keep the peace in Cairhein, she's also still in the "I am an Aes Sedai, therefore I feel a humoungous need to control everything" stage.

Which is not my faviourite stage in Aes Sedai development.

Anyway, she is in a meeting with Rand's Aes Sedai, a Red, who is trying to convince a third party to take action.

Which leaves me in the strange predicament of supporting a Red against a Yellow.

Yeah, I know.

Then news of an Ogier and his human travelling companion appear, and holy shit its Loial, who I haven't seen since ACOS.

He's travelling with an Asha'man, and I can only assume they are fucking with the Ways somehow, which is all good.

And then news of Dobraines death makes its way to them (not quite greatly exaggerated) and the Yellow somewhat returns to my good graces as she saves his life.

And then we have a fine confrontation between the Asha'man Karldin and the 2 Aes Sedai when they demand to know what the two have been up to - which ends when news of Logain appearing reaches them.

 

[Ashaman]

I'm going to bed early cause I have to be up early, so I'll just do chapter 1.

But first.

I've only really just realized that WH is almost entirely Egwene free.

She shows up in one chapter, where Elayne is the POV character, and her part in that chapter is small, serving almost exclusively as an update on where the Rebels are and that they are moving tomorrow.


Okay, its a Mat chapter, and there isn't a whole lot to say.

Mostly its Mat remembering his flight from Ebou Dar, and the consequences of freeing the Sea Folk (many of them dead), and how things stand right now.

And Mat is still injured.

 

[Ashaman]

We continue with Egeanin and Mat having a power struggle; Egeanin is giving orders, but Mat is pretty much ignoring those orders or giving conflicting orders.

So far Mat seems to be winning.

Mat also has to deal with Aes Sedai (mostly avoiding them) and after a few days, he goes to meet Tuon, and they come to an agreement.

Then the Aes Sedai call him over and tell him in what direction to go, eventually reluctantly adding the reason - The Ginormous amout of Power being used in the North.

Mat knows its Rand with the Fan of colours, and tells them they are continuing on.

The Seanchen Seeker appears again, getting more things only just wrong and ends up setting a general and a small army after Tuon.


Then we bounce back to Perrin, who, after using Travelling in order to catch up to the Shaido, is trying very hard not to go crazy. And apparently plotters are plotting without him, which causes him to spy on everybody.

I feel kinda bad for him, because desperate need to get Faile back is actually hurting his relationship with his people.

 

[Ashaman]

Perrin discovers that Darkhounds circled his camp and went on, hunting who or what, I don't know. Well, we later get exposition on Darkhounds, and that's quite cool.

Perrin also discusses things with Berelian, and gets a letter declaring that this guy is high up on the Seanchen Emperesses Good Guy list.

Yeah.

And then we have a confrontation with the Prophet, which doesn't really go anywhere except making it clear that Perrin will not be detered.

Then we find out that the Shaido are camped in a town, and when they go to look there are thousands of them, and at the moment they are pretty clueless.

Then a whirlpool of colour fucks with Perrin, showing him Rand and Nyneave, and the next thing he knows his Asha'man and a Wise One/some Aes Sedai are talking about massive uses of power up north, and Perrin tells them its Rand, he's handalling his shit, no you are not to go up there, we're dealing with my kidnapped wife.

Its a good moment, and so far one of the few - "Ah, cool" moments of the book.

 

[Lu_2007]

And now we've moved on to Cadsuane's overseer in Cairhein, and my initial impression of her is not exactly good.

Which is ashame, because further reading leads me to conclude she's the one that offered to have Flinn's babies if he taught her that dagger wound warding trick from ACOS.

Apart from being Cadsuane's hand there, which is not a plus but not a big negative either, she calls the notion of Stewards ridiculous, thinks to herself that she doesn't care about Cairhein, only Illian (at least, implied she only cares about Illian) and while I respect her opinion on trying to keep the peace in Cairhein, she's also still in the "I am an Aes Sedai, therefore I feel a humoungous need to control everything" stage.

Which is not my faviourite stage in Aes Sedai development.

Anyway, she is in a meeting with Rand's Aes Sedai, a Red, who is trying to convince a third party to take action.

Which leaves me in the strange predicament of supporting a Red against a Yellow.

You got two things wrong here

One: it's Samitsu Tamagowa of the Yellow Ajah that offers to have Flinn's babies not Cadsuane

Two: she'a from the Green Ajah even if she is one of the aes sedai that has captured and gentled quite a lot of male channelers; more than four reds combined (the number depends on the source)

Then news of an Ogier and his human travelling companion appear, and holy shit its Loial, who I haven't seen since ACOS.

He's travelling with an Asha'man, and I can only assume they are fucking with the Ways somehow, which is all good.

The only time Loial messed with a Waygate is in The Shadow Rising and he was with Gaul, not with an Ashaman.

This said if you want a good website with info about the WoT go and check the Encyclopedia WOT it may help you with the who's who and the what's what.

<a href='http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/</a>

 

[grant]

In the Egeanin vs. Mat fight it helps that Mat, well, has actual authority.

And the darkhounds. Really cool monsters that haven't done anything since... maybe The Dragon Reborn?

 

[Ashaman]

And now we've moved on to Cadsuane's overseer in Cairhein, and my initial impression of her is not exactly good.

Which is ashame, because further reading leads me to conclude she's the one that offered to have Flinn's babies if he taught her that dagger wound warding trick from ACOS.

Apart from being Cadsuane's hand there, which is not a plus but not a big negative either, she calls the notion of Stewards ridiculous, thinks to herself that she doesn't care about Cairhein, only Illian (at least, implied she only cares about Illian) and while I respect her opinion on trying to keep the peace in Cairhein, she's also still in the "I am an Aes Sedai, therefore I feel a humoungous need to control everything" stage.

Which is not my faviourite stage in Aes Sedai development.

Anyway, she is in a meeting with Rand's Aes Sedai, a Red, who is trying to convince a third party to take action.

Which leaves me in the strange predicament of supporting a Red against a Yellow.

You got two things wrong here

One: it's Samitsu Tamagowa of the Yellow Ajah that offers to have Flinn's babies not Cadsuane

Two: she'a from the Green Ajah even if she is one of the aes sedai that has captured and gentled quite a lot of male channelers; more than four reds combined (the number depends on the source)

Then news of an Ogier and his human travelling companion appear, and holy shit its Loial, who I haven't seen since ACOS.

He's travelling with an Asha'man, and I can only assume they are fucking with the Ways somehow, which is all good.

The only time Loial messed with a Waygate is in The Shadow Rising and he was with Gaul, not with an Ashaman.

This said if you want a good website with info about the WoT go and check the Encyclopedia WOT it may help you with the who's who and the what's what.

<a href='http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/</a>

You realize that on the first point, I was talking about Samitsu the entire time, right?

I know I didn't mention her name, but Samitsu = Cadsuane's overseer in Cairhein in the prologue of COT.



On the second point, I'm guessing. Loial has literally just come back from a 2 book absence in the company of an Asha'man name Karldin. They mention that they've done the task Rand assigned "as well as they were able", and since Rand was screwing around with the Ways in LOC, shortly before Loial disappears in ACOS, I'm putting the 2 together.

My theory is that Loial is in charge of finding the Ways enterences, while Karldin Wards them/gets close to them by Travelling.

And the darkhounds. Really cool monsters that haven't done anything since... maybe The Dragon Reborn?

TSR actually.

If they appeared in FOH or LOC I can't remember them.

 

[Ashaman]

Carrying on, we visit Faile, who is not doing well at all.

She's trying, but every attempt she makes just kind of fails.

Though her near rape was "Dude, WTF." Then another guy, the one her initially made her gai'shin saves her and then most likely starts courting her.

Yeah, fucking weird.

Next we move onto Elayne and Aviendha, who are doing the rounds in Andor, trying to rouse support.

And then they feel the massive quontaties of the power that is being used in the west, and Elane's immediate reaction is to go to him.

I appreticate the sentiment, but Aviendha makes the excellent point that they know fuck all of what si going on, maybe Rand is handaling it, and even if they did go, right that second, they could be walking into anything and just get in the way.

Then we carry on with the succession plotline, and Elayne must continue to deal with Aes Sedai, Kin and Windfinders, all being bitches who can't get along. Not really.

Then Elayne, Birgette and Aviendha go into the bath, talk about some vague interesting and plot importantish points, then get interrupted.

The Sea Folk come in to tell them they have to go, but stick around long enough strike a deal that is mutually beneficial.



Yeah, I'm not bored, but I'm not exactly excited either.

 

[seitora]

It was around the time that RJ wrote out that scene where Faile is held in that stock thing outdoors naked as punishment that I realised he was a perverted bastard.

 

[grant]

It was around the time that RJ wrote out that scene where Faile is held in that stock thing outdoors naked as punishment that I realised he was a perverted bastard.

Read his Conan stuff.

It's actually a bit weird, in an earlier book Verin mentioned to a captive Aes Sedai that the Aiel didn't have the faintest idea what was humiliating for a Wetlander and that it hadn't occurred to them that being naked could be a punishment.

 

[seitora]

I get the sense the Shaido learned fast since they entered the Wetlands. If I recall when they capture Faile and the other girls in PoD they cut her clothing apart and bind her with it and make her hobble through the snow or something like that.

Also

38 days remain

 

[Ashaman]

Seitora has the right of it.

There is a passage laying out that the Shaido were quick to ferret out what would humiliate a wetlander.

And seitora, really, 10 books to figure that out?

Didn't the harem, the copious amounts of nudity and gradually lowering necklines clue you in?


In other news, KoD was not available in any of my local book stores.

I order it, TGS, TOM and pre-ordered AMOL.

I should have done this much earlier, considering it was cheaper.