Nanoha Force

[Amaranth]

And don't forget Signum barely sorted out her dance with Thanos's girlfriend thanks to her still somewhat high durability, she returned to the battlefield in two and a half months (still on medical watch, though) from injuries that could have killed or at the very least crippled anyone else for life (Nanoha took years of rehab to come back from much less). I guess that's what made her an acceptable target aside of being Nanoha-level and the last Wolkenritter to job. Because she can plausibly take the punishment and come back in time to do stuff before the season ends.

As for Nanoha's technique I think you're under or overestimating her. Nanoha's signature style involves lots of beams but she's very versatile and as her fight with Signum shown she's no slouch on melee either. Interestingly, her Fortress and Strike Cannon units, while still focusing primarily on ranged attacks it also enables a couple specific melee options for Nanoha to use (Shield-1's sword, Strike Cannon's close mode, Shield-2's beam sword, Melee adapted Raising Heart). She's not a dedicated melee fighter like Signum or inclined towards that like Fate. Even if she gets trounced there's no use trying to do a 180 on who she is and how she fights because she's really good at it. That just means she has to learn and polish her technique more. Nanoha is like the most determined person in the cast. Something that failed to break Signum's spirit won't be able to even dent Nanoha's confidence. Not at this point unless the consequences of her failure are truly meaningful for her on a personal level.

I can't help but think of a character that can job the entire cast at once, ONCE and not do it again (Nanoha's Aizen)...

I wonder if Hades will really step up his game and go full "all according to the plan" on everybody.

Gee, I guess I really do like siding with the bad guys... Except Creed Graphite...

The problem is that Nanoha's (and other mages) awesome techniques ARE not work on Elcipse-powered people. Nanoha can charge her Starlaight Breaker at point-blank range into Arnage's face and sole damage redhead would sustain would be a pain in eyes due to brighteness of the beame; same here about Axel Shooter and even her binds.

Eclipse are so dangerous it's because it basically said "now take all you powerful magic, years of training and shove it where sun doesn't shine". And thus it take ALL of versability our heroes boasts with it. Kinetic weapon are simple and reliable - no questions - but it's perfomance fit the LARGE units much better than special forces.

Which is why I like Force. It's basically telling the cast "nuh uh! ya can't solo everything you see" and that means they have to up their game.

She should be unable to beat someone who's as strong as she is and has slightly more experience. There should be a couple around. I'm telling you I feel Squall's designated target will be Nanoha much like Cypha had Signum.

>first guy Touma fought
>Touma dreams about him after they met, Veyron makes a point of saying he thinks little of him
>gets a unison girl exactly like Touma's

Yeah, he's gonna be fighting Nanoha. The character he hasn't fought, interacted or even mentioned once. Like, what?

And if Cypha is anyone's girlfriend it's Sundowner from Rising. Google 'Sundowner smile' and you'll see why.

Didn't Mr Silent pick a fight with Fate?

This happens all the time. Perhaps Thoma will attempt to meet the Hucks again somewhere in the docks and Nanoha will happen to eavesdrop on this, go there earlier and get to see a lion sleeping...

It would be really funny if Veyron end up as a some sort of a Sarcastic Mentor for Thoma.

There are not enough whatevers for the shenanigans that will ensue...

She should be unable to beat someone who's as strong as she is and has slightly more experience. There should be a couple around. I'm telling you I feel Squall's designated target will be Nanoha much like Cypha had Signum.

The only problem with Veyron targeting Nanoha is that Nanoha is more experienced than him. Vey does have skill and has the advantage of anti-magic, but in a straight fight, I don't think it'd be much of a match

She doesn't get trounced for drama. She gets trounced because she's just a mage.

If she has a perfect winning record, it makes her boring. She needs to get trounced and change her fighting style further. What I'd want is for her usual Senbonzakura beams to not do shit because they're, you know, Senbonzakura beams. That way we may see a Nanoha that goes melee more often, starts using bind and precision shots or uses explosive, non beam attacks.

Well, nothing really changed when Ichigo fought Grimjoww again. He didn't win by thinking differently or changing his battle tactics. He just won because he got stronger

Nanoha has refined he technique to the the point that theoretically, she doesn't need anything else. For the record, she has bind spells, and uses them to trap her opponents so she could blast them, it's just that y'know Touma has anti-magic.

It also depends on compatibility. It's sort of the reason people like Assassin could almost trounce Saber up yet he can't do that with Archer.

Also, in Ichigo's case, it was understandable. Beyond Bankai, he didn't have any new tricks, and the mask was arguably a new trick.

Basically, how to make Nanoha cease relying on bombardment and have her actually run risks? Because it's her bombardment fighting style that allows her to fight from beyond the battlefield.

Assuming that Eclipse-virus didn't have other nasty surprises. Don't forget - viruses can mutate and thus becaming immune to the medicine that worked earlier.

Better yet, have one of the main characters get infected---perhaps Nanoha herself. Then sit back and watch what happens next and how they all deal with it...

I'm getting a Pyrrha Omega and God Slaying Blade Works Shirou vibe from this... <_<

That said, if the AEC stuff turns out to be useless and Nanoha gets jobbed by a Huck and then realizes she can fight them whilst infected, then I'll buy it!

Now that I think about it, scratch that! Fund it! Fund it! Fund it! Fund it!

 

[Akiyoshi]

Basically, how to make Nanoha cease relying on bombardment and have her actually run risks?

Trounced by Fate (no pun intended).
Sent to hospital by Vita and Shamal.
Viciously beaten by the Will of the BoD.
Nearly crippled for life.
Trashed around like a ragdoll by Sankt Kaiser Vivio and using life threatening power up to keep up.
Nearly bysected by Terminator Tohma.

Maybe it's only me but it seems Nanoha has run lots of risks during her career. Growing to be called Ace of Aces was not a walk in the park.

As for relying on bombardment you basically want Nanoha to become another character. She's a professional trained to hone her natural talents and then some. Nanoha is reliant on bombardment because it's what she does best but she doesn't just rest on her talent. She keeps improving her technique for which her two jobs as combat instructor and prototype tester are of great help. One on the things I like about this series is that, for the most part, avoids the usual cliche of old techniques being forgotten forever once new ones are introduced. Each season Nanoha reveals a new ace under her poofy sleeve but also gift us the dramatic return of one of her old moves playing an equally important part. Eclipse challenged her by rendering most magical moves useless but Nanoha mantains herself true to her vocation and likely will keep on doing it even if defeated. Nanoha doesn't replace anything on her arsenal, she just keep adding options and improvements.

Because it's her bombardment fighting style that allows her to fight from beyond the battlefield.

It's worth to note that for an alledgedly ranged fighter Nanoha is not shy to get her hands dirty in the slightiest. Most of her important battles have been fought in CQC for a good portion. Her opponents are strong and wise enough to not let her taking distance for long and thus Nanoha is forced to come up with ways to trap them so she can lay waste on them (ACS maneuver is one of my favorites, her answer to an opponent she can't escape was to ram it and then fire point blank, it didn't worked but it shown Nanoha's quick thinking and massive guts). Keeping up with Signum and SK Vivio at melee is an impressive testament of her adaptability.

I can't help but think of a character that can job the entire cast at once, ONCE and not do it again (Nanoha's Aizen)...

Hades definitely seems to be the sort of villain that could pull that off as he's being hyped as the ultimate being by the plot. I'm just worried about the part of fighting the whole cast at once... the cast is HUGE! That fight will be a nightmare to depict on manga panels and I don't trusts Yukari Higa's drawing skill that much (Nanoha VS. Tohma and Signum VS. Cypha Round 2 were terrible).

 

[Rising Dragon]

Don't forget, Aki, that some of Nanoha's new abilities are based on her old ones. Like Strike Stars, which is effectively a combination of Accel Shooter and Divine Buster utilized together.

 

[Akiyoshi]

True. It was pretty hardcore when she blasted Signum's face with it. Nanoha Vs. Signum part II is one of my favorite fights in the franchise because how even their strengths were and how both made galore of classic and unused moves alike in sick ways (Jinppu Rekka FTW! I tremble imagining Kaori Shimizu shouting that ).

I also liked how S.S.A. was a follow up to her shield bind combo. Both were new moves born from her standard ones showing Nanoha's constant dedication.

 

[Amaranth]

Basically, how to make Nanoha cease relying on bombardment and have her actually run risks?

Trounced by Fate (no pun intended).
Sent to hospital by Vita and Shamal.
Viciously beaten by the Will of the BoD.
Nearly crippled for life.
Trashed around like a ragdoll by Sankt Kaiser Vivio and using life threatening power up to keep up.
Nearly bysected by Terminator Tohma.

Maybe it's only me but it seems Nanoha has run lots of risks during her career. Growing to be called Ace of Aces was not a walk in the park.

Those are not real defeats. One was because of overusing her powers, the other was a victory and the third one was a close call but she made it out unscathed.

A defeat would be "no longer able to fight" and "at the opponent's mercy".

As for relying on bombardment you basically want Nanoha to become another character. She's a professional trained to hone her natural talents and then some. Nanoha is reliant on bombardment because it's what she does best but she doesn't just rest on her talent. She keeps improving her technique for which her two jobs as combat instructor and prototype tester are of great help. One on the things I like about this series is that, for the most part, avoids the usual cliche of old techniques being forgotten forever once new ones are introduced. Each season Nanoha reveals a new ace under her poofy sleeve but also gift us the dramatic return of one of her old moves playing an equally important part. Eclipse challenged her by rendering most magical moves useless but Nanoha mantains herself true to her vocation and likely will keep on doing it even if defeated. Nanoha doesn't replace anything on her arsenal, she just keep adding options and improvements.

That's something that I'd consider problematic. Her arsenal keeps growing, but it doesn't seems to allow for more versatility. I specifically like it when characters can no longer fight the way they're used to. There's a reason I was glad when Shirou started using traced swords instead of reinforcing anything or when Ichigo started using Bankai Getsuga (and grew annoyed when it was all he would do).

Because it's her bombardment fighting style that allows her to fight from beyond the battlefield.

Which is a problem. She needs an enemy that either won't give her the time for using her bombardment spells or that can nullify anything she throws at him from afar.

She needs a challenger. Someone that can "tear the Viper's nest from the sky".

Bonus points if whoever does it has an angel motif.

It's worth to note that for an alledgedly ranged fighter Nanoha is not shy to get her hands dirty in the slightiest. Most of her important battles have been fought in CQC for a good portion. Her opponents are strong and wise enough to not let her taking distance for long and thus Nanoha is forced to come up with ways to trap them so she can lay waste on them (ACS maneuver is one of my favorites, her answer to an opponent she can't escape was to ram it and then fire point blank, it didn't worked but it shown Nanoha's quick thinking and massive guts). Keeping up with Signum and SK Vivio at melee is an impressive testament of her adaptability.

Well, the idea is that even if she gets range there's nothing she can do from there. That way, the battle won't end when she puts enough distance between herself and the opponent or fires point blank, so it will all be far more unpredictable.

The idea is that we don't know when the battle's over and whether she'll win or lose up until the end.

Hades definitely seems to be the sort of villain that could pull that off as he's being hyped as the ultimate being by the plot. I'm just worried about the part of fighting the whole cast at once... the cast is HUGE! That fight will be a nightmare to depict on manga panels and I don't trusts Yukari Higa's drawing skill that much (Nanoha VS. Tohma and Signum VS. Cypha Round 2 were terrible).
[/quote]

It just a panel for each character getting shafted. Kubo could pull it off and the man is known for his "NO BACKGROUNDS" policy.

 

[Rising Dragon]

The wording used, though, was running risks, not being defeated.

 

[Akiyoshi]

Plus both her defeats at the hands of Fate and Vita filled perfectly the "no longer able to fight" and "at the opponent's mercy" parts he mentioned. What you're asking for already happened to her and you know how she reacted to it. It won't be different if it happens again.

Well, the idea is that even if she gets range there's nothing she can do from there. That way, the battle won't end when she puts enough distance between herself and the opponent or fires point blank, so it will all be far more unpredictable.

Basically you want a foe that no sells Nanoha's attacks and beats her decisively, how is that unpredictable?

It just a panel for each character getting shafted. Kubo could pull it off and the man is known for his "NO BACKGROUNDS" policy.

I count over 28 characters just in a passing tought. That will be lots of panels xDU

 

[Zextrace]

1st season and A's Nanoha are what bother me. She was a complete newbie in season one fighting an experienced mage who was referred to as being a prodigy with the speed she progressed through training. Maybe could have been handled better if the series was 24 episodes. But as it is, she trained just a little, and was able to deal with someone more experienced than her, and a higher magic rating than her.
...And the BoD. She actually made Rein try. Who is supposedly a planet buster and should have the power to go toe to toe with every mage on and around the Asura with relative ease. Rein has the power of Nanoha and Fates linker core as well as many other powerful beings/mages. She also took out Vita during their second confrontation with relative ease. Her first confrontation was only lost because she had an inferior cartridge upgrade and was attacked while not even in her barrier jacket...She also needed to do her typical "Maybe I can understand you if you just talk to me" speech. In-fact, I'm pretty sure Nanoha would lose even less if she focused strictly on fighting rather than trying to convince her unwilling opponents with words.

The ace of aces is a valid reason for her power post-a's, as it was developed through years of experience...Although i'd think 19 years old is far from anyones peak as a mages ability to gain experience.. However, first season and a's was merely plot armor from being the titular character.

 

[Akiyoshi]

It was plot armor indeed but not entirely from nowhere. Nanoha is also a prodigy, maybe not to the range if Fate but Yunno noted both her latent magical potential and her fast learning skills. On top of that we also were informed how Nanoha progressed so fast and what it costed her (her impressive career almost ended forever at age 12).

 

[Amaranth]

The wording used, though, was running risks, not being defeated.

They both go hand in hand. Mortal risk that actually happens... You know, the kind of thing that would make Nanoha think "I-I'm gonna die... No! I can't die here! I can't, I can't I CAN'T!" that usually tells us that nothing short of a miracle (which can then happen) will save her.

Following on the Eclipsee Nanoha idea, that would be an interesting point to start things.

Plus both her defeats at the hands of Fate and Vita filled perfectly the "no longer able to fight" and "at the opponent's mercy" parts he mentioned. What you're asking for already happened to her and you know how she reacted to it. It won't be different if it happens again.

Well, the idea is that even if she gets range there's nothing she can do from there. That way, the battle won't end when she puts enough distance between herself and the opponent or fires point blank, so it will all be far more unpredictable.

Basically you want a foe that no sells Nanoha's attacks and beats her decisively, how is that unpredictable?

Err, not really. But when characters notice their powers no longer work, it makes for a good shock. No selling her magic with Eclipse is useless if she can just get something else that does the same thing.

Which is why I think that part about melee attacks not working either screwed things up big time. If only it was about going full melee...

So yeah, rather than her bracing for an attack that never connects like it did with Thoma, the attack connects, she crashes against a wall, is unable to move (but still conscious) and Thoma is right on her, ready to finish her off... Then everyone gets in the way and we end up in the same place we are right now in the story...

I count over 28 characters just in a passing tought. That will be lots of panels xDU

Well, as always, I didn't worded that up right... I mean, main fighting characters. Aces, Wolks, StrikerS guys, perhaps a returning Chrono (nothing says better "yup, that just happened" than Chrono getting almost bisected) and then Hades smiling evilly in the end.

1st season and A's Nanoha are what bother me. She was a complete newbie in season one fighting an experienced mage who was referred to as being a prodigy with the speed she progressed through training. Maybe could have been handled better if the series was 24 episodes. But as it is, she trained just a little, and was able to deal with someone more experienced than her, and a higher magic rating than her.
...And the BoD. She actually made Rein try. Who is supposedly a planet buster and should have the power to go toe to toe with every mage on and around the Asura with relative ease. Rein has the power of Nanoha and Fates linker core as well as many other powerful beings/mages. She also took out Vita during their second confrontation with relative ease. Her first confrontation was only lost because she had an inferior cartridge upgrade and was attacked while not even in her barrier jacket...She also needed to do her typical "Maybe I can understand you if you just talk to me" speech. In-fact, I'm pretty sure Nanoha would lose even less if she focused strictly on fighting rather than trying to convince her unwilling opponents with words.

The ace of aces is a valid reason for her power post-a's, as it was developed through years of experience...Although i'd think 19 years old is far from anyones peak as a mages ability to gain experience.. However, first season and a's was merely plot armor from being the titular character.

It was plot armor indeed but not entirely from nowhere. Nanoha is also a prodigy, maybe not to the range if Fate but Yunno noted both her latent magical potential and her fast learning skills. On top of that we also were informed how Nanoha progressed so fast and what it costed her (her impressive career almost ended forever at age 12).

 

[Akiyoshi]

You know, the kind of thing that would make Nanoha think "I-I'm gonna die... No! I can't die here! I can't, I can't I CAN'T!" that usually tells us that nothing short of a miracle (which can then happen) will save her.

Fortunately, Nanoha is not that mopey, when things does get ugly for her she indeed shocks but its usually her facial expressions. She experienced that when she helplessly tried to point Vita with RH after getting trounced, with Movie Reinforce when she was tied up about to eat a Giant Drill and finally when Deville of Huckebein teleported right behind her and she realized she'll get beheaded. She went Oh Crap but recovered her momentum fast once rescued.

Err, not really. But when characters notice their powers no longer work, it makes for a good shock. No selling her magic with Eclipse is useless if she can just get something else that does the same thing.

Which is why I think that part about melee attacks not working either screwed things up big time. If only it was about going full melee...

Yeah, about that. As mentioned Nanoha is an aerial bombarder for vocation she rolls with that and keeps improving on it. If beamspam doesn't work against something she'll search for a way to make it work rather than throwing talent and years of dedication to the trash which Is something I love of her. Even an Eclipse infected Nanoha most likely will include some sort of beamspam on her repertoire. Also she's one member of a large team if there's a threat for where melee is more convenient they'll just send one of their many melee aces with Nanoha giving support where her abilities work best.

So yeah, rather than her bracing for an attack that never connects like it did with Thoma, the attack connects, she crashes against a wall, is unable to move (but still conscious) and Thoma is right on her, ready to finish her off... Then everyone gets in the way and we end up in the same place we are right now in the story...

You almost described the outcome of Nanoha VS. Vita Round 1 word for word.

Well, as always, I didn't worded that up right... I mean, main fighting characters. Aces, Wolks, StrikerS guys, perhaps a returning Chrono (nothing says better "yup, that just happened" than Chrono getting almost bisected) and then Hades smiling evilly in the end.

You're forgetting the numbers, the Huckebein and the Grendels. Around 23 if we doesn't count Chrono and the FORCE trio.

 

[vic-vic]

Well, i think there is a possibility for a Nanoha's breakdown Elcipse-infected (who know just HOW many gung-ho psyhos serve the Hades) starts to frag her friends despite her best efforts.

 

[Akiyoshi]

I guess it could work if it involves her friends because Nanoha is a selfless and brave person. Everytime something bad happens to her her reaction is "well, shit happens" and work to get back in form. It's when her close ones are involved when her composure wavers. I remember when she losed it after withnessing a broadcast of Vivio's torture it was one of the few times she ever relied on someone for support.

 

[vic-vic]

I fear that Hades could start with Teana. Those images created by his bloodlust can be a very grim foreshadowing.

After all Force called "the record of magical war"... and war is hell

P.S. With all those corporate intrigues and the mention of Eclipse-virus changing people's personality I suddenly had this idea: Reactor's meltdown that killed Alicia testarossa was actially Vandein corp. sabotage. And then Hades/his predecessor tested the virus on Precis Testarossa, thus turning her into the psyho.

Bonus point for doing this after she created Fate and lived happy with her for some time

 

[Akiyoshi]

Hard to believe considering Precia never displayed anything remotely similar to Eclipse. And she canonly battled part of the main cast in the GoD game (defeated by the first cast member who fell victim to an EC driver no less).

As for Teana it will certainly be a devastating shock for the readers and Nanoha alike. She's her number one disciple, the person she saw fail and stand up growing and realizing its potential she's almost like a younger sister for her. Seeing all of it lost forever before her eyes will definitely hurt her. Nanoha struggling to remain professional and not seek revenge for the fallen dreams of Teana will be interesting.

Tsuzuki promised deaths on both sides but he cowed up with Signum so its uncertain if he has the balls to go after main characters.

 

[Rising Dragon]

If they were to kill Teana off I'd be very upset. She's my favorite character in the franchise thus far. That said, chickening out on character deaths in Nanoha has happened before. Vita had all the hallmarks of an incoming death in StrikerS, but still survived.

 

[Akiyoshi]

Heh, that's true. Vita was rising one death flag after another almost on purpose. I was preparing mentally to mourn her when Hayate appeared out of freaking nowhere. It was a cop out done well. The scene was great.

 

[Amaranth]

Fortunately, Nanoha is not that mopey, when things does get ugly for her she indeed shocks but its usually her facial expressions. She experienced that when she helplessly tried to point Vita with RH after getting trounced, with Movie Reinforce when she was tied up about to eat a Giant Drill and finally when Deville of Huckebein teleported right behind her and she realized she'll get beheaded. She went Oh Crap but recovered her momentum fast once rescued.

Yeah, that's the thing. When Deville does that, she recovers, but is too slow and is decommissioned right at the moment. Without Nanoha, everybody starts getting riled up or they run.

Yeah, about that. As mentioned Nanoha is an aerial bombarder for vocation she rolls with that and keeps improving on it. If beamspam doesn't work against something she'll search for a way to make it work rather than throwing talent and years of dedication to the trash which Is something I love of her. Even an Eclipse infected Nanoha most likely will include some sort of beamspam on her repertoire. Also she's one member of a large team if there's a threat for where melee is more convenient they'll just send one of their many melee aces with Nanoha giving support where her abilities work best.

Which is why the circumstances are tempting in force. We have an enemy that can no sell her beamspams. All we need is for her to go at it alone and her equipment to run out of battery before the trashing starts and I'll be watching while eating some popcorn.

Basically, Nanoha needs to get the Signum treatment. I liked her way more after that!

You almost described the outcome of Nanoha VS. Vita Round 1 word for word.

I liked that one a bit...

You're forgetting the numbers, the Huckebein and the Grendels. Around 23 if we doesn't count Chrono and the FORCE trio.

Well, we only need one of each to drive the point home...

I fear that Hades could start with Teana. Those images created by his bloodlust can be a very grim foreshadowing.

After all Force called "the record of magical war"... and war is hell

P.S. With all those corporate intrigues and the mention of Eclipse-virus changing people's personality I suddenly had this idea: Reactor's meltdown that killed Alicia testarossa was actially Vandein corp. sabotage. And then Hades/his predecessor tested the virus on Precis Testarossa, thus turning her into the psyho.

Bonus point for doing this after she created Fate and lived happy with her for some time

Stop reading my thoughts Edward Cullen!

And no! Not Tia!

 

[Akiyoshi]

the Signum treatment.

I feel guilty about this becoming a thing as I probably had a hand on it happening o_oU

 

[vic-vic]

Again, without intervention of her friends Nanoha would be either dead or crippled for the rest of her life twice... and we're only in the beginning. Let's face it - the seriously powerful infected people don't consider Nanoha as a potent threat and to be frank her record in the Force are far from being stellar: she tryed to hold Thoma back (while he himself tryed his best to hold his power in check and don't hurt Nanoha) and almost got killed without damaging her opponent at all. Well, she participated in catching Kurt and his friend... can we consider this as a major success for Ace of Aces?

Heck, even Signum's rematch ended with her equipment almost of point of breaking apart and Sypha got away with alight (for Huckebein) injures. And it was confirmed that Cypha held back; and she still crack solid metalic shield with her vare hand. Going in melee with someone like that would be a suicide for Nanoha.

What's funny that only Ace that get upgrade with new eqipment it's Fate! She dueled with Cypha on equal footing (for a time at least), stopped DeVile from beheading Nanoha and she even injured Curren (even though it didn't helped their case at all - Curren escaped again and even stole their equipment during the battle)

 

[Hoki]

Again, without intervention of her friends Nanoha would be either dead or crippled for the rest of her life twice... and we're only in the beginning. Let's face it - the seriously powerful infected people don't consider Nanoha as a potent threat and to be frank her record in the Force are far from being stellar: she tryed to hold Thoma back (while he himself tryed his best to hold his power in check and don't hurt Nanoha) and almost got killed without damaging her opponent at all. Well, she participated in catching Kurt and his friend... can we consider this as a major success for Ace of Aces?

Heck, even Signum's rematch ended with her equipment almost of point of breaking apart and Sypha got away with alight (for Huckebein) injures. And it was confirmed that Cypha held back; and she still crack solid metalic shield with her vare hand. Going in melee with someone like that would be a suicide for Nanoha.

What's funny that only Ace that get upgrade with new eqipment it's Fate! She dueled with Cypha on equal footing (for a time at least), stopped DeVile from beheading Nanoha and she even injured Curren (even though it didn't helped their case at all - Curren escaped again and even stole their equipment during the battle)

Why does everyone keep forgetting that AEC equipment are simply in their development stages, thus are still not very effective weapons against Eclipse infectees? The reason they are being used in the first place is because the TSAB has a ban on mass weaponry, so they can't just use missiles and stuff against the Hucks or any other Eclipse infectee for that matter. If they introduced villains that also operate on the same magic as the Aces, then the conflict would be resolved in about a chapter or two.

Basically, Force is a giant nerfing of our heroines, so new main character Touma gets a chance to shine, and the new villains get to be a threat, not that he got to shine as much in the first place. Heck, sufficiently powerful magic can scare Eclipse infectees as well. Remember Hayate and Heimdall?

On the other hand, the Eclipse and anything related to it is a logical way to have a conflict without resorting to another power level increase. The problem lies not in the heroes being weaker than the villains, but the villains having powers that the heroes cannot beat with their current arsenal. Veyron openly admitted that the progression of the anti Eclipse suppressants will someday make their healing factor no longer an advantage, and given what happened to Cypha during their rematch, it is safe to assume that the AEC equipment are getting better.

 

[Akiyoshi]

I agree with Fate having the best record out of the old cast in FORCE (well deserved, it was about time Fate got spotlight doing important stuff). And I also agree with the analize of Signum and Cypha's rematch. She got her ass kicked but Signum has to work hard for it and it wasn't conclusive as Cypha only received injuries we know she can easily heal from and got to escape.

That being said the vaccine bullets are a hard counter for the Hucks usual method as they tend to tank hits pretty frequently relying on their healing factor. Whit that removed from the equation they'll have to actually try in a fight and being carefull against the elites of Section Six. Specially the likes of Signum who started making a hobby of maiming her opponents without remorse.

It still pains me Bardiche is the only Device getting the 5th Gen treatement so far. I'm holding some whimsy faith in Hades revealing Caledfwlch Techniques is under his control and the AEC-equipment was part of his plan all along only for Chrono or Carim to reveal they suspected it from the start and secretly ran research to give the 5th Gen upgrade to the rest of the old devices. I know, that's some fabfic tier writing right there but hey I can dream and this is The Fan Fiction forum xD

 

[vic-vic]

Well, I still remember how Arnage suddenly pulled a second mode of her device and blasted her opponent with a frigging plasma canon. So I think we can expect Eclipse-users to also deploy a much more dangerous weaponry too in future.

And now they know that Special Force have AE-bullets, which mean they WOULDN'T got caught off guard next time. And what will our heroes do if Hucks stop held back and go straight for their lives. Hayate didn't survive because of her endurance or help of her friends, she survived only because Curren didn't want her head on plate.

Thoughm I think Curren get the idea that even if her family frag Hayate Aces and co then TSAB really stop to held back and deploy a really mountain-shattering non-magical ordnance.

 

[Rising Dragon]

Raising Heart's supposed to have the 5th Generation Terminal upgrade too, but I forget where the source was.

 

[Hoki]

Well, I still remember how Arnage suddenly pulled a second mode of her device and blasted her opponent with a frigging plasma canon. So I think we can expect Eclipse-users to also deploy a much more dangerous weaponry too in future.

And now they know that Special Force have AE-bullets, which mean they WOULDN'T got caught off guard next time. And what will our heroes do if Hucks stop held back and go straight for their lives. Hayate didn't survive because of her endurance or help of her friends, she survived only because Curren didn't want her head on plate.

Thoughm I think Curren get the idea that even if her family frag Hayate Aces and co then TSAB really stop to held back and deploy a really mountain-shattering non-magical ordnance.

They don't even need to lift the ban on non-magical weapons for that. They have a vault of lost logia at their disposal, not to mentions warships that can be equipped with dimension tearing cannons. Not outright killing Hayate, a high ranking TSAB officer, was the logical course of action, and Curren knew this.

Second, Arnage is one of the few examples of a villain that is too specialized for their own good. She has a lot of guns, rockets, and a plasma cannon, but her fighting style is simply "shoot opponent until they die." Isis can fight her just fine, heck, she nullifies her missiles and gives her a hard time before DeVille interfered. Not very promising, that one. The only Eclipse people who still haven't shown much are Curren, Veyron, Fortis, Stella (seriously her divider is the Esquad, her reacted form is probably a Mecha) and Hades.

Also, the Hucks are too reliant on their powers to actually try a different approach, hence the reason why they are looking for the Seed of Origin. I think they can't actually get more powerful without an external source, so they'd be very careful not to get caught with the AE-bullets, which would be very hard to do when faced with tacticians like Teana, Fate, and Nanoha. There's also Hades, whose power is specifically to nullify other Eclipse infectees.