Nasuverse FSN Question Thread

[shioran toushin]

Spoiler

So, in it Ranma ends up replacing Shirou, going through the fire and getting rescued etc. etc. What I want to do, since I've gotten some plot twists and ideas into my head, is that through some method (the original draft laid the cause at Zelretch's feet) Ranma's cursed form changes into what he would look like as if his mother had been Irisviel.

you DO know that the fire left Shirou as a Blank Slate/Tabula Rasa spiritually, psychologically and mystically speaking, so in the end your 'Ranms would be replaced by Shirou' right?

and while i kind of doubt that the gender-changing curse would survive what amounts to a Hard Reset and Drive Wipe in every sense of the word that would only mean that Kirigitsu would either cure him, excise it from him (remember that Kirigitsu's affinity/trait/origin is severing and binding) or seal/block it and would teach Shirou better than he did in the canon route.

but after the fire everything that makes Ranma, well Ranma is gone thanks to both the conceptual nature of the fire, the trauma involved in it and the fact that for him to be 'saved' Avalon has to be grafted into him.

n fact the only thing that could be... let call it inherited from Ranma would be "Proper way of Breathing and Walking" and that would be a trait that ranma was born with.

in the end you wouldn't have a Ranma who takes the place of Shirou, but a Shirou with minimal extras (and if he retains the curse-at least if the fire didn't burnt it-then he would be better taught or Kiri would have 'cured' him already)

 

[Fellgrave]

Well, not quite. I figure that the trauma would hit Shirou harder than Ranma because Shirou wouldn't have as much strength of mind to withstand what he saw in the Fire. Imean, for all intents and purposes, Shirou was at that point just an average little kid. On the other hand, Ranma has had to fight for his life repeatedly, as well as take on Saffron. The trauma is still enough to completely lock off his memories, but not permanently.

As for the curse, I figure that it has an initial trigger, which is falling into the spring. And every time the victim is exposed to water after that point in time activates the curse again. So, with Ranma de-aged, the curse won't activate until his body reaches the same age as when it first fell into the spring.

 

[shioran toushin]

Well, not quite. I figure that the trauma would hit Shirou harder than Ranma because Shirou wouldn't have as much strength of mind to withstand what he saw in the Fire. Imean, for all intents and purposes, Shirou was at that point just an average little kid. On the other hand, Ranma has had to fight for his life repeatedly, as well as take on Saffron. The trauma is still enough to completely lock off his memories, but not permanently.

As for the curse, I figure that it has an initial trigger, which is falling into the spring. And every time the victim is exposed to water after that point in time activates the curse again. So, with Ranma de-aged, the curse won't activate until his body reaches the same age as when it first fell into the spring.

Shirou accepted Death because he was incapable of escaping and saw and felt things that Ranma has barely and vaguely felt twice and it caused him to snap, the first being the Neko-Ken Trauma (who would be wiped in the fire) and thinking that Akane was dead.
outside of that Ranma has not encountered the Sheer hopelessness, despair and helplessness Inevitable death that happened in the fire and for all 'Ranma had to fight for his life' the only two real situations that had ranma fighting for his life were in China when hunted by Shampoo and Saffron, heck Genma's training was leagues more dangerous than any foe that Ranma has fought barring Herb and Saffron.

plus the Fire, and read carefully, Wiped Blank the identity of the little unknown kid that will become Emiya Shirou on a metaphysical level and Avalon added another problem, even then if you have read the novel Shirou's memories before the fire are practically non-existant, it's not that he had amnesia or that he was repressing (afterall his memories of the Fire are Bright and Sharp) it's because they do not exist.

and Magic in the Nasuverse leaves traces, traces that Kirigitsu Paranoid in extreme and firm believer that Magic relates to Death will find.

even then the Magic Mushrooms arc of the manga proved that indeed the 'curse' works even when they are 'de-aged'.

if you really want a 'ranma' takes the place of Shirou as the Protagonist of Fate then don't use the fire because no matter what happens there every 'human' character you put into it will become Emiya Shirou.

 

[Rising Dragon]

Honestly, from what I've heard of your crossover attempt, the way you're going about it just won't work. Not every crossover idea is viable.

 

[daniel_gudman]

What's the idea even about?

Not "a Ranma/FSN crossover". That's what it is, that's a description, but it's not what it's about.

Is it about identity? Losing one, making a new one, moving on? That kind of thing?

Is it about human bonds? What happens when one person forgets them and other people don't, like if someone died, but then turned out to just have cartoon amnesia instead?

What are you even trying to do, anyway?

That's what I'm asking here.



Also I think you've got enough content from the couple of times you've brought this up, that you should start a thread in the Idea section.

 

[Fellgrave]

Is it about human bonds? What happens when one person forgets them and other people don't, like if someone died, but then turned out to just have cartoon amnesia instead?

What are you even trying to do, anyway?

That's what I'm asking here.



Also I think you've got enough content from the couple of times you've brought this up, that you should start a thread in the Idea section.

Okay, well, it's about two things really.

One: with how little we know of Shirou's origins, he could conceivably be anybody.

Two: Ranma's Ranma-ness causes everything in Fate to go sideways, and massive amounts of butterfly effect are involved. Archer is not amused.

And well, I suppose three would be the eventual battle between Ranma's Shirou side and his Ranma side.

The original idea I pitched in the FSN centralized Idea thread. My OP is here, and the next seven are relevant to the discussion: FSN Centralized Idea Thread

 

[shiki]

The problem with the concept is that there wouldn't even be a Ranma side. For all intents and purposes the person that Emiya Shirou was before he was saved died in that fire. That was pretty much the entire point of the flashback scenes in the VN as a way to show that Shirou as a being and a person was created in that fire in more ways than one.

Shirou could have been anyone but in the end it doesn't matter who he was. Who he was would have absolutely no impact on the routes unless you give him ties with one of the three families(Edit: or the Church) because if he was anyone other than those things, the events would essential go down the same path.

You have to remember that the 5th HGW didn't even go on that long and that he was unconscious, healing, training so he wouldn't die, or really busy trying not to die for most of it to have anytime for worrying about the past.

Edit: Also, my 2 cents about the Heaven's feel thing, I think it would be awesome having the Normal end if they end up animating HF. Having a Sakura waiting in the cherry blossoms would make a better end visually than having Rin come over for a visit and witnessing domestic bliss. MoS wouldn't happen unless the screenwriter didn't like Sakura.

 

[MasalaQuaker]

I think the Normal End is definitely a lot more powerful, and should be used if ever HF gets animated.

And MoS end as a BR bonus.

 

[He-who-voted-for-Kodos]

Sparks Liner High, too. Both of the coolest HF Bad Ends, plus the less annoying end. And give SLH a revamped Mighty Wind soundtrack.

 

[Amodelsino]

plus the Fire, and read carefully, Wiped Blank the identity of the little unknown kid that will become Emiya Shirou on a metaphysical level and Avalon added another problem, even then if you have read the novel Shirou's memories before the fire are practically non-existant, it's not that he had amnesia or that he was repressing (afterall his memories of the Fire are Bright and Sharp) it's because they do not exist.

This is completely and totally wrong. UBW made clear that he remembers everything, he just doesn't care about it. The fire added to him. What it added was so strong a survivors guilt and desire to save people because of Kiritsugu that it changed his entire outlook and direction in life, but he was not made into a blank slate at all. That's fanon bullshit, just like the idea that he's a saint that can only do good, rather than an ordinary guy with flaws and likes and dislikes that also has a complete lack of self preservation combined with a ridiculously strong need to help people.

 

[shioran toushin]

plus the Fire, and read carefully, Wiped Blank the identity of the little unknown kid that will become Emiya Shirou on a metaphysical level and Avalon added another problem, even then if you have read the novel Shirou's memories before the fire are practically non-existant, it's not that he had amnesia or that he was repressing (afterall his memories of the Fire are Bright and Sharp) it's because they do not exist.

This is completely and totally wrong. UBW made clear that he remembers everything, he just doesn't care about it. The fire added to him. What it added was so strong a survivors guilt and desire to save people because of Kiritsugu that it changed his entire outlook and direction in life, but he was not made into a blank slate at all. That's fanon bullshit, just like the idea that he's a saint that can only do good, rather than an ordinary guy with flaws and likes and dislikes that also has a complete lack of self preservation combined with a ridiculously strong need to help people.

first, as i am rather lazy to replay the route to find that particular tidbit and as you seem to have it right now all i ask is a Link (or the name of the scenes/days in the game to jump straight on them) and i agree with the second part of your asssement.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

The idea that most Magi avoid modern technology whenever possible is implied if not outright stated in Fate Zero. Although obviously non-canon, Carnival Phantasm episode 4 shows Rin... being unfamiliar with Blu-ray players.

But Rin attended Homurahara Academy, and was considered a perfect student. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Japanese high schools have I.T lessons as part of their curriculum well before 2004?

So while Rin might get confused by Satellite T.V or a sixth-generation games console like the Xbox, she should be perfectly capable of using a P.C and, depending on the syllabus, word-processing, spreadsheet, presentation and database management programs.

The reason that I ask this is that enacting a mystery has been described as executing a "pre-built program" on a system of Thaumaturgical Theory that has been engraved onto the world. So frankly a course on Computer Programming would probably be highly beneficial to the research of a Magus.

 

[Avider]

Does not follow.

It's a metaphor Jim.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Does not follow.

It's a metaphor Jim.

"Trace On." "Basic structure, Analyse." "Composition, Analyse." "Basic structure, Alter." "…Composition, Reinforce."

"Trigger Off." "Set - Nine Lives Blade Works."

Hell, the literal translation for the 1st time we see Shirou reinforce is this:

Begin synchronization
Analyzing composite materials
Reinforcing composite materials
All processes complete.

It just seems very... "program-esque" to me. I'm wondering whether a Magus could create the Magecraft equivalent of a Macro, and have a sequence of spells activated by one trigger, instead of apparently concentrating on every step. I'm not suggesting that Shirou run "Unlimited Blade Works.exe."

Also, TBH I'm more interested in the answer to the question the first 3 paragraphs of my last post were based on.

 

[PCHeintz72]

It just seems very... "program-esque" to me. I'm wondering whether a Magus could create the Magecraft equivalent of a Macro, and have a sequence of spells activated by one trigger, instead of apparently concentrating on every step. I'm not suggesting that Shirou run "Unlimited Blade Works.exe."

Yes... but you have to account for the fact his very background and frame of reference allows him to think that way... He does know tech (he has to, if for no other reason he could not understand anything he was fixing otherwise). But what other mages do is not really wrong, it is right for their frame of reference.

And even in this day and age... not all mundane people know all tech...

For example I program all the time, even build systems, but I care little for phones except to get me messages from them... ask me how to access the camera function, and I would draw a blank, as I have never once bothered to even figure it out, let alone use it... ditto for texting, I've sent maybe two text messages in the last 12+ years. I'd have to read how to access it.

My mother actually has me program the clocks... even though she is fine with her blu ray player and 51" TV

 

[Avider]

Does not follow.

It's a metaphor Jim.

"Trace On." "Basic structure, Analyse." "Composition, Analyse." "Basic structure, Alter." "…Composition, Reinforce."

"Trigger Off." "Set - Nine Lives Blade Works."

Hell, the literal translation for the 1st time we see Shirou reinforce is this:

Begin synchronization
Analyzing composite materials
Reinforcing composite materials
All processes complete.

It just seems very... "program-esque" to me. I'm wondering whether a Magus could create the Magecraft equivalent of a Macro, and have a sequence of spells activated by one trigger, instead of apparently concentrating on every step. I'm not suggesting that Shirou run "Unlimited Blade Works.exe."

Also, TBH I'm more interested in the answer to the question the first 3 paragraphs of my last post were based on.

That was the answer. Like I said, they're metaphors.

You'd probably be able to find parallels in a lot of the general concepts, because generalities, but I doubt taking CS110 will be all that useful, practically speaking.

As for the idea of 'Macros', I'm sure there are similar things in concepts.

 

[Hardcore Heathen]

Does not follow.

It's a metaphor Jim.

"Trace On." "Basic structure, Analyse." "Composition, Analyse." "Basic structure, Alter." "…Composition, Reinforce."

"Trigger Off." "Set - Nine Lives Blade Works."

Hell, the literal translation for the 1st time we see Shirou reinforce is this:

Begin synchronization
Analyzing composite materials
Reinforcing composite materials
All processes complete.

It just seems very... "program-esque" to me. I'm wondering whether a Magus could create the Magecraft equivalent of a Macro, and have a sequence of spells activated by one trigger, instead of apparently concentrating on every step. I'm not suggesting that Shirou run "Unlimited Blade Works.exe."

Also, TBH I'm more interested in the answer to the question the first 3 paragraphs of my last post were based on.

That was the answer. Like I said, they're metaphors.

You'd probably be able to find parallels in a lot of the general concepts, because generalities, but I doubt taking CS110 will be all that useful, practically speaking.

As for the idea of 'Macros', I'm sure there are similar things in concepts.

From what I remember of watching Rin use her Crest to cast spells...don't Crests basically have that function? They have the knowledge of how to cast a spell and all of the theory, and the wielder of the crest basically just "triggers" it.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

*snip*

True, although Shirou's always struck me as more of an amateur mechanic than someone who'd work with software. We never even see him use a computer (although if IT lessons are standard for Homurahara Academy, then he must be proficient,) or even a cell phone.

And Shirou's not my only source. Looking at http://tatari.byethost33.com/fuyuki/magic.htm#Thaumaturgy :

The practitioner, in accord with the system that each school operates, sends a command which executes a pre-built program.

A system that a school of Thaumaturgy operates. An Operating System?

I'm not sure what the original source for this is though. Melty Blood? Sion could do that Memory Partition thing.

Hmm. I wonder if a Magus could create what would essentially be Thaumaturgical Malware for another's system...

That was the answer. Like I said, they're metaphors.

You'd probably be able to find parallels in a lot of the general concepts, because generalities, but I doubt taking CS110 will be all that useful, practically speaking.

As for the idea of 'Macros', I'm sure there are similar things in concepts.

From what I remember of watching Rin use her Crest to cast spells...don't Crests basically have that function? They have the knowledge of how to cast a spell and all of the theory, and the wielder of the crest basically just "triggers" it.

Quoted from Day 3, Part 1 of the Prologue:

I switch on my sense.
I push magical energy into my Magic Crest, read the part that explains the elimination of boundary fields, and now all I have to do is activate it.
"Abzug. Bedienung Mittelstand."

Looks like it. A spell to eliminate a bounded field would probably be much more complicated than a simple fireball or a Gandr.

 

[Avider]

A system that a school of Thaumaturgy operates. An Operating System?

Dude, dude, c'mon dude.

It's the magic foundation.


If you want to complete the OS analogy, so like:

Fire is the effect.
Alchemy is the OS (magic foundation).

So, to cast fire, you would have to do what the xyz, which the OS will interpret and cast fire....huh?


Y'know something, I'm much more comfortable with the whole, the magic foundation is a compiler and casting fire is just writing code. Except the compiler is program specific so to cast Fire(Alchemy) you need to write Fire(Alchemy) code then run it on an Alchemy compiler.

This whole OS analogy just doesn't really work all that well.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

I'll be honest, I'm far from an expert in programming. I'm just wondering whether the whole fanon about Shirou and Rin being mostly ignorant of computers make sense or not, considering they attended a Japanese High School that probably had basic computer literacy lessons, and about the thought processes a Magus goes through when, for example, they cast a fireball.

I mean, is it:

"Right, create the flame. Compress and shape it into a ball. Form an outer layer so convection through the air won't make it disperse before it gets half-way to my opponent. Generate kinetic energy so the fireball will speed towards my target. And... that's everything. Fly, my pretty!"

or do they do all that beforehand when they're designing the spell, and when actually casting it they just think:

"FIREBALL!"

 

[zeebee1]

If basic magecraft required that much thought then vampire hunting would be basically impossible.

 

[Avider]

I'll be honest, I'm far from an expert in programming. I'm just wondering whether the whole fanon about Shirou and Rin being mostly ignorant of computers make sense or not, considering they attended a Japanese High School that probably had basic computer literacy lessons, and about the thought processes a Magus goes through when, for example, they cast a fireball.

I mean, is it:

"Right, create the flame. Compress and shape it into a ball. Form an outer layer so convection through the air won't make it disperse before it gets half-way to my opponent. Generate kinetic energy so the fireball will speed towards my target. And... that's everything. Fly, my pretty!"

or do they do all that beforehand when they're designing the spell, and when actually casting it they just think:

"FIREBALL!"

Little bit of both?

I'm just wondering whether the whole fanon about Shirou and Rin being mostly ignorant of computers make sense or not

While they may not be technically savvy, they would at least be aware of computers, if only because they went through the public education system, yes.

 

[Azure]

Rin is ignorant of computer mostly because she is poor, or rather she just uses her money to buy Jewels for her magecraft. She uses computers in school, but she never had the spare money to buy a personal PC (or other expensive electronics) for her own use.

As for Shirou, wasn't it mentioned that he repaired a computer for Taiga in Fate somewhere?

 

[seitora]

Was there any reason Kerry didn't set off all his explosives to blow up the leyline in Fuyuki City while he was still alive, aside from that it'd be cruel to basically create another disaster in the city only a few years after a fire?

 

[Fellgrave]

I thought he already had? And that it actually sped things up, hence why there was only a ten year gap between the Fourth and Fifth wars?