The Wheel Of Time

[Ashaman]

After a brief point where its revealed Whitecloaks were responsible for the death of Perrin's family (or at leat Fain's little pribate band of Whitecloaks) we find that Fain is torturing a Fade; and has apparently broken it.

I'll give Fain this, he went from ordinary Darkfriend to blabbering madman and emerged a Fucking scary guy. I personally wonder what the Dark One thinks about him.

Perrin comes into his ta'vereness now that Rand is not around, and becomes a leader of men; Verin treats it like a great learning experience, which is just like a Brown to do.

After a meeting with Luc, who seems to recognise Perrin somehow, (most likely from the dream, but not for sure) Perrin sneaks in and out of the Whitecloak camp to rescue the Cauthons and the Blacksmith + his wife.

Then we are back to Rand and Mat, who don't get a very good reception from pretty much anyone; first of all, Mat and Rand come out with weapons, at least weapons of a sort; second, Rand has been confirmed for Chief of Chiefs, but that also means the end of the Aiel, in a way; thridly, one of the Aiel is furious because he sees Rand as a wetlander, and were his family member/leader has failed, he refuses to believe Rand could succeed.

After that we get some context on Rand's visions, and then we come around to Rand asking about his biological parents; his mother a wetlander who had to abandon her first son, and his father, a young but influential Clan Chief who blamed himself for his wife's death, and died in the Blight. From the description, it was Rand's unlce on his mother's side of the family. Luc.

Then we learn that Rand and Mat have been in there 7 days, and Rand is pissed because it means he lost those days, and his enemies may be planning something. They might have figured out his plan, which Rand thinks is very very bad because it means he loses the element of surprise.

Eventually, Avendha and Moraine appear, tight lipped about their own visions, and our focus switches back to Egwene.

First as she contacts Elayne, and apparently they will be arriving in 2 or 3 days, then she gets a lecture from Amys, who is not pleased that Egwene is doing what she shouldn't.

Finally we finish up in a way I should be expecting about now. A meeting of women on the best way to guide (read control) Rand. Egwene scores points for asking the question; "Does he really need to be guided?"

The answer the Wise One's give is that yes, he does, obviously, because he doesn't know enough not to make a hundred mistakes that will lead the Aiel to reject him.

Unfortunately for my respect for them, instead of deciding to teach Rand the things he must know, they instead decide to spy on him in hopes of discovering his plans to better <s>control</s> guide him.

 

[Ashaman]

The next 2 chapters bounce between Rand and Mat's POV.

Rand is considering the best way to deal with Aviendha, who is he knows is spying on him; what he's more bemused by is that he thinks the women wont know he's spying on him; and he's right. When they first proposed the idea, they used Aviendha because she's pretty and they thought that would be enough to distract him.

What bothers him more though is that she keeps bringing Elayne into the conversation, and he'd rather not discuss his love life, thank you very much.

And then we switch to Mat's POV, where we see that from the outside, all those raging thoughts in Rand's head about what to do, and how to do it, and what's bothering him etc.

He says some of them aloud, and its really freaking Mat out.

Then the peddlers make their enterance; Mat buys himself a fancy hat, and Rand is immediately suspicous of these people.

He calls the leader, Kadere, a man with dangerous eyes, and mentions that they ride with evil now, and that time is an enemy, since it lets his enemies lay snares.

It sounds like a bunch of nonesense to Mat, but no doubt it makes sense to Rand.

Then we are back to Rand for awhile, but its mainly just discovering that trollocs have raided days or weeks ago, and while highly unusal, there is nothing they can do about it now. And then Aviendha pisses Rand off a bit more and he decides to annoy her by practicing his sword forms.

Oh, and one last thing; Moraine uses her blue jewel thing to spy on Rand as well. Maybe they realised that Aviendha might not be 100% suited to this role.

Then we switch back to Mat, who talks to the gleeman that travels with the peddlers wagons. At the gleemans insistance, he speaks of Rhuidean, in ever increasing detail...

Then the gleeman graces them with an old song of Manerathen, and Mat muses to himself on some of the changes he's gone though, most unsettaling of which are the memories of other men in his head, men long dead, his mind continually wondering into army situations, and his new mastery of the Old Tongue.

I get the feeling that Mat's mastery of the Old Tongue was better than he ever thought it was, but its only just now that he's realised he is fluent.

Then trollocs attack. Nothing too noteworthy there.

Then we are briefly back to Rand, who knows that the Trollocs are there for him, and stone blocks Moraine when she feels the need to tell her so.

Then is bemused when Egwene tries to tell him to stop infuriating Aviendha; she's the one who keeps bringing Elayne up.

Of course, knowing the reason why is most amusing.


Why is it that pretty much all the main characters romances in this series are decided by prophecy.

Min and Aviendha certainly; Elayne is alittle bit harder to judge.

Mat and Tuon certainly too.

You can even make an argument for Perrin, what with the Falcon thing.


I think I'll finish off for the night there, seeing as the next chapter we go back to N_E, who we have been neglecting for a very long time.

 

[grant]

Never was sure whether or not it was cheap to just have every romance foretold by something.

And Aviendha is definitely not just a spy. Of course she isn't very good at that job, but that's why they have alternative methods.

 

[Belgarion213]

Nods. Aviendha is a pretty poor spy, both from Rand being more intelligent than they gave him credit for, and her own issues and attitude. I like her though, at least she's more interesting than Elayne.

 

[seitora]

Unfortunately for my respect for them, instead of deciding to teach Rand the things he must know, they instead decide to spy on him in hopes of discovering his plans to better <s>control</s> guide him.

And every time somebody decides they need to control Rand, it ends blowing up in their faces.

Moiraine trying to get him to Illian? lolno let's go conquer Tear

Elaida trying to kidnap him? lolno bitch Imma destroy your army and capture your sisters

Cadsuane trying to hedge him into whatever? lolno I'm going to completely out of left field surprise you with a plan to cleanse saidin and destroy Shadar Logoth which ends up being successful

 

[grant]

Nods. Aviendha is a pretty poor spy, both from Rand being more intelligent than they gave him credit for, and her own issues and attitude. I like her though, at least she's more interesting than Elayne.

Aviendha and Min both had time to actually develop their relationships with Rand. With Elayne... well apparently they spent time not so secretly playing kissing games after The Dragon Reborn before Rand left for the Waste. Too bad Jordan didn't spend any time showing us that, Elayne really screwed up her message to him (although I think you would have to be not just brain dead but a brain zombie to think that letter was a good idea) and then they spent what, five or six books apart before meeting again.

 

[Ashaman]

Yeah; credit where its due; Faile, Tuon, Aviendha and Min all had time to develop in relation to their love interests.

Elayne had a comparitively much shorter time, and it was off screen most of the time.

I still haven't found out what was in those letters, beyond one of them being love dovey and the other being hardassy.

Something mentioned by Egwene that I forgot to comment upon:

After finding out from Elayne that the Sea Folk have One Power users, Egwene wonders to herself why Aiel and Sea Folk channellers have such good standing in their communities when compared to Aes Sedai.

It was an effort not to close the book for a time cradle my head in my hands to try and divert myself from the sheer stupidity.

Maybe its because Wise Ones and Wind Finders do not spend the majority of their time treating people like chess pieces, are not generally arrogant manipulators and provide an actual service to society.

 

[grant]

I still haven't found out what was in those letters, beyond one of them being love dovey and the other being hardassy.

I don't think we ever actually are told exactly what was in the text of the second letter, except that Elayne might have mentioned that she couldn't stand him. After the flirting and kissing and first letter expressing love for him. All in all I'd say Rand's response was fairly restrained, all he did was possibly unconsciously start a major storm. I would have gone to the Blight and nuked a few dozen kilometers with balefire after finding out that this was apparently my love life.

And Elayne wrote that letter in response to seeing Lan and Nynaeve argue before Lan emotionally (extremely oddly for him) declared his love and possibly kissed Nynaeve. So yeah, there are reasons why Min is my favorite of the three. The worst she does is tease him.

Edit.
The Wise Ones do manipulate, but they also seem to play a more open social role in Aiel society and a place like the Waste doesn't let you off for wasting valuable resources.

 

[Ashaman]

I still haven't found out what was in those letters, beyond one of them being love dovey and the other being hardassy.

I don't think we ever actually are told exactly what was in the text of the second letter, except that Elayne might have mentioned that she couldn't stand him. After the flirting and kissing and first letter expressing love for him. All in all I'd say Rand's response was fairly restrained, all he did was possibly unconsciously start a major storm. I would have gone to the Blight and nuked a few dozen kilometers with balefire after finding out that this was apparently my love life.

And Elayne wrote that letter in response to seeing Lan and Nynaeve argue before Lan emotionally (extremely oddly for him) declared his love and possibly kissed Nynaeve. So yeah, there are reasons why Min is my favorite of the three. The worst she does is tease him.

Edit.
The Wise Ones do manipulate, but they also seem to play a more open social role in Aiel society and a place like the Waste doesn't let you off for wasting valuable resources.

Nah man, Rand didn't do anything in relation to Elayne's letters, not even subconciously.

Plunging Callandor into the Stone was something Elayne initially thought he did because of her, but it was his plan all along.

It both goes to show how retarded that letter must be if she thought he'd rage that hard over it, and/or how little faith she has in Rand's mental fortitude.

And maybe kissed Nyneave?

Lan kissed her so hard he almost had to hold her up afterward.



And yeah, Wise Ones manipulate, but they have nothing on Aes Sedai in that regard.

Its the diference between manipulating your husband to do the dishes, and manipulating your neighbours entire family to clean your house once a week forever, while you watch.

I think the difference is that the Wise One's are also more social and interactive with their people.

Some of them are married. They heal people. They serve as a means of communication, if neccessary. They also live among their people.

Aes Sedai all live in one place, and your normal man or woman would be lucky to meet one in their lifetime.

It doesn't help that many of them do relatively little.

The Blues play at polatics. (Manipulate it is the general impression, however true you think that is) The Red's hunt channelling men. (which is both neccessary but gives men in general cause to hate/fear them).

As for the other Ajahs...

Well, are the majority of Greens in the Borderlands?

Do the Yellows go out and do releif work in war torn places?

Do the Browns set up schools or go out to teach people all the things they've learned?

The Grays (I think) mediate between people. But how successful are they at that? How much of it do the people see?

And the Whites? What the fuck do they even do? I know they are the logical resoners, but what does that even mean in relation to their role in the world?



I left off in Tanicho, and I was right that we were back to N_E, but not quite yet.

First we stop in with a Seanchen who has discovered the Sul'dam's secret; Bors, the Whitecloak Darkfriend from GH, who is seeking Rand, thinking they are with the Dragonsworn in Tarabon or Arad Domon, and finally Liandrin, who wants to take over the Panarch's palace to find the method of controlling Rand they've devised.

The Seanchen woman was interesting, if only because we learn more about Seanchen culture.

Bors and Liandrin are both as vile as I remember them being, but don't really add anything new either, except that Liandrin is from a very poor and common birth.

Anyway, N_E arrive with Thom and Julin immediately going into protective mode.

Its a bit much, so I understand Elayne's irritation.

That said, I also smiled at Thom and Julins response to finding out that they were hunting the Black Ajah.

They expressed doubts that a couple of incompentent girls could handle it.

The two were not happyat being called incompetant; If I was Thom, I'd have pointed out that the last time they tried this they got captured and had to be rescued by Mat, even if it would have gotten me the telling off of my life.

And I lol'd later on, when Elayne got so drunk that Nyneave had to dunk her head in a bucket of water to sober her up a bit. Cruel but effective.

Oh, and Nyneave has a surprise meeting with Slayer, who shoots at her, injuring her arm.

And we also get two blasts from the pasts. Domon Bayle, who Nyneave threatens while Elayne convices with kind words, and Gelb, who got kicked off Bayle's ship in EotW. He works for the Seanchen woman now.

Then, all too quickly we are back with Perrin, who, true to his word, has been hunting Trollocs; until one day the Trollocs laid a trap for him.

Out of party of 78(ish), 28 die and many more are injured besides, including Perrin.

Perrin also gets a good look at Slayer, who looks like Lan.

So I'm guessing its Rand's uncles body (Luc's), but Lan's cousin's soul (Isam)

So he looks like Luc in the waking world, but Isam in the Dream World.

I found the Perrin Faile romance quite touching these last few chapters; they are getting along much better, and have opened up atlot more.

 

[grant]

Nah man, Rand didn't do anything in relation to Elayne's letters, not even subconciously.

Plunging Callandor into the Stone was something Elayne initially thought he did because of her, but it was his plan all along.

It both goes to show how retarded that letter must be if she thought he'd rage that hard over it, and/or how little faith she has in Rand's mental fortitude.

And maybe kissed Nyneave?

Lan kissed her so hard he almost had to hold her up afterward.



And yeah, Wise Ones manipulate, but they have nothing on Aes Sedai in that regard.

Its the diference between manipulating your husband to do the dishes, and manipulating your neighbours entire family to clean your house once a week forever, while you watch.

I think the difference is that the Wise One's are also more social and interactive with their people.

Some of them are married. They heal people. They serve as a means of communication, if neccessary. They also live among their people.

Aes Sedai all live in one place, and your normal man or woman would be lucky to meet one in their lifetime.

It doesn't help that many of them do relatively little.

The Blues play at polatics. (Manipulate it is the general impression, however true you think that is) The Red's hunt channelling men. (which is both neccessary but gives men in general cause to hate/fear them).

As for the other Ajahs...

Well, are the majority of Greens in the Borderlands?

Do the Yellows go out and do releif work in war torn places?

Do the Browns set up schools or go out to teach people all the things they've learned?

The Grays (I think) mediate between people. But how successful are they at that? How much of it do the people see?

And the Whites? What the fuck do they even do? I know they are the logical resoners, but what does that even mean in relation to their role in the world?

The storm's timing was pretty convenient and Rand certainly is mentioned to be... unhappy.

As for the 'maybe' it's been a while since I've actually read the books so I wasn't sure if the kiss was in that chapter or some other.

Yellows might go out and help people fleeing wars or they might focus on academic medical studies at the White Tower or both. They certainly went out during the Aiel War to heal everyone they could (though everyone did that).

Browns seem to have a focus on preserving knowledge and sometimes setting up libraries. Given the setting they might have the right idea. Bit hard to set up major schools anywhere outside the cities and what knowledge from the past they have is so fragmented (not to mention occasionally dangerous) that it would be hard to teach many people.

At least some of the Greys were involved in trying to reestablish some kind of peace treaty between nations in the wake of the Aiel War but were unsuccessful. From mentions in books they have been involved in different negotiations in the past.

Whites, Whites I think are more academic philosophers. My guess is that their organization survives a lack of direct relevance to the world through inertia and the disconnect between the Aes Sedai and the general world. I'd assume that they also try to study Saidar itself but who knows?

 

[Belgarion213]

Yeah, the White's I get the idea's they are more philosophers ore students of logic, not really interacting with 'normal' people. Grey's act as mediators, and I guess that's not just between nation but business people as well (those that don't fear them that is.)

Brown's are both preserving and recovering knowledge. Now how they interact with the rest of the world is a bit difficult to judge. Rands 'school' was something of a unique idea IIRC, gathering all the academics together so I doubt the browns do that. Now whether they go tutor people.

The Greens being 'the battle ajar' seems a bit presumptive, but I would guess some spend time in the Borderlands but how many is difficult to tell.

 

[Ashaman]

Nah man, Rand didn't do anything in relation to Elayne's letters, not even subconciously.


It doesn't help that many of them do relatively little.

The Blues play at polatics. (Manipulate it is the general impression, however true you think that is) The Red's hunt channelling men.? (which is both neccessary but gives men in general cause to hate/fear them).

As for the other Ajahs...

Well, are the majority of Greens in the Borderlands?

Do the Yellows go out and do releif work in war torn places?

Do the Browns set up schools or go out to teach people all the things they've learned?

The Grays (I think) mediate between people.? But how successful are they at that?? How much of it do the people see?

And the Whites?? What the fuck do they even do?? I know they are the logical resoners, but what does that even mean in relation to their role in the world?

The storm's timing was pretty convenient and Rand certainly is mentioned to be... unhappy.

As for the 'maybe' it's been a while since I've actually read the books so I wasn't sure if the kiss was in that chapter or some other.

Yellows might go out and help people fleeing wars or they might focus on academic medical studies at the White Tower or both. They certainly went out during the Aiel War to heal everyone they could (though everyone did that).

Browns seem to have a focus on preserving knowledge and sometimes setting up libraries. Given the setting they might have the right idea. Bit hard to set up major schools anywhere outside the cities and what knowledge from the past they have is so fragmented (not to mention occasionally dangerous) that it would be hard to teach many people.

At least some of the Greys were involved in trying to reestablish some kind of peace treaty between nations in the wake of the Aiel War but were unsuccessful. From mentions in books they have been involved in different negotiations in the past.

Whites, Whites I think are more academic philosophers. My guess is that their organization survives a lack of direct relevance to the world through inertia and the disconnect between the Aes Sedai and the general world. I'd assume that they also try to study Saidar itself but who knows?

I've looked it over again, and from Deceptions to Beyond the Stone, there isn't really a mention of a strom.

I didn't re-read it, but the weather on the day they all left from Tear is described as sunny with white clouds.



I think the different Ajahs probably do go out into the world in order to heal/seek knowledge/defend the realm, but if they do they don't exactly do it in great or note worthy numbers.

Can you imagine what it would be like if a single Green and her Warders were stationed in a rotation, one in every country of the Borderland, or better yet, one for every major fort.

Or a Yellow or 2 stationed semi-permanently in every major city.

200 years of that, a single life time for an Aes Sedai, and imagine the good-will that would accumulate.

That said, its a prolem of numbers.

And there is also the problem of ratio.

Sea Folk and Aiel have smaller populations, and haven't spent the last 3000 years accidentally breeding the ability out of people.

 

[Belgarion213]

Yeah, breeding the ability out of the population and then complaining that nobody was as strong as the age of legends was always kind of amusing in its way. Was it in the proper books that it was mentioned that somebody had proposed breeding the severed men who could channel brought to tower?

Hmm...though the Aiel had wise ones bearing children, and the like, and the Sea Folk the same, accounting to their wider degree of those with talent and their stronger power...

Elayne is a freak of nature.

Nynaeve is as strong as a Forsaken/Chosen, aka one of the strongest channelers ever. We know that Aviendha/Egwene/Elayne are ROUGHLY hovering around the same level of power. Of those people, only Elayne is not blessed with OLD/ancient blood. Though I guess there's the fact that the line she's been in has been tower trained for generations...

OH well I'm probably just rambling here.

Really a dozen Aes Sedai in the borderlands, especially for things like Tarman's Gap would probably be so much more useful than whatever the greens are doing...it would probably have been pushing the Blight back. Remember Ishtar became a dark friend because nobody else seemed to care about how much damage the borderlands were taking. Aes Sedai would have been a godsend.

 

[grant]

Greens do seem to spend a large amount of time in the Border lands. Probably not a coincidence that the people and rulers there have largely positive views of Aes Sedai. If your culture largely defines itself on fighting endless wars against monsters that will do things to you wish weren't speakable you quickly learn to STFU and welcome the manipulative, fireball throwing women.

Nynaeve is as strong as a Forsaken/Chosen, aka one of the strongest channelers ever. We know that Aviendha/Egwene/Elayne are ROUGHLY hovering around the same level of power. Of those people, only Elayne is not blessed with OLD/ancient blood. Though I guess there's the fact that the line she's been in has been tower trained for generations...

That was retconned (or revealed if you want to be charitable) to the Forsaken not being the most powerful (though some of them were) but the ones that survived the war and the Dark One's suspicions.

 

[Belgarion213]

Oh I know that but they were AMONGST the most powerful. They were the survivors of the Chosen, not always the most powerful but they were all pretty powerful, and Nynaeve wasn't at the low end of the power scale in that group (though she wasn't at Lanfear's 'nearly as strong as a woman can possibly be' level either.)

 

[Watashiwa]

Nynaeve wasn't at the low end of the power scale in that group (though she wasn't at Lanfear's 'nearly as strong as a woman can possibly be' level either.)

Actually Alivia is the freak of nature, Lanfear and Nynaeve are standouts and Egwene/Aviendha/Elayne are merely powerful. The Andoran nobility has had talent in the One Power for generations and she happened to have the right parental combination.

 

[seitora]

Yeah, breeding the ability out of the population and then complaining that nobody was as strong as the age of legends was always kind of amusing in its way. Was it in the proper books that it was mentioned that somebody had proposed breeding the severed men who could channel brought to tower?

It was mentioned in one of the later books I think, a Yellow who had proposed it. I think it was mentioned around the same time that the Yellows and Greens were typically the only Aes Sedai who ever had children (and even that was uncommon).


wrt Aes Sedai on the Borderlands: Just consider three or four battalions of linked women (13 per battalion) accompanied by large Borderlands armies, toting angreal and sa'angreal in tow, and burning off sections of the Blight, then blasting the land with wind to kick up any microorganisms and then burn those as well. Series over (well not really but it makes sense and that's why it would never happen).

 

[seitora]

Also there were lots of Forsaken (I think Jordan at one point said 40ish), but the 13 we know and luv were the guys and gals who were at Shayol Ghul when the place got sealed up by the Hundred and One Companions. They weren't all necessarily the most powerful, but a lot of them had other useful talens (Aginor with his biological creations, Mesaana for her torture abilities). Asmodean was there because I guess the Dark One likes music? (But no really, he was an administrator apparently)

 

[grant]

Yeah, breeding the ability out of the population and then complaining that nobody was as strong as the age of legends was always kind of amusing in its way. Was it in the proper books that it was mentioned that somebody had proposed breeding the severed men who could channel brought to tower?

It was mentioned in one of the later books I think, a Yellow who had proposed it. I think it was mentioned around the same time that the Yellows and Greens were typically the only Aes Sedai who ever had children (and even that was uncommon).


wrt Aes Sedai on the Borderlands: Just consider three or four battalions of linked women (13 per battalion) accompanied by large Borderlands armies, toting angreal and sa'angreal in tow, and burning off sections of the Blight, then blasting the land with wind to kick up any microorganisms and then burn those as well. Series over (well not really but it makes sense and that's why it would never happen).

That's making some pretty big assumptions about the size of the forces they could raise and the limitations of the things in the Blight.

Also we have no idea how long the Gholam has been active for. With so little data about it that thing might have been around for centuries or longer. Then there's the problem of the Whitecloaks, people who would love an opportunity to take Tar Valon and there's no way the Aes Sedai could mask their activities.

 

[Ashaman]

Yeah, breeding the ability out of the population and then complaining that nobody was as strong as the age of legends was always kind of amusing in its way. Was it in the proper books that it was mentioned that somebody had proposed breeding the severed men who could channel brought to tower?

It was mentioned in one of the later books I think, a Yellow who had proposed it. I think it was mentioned around the same time that the Yellows and Greens were typically the only Aes Sedai who ever had children (and even that was uncommon).

That was mentioned in this book (SR), and it was the Whites who proposed it.

Verin countered that that wasn't really the best method, and instead it should be themselves, the Aes Sedai, that had children.

Also there were lots of Forsaken (I think Jordan at one point said 40ish),

Really? Didn't know that.

 

[Belgarion213]

I think its mentioned in the Guide. Remember though that the Chosen were well the ones that were at the top of the pecking order for the Dark One. There were obviously many more people/channelers who swore themselves, but the chosen were both unusual in the way they did it, the act that they got the True Power, and in unusual strength in the power in the first place, though compared to most of the Aes Sedai in the tower even the weakest (Asmodean or the one that Elayne/Nynaeve captures, the spider one forget her name) would stand heads and shoulders above them, and thats even without the knowledge from a age when the power was studied in minute and scientific methods instead of the table scraps left over.

 

[Ashaman]

After Perrin is Healed, 500 Trollocs and 3 Fades attack the village, but they get slaughtered; that said, they got too close for comfort.

Then Perrin gets treated as a Lord by his people, who call him Perrin Goldeneyes, and they've even got him a banner and everything. A Red Wolfhead on a White background.

It apparently waving away in the middle of Emond's Field.

It brought to mind how awesome it would be if Rand and Mat were there too, the Dragon Banner and the banner for the Band of the Red Hand flying too. Of course, since the Band hasn't been founded yet its an impossible dream.

There are also multiple mentions of how Morgase would react to someone claiming that land as their own. Which jogged my memory.

When Elayne is Queen, doesn't this come up? IIRC, she wants to bring the Two Rivers to heel. Hope she's not stupid enough to get on RPM's bad sides with that.

After beating back the Tollocs, we learn that it was really a test of Emond's Field's defenses.

And then the Tinkers appear, and while there is a general feeling of "we don't want them" in the village, Perrin insists in such a way that he shuts up both a representative of the Villiage Council (who was more unsure than against it) and a member of the Women's Circle (who was against it).

Then he spends the rest of the morning giving orders to people who should know what to do anyway, and then brokers a treaty with the Whitecloaks, because he's not going to be responsible for men fighting men when there are Shadowspawn about.

Also, it seems Luc/Slayer is there for Fain, but holy shit one of the Trinity is there now and he has got to die! Time for the Shadow to change their plans.

At first I thought Fain was in control of the Trollocs and Fades, even as he played the Whitecloaks against them. I was apparently very wrong.

Then we are back to N_E, who get caught up in a kidnapping attempt accidentally orcastrated by a Seanchen captain, who wanted Sul'dam, and Nyneave is unfortunate enough to look like her.

When the captain sees what Gelb is up to she puts a stop to it, and even goes to have tea with them.

Egeanin gets a shocking real life meeting with channelers who are not collared, and realises that they may not be as bad as she was always lead to believe.

Nyneave and Elayne then have a quick stategy meeting, and a regal woman walks in and holy shit its one of the Forsaken and she's using Compulsion to make Nyneave and Elayne suggestable little twits.

The yet unnamed Forsaken questions the two girls, who spill their guts about everything from Rand to the Blacks. Luckily, weather by their own mental will or the blind spots in compulsion, a few of the questions they answer in exact words, so hide the existance of their own ter'angreal.

And then she leaves, just like that, leaving N_E utterly clueless that she was ever their.

And I cannot believe the suddenness of it.

Its gone from another Black hunt to holy shit, Forsaken in the city!

Looking back, there were a couple of clues, like the fact that it was mentioned the city was unnaturally tainted, and that kind of thing, but still, she was just prung on us.

And while we reel from that, bam, we go straight into the Tower coup. In rapid succession, Suine is captured, questioned, stilled and rescued by Min.

The Blue's are either dead or fled, the same with the majority of the Green's, and barring the Red's, who mostly stayed in the Tower, the rest are divided if not equally, then at least not too lobsidedly.

I feel as though I just got sucker punched. And then they followed it up by kneeing me in the balls.

I'll tell you this though, I don't hate Gawyn as much as I perhaps should.

I remember hating him the first time, but I understand his stance much better now.

Not only has he known Elaida all his life, Suine has also been keeping the truth of his sister from him for what, 2-4 months.

She doesn't deserve to be stilled for it, but I can see why Gawyn would side against her; she's done nothing but lie to him, really.

And then there is the fact that he helped Min and co go even though he really shouldn't have, and it all adds up to me merely disagreeing with his choices.

Oh, and hey, Logain.

One of my, maybe not faviourites, but well liked characters. He's even surprisingly not crazy.

I look forward to this future glory of his.

 

[Valint]

if it's absolutely required to bring him back to the Tower (which would fit with my opinion about the intelligence of authority figures here) then they did break the rules and nothing ever happened (which doesn't seem likely). Moraine knowing about it when she has no business investigating suggests that the entire Tower knew.

The Aes Sedai know that the Dragon will one day be reborn, and be needed to fight the Dark One. Before severing a male channeler, they want to make sure they aren't killing the one they need. What they did was absolutely illegal under Tower law.

And, yes, other Aes Sedai did find out about the Red Ajah's actions. This led to the exile of the three Red Sitters to a farm until they were recalled by Elaida ~15 years later.

 

[Ashaman]

After 12 days travelling, most of which was spent dealing with Aviendha the spy, the gleeman who wants to write a tragedy, Aviendha the teacher and Kadere the peddler who want Rand to buy information from him, the group finally arrives at Cold Rocks Hold.

On a side note, Keille is probably Lanfear, though I cannot say for sure. There's a conversation with Mat where she mentions him refusing her offers "twice now".

Once there, there is the formal greeting, followed by a meal where Aviendha is forced to teach him and Rand decides that a gift to get on her good side would be a good idea.

He follows through not much later, but unfortunately the Maidens believe he wants to court her.

Considering later events, they seem to know something he doesn't.

Watching Rand speak to the Wide One's is rather amusing, seeing as on one page they are telling him that a WO must be incontrol of their emotions and on the next page a WO is practically yelling in fury.

Then we cut to a dream where Rand goes skinny dipping with Min, Elayne and Aviendha, only for Lanfear to interupt.

When he awakes its to find Aviendha in his room, and she lets enough slip that Rand figures out that the Wise Ones have been spying on his dreams.

I am both appalled and amazed that they would do that. I'm appalled because its such a huge invasion of privacy and is dangerous in general; I'm amazed because its actually a great idea. Unfortunately for them it hasn't worked quite yet, and Rand is even more furious than ever.

And then the Shadowspawn attack.

We switch back to Mat, who realizes that the trollocs and such were merely a distraction from the Draghkar attack on Rand.

Then there is a nice conversation between Moraine (who is implied to have figured out Rand's basic plan using the Prophecy they were arguing about in Tear) and Rand, where she asks her to confide in her, and he says he would if she swore not to stop him, that she wouldn't hinder him, and that she wouldn't use him for the Towers ends.

She replies that she wouldn't hinder him in fulfilling his destiny, but she wouldn't let him put his head on a chopping block either.

Rand decides its not good enough.

Now you see, I would disagree with him except for one point. She says she wouldn't hinder his destiny. That's one agreement. She says she wants to protect him from making a mistake. This is a matter of opinion. I can see why Rand would disagree on this point, but on the other side she does show that she cares for his life.

On those two points alone, I would probably disagree with Rand's choice not to consult with her, but only just.

Its the third point, and the absence of her answer that makes me side with Rand.

Fuck Aes Sedai control and manipulations.



Then we are back to N_E, who are closing in on the Blacks, and have also dicovered Eleganin is Seanchen. They take her captive, and she explains her reasoning to them.

Thom, Boyle and Julin all report in on the Blacks whereabouts, the Panarchs Palace, but keep running in to dead ends in their investigation.

Nyneave is the one that makes the break through, first by talking to the Wise Ones is the World of Dreams, then by finding the information they want (The Panarch is under the Black's control, not a a Darkfriend herself), finds and remembers Moghedian through a detail I'd forgotten to mention last time, and then in rapid succession finds a Seal on the DO, and the a'dam for a man.

When Moghedian was questioning them, Nyneave's bad habit of tugging on her braid kicked in. She was all smiles and sweetness on the outside, but on the inside she was furious.

When she saw Moghedian again, her habit kicked in with avengence, letting her know that she hated this woman with a passion, allowing her to remember the whole ordeal.

She almost tried to take the Forsaken on then and there, before Birgette stopped her and filled her in on a few things.

After that, she woke up and began to think up a plan.

There was one thing that bugged me though; Nyneave's attitude was much worse during this book, and so far she's been much less willing to listen to good reasoning

 

[Ashaman]

Three awesome moments in a row for three of our heroes/heroines.

The first is Perrin, who shot slayer in the chest with a pretty clever gambit. Then finished the chapter getting married.

The second is Elayne, who took a Black by surprise and got away with it even in a palace full of Blacks.

And thirdly, an IMO, the best, Nyneave answers an age old question.

When you are in a stalemate with one of the Forsaken, each trying to sever the other but each lacking the strengh to do it and lacking the concentration to make another weave of anything, what's the solution?

According to Nyneave, throw something at them. Nailing Moghedian between the eyes with the braclet, she knocks the Forsaken's concentration off enough for her to slid her weave home.

Unfortunately the weave wasn't strong enough for stilling, but it sheilded her pretty handily.

The bad part in this equation is that it alerted the Blacks. Nyneave managed to dodge a couple bursts of balefire, but was too weakened to go on the offensive.

And Moghedian got away even though she was sheilded. Foreshadowing that sheilds can be removed, most likely.

After that its a quick unwind chapter, showing how they got away, and Nyneave relaxing about Egeanin slightly. And she shows great foresight in planning on dropping the male a'dam in the deepest part of the sea Domon knows of. Slightly less foresight in that she didn't insist on going to see it done.

A climax followed by a rest chapter is a classic end, and well deserved rest.

Then back to Perrin's climax chapter; harried North and South by trollocs, with shadowspawn closing in, how could this end. Slowly but surely their lines are being breached, every able bodied Emond Field man and woman is fighting but it is not enough.

And who should come to them but Devon Ride and Watch Hill, one from the north and one from the south, both independant of the other and one of them carrying the red eagle of Manetheran.

Its a magical moment, made all the sweeter for Fain's frothing thoughts about how Manetheran was always a pain for him/Mordeth.

And Fain now plans to go to Tar Valon to get his dagger back, but has scheduled a visit to Ceamlyn.

Oh, and the last time we see Perrin, he's off to fuck his new bride.

An excellent end for Perrin's story.

Now just Rand and Mat's end.