Earth/Minbari War Interventions

[Lost Star]

I posted this in Spacebattles, but I thought that I'd bring the idea here as well:

You know, given ramming works in B5 canon, I don't get why EA didn't just build more of the missiles or Kinetic Kill Vehicles designed to be piloted towards Minbari cruisers. It's well within their current tech level. Such Ramships will undoubtedly end with the death of all hands after 1-2 rams, but earth has the means to outproduce the Minbari in terms of ship construction anyway, and they only need armor and engines and little else for the things. The crew should be only 2-6 for one of those and if they build thousands of these Kamikaze suicide rammers, the Minbari fleet would be destroyed at significantly less cost than it would take a conventional fleet. And for the crews of said ships? Use convicts brainwashed by Psicorps if you have to or volunteers to lead them, I doubt you'll have a shortage of people willing to sacrifice for the right incentive.

Perhaps it's the Vorlons again? They put genetic blinders on all the species in canon to keep them under control and make them obey and follow their rules and live the way the Vorlons want, so maybe the Vorlons also stiffled their creativity?

I wouldn't see that as a viable strat. You have to build and setup a system that would actually get in range and then have people with the proper training willing to sacrifice themselves. Ramming is all well and good until you realize that if they know that the ships are built for that they can just stay away.

I'm not sure about missile tech either, but I can't see them being that capable. Keep in mind that most ships use energy weapons of some sort. Missiles are slow compared to that. You could probably intercept them with conventional weapons easily. Plus you still have the whole lock on problem.

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

The Kinetic Kill Vehicles runs into the problem that the ramming only tended to only work because it was a surprise tactic that the Minbari simply did except at all. Most likely you'd end with a lot of dead pilots, wasted money and resources, and lost time that the construction yards could be doing other more important things.

As for the missiles they run into the problem of not being able to lock onto their targets and having to cover a massive distance without being shot down.

 

[S J C]

Can shinigami survive in space?á I haven't seen anything to suggest they don't breathe.

Fidelius charm a planet?á Its an interesting thought exercise, but not really a realistic option.á We know nothing about how its cast or works, any requirements, or really just anything.á Though just to be an ass they could fidelius earth, then a ship, then go hide the Minbari homeworld.

There dead and there's no air in there home dimension so I don't see them needing to.

And yes the only thing the Minbari can find is a giant

WWW Floating near there homeworld

Shinigami have physical bodies, with organs. They can be poisoned. Not sure where its ever been said that they don't breathe.

IIRC during the SS arc it was mentioned Soul Society is composed of pure spirit particles and thus had no air for humans to breathe.

 

[Tsukino_kage]

You're right about the ways to counter such a tactic, though I'm not so sure it's completely useless. At best, you could have a few 1 man ram-ships loaded onto carriers or battleships to launch as kamikaze squads. The pilot takes care of the need to guide the thing by using their mark ones, though like I said, you need to be someone brainwashed or have incentive to do this crazy thing. If your normal ships are going to die ineffectually anyway, might as well turn them into suicide attackers and take the enemy out as they go. The big problem is actually making them last long enough to get into effective range. Maybe they can carry proximity nukes? Some really heavy armor is definitely needed here. Escape pod optional. Also, Minbari aren't really invisible when in stealth mode, they just confuse sensors so target locks can't lock on, so visual targeting should work.

That said, this is obviously the ultimate in desperation maneuvers. If the other races see this, I can only think that they'd consider the humans geniuses or just plain mad, maybe both. Even if Earth wins with such a tactic, the cost in resources and manpower is going to be extremely high, but to them, since they're going down either way, they might as well make the boneheads pay for it. I can only imagine the split reaction of the Minbari. The more vindictive will declare this another barbarism, the rest will likely be either in awe of their ingenuity or courage.

On another note, there was this one fanfic I remember, where, in an act of spite, the humans took out the gate network and the survivors of mankind retreated to the safety of the Shadows protection. The ensuing chaos causes interstellar civilization to grind to a halt, with the Minbari becoming more hated than ever. I'd like to see that concept continued, perhaps with the humans, with Shadow help, creating new forces while everyone else is rebuilding to give the war another round?

There's also another one by Disruptor that has the humans rediscovering old tech that lets them escape the Minbari, but are forced to abandon Earth as well as one where they get help from alternate universes by the same author. I wonder what happened with those?

There's also one by another author that has the humans finding the Iratus bug and becoming mutated into Wraith. Sheridan pulls a MacArthur in this one.

Finally, there's a couple of stories by the same author, where EA is the successor to UEG from Robotech, and rediscovers Shadow Chronicles tech along with help from the Sentinels to kick Minbari ass. That just begs to be continued. The other has humans requesting help from their oldest allies: The Autobots. Can you imagine how the other races will react to Unicron, specially when the humans just send everything they have into that fight alongside the Autobots?

 

[DhampyrX2]

Can shinigami survive in space?� I haven't seen anything to suggest they don't breathe.

Fidelius charm a planet?� Its an interesting thought exercise, but not really a realistic option.� We know nothing about how its cast or works, any requirements, or really just anything.� Though just to be an ass they could fidelius earth, then a ship, then go hide the Minbari homeworld.

There dead and there's no air in there home dimension so I don't see them needing to.

And yes the only thing the Minbari can find is a giant

WWW Floating near there homeworld

Shinigami have physical bodies, with organs. They can be poisoned. Not sure where its ever been said that they don't breathe.

IIRC during the SS arc it was mentioned Soul Society is composed of pure spirit particles and thus had no air for humans to breathe.

This. It's the reason you need a gigai to interact directly with the living and why Uruhara had to construct the special gate into Soul Society for everyone by Ichigo and Yoruichi.

Also, it was confirmed by the Minbari that Minbari souls were being reincarnated as humans, which means you could have Minbari Shinigami coming into play as well. Granted, there is no saying that the Minbari Shinigami would support the war since they have a fresh outside perspective on things. And if they are subordinate to the Gotei 13 and Central 46 they would waiting for orders like everyone else. Although at the end of things most Shinigami are pretty hands off in matters of the living.

Your better bet would be the Arrancar post-Aizen, possibly under Ichigo's rule, getting involved. Imagine Vaizard, Arrancar, and Menos Grande Hollow strike teams attacking Minbari fleets.

If you assume that only the religious caste would even be spiritually aware enoughl to SEE the attackers, you have the makings for a messy battle as warriors are getting cut to peices be something they can't see or fight back against.

 

[semil]

Even if they don't breathe, they still exist physically. They can't just walk through walls or anything. So its possible they might explode in the vacuum of space, or freeze since its like 4 degrees Kelvin, or be irradiated by the sun, or there's a stray paint chip traveling faster than the speed of sound and it explodes their head.

 

[S J C]

Can shinigami survive in space?á I haven't seen anything to suggest they don't breathe.

Fidelius charm a planet?á Its an interesting thought exercise, but not really a realistic option.á We know nothing about how its cast or works, any requirements, or really just anything.á Though just to be an ass they could fidelius earth, then a ship, then go hide the Minbari homeworld.

There dead and there's no air in there home dimension so I don't see them needing to.

And yes the only thing the Minbari can find is a giant

WWW Floating near there homeworld

Shinigami have physical bodies, with organs. They can be poisoned. Not sure where its ever been said that they don't breathe.

IIRC during the SS arc it was mentioned Soul Society is composed of pure spirit particles and thus had no air for humans to breathe.

This. It's the reason you need a gigai to interact directly with the living and why Uruhara had to construct the special gate into Soul Society for everyone by Ichigo and Yoruichi.

Also, it was confirmed by the Minbari that Minbari souls were being reincarnated as humans, which means you could have Minbari Shinigami coming into play as well. Granted, there is no saying that the Minbari Shinigami would support the war since they have a fresh outside perspective on things. And if they are subordinate to the Gotei 13 and Central 46 they would waiting for orders like everyone else. Although at the end of things most Shinigami are pretty hands off in matters of the living.

Your better bet would be the Arrancar post-Aizen, possibly under Ichigo's rule, getting involved. Imagine Vaizard, Arrancar, and Menos Grande Hollow strike teams attacking Minbari fleets.

If you assume that only the religious caste would even be spiritually aware enoughl to SEE the attackers, you have the makings for a messy battle as warriors are getting cut to peices be something they can't see or fight back against.

The Minbari are going to kill all humans Hence the balance of souls will shatter and Soul Socienty and the Mortal World will destroy one another. Quincy situation.

 

[S J C]

Even if they don't breathe, they still exist physically. They can't just walk through walls or anything. So its possible they might explode in the vacuum of space, or freeze since its like 4 degrees Kelvin, or be irradiated by the sun, or there's a stray paint chip traveling faster than the speed of sound and it explodes their head.

Rukia got into Ichigo's room easy enough with some sort of portal Chapter 1 page 12. Use that.

 

[DhampyrX2]

Even if they don't breathe, they still exist physically. They can't just walk through walls or anything. So its possible they might explode in the vacuum of space, or freeze since its like 4 degrees Kelvin, or be irradiated by the sun, or there's a stray paint chip traveling faster than the speed of sound and it explodes their head.

Rukia was walking through Ichigo's walls at the start of the SS arc. It looked like Shinigami can be intagible to physical objects at will. Also, Shinigami and Hollows both can open portals to the living world from their respective realms, which would include Minbari ships and the Minbari homeworld. No need to float indiscriminately in space.

 

[Lost Star]

You do remember how BIG space is again right?

 

[bissek]

Can shinigami survive in space?á I haven't seen anything to suggest they don't breathe.

Fidelius charm a planet?á Its an interesting thought exercise, but not really a realistic option.á We know nothing about how its cast or works, any requirements, or really just anything.á Though just to be an ass they could fidelius earth, then a ship, then go hide the Minbari homeworld.

There dead and there's no air in there home dimension so I don't see them needing to.

And yes the only thing the Minbari can find is a giant

WWW Floating near there homeworld

Shinigami have physical bodies, with organs. They can be poisoned. Not sure where its ever been said that they don't breathe.

IIRC during the SS arc it was mentioned Soul Society is composed of pure spirit particles and thus had no air for humans to breathe.

This. It's the reason you need a gigai to interact directly with the living and why Uruhara had to construct the special gate into Soul Society for everyone by Ichigo and Yoruichi.

Also, it was confirmed by the Minbari that Minbari souls were being reincarnated as humans, which means you could have Minbari Shinigami coming into play as well. Granted, there is no saying that the Minbari Shinigami would support the war since they have a fresh outside perspective on things. And if they are subordinate to the Gotei 13 and Central 46 they would waiting for orders like everyone else. Although at the end of things most Shinigami are pretty hands off in matters of the living.

Your better bet would be the Arrancar post-Aizen, possibly under Ichigo's rule, getting involved. Imagine Vaizard, Arrancar, and Menos Grande Hollow strike teams attacking Minbari fleets.

If you assume that only the religious caste would even be spiritually aware enoughl to SEE the attackers, you have the makings for a messy battle as warriors are getting cut to peices be something they can't see or fight back against.

The Minbari are going to kill all humans Hence the balance of souls will shatter and Soul Socienty and the Mortal World will destroy one another. Quincy situation.

Caste divisions aren't absolute with the Minbari. There are documented cases of Religious Caste Minbari transferring to the Warrior Caste (The admiral who commanded the fleet at the Battle of the Line was one such).

 

[S J C]

Can shinigami survive in space?á I haven't seen anything to suggest they don't breathe.

Fidelius charm a planet?á Its an interesting thought exercise, but not really a realistic option.á We know nothing about how its cast or works, any requirements, or really just anything.á Though just to be an ass they could fidelius earth, then a ship, then go hide the Minbari homeworld.

There dead and there's no air in there home dimension so I don't see them needing to.

And yes the only thing the Minbari can find is a giant

WWW Floating near there homeworld

Shinigami have physical bodies, with organs. They can be poisoned. Not sure where its ever been said that they don't breathe.

IIRC during the SS arc it was mentioned Soul Society is composed of pure spirit particles and thus had no air for humans to breathe.

This. It's the reason you need a gigai to interact directly with the living and why Uruhara had to construct the special gate into Soul Society for everyone by Ichigo and Yoruichi.

Also, it was confirmed by the Minbari that Minbari souls were being reincarnated as humans, which means you could have Minbari Shinigami coming into play as well. Granted, there is no saying that the Minbari Shinigami would support the war since they have a fresh outside perspective on things. And if they are subordinate to the Gotei 13 and Central 46 they would waiting for orders like everyone else. Although at the end of things most Shinigami are pretty hands off in matters of the living.

Your better bet would be the Arrancar post-Aizen, possibly under Ichigo's rule, getting involved. Imagine Vaizard, Arrancar, and Menos Grande Hollow strike teams attacking Minbari fleets.

If you assume that only the religious caste would even be spiritually aware enoughl to SEE the attackers, you have the makings for a messy battle as warriors are getting cut to peices be something they can't see or fight back against.

The Minbari are going to kill all humans Hence the balance of souls will shatter and Soul Socienty and the Mortal World will destroy one another. Quincy situation.

Caste divisions aren't absolute with the Minbari. There are documented cases of Religious Caste Minbari transferring to the Warrior Caste (The admiral who commanded the fleet at the Battle of the Line was one such).

Whats that got to do with what I said?

 

[bissek]

It means that even if one needs religious caste training to see the spiritual attackers, some Warrior Caste Minbari will still be able to see them.

 

[S J C]

It means that even if one needs religious caste training to see the spiritual attackers, some Warrior Caste Minbari will still be able to see them.

Ah right you were referring to DhampyrX2 I thought it was in reference to my post on the reasons SS would intervene.

 

[DhampyrX2]

It means that even if one needs religious caste training to see the spiritual attackers, some Warrior Caste Minbari will still be able to see them.

Point. And some members of the religious caste will be unable to see them. Spiritual awareness doesn't seem to go hand in hand with being a priest or monk of some kind. There is a grain of natural ability to it. Either way, Shinigami and Hollow portals are a major cheat code to go along with the non-corporeal bodyless souls that would be attacking the Minbari. Depending on how pissed each side gets, imagine something like blowing Ishida's "Hollow whistle" in the middle of Minbari cities. I think they might start worrying more about the homeworld when thousands are getting slaughtered by giant monsters the size of small vehicles on average, that can only bee seen by a small percentage ofthe population.

 

[SotF]

How about a battle inadvertently stumbling onto something far worse than the Shadows, namely Unicron...

 

[DhampyrX2]

How about a battle inadvertently stumbling onto something far worse than the Shadows, namely Unicron...

That would be a Bad End for the Minbari. the Minbari have never interacted with the Autobots and they would never lower themselves to asking for help from the one race they have encountered before, namely the humans, that have faced Unicron and lived. And even then, all humanity could do would be to try to contact Cybertron.

And honestly, I think Earth would wait until Unicron finished his Minbar sammich before calling in Optimus.

 

[SotF]

How about a battle inadvertently stumbling onto something far worse than the Shadows, namely Unicron...

That would be a Bad End for the Minbari. the Minbari have never interacted with the Autobots and they would never lower themselves to asking for help from the one race they have encountered before, namely the humans, that have faced Unicron and lived. And even then, all humanity could do would be to try to contact Cybertron.

And honestly, I think Earth would wait until Unicron finished his Minbar sammich before calling in Optimus.

Now imagine a world based on either the movie transformers or one with no meeting with either side.

Both sides of that battle are almost entirely wiped out, hell make it a world with a dormant Shadow Battlecrab that gets munched and watch the fireworks as the entire galaxy has a massive freakout.

 

[Tsukino_kage]

The thought of unleashing Galactus, Unicron, the Tyranids, Starbreaker, or any other entity to om nom nom the Minbari is VERY well received. Curiously, what would the humans who may or may not have faced these threats before do?

Here's another thought: Thanks to that new Babylon 5 video release, They now have canon documentation of supernatural (or at least hyperadvanced) entities trapped on Earth. It also has a priest whose exorcism is effective against their ability to possess humans. The entities want to escape Earth and be sent back to space. What if Earth cut a deal with them to unleash them upon the MInbari? Imagine, demon possessed Minbari making the rest of that superstitious lot VERY VERY AFRAID. Plus, only the humans know how to control these demons, and if Earth is destroyed, they might be released anyway. Cue the other races dog-piling the Minbari to keep the demons away and the humans who can stop them alive. In fact, if EA is smart, they could demand it as the price of their help against the demons.

 

[Typhonis]

" This is Lady Seto of the Jurian Empire. I herby grant you the chance to surrender immediately or things will become ...interesting. The Minbari people are about to tread where they are not welcome and this is a chance to prevent something unfortunate from happening."

 

[Tsukino_kage]

" This is Lady Seto of the Jurian Empire. I herby grant you the chance to surrender immediately or things will become ...interesting. The Minbari people are about to tread where they are not welcome and this is a chance to prevent something unfortunate from happening."

Isn't there already a Jurai vs Minbari fic with Earth as an emerging superpower? Of course, this version had to nerf the Jurians and make the Minbari more powerful to keep them balanced, while Earth, Narn and all their allies played catch up.

 

[Lost Star]

Ehm I would think that the Mimbari would actually get along fairly decently with the Jurai if the two were in the same universe.

Tho' thinking about it I would say that Jurai fits more as a Vorlon proxie than anything else... Which would be weird now that I think about it.

 

[Tsukino_kage]

Found it! It's called Back Home, Here's the author's FF.net account: <a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/u/212642/Warringer' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>Warringer</a>

And the explanation here is that they're fighting over the irony that they're too much alike. They both think they're the top of the food chain and deserve to be there, and can't stand that there's another who is their equal or even can come close. And the Darker variant, Going Home, has them both outright enslaving other races out of some twisted idea that they're "uplifting" them, though I admit that canonically, that was the Centauri's excuse. Neither Jurai nor Minbar in their canons did that. They did that in Back Home too, but it wasn't as pronounced.

Oh yeah, the Vorlons and the Shadows are waiting in the wings to start another round of their stupid pissing game, and only Tenchi and his chosen few know that and are frantically preparing to survive the storm. Some of the AU to this story have them losing and running to other universes like nBSG (Best option since they can pretty much curbstomp the Cylons easily even in their weakened state, although another alternate on Spacebattles has them gettng attacked by the Colonials with the Colonial military getting handed their heads) Star Wars (Somewhat bad since they have the tech to take on Deathstars and win, but the Empire can still Dogpile them with numbers and even if they win, there are other nasties out there like the Yuuzhan Vong), or worst yet, Warhammer 40000 (right in the middle of a battle between the Tyranids and the Eldar no less, and yes, they know how bad it is since to them, W40K was fictional until they ended up in that universe. Talk about frying pan and the fire).

 

[AbyssalDaemon]

Which runs into the problem that if you have race X in having been as part of said reality then everything is going to have gone differently. And really Back Home is not a good example given how its one of the worst stories that I've encountered when it comes to canonically portraying almost any of the crossovers that show up in it.

For example if the Juri exist within the B5-galaxy it's doubtful to be any war with Minbari simply do to the fact that Vorlons wouldn't have any real reason to get involved with and advance the the proto-Minbari do to the Juri being fairly close to what the Vorlon's where originally after.

 

[DhampyrX2]

There's also the issue that Earth is a Jurain colony world even if it is backwater and considered hands-off. Attacking Earth means declaring war on the Juraian Empire and involving the Galaxy Police, who are supposed to keep incursians against Earth away.