Akiyoshi said:
I feel guilty about this becoming a thing as I probably had a hand on it happening o_oU
You didn't. It's also known as the Ichigo Kurosaki treatment, where every new enemy inevitably beats the tar out of the franchise's strongest character at least once and let's us see their blood in 4K with 300FPS.
Then the character fights back and returns the favor.
It's hardly a new thing, but having a decisive defeat that ends with an unconscious main character is a way to drive the point home. Signum did it, but if they are not willing to target the main heroine, then it won't work.
So, we need Nanoha knocked out to drive the point home that they can no longer go tear gas magitech and actually have to start adding casualties to their headcount (or trying to they don't really need to).
vic-vic said:
Again, without intervention of her friends Nanoha would be either dead or crippled for the rest of her life twice... and we're only in the beginning. Let's face it - the seriously powerful infected people don't consider Nanoha as a potent threat and to be frank her record in the Force are far from being stellar: she tryed to hold Thoma back (while he himself tryed his best to hold his power in check and don't hurt Nanoha) and almost got killed without damaging her opponent at all. Well, she participated in catching Kurt and his friend... can we consider this as a major success for Ace of Aces?
Heck, even Signum's rematch ended with her equipment almost of point of breaking apart and Sypha got away with alight (for Huckebein) injures. And it was confirmed that Cypha held back; and she still crack solid metalic shield with her vare hand. Going in melee with someone like that would be a suicide for Nanoha.
What's funny that only Ace that get upgrade with new eqipment it's Fate! She dueled with Cypha on equal footing (for a time at least), stopped DeVile from beheading Nanoha and she even injured Curren (even though it didn't helped their case at all - Curren escaped again and even stole their equipment during the battle)
The thing is, there seems to be little shock.
How do you know the Hucks are serious? They almost kill a forward, a Volkswagenritter and their MOAB armed commander.
If Hayate was jobbed, Nanoha and Fate are next. After all, if all three aces are decommissioned, then the TSAB might need to start bringing out the big guns and prepare for all out war.
Hoki said:
vic-vic said:
Again, without intervention of her friends Nanoha would be either dead or crippled for the rest of her life twice... and we're only in the beginning. Let's face it - the seriously powerful infected people don't consider Nanoha as a potent threat and to be frank her record in the Force are far from being stellar: she tryed to hold Thoma back (while he himself tryed his best to hold his power in check and don't hurt Nanoha) and almost got killed without damaging her opponent at all. Well, she participated in catching Kurt and his friend... can we consider this as a major success for Ace of Aces?
Heck, even Signum's rematch ended with her equipment almost of point of breaking apart and Sypha got away with alight (for Huckebein) injures. And it was confirmed that Cypha held back; and she still crack solid metalic shield with her vare hand. Going in melee with someone like that would be a suicide for Nanoha.
What's funny that only Ace that get upgrade with new eqipment it's Fate! She dueled with Cypha on equal footing (for a time at least), stopped DeVile from beheading Nanoha and she even injured Curren (even though it didn't helped their case at all - Curren escaped again and even stole their equipment during the battle)
Why does everyone keep forgetting that AEC equipment are simply in their development stages, thus are still not very effective weapons against Eclipse infectees? The reason they are being used in the first place is because the TSAB has a ban on mass weaponry, so they can't just use missiles and stuff against the Hucks or any other Eclipse infectee for that matter. If they introduced villains that also operate on the same magic as the Aces, then the conflict would be resolved in about a chapter or two.
Basically, Force is a giant nerfing of our heroines, so new main character Touma gets a chance to shine, and the new villains get to be a threat, not that he got to shine as much in the first place. Heck, sufficiently powerful magic can scare Eclipse infectees as well. Remember Hayate and Heimdall?
On the other hand, the Eclipse and anything related to it is a logical way to have a conflict without resorting to another power level increase. The problem lies not in the heroes being weaker than the villains, but the villains having powers that the heroes cannot beat with their current arsenal. Veyron openly admitted that the progression of the anti Eclipse suppressants will someday make their healing factor no longer an advantage, and given what happened to Cypha during their rematch, it is safe to assume that the AEC equipment are getting better.
I'm don't want to nerf Nanoha or Fate or SDS6 as a whole, but I feel they aren't taking their opponents seriously if they aren't starting to show desperation, nerves or
uncharacteristic changes in their personality. These show that the characters do not know how to deal with the bad guys and that there are things in this world they can't overcome... Unless they start to think differently and lower themselves to fight evenly.
If Nanoha had to get a power boost, however, I'd prefer an Eclipsefied Nanoha and SDS6 over AEC bullshit.
vic-vic said:
Well, I still remember how Arnage suddenly pulled a second mode of her device and blasted her opponent with a frigging plasma canon. So I think we can expect Eclipse-users to also deploy a much more dangerous weaponry too in future.
And now they know that Special Force have AE-bullets, which mean they WOULDN'T got caught off guard next time. And what will our heroes do if Hucks stop held back and go straight for their lives. Hayate didn't survive because of her endurance or help of her friends, she survived only because Curren didn't want her head on plate.
Thoughm I think Curren get the idea that even if her family frag Hayate Aces and co then TSAB really stop to held back and deploy a really mountain-shattering non-magical ordnance.
That they don't have, I'd wager! ^_^
Hoki said:
vic-vic said:
Well, I still remember how Arnage suddenly pulled a second mode of her device and blasted her opponent with a frigging plasma canon. So I think we can expect Eclipse-users to also deploy a much more dangerous weaponry too in future.
And now they know that Special Force have AE-bullets, which mean they WOULDN'T got caught off guard next time. And what will our heroes do if Hucks stop held back and go straight for their lives. Hayate didn't survive because of her endurance or help of her friends, she survived only because Curren didn't want her head on plate.
Thoughm I think Curren get the idea that even if her family frag Hayate Aces and co then TSAB really stop to held back and deploy a really mountain-shattering non-magical ordnance.
They don't even need to lift the ban on non-magical weapons for that. They have a vault of lost logia at their disposal, not to mentions warships that can be equipped with dimension tearing cannons. Not outright killing Hayate, a high ranking TSAB officer, was the logical course of action, and Curren knew this.
Second, Arnage is one of the few examples of a villain that is too specialized for their own good. She has a lot of guns, rockets, and a plasma cannon, but her fighting style is simply "shoot opponent until they die." Isis can fight her just fine, heck, she nullifies her missiles and gives her a hard time before DeVille interfered. Not very promising, that one. The only Eclipse people who still haven't shown much are Curren, Veyron, Fortis, Stella (seriously her divider is the Esquad, her reacted form is probably a Mecha) and Hades.
Also, the Hucks are too reliant on their powers to actually try a different approach, hence the reason why they are looking for the Seed of Origin. I think they can't actually get more powerful without an external source, so they'd be very careful
not to get caught with the AE-bullets, which would be
very hard to do when faced with tacticians like Teana, Fate, and Nanoha. There's also Hades, whose power is
specifically to nullify other Eclipse infectees.
The dimension tearing cannon that couldn't dent their airship.
For once I'd enjoy the TSAB rescinding those damn limitations and raining Sidewinders on the Hucks.
Akiyoshi said:
Honestly I still can't guess what Hades even wants to do. He looks more like an OP Lex Luthor so far so I doubt his approach would be to declare flat out war on the TSAB, even if he does, by that point we'll probably have AEC-equiped mages in armies AND waves of Raptor units (which honestly I don't like because the idea of heroes weapons being mass produced is unapealing but is the "fresh" idea FORCE sold to me so whatever). If things truly escalate to war I hope Tsuzuki doesn't waste the chance to showoff the old cast leading the charge in a badass army (I'm salivating for the chance to see the Blazing General acting like, well.. like a general) and finally display some of Hayate's informed skills as a recognized strategist.
Hades is bad news for sure but remember this is still a Nanoha story, there will be screams, maybe tears but at the end of the day Tohma and Nanoha will find a way to bring back the smiles.
Presumably kills the protagonist's family, engineers his transformation into an Eclipse Driver and tears those who get in the way a new one. Hmm...
Sounds more like Aizen to me!
Akiyoshi said:
I think we're escalating things out of canon proportions. I don't really see (or want) Tsuzuki going "Fourth Great Shinobi War" in Nanoha of all places. The franchise is far from perfect but usually does a good job avoiding a good portion of annoying shounen cliches or giving good twists to those.
Well, he could always go Vandeinreich
Akiyoshi said:
Yeah I know. After all StrikerS sort of had one during the climax. It's just that I don't want a loping game of...
"Here's my Trump card!
Yeah? Here's mine!
Haha! I was lying, here's my real Trump card!
But in the meantime time I prepared a new one!
So did I!
But there's more!
Same here! "
Rinse and repeat for another 80 chapters. It gets old really fast and Tsuzuki usually have coerced plots so I doubt he wants to go full Bleach giving us an endless armed conflict filled with asspulls. We can guess all we want on possibilities but his usual formula is...
"Heroes are reintroduced
Villains hurt heroes
Heroes step up their game
Villains step up theirs/Big Bad enters the stage.
Climatic battle where both sides give it's all
Final Big Bad confrontation.
Conclusion and epilogue"
Hope he at least sticks to the basics instead of unecessary prolonging things.
Of course all of the above under assumption FORCE will be finished.
EDIT: Teana already started with the right foot by taking down both Kurt and Lolo. At least it makes up a bit for her not getting in time to help Signum.
The only asspull in Bleach was Ichigo's powers. Aizen himself was just stronger than anyone not named Yamamoto Genryuusai and as smart as Urahara.
The only asspull was his bedsheet ghost form...
Also, taking down someone who was speeding in a Caravan is hardly a good thing. Unless Tia wants to become a road cop, this won't do much for her...
Hoki said:
Akiyoshi said:
Yeah I know. After all StrikerS sort of had one during the climax. It's just that I don't want a loping game of...
"Here's my Trump card!
Yeah? Here's mine!
Haha! I was lying, here's my real Trump card!
But in the meantime time I prepared a new one!
So did I!
But there's more!
Same here! "
I imagined a Yu Gi Oh duel with this, and frankly, this is always what happens in that show.
Akiyoshi said:
We can guess all we want on possibilities but his usual formula is...
"Heroes are reintroduced
Villains hurt heroes
Heroes step up their game
Villains step up theirs/Big Bad enters the stage.
Climatic battle where both sides give it's all
Final Big Bad confrontation.
Conclusion and epilogue"
Hope he at least sticks to the basics instead of unecessary prolonging things.
Of course all of the above under assumption FORCE will be finished.
Every author follows a formula in their work. That is part of their style. In Tsuzuki's case, it's the outcome of the final confrontation that varies, namely:
1st season: Precia not fighting and (presumably) kills herself, .
A's: Awesome curbstomping of eldritch abomination
StrikerS: Vivio becomes Nanoha's daughter after being rescued.
I don't expect a Touma x Hades fight because I am expecting a Touma/Lily x Veyron/Rosalia fight. Of course, that fight is secondary to Nanoha x whoever the big bad is.
Speaking of deaths, you know who should die in Force? Verossa, because he's just too forgettable. I like Schach, so she should live.
That's how Yu-Gi-Oh worked most of the time... Also, it's too linear! Where are my towns and world map!
As with offing someone, if someone should die, it's Carim! I swear that woman has had it coming!
Akiyoshi said:
I expect Veyron having his decisive fight with Tohma shortly before the last part of the arc begins then spending some time recovering/reflecting and then coming back to save Tohma's ass from certain death and both fight final boss together. I can smell the delicious rage of Yuri fans already.
Also what do you have against Verossa? The guy is cool, nice, smooth and useful without having to get his hands dirty (also dark hounds from hell are pretty neat). He's basically good guys Sonica. It's lije waging death on Arf just because she doesn't fight anymore.
About deaths I guess it must be someone identifable so it doesn't feel like a cheap sacrifice but excluding the core cast. How about Dieci? I like her but she's kinda disposable yet still a worthy adversary.
Just don't touch Wendi or Tia...
Also, you could also off Cinque and Agito... They're just window dressing anyways...
