Sailor Moon Nanoha as Serenity: Take Two!
- Thread starter Comartemis
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The bureau's only been around since the 1920s but they have records going back to the Belkan eras plus whatever's in the Infinity Library that nobody before Yuuno ever bothered to sort through. That's beside the point though, since the bureau doesn't need to have been to every corner of every universe to find one. I question Seiya's judgement that Senshi are rare, since there's been Senshi in every planetary system that we know of in Sailor Moon, even those planets that aren't presently able to support life.
If Senshi exist in other universes then I can't imagine any life-supporting planet not having a Senshi to protect it, and the bureau has dozens of those in its territory even if you presume that they can only travel to a few worlds in each universe. Mid, Vaizen, Ruwella, Alzas, all of them are life-supporting planets that should have Senshi attached to them.
It just makes more sense to me that the Senshi would be unique to this universe, and if they're unique then Sailor Crystals and by extension the Galaxy Cauldron must be something that only exists in this universe. Our world is fundamentally different in basic structure from all the other ones out there, and it happens to be the only one that's being harassed by Chaos or other beings like him. The rest just sort of falls into place on its own.
If Senshi exist in other universes then I can't imagine any life-supporting planet not having a Senshi to protect it, and the bureau has dozens of those in its territory even if you presume that they can only travel to a few worlds in each universe. Mid, Vaizen, Ruwella, Alzas, all of them are life-supporting planets that should have Senshi attached to them.
It just makes more sense to me that the Senshi would be unique to this universe, and if they're unique then Sailor Crystals and by extension the Galaxy Cauldron must be something that only exists in this universe. Our world is fundamentally different in basic structure from all the other ones out there, and it happens to be the only one that's being harassed by Chaos or other beings like him. The rest just sort of falls into place on its own.
D
Taiki explained in Stars this solar system is the furthest along in the whole galaxy for having 17 senshi in it since planets mostly die off before they get a senshi. No one comes close to this solar system. The closest in number after our system is Kinmoku at 4 . After Kinmoku we have two sets of twin planets in different systems (Lethe and Mnemosyne, Chi&Phi). After that we only have systems with single planet senshi, Mau, Mermaid, Cocoon, Coronis and Chuu.
A system is lucky to get even one senshi in SM.
A system is lucky to get even one senshi in SM.
D
None.
In that scene in particular Taiki was actually talking about what happens to planets naturally and explained that planets just happen to die midway before they get a Sailor Crystal. This was the scene when He/She was explaining Sailor Crystal Mechanics and how senshi are formed to Usagi to calm her down about her dead friends.
Galaxia on the other hand solely targeted planets with senshi and sailor crystals already there. Kakyuu mentioned this while begging Usagi to stop her.
In that scene in particular Taiki was actually talking about what happens to planets naturally and explained that planets just happen to die midway before they get a Sailor Crystal. This was the scene when He/She was explaining Sailor Crystal Mechanics and how senshi are formed to Usagi to calm her down about her dead friends.
Galaxia on the other hand solely targeted planets with senshi and sailor crystals already there. Kakyuu mentioned this while begging Usagi to stop her.
I can understand the latter. It's just that for years, it was like talking to a stone wall. Most of us couldn't even be sure that you were reading said criticisms because you rarely posted a direct reply.
Now, this, is what it means to be a bro in the fanfic writing community.
I can come up with half a dozen answers that doesn't make Luna sound like a retard.
I don't like it when canonically intelligent characters gets written as retards in a fanfic to serve a plot point.
FF.Net's Nanoha fandom is like 90% NanoFate. I remember hundreds of NanoFate on the net. By comparison, I only remember like two dozen Yuunoha fics, ONE Nanoha/Alisa fic, ONE Nanoha/Vita fic, ONE Nanoha/Vivio fic and no Nanoha/Subaru fics. (Outside of hentai, at least.) There's probably more, but they get drowned by the NanoFates too quickly.
I've seen NanoFate as a high school fic, NanoFate as a cross-dressing fic, NanoFate as a vampire fic, NanoFate as a war fic, and NanoFate as Romeo and Juliet. It's gets old. At this point, I'm wondering if it would be worth it for Graham to hire pre-accident Takamichi Shirou to assassinate Precia only Precia to fall for Shirou, and Shirou ends up with a harem, so that Fate and Nanoha are kinda sisters. Except that I can't imagine a mentally stable Precia creating a clone, and most of the readers will still want me to ship NanoFate.
So yeah, do the original thing and ship Nanoha with someone else for a change. Or do the pseudo-canon SM thing and have the Lunar Harem.
Now, this, is what it means to be a bro in the fanfic writing community.
I can come up with half a dozen answers that doesn't make Luna sound like a retard.
I don't like it when canonically intelligent characters gets written as retards in a fanfic to serve a plot point.FF.Net's Nanoha fandom is like 90% NanoFate. I remember hundreds of NanoFate on the net. By comparison, I only remember like two dozen Yuunoha fics, ONE Nanoha/Alisa fic, ONE Nanoha/Vita fic, ONE Nanoha/Vivio fic and no Nanoha/Subaru fics. (Outside of hentai, at least.) There's probably more, but they get drowned by the NanoFates too quickly.
I've seen NanoFate as a high school fic, NanoFate as a cross-dressing fic, NanoFate as a vampire fic, NanoFate as a war fic, and NanoFate as Romeo and Juliet. It's gets old. At this point, I'm wondering if it would be worth it for Graham to hire pre-accident Takamichi Shirou to assassinate Precia only Precia to fall for Shirou, and Shirou ends up with a harem, so that Fate and Nanoha are kinda sisters. Except that I can't imagine a mentally stable Precia creating a clone, and most of the readers will still want me to ship NanoFate.
So yeah, do the original thing and ship Nanoha with someone else for a change. Or do the pseudo-canon SM thing and have the Lunar Harem.
I remember a Nanoha/Vivio fic. It cast Nanoha who, after Fate dies, starts seeing Vivio as Fate. It's not as bad as it sounds; the author is fully aware of how wrong it is and protrays Nanoha as being a rather disturbed individual. It ends with Nanoha killing herself when she fully realizes how wrong her actions were.
Yeah. For a creepy darkfic, it was actually written well.
Yeah. For a creepy darkfic, it was actually written well.
At reincarnation, when else?
Thing is, I ship NanoFate myself. They fit together too well for me to really want to split them up; it's like writing a fic where Raising Heart is someone else's device, it just feels like something is fundamentally wrong with the idea, no offense to people who prefer Yuunoha or any other ship. The Lunar Harem would be an option I'm okay with but I don't think I have the skill to pull off a haremfic in anything resembling a believable manner.
Thing is, I ship NanoFate myself. They fit together too well for me to really want to split them up; it's like writing a fic where Raising Heart is someone else's device, it just feels like something is fundamentally wrong with the idea, no offense to people who prefer Yuunoha or any other ship. The Lunar Harem would be an option I'm okay with but I don't think I have the skill to pull off a haremfic in anything resembling a believable manner.
Hah hah, have Hayate be the Endymion aspect & Fate the Moonlight Knight aspect? This is all reincarnation & alternate identities regardless. Since Fate is originally a clone anyways, perhaps although she takes the physical attributes of Alicia, she receives the star seed/soul attributes from Endymion. I know the two are really just a split personality, but hey, clones & mad scientists! Professor Tomoe did land Hotaru....
Secret rationale? Nanoha, Fate, & Hayate are The Three Aces. Their stories are deeply intertwined & canon is just ship-tease. Further, Hayate is the center of As & the driving force in StrikerS.
Though I admit, Hayate wouldn't be bad as Saturn due to the Book of Darkness. Maybe have the Book of Darkness be a representation of the Death aspect of her powers & her guardians the reborn aspect.
Hmm, a random thought: wouldn't Hayate perhaps be the best Usagi? In terms of already having her four guardians linked to herself, since Seiya mentioned before the Inners eventually say they live for Usagi, much to Usagi's dislike.... Oh, to Hayate's dislike as well for her own guardians.
Another idea mentioned by someone else recently, although mean to Minako, is to have Nanoha take Sailor Venus' spot. One of the Nanoha series can replace the Code Name Sailor V story. If I am correct, Nanoha does fill in lots of the blanks for Minako's abilities & roles, though not her off-duty half, hah hah.
The first idea allows for
Secret rationale? Nanoha, Fate, & Hayate are The Three Aces. Their stories are deeply intertwined & canon is just ship-tease. Further, Hayate is the center of As & the driving force in StrikerS.
Though I admit, Hayate wouldn't be bad as Saturn due to the Book of Darkness. Maybe have the Book of Darkness be a representation of the Death aspect of her powers & her guardians the reborn aspect.
Hmm, a random thought: wouldn't Hayate perhaps be the best Usagi? In terms of already having her four guardians linked to herself, since Seiya mentioned before the Inners eventually say they live for Usagi, much to Usagi's dislike.... Oh, to Hayate's dislike as well for her own guardians.
Another idea mentioned by someone else recently, although mean to Minako, is to have Nanoha take Sailor Venus' spot. One of the Nanoha series can replace the Code Name Sailor V story. If I am correct, Nanoha does fill in lots of the blanks for Minako's abilities & roles, though not her off-duty half, hah hah.
The first idea allows for
I feel that Hayate would serve better as the new "Endymion" myself. Mostly, because she is from Earth whereas, Fate isn't. I think the Earth would select one of it's own to be its knight personally. And yeah, the Wolkenritter would then be able to assume the vacant 4 General position.
And it's not like you're limited to just 9 Senshi anyway. The manga had load more.
Another way to do it...actually, Fate doesn't need to be a Senshi specifically, she just need to be on par. How about Beryl mucking with the Jewel Seeds and Fate ending up with a couple of them irremediably fused to her Linker Core ? That would be an original approach.
And it's not like you're limited to just 9 Senshi anyway. The manga had load more.
Another way to do it...actually, Fate doesn't need to be a Senshi specifically, she just need to be on par. How about Beryl mucking with the Jewel Seeds and Fate ending up with a couple of them irremediably fused to her Linker Core ? That would be an original approach.
Hayate is the Master of the Tome of the Night Sky, which is a prestigious title so long as the book is functional and fully-intact, but reality-warping healing magic and root-level access to the Book's code by way of being Al Hazard's heirs makes that more feasible than in canon. But hold that thought, because I've got something similar.
I noted a few posts back that there's nothing stopping Fate from being a genuine Sailor Earth since she's got Earth's sailor crystal and she's female. But there's also nothing stopping Nanoha from being that character if we pull a little switcheroo.
Picture this: Nanoha transforms to fight her first youma and does a custom variation on Usagi's old introduction (after blasting the youma away from Naru or whoever, but still). When she starts to introduce herself though, she has to stop and think up a name for herself. Usagi just kind of jumped straight to Sailor Moon if memory serves, so here's a little hint that something's not right.
Nanoha doesn't need purification attacks for most of the series because she's fighting the generals rather than possession victims. For this reason, nobody ever notices that she doesn't actually have purification attacks, just beamspam and her family sword techniques. When the crew finally get around to looking for the Silver Crystal, Nanoha doesn't have it. Fate does. Because Fate is Princess Serenity and Nanoha is Endymion.
I noted a few posts back that there's nothing stopping Fate from being a genuine Sailor Earth since she's got Earth's sailor crystal and she's female. But there's also nothing stopping Nanoha from being that character if we pull a little switcheroo.
Picture this: Nanoha transforms to fight her first youma and does a custom variation on Usagi's old introduction (after blasting the youma away from Naru or whoever, but still). When she starts to introduce herself though, she has to stop and think up a name for herself. Usagi just kind of jumped straight to Sailor Moon if memory serves, so here's a little hint that something's not right.
Nanoha doesn't need purification attacks for most of the series because she's fighting the generals rather than possession victims. For this reason, nobody ever notices that she doesn't actually have purification attacks, just beamspam and her family sword techniques. When the crew finally get around to looking for the Silver Crystal, Nanoha doesn't have it. Fate does. Because Fate is Princess Serenity and Nanoha is Endymion.
Nanoha is the reincarnation of Endymion? I could get behind that. Although you would have to explain how Fate is the reincarnation of Princess Serenity. She wasn't created anywhere in the Solar System, nor was Alicia born there. I hate to say it, but Fate'll be kind of useless in the long run. Well, maybe not useless, but she definitely won't be in the league of any Senshi.
That's easy. Fate (as in destiny, not the girl) plays a certain role in the events of the series, particularly how all the Senshi conveniently happen to meet again in their present life, how Usagi stumbles into every Dark Kingdom plot in the anime, and how the villains always come and attack Tokyo rather than some other city. I think that's what Queen Serenity tapped into in order to make sure all the Senshi reincarnated within a certain distance of each other. Endymion and Serenity were reincarnated into Usagi and Mamoru because U&M were meant to meet and fall for each other on some level. Fate and Nanoha have the same thing going for them; Nanoha is the most suitable host for Endymion's star seed and Fate is both very well-suited for Serenity's SS and she's predestined to meet Nanoha by way of the jewel seed incident. If that means sending the princess's soul outside of the current universe, well that's okay, it'll be coming right back in a few thousand years and it's not like QS wasn't already folding spacetime into a pretzel with that wish anyways.
First, two people who knew each other thousands of years ago just happening to meet on a street corner (and not just once, but several times in a short time span as Usagi and Mamoru do) is contrived no matter who it happens to unless there's some guiding influence behind the events taking place, and I don't mean that Fanon!Pluto is hiding behind a curtain somewhere.
Second, drop the tone. I can respect that other people prefer other pairings, but please respect that I prefer this one in return.
Third, as you pointed out already, without some kind of power-up Fate is going to be useless in the long run (and really, even within this arc; she has basically no hope of winning against either the Senshi or the Dark Kingdom without the plot intervening in some way) and I don't want that for her any more than I want the Nanoha characters to make the Senshi useless. Giving her one of the gold/silver crystals is my preferred way of keeping her plot-relevant as opposed to bullshitting something up like the aforementioned fusing of jewel seeds to her linker core. Other characters have other power-ups; Hayate has the Tome, which can be purified and possibly absorb Senshi magic in some manner to boost both her and the Wolkenritter if necessary. Suzuka and Arisa have the seeds of Uranus and Neptune, they've been all set from the beginning. Even Yuuno has the Infinity Library, which will be very important in the long run because of the Al Hazard thing.
Second, drop the tone. I can respect that other people prefer other pairings, but please respect that I prefer this one in return.
Third, as you pointed out already, without some kind of power-up Fate is going to be useless in the long run (and really, even within this arc; she has basically no hope of winning against either the Senshi or the Dark Kingdom without the plot intervening in some way) and I don't want that for her any more than I want the Nanoha characters to make the Senshi useless. Giving her one of the gold/silver crystals is my preferred way of keeping her plot-relevant as opposed to bullshitting something up like the aforementioned fusing of jewel seeds to her linker core. Other characters have other power-ups; Hayate has the Tome, which can be purified and possibly absorb Senshi magic in some manner to boost both her and the Wolkenritter if necessary. Suzuka and Arisa have the seeds of Uranus and Neptune, they've been all set from the beginning. Even Yuuno has the Infinity Library, which will be very important in the long run because of the Al Hazard thing.
What about Ach Scheisse? That isn't NanoFate.
I've read that one too. Wasn't it also vaguely implied to be some sort of psychic attack against Nanoha instead of something that was actually happening?
Weren't you one of the people who went on a rant when an author suggested writing Yuunoha on SB once?
I've read that one too. Wasn't it also vaguely implied to be some sort of psychic attack against Nanoha instead of something that was actually happening?
Weren't you one of the people who went on a rant when an author suggested writing Yuunoha on SB once?
I don't recall ever doing anything of the sort, though I've had my share of stupid arguments and it's perfectly possible I'm forgetting one. Either way, I was on AnimeSuki when the NanoFate shipping wars were in full swing so I know how irritating die-hard shippers are; whatever my other failings may be I don't make a habit of getting my panties in a twist over pairings.
You mean like if the person who directed the reincarnation casting the spell to ensure that her daughter, her court, and her lover would all be born in the same timeframe and a short distance from each other?
Is that outside of possibility? I don't see it as difficult for Serenity to have looked down at the Earth, spotted one location and directed everyone's soul to go there. It's entirely possible they were all born at the same hospital! Usagi was at the same hospital Mamoru was taken to when her brother was born if I remember correctly (though this was anime/movie so I can't be certain if it follows manga canon or not). People usually have a preference about what hospital they go to, so it's entirely likely Usagi and Mamoru were both born there.
Seeing something contrived like Fate somehow being Endymion to Nanoha's Usagi would make me drop the story faster than Bissek's did.
You want Nanoha/Fate pairing in this story? Make the characters work for it. Have Fate feel inadequate by being useless on the front lines while Nanoha is starting to feel attracted to Mamoru. You know, things like tension and drama? That way when they finally resolve the issue, it moves the audience (or it should).
Also, as someone else mentioned, eventually Usagi/Nanoha could create senshi. Since she's actually Sailor Cosmos and not Sailor Moon, she could make a real Sailor Moon.
Sorry if I'm a bit sharp here, but I'm a bit incredulous that you say it's contrived for two reincarnated lovers to find each other... and then you want to do the exact same thing, but even more extreme. :headbanger:
Is that outside of possibility? I don't see it as difficult for Serenity to have looked down at the Earth, spotted one location and directed everyone's soul to go there. It's entirely possible they were all born at the same hospital! Usagi was at the same hospital Mamoru was taken to when her brother was born if I remember correctly (though this was anime/movie so I can't be certain if it follows manga canon or not). People usually have a preference about what hospital they go to, so it's entirely likely Usagi and Mamoru were both born there.
Seeing something contrived like Fate somehow being Endymion to Nanoha's Usagi would make me drop the story faster than Bissek's did.
You want Nanoha/Fate pairing in this story? Make the characters work for it. Have Fate feel inadequate by being useless on the front lines while Nanoha is starting to feel attracted to Mamoru. You know, things like tension and drama? That way when they finally resolve the issue, it moves the audience (or it should).
Also, as someone else mentioned, eventually Usagi/Nanoha could create senshi. Since she's actually Sailor Cosmos and not Sailor Moon, she could make a real Sailor Moon.
Sorry if I'm a bit sharp here, but I'm a bit incredulous that you say it's contrived for two reincarnated lovers to find each other... and then you want to do the exact same thing, but even more extreme. :headbanger: