Naruto Naruto Petpeeves

[Matdeception]

Newest pet peeve - Naruto's Taijutsu.

We've read it, we've heard it, and we've been given descriptions from Naruto's Taijutsu being so god awful he'd get his ass kicked fighting a civilian to being decent enough to fight off a kitten. I went and dragged out Naruto's grades from the Academy and, well, they confuse the hell out of me.

Taijutsu Naruto got a B - Loses to Kiba and Sasuke, but ties with most everyone else, while beating Sakura and Shikamaru. Of course no one can say for certain how he rates up with the B crowd, but this right here obliterates the absolute horse shit fanon that Naruto is terribad (At least by Academy standards).

Speaking of Academy standards - Why did Naruto fail ninjutsu? He can perform them all (Substituion and Henge, to a horrifying degree with the later if the nose bleeds are any indication). Something seems fishy there. I'll ignore Genjutsu, though I think it's unfair how no one bothers to try and train him in the art because he flunks Bunshin no jutsu. Meh, whatever.

So yeah - Pet peeve? Academy. Cause they're retarded.

 

[Altered Nova]

I figure it's probably cause Konoha has been at peace for a long time, and because Hiruzen didn't actually want Naruto to become a ninja.

If there was a war going on Naruto probably would have been passed anyway, two out of three ain't bad. But Konoha had been at peace for eight years (tensions were high with Kumo after the Hyuuga incident but war was avoided) so they probably had a surplus of ninja in the village. Ninjas are mercenaries so it would be bad if there were too many of them competing for missions and driving down prices, so it would make sense for the academy to raise their standards to lower the number of new ninja entering the workforce. If Naruto had actually been failed and he survived the Chuunin Exam invasion I bet he would have been re-enlisted since Konoha lost half their shinobi as casualties and were desperately low on ninja.

And Hiruzen apparently wanted Naruto to live a normal life as a normal boy, what with his forbidding anyone from telling their kids about Naruto's jinchuuriki status and refusing to train Naruto as a human weapon as most villages do with their jinchuuriki and which Danzou almost certainly petitioned for. Hiruzen probably would have been happy if Naruto had flunked out.

 

[Matdeception]

I figure it's probably cause Konoha has been at peace for a long time, and because Hiruzen didn't actually want Naruto to become a ninja.

If there was a war going on Naruto probably would have been passed anyway, two out of three ain't bad. But Konoha had been at peace for eight years (tensions were high with Kumo after the Hyuuga incident but war was avoided) so they probably had a surplus of ninja in the village. Ninjas are mercenaries so it would be bad if there were too many of them competing for missions and driving down prices, so it would make sense for the academy to raise their standards to lower the number of new ninja entering the workforce. If Naruto had actually been failed and he survived the Chuunin Exam invasion I bet he would have been re-enlisted since Konoha lost half their shinobi as casualties and were desperately low on ninja.

And Hiruzen apparently wanted Naruto to live a normal life as a normal boy, what with his forbidding anyone from telling their kids about Naruto's jinchuuriki status and refusing to train Naruto as a human weapon as most villages do with their jinchuuriki and which Danzou almost certainly petitioned for. Hiruzen probably would have been happy if Naruto had flunked out.

So your saying, despite Naruto being able to perform all the Ninjutsu of the class, he was flunked on purpose? Be it a nefarious reason, or just Sarutobi being a sap and wanting Naruto to flunk out so he can live a normal life? (Which should have been fairly obvious to anyone that it wasn't going to happen by that point)

Shit. No wonder Naruto didn't give two shits about the Academy. Even when he passes, he still gets flunked.

PS: I'm actually talking about grades from the Academy report cards, not the final examination stuff.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Henge no Jutsu isn't a Genjutsu. It's a Supplementary E-rank Ninjutsu.

All Genjutsu (with one known exception,) involve essentially hypnotising a chosen target. If Kakashi had elected to use that Hell Viewing Illusion on Sakura while Naruto was standing right next to her, Naruto would have stood there confused while Sakura freaked out at the illusionary wounded Sasuke that only she could see.

Henge on the other hand, actually disguises the user in reality, so everyone who sees them sees what the user wants them to see (unless they suck at the Jutsu.)

 

[Matdeception]

Also, Henge no Jutsu isn't a Genjutsu. It's a Supplementary E-rank Ninjutsu.

All Genjutsu (with one known exception,) involve essentially hypnotising a chosen target. If Kakashi had elected to use that Hell Viewing Illusion on Sakura while Naruto was standing right next to her, Naruto would have stood there confused while Sakura freaked out at the illusionary wounded Sasuke that only she could see.

Henge on the other hand, actually disguises the user in reality, so everyone who sees them sees what the user wants them to see (unless they suck at the Jutsu.)

I never said Henge was a Genjutsu. I did say he flunked Ninjutsu while being able to do Substituion and Henge, with Henge being really damn good.

He flunked Genjutsu because of Bunshin no jutsu (Yarp).

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Also, Henge no Jutsu isn't a Genjutsu. It's a Supplementary E-rank Ninjutsu.

All Genjutsu (with one known exception,) involve essentially hypnotising a chosen target. If Kakashi had elected to use that Hell Viewing Illusion on Sakura while Naruto was standing right next to her, Naruto would have stood there confused while Sakura freaked out at the illusionary wounded Sasuke that only she could see.

Henge on the other hand, actually disguises the user in reality, so everyone who sees them sees what the user wants them to see (unless they suck at the Jutsu.)

I never said Henge was a Genjutsu. I did say he flunked Ninjutsu while being able to do Substituion and Henge, with Henge being really damn good.

He flunked Genjutsu because of Bunshin no jutsu (Yarp).

...

*headdesks*

Jesus, what's wrong with my reading comprehension today? Anyway, Bunshin no Jutsu is actually a Supplementary E-rank Ninjutsu too. When Sakura used it, she wasn't hypnotising everyone to make them think an illusionary copy of her was running around, she actually created an image visible to the naked eye.

Basically, Bunshin would show up on video cameras.

 

[Matdeception]

Also, Henge no Jutsu isn't a Genjutsu. It's a Supplementary E-rank Ninjutsu.

All Genjutsu (with one known exception,) involve essentially hypnotising a chosen target. If Kakashi had elected to use that Hell Viewing Illusion on Sakura while Naruto was standing right next to her, Naruto would have stood there confused while Sakura freaked out at the illusionary wounded Sasuke that only she could see.

Henge on the other hand, actually disguises the user in reality, so everyone who sees them sees what the user wants them to see (unless they suck at the Jutsu.)

I never said Henge was a Genjutsu. I did say he flunked Ninjutsu while being able to do Substituion and Henge, with Henge being really damn good.

He flunked Genjutsu because of Bunshin no jutsu (Yarp).

...

*headdesks*

Jesus, what's wrong with my reading comprehension today? Anyway, Bunshin no Jutsu is actually a Supplementary E-rank Ninjutsu too. When Sakura used it, she wasn't hypnotising everyone to make them think an illusionary copy of her was running around, she actually created an image visible to the naked eye.

Basically, Bunshin would show up on video cameras.

Makes me wonder how they teach Genjutsu in the academy? Maybe it's all theory work?

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Naruto's Henge was probably NOT that good by Academy standards: he failed to make a good henge of Sarutobi.
Sure, he can churn out a good Sasuke henge and Oiroke, but Henge in Academy is likely supposed to teach Genin to transform in people they are NOT much familiar with, not their Eternal Rivals(TM) or made-up people.

For Genjutsu, yeah, it's likely theory and minor Genjutsu awareness tips

 

[Altered Nova]

I figure it's probably cause Konoha has been at peace for a long time, and because Hiruzen didn't actually want Naruto to become a ninja.

If there was a war going on Naruto probably would have been passed anyway, two out of three ain't bad. But Konoha had been at peace for eight years (tensions were high with Kumo after the Hyuuga incident but war was avoided) so they probably had a surplus of ninja in the village. Ninjas are mercenaries so it would be bad if there were too many of them competing for missions and driving down prices, so it would make sense for the academy to raise their standards to lower the number of new ninja entering the workforce. If Naruto had actually been failed and he survived the Chuunin Exam invasion I bet he would have been re-enlisted since Konoha lost half their shinobi as casualties and were desperately low on ninja.

And Hiruzen apparently wanted Naruto to live a normal life as a normal boy, what with his forbidding anyone from telling their kids about Naruto's jinchuuriki status and refusing to train Naruto as a human weapon as most villages do with their jinchuuriki and which Danzou almost certainly petitioned for. Hiruzen probably would have been happy if Naruto had flunked out.

So your saying, despite Naruto being able to perform all the Ninjutsu of the class, he was flunked on purpose? Be it a nefarious reason, or just Sarutobi being a sap and wanting Naruto to flunk out so he can live a normal life? (Which should have been fairly obvious to anyone that it wasn't going to happen by that point)

Shit. No wonder Naruto didn't give two shits about the Academy. Even when he passes, he still gets flunked.

No no no, he wasn't flunked on purpose. What I was saying is that the academy has higher standards during peace time, which is why Naruto flunks even though he's actually got decent grades and can perform two out of three of the basic academy ninjutsu. He wasn't a failure, but he wasn't good enough.

About Hiruzen, I wasn't saying that Hiruzen sabotaged Naruto's ninja career or anything like that, I just meant that Hiruzen didn't want to force Naruto into the ninja lifestyle. He made Naruto's jinchuuriki status a legally enforced secret and didn't give Naruto any extra elite training as is standard practice for jinchuuriki, so Naruto was on his own in the academy. If he graduated entirely on his own merit then fine, but if he flunked out then Hiruzen would be happy with that too. Basically Hiruzen wanted Naruto to have a real choice with how he would live his life, whether that's as a ninja or as a civilian. A choice which few jinchuuriki ever are allowed to make for themselves.

 

[Amberion]

I figure it's probably cause Konoha has been at peace for a long time, and because Hiruzen didn't actually want Naruto to become a ninja.

If there was a war going on Naruto probably would have been passed anyway, two out of three ain't bad. But Konoha had been at peace for eight years (tensions were high with Kumo after the Hyuuga incident but war was avoided) so they probably had a surplus of ninja in the village. Ninjas are mercenaries so it would be bad if there were too many of them competing for missions and driving down prices, so it would make sense for the academy to raise their standards to lower the number of new ninja entering the workforce. If Naruto had actually been failed and he survived the Chuunin Exam invasion I bet he would have been re-enlisted since Konoha lost half their shinobi as casualties and were desperately low on ninja.

And Hiruzen apparently wanted Naruto to live a normal life as a normal boy, what with his forbidding anyone from telling their kids about Naruto's jinchuuriki status and refusing to train Naruto as a human weapon as most villages do with their jinchuuriki and which Danzou almost certainly petitioned for. Hiruzen probably would have been happy if Naruto had flunked out.

So your saying, despite Naruto being able to perform all the Ninjutsu of the class, he was flunked on purpose? Be it a nefarious reason, or just Sarutobi being a sap and wanting Naruto to flunk out so he can live a normal life? (Which should have been fairly obvious to anyone that it wasn't going to happen by that point)

Shit. No wonder Naruto didn't give two shits about the Academy. Even when he passes, he still gets flunked.

No no no, he wasn't flunked on purpose. What I was saying is that the academy has higher standards during peace time, which is why Naruto flunks even though he's actually got decent grades and can perform two out of three of the basic academy ninjutsu. He wasn't a failure, but he wasn't good enough.

About Hiruzen, I wasn't saying that Hiruzen sabotaged Naruto's ninja career or anything like that, I just meant that Hiruzen didn't want to force Naruto into the ninja lifestyle. He made Naruto's jinchuuriki status a legally enforced secret and didn't give Naruto any extra elite training as is standard practice for jinchuuriki, so Naruto was on his own in the academy. If he graduated entirely on his own merit then fine, but if he flunked out then Hiruzen would be happy with that too. Basically Hiruzen wanted Naruto to have a real choice with how he would live his life, whether that's as a ninja or as a civilian. A choice which few jinchuuriki ever are allowed to make for themselves.

Wasn't his grades filled with F's and a B?

 

[Matdeception]

I figure it's probably cause Konoha has been at peace for a long time, and because Hiruzen didn't actually want Naruto to become a ninja.

If there was a war going on Naruto probably would have been passed anyway, two out of three ain't bad. But Konoha had been at peace for eight years (tensions were high with Kumo after the Hyuuga incident but war was avoided) so they probably had a surplus of ninja in the village. Ninjas are mercenaries so it would be bad if there were too many of them competing for missions and driving down prices, so it would make sense for the academy to raise their standards to lower the number of new ninja entering the workforce. If Naruto had actually been failed and he survived the Chuunin Exam invasion I bet he would have been re-enlisted since Konoha lost half their shinobi as casualties and were desperately low on ninja.

And Hiruzen apparently wanted Naruto to live a normal life as a normal boy, what with his forbidding anyone from telling their kids about Naruto's jinchuuriki status and refusing to train Naruto as a human weapon as most villages do with their jinchuuriki and which Danzou almost certainly petitioned for. Hiruzen probably would have been happy if Naruto had flunked out.

So your saying, despite Naruto being able to perform all the Ninjutsu of the class, he was flunked on purpose? Be it a nefarious reason, or just Sarutobi being a sap and wanting Naruto to flunk out so he can live a normal life? (Which should have been fairly obvious to anyone that it wasn't going to happen by that point)

Shit. No wonder Naruto didn't give two shits about the Academy. Even when he passes, he still gets flunked.

No no no, he wasn't flunked on purpose. What I was saying is that the academy has higher standards during peace time, which is why Naruto flunks even though he's actually got decent grades and can perform two out of three of the basic academy ninjutsu. He wasn't a failure, but he wasn't good enough.

About Hiruzen, I wasn't saying that Hiruzen sabotaged Naruto's ninja career or anything like that, I just meant that Hiruzen didn't want to force Naruto into the ninja lifestyle. He made Naruto's jinchuuriki status a legally enforced secret and didn't give Naruto any extra elite training as is standard practice for jinchuuriki, so Naruto was on his own in the academy. If he graduated entirely on his own merit then fine, but if he flunked out then Hiruzen would be happy with that too. Basically Hiruzen wanted Naruto to have a real choice with how he would live his life, whether that's as a ninja or as a civilian. A choice which few jinchuuriki ever are allowed to make for themselves.

Wasn't his grades filled with F's and a B?

He actually had an A in positivity (I think, anyway)

This whole chain started when I got fed up with the constant 'Oh shit Naruto has shit Taijutsu' I've seen in fanfics. Like, almost all of them, when it's simply not true (At least by that score card). He's no Sasuke, or Kiba, but he certainly isn't bottom of the pack either (That's Sakura and Shikamaru)

The topic spiraled when I noticed he failed Ninjutsu as well, and I was all like 'Wut? He can do Substitution and Henge...' but then it was pointed out that Bunshin no Jutsu is actually a ninjutsu. Also a bit about Henge that I can't really accept into my headcanon, but I'm too tired to explain my stance on that specifically.

Anyway, yarp.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Given how everybody thought Kiba was going to annihilate Naruto at the Chunin Exam, I'd guess Naruto was likely scratching the bottom of the B.
Him being graded B only because he outlasted the other C grade students makes sense

 

[beorn91]

I figure it's probably cause Konoha has been at peace for a long time, and because Hiruzen didn't actually want Naruto to become a ninja.

If there was a war going on Naruto probably would have been passed anyway, two out of three ain't bad. But Konoha had been at peace for eight years (tensions were high with Kumo after the Hyuuga incident but war was avoided) so they probably had a surplus of ninja in the village. Ninjas are mercenaries so it would be bad if there were too many of them competing for missions and driving down prices, so it would make sense for the academy to raise their standards to lower the number of new ninja entering the workforce. If Naruto had actually been failed and he survived the Chuunin Exam invasion I bet he would have been re-enlisted since Konoha lost half their shinobi as casualties and were desperately low on ninja.

And Hiruzen apparently wanted Naruto to live a normal life as a normal boy, what with his forbidding anyone from telling their kids about Naruto's jinchuuriki status and refusing to train Naruto as a human weapon as most villages do with their jinchuuriki and which Danzou almost certainly petitioned for. Hiruzen probably would have been happy if Naruto had flunked out.

So your saying, despite Naruto being able to perform all the Ninjutsu of the class, he was flunked on purpose? Be it a nefarious reason, or just Sarutobi being a sap and wanting Naruto to flunk out so he can live a normal life? (Which should have been fairly obvious to anyone that it wasn't going to happen by that point)

Shit. No wonder Naruto didn't give two shits about the Academy. Even when he passes, he still gets flunked.

No no no, he wasn't flunked on purpose. What I was saying is that the academy has higher standards during peace time, which is why Naruto flunks even though he's actually got decent grades and can perform two out of three of the basic academy ninjutsu. He wasn't a failure, but he wasn't good enough.

About Hiruzen, I wasn't saying that Hiruzen sabotaged Naruto's ninja career or anything like that, I just meant that Hiruzen didn't want to force Naruto into the ninja lifestyle. He made Naruto's jinchuuriki status a legally enforced secret and didn't give Naruto any extra elite training as is standard practice for jinchuuriki, so Naruto was on his own in the academy. If he graduated entirely on his own merit then fine, but if he flunked out then Hiruzen would be happy with that too. Basically Hiruzen wanted Naruto to have a real choice with how he would live his life, whether that's as a ninja or as a civilian. A choice which few jinchuuriki ever are allowed to make for themselves.

Except that even if the villagers didn't beat up Naruto, etc... They didn't their best to not aknowledge his existence, which is the main reason he began his pranks, and to stay as far way from him that possible, until the chunin exams.
This would be almost impossible for him to find a job as a civilian while the civilians tried to interact the less possible with him.
So basically, this was ninja or working at Ichiraku.

 

[Altered Nova]

About Hiruzen, I wasn't saying that Hiruzen sabotaged Naruto's ninja career or anything like that, I just meant that Hiruzen didn't want to force Naruto into the ninja lifestyle. He made Naruto's jinchuuriki status a legally enforced secret and didn't give Naruto any extra elite training as is standard practice for jinchuuriki, so Naruto was on his own in the academy. If he graduated entirely on his own merit then fine, but if he flunked out then Hiruzen would be happy with that too. Basically Hiruzen wanted Naruto to have a real choice with how he would live his life, whether that's as a ninja or as a civilian. A choice which few jinchuuriki ever are allowed to make for themselves.

Except that even if the villagers didn't beat up Naruto, etc... They didn't their best to not aknowledge his existence, which is the main reason he began his pranks, and to stay as far way from him that possible, until the chunin exams.
This would be almost impossible for him to find a job as a civilian while the civilians tried to interact the less possible with him.
So basically, this was ninja or working at Ichiraku.

Yeah I agree that Hiruzen was too naive and idealistic to think the villagers would ever treat Naruto fairly after some of his ninja broke the law and leaked Naruto's jinchuuriki status to the general populace. But wanting Naruto to have a normal life (or at least the real option to choose to life one) is the only motivation that explains why Hiruzen didn't adopt him and assign him Ebisu as a personal ninja tutor.

 

[AJ_Katon]

I figure it's probably cause Konoha has been at peace for a long time, and because Hiruzen didn't actually want Naruto to become a ninja.

If there was a war going on Naruto probably would have been passed anyway, two out of three ain't bad. But Konoha had been at peace for eight years (tensions were high with Kumo after the Hyuuga incident but war was avoided) so they probably had a surplus of ninja in the village. Ninjas are mercenaries so it would be bad if there were too many of them competing for missions and driving down prices, so it would make sense for the academy to raise their standards to lower the number of new ninja entering the workforce. If Naruto had actually been failed and he survived the Chuunin Exam invasion I bet he would have been re-enlisted since Konoha lost half their shinobi as casualties and were desperately low on ninja.

And Hiruzen apparently wanted Naruto to live a normal life as a normal boy, what with his forbidding anyone from telling their kids about Naruto's jinchuuriki status and refusing to train Naruto as a human weapon as most villages do with their jinchuuriki and which Danzou almost certainly petitioned for. Hiruzen probably would have been happy if Naruto had flunked out.

So your saying, despite Naruto being able to perform all the Ninjutsu of the class, he was flunked on purpose? Be it a nefarious reason, or just Sarutobi being a sap and wanting Naruto to flunk out so he can live a normal life? (Which should have been fairly obvious to anyone that it wasn't going to happen by that point)

Shit. No wonder Naruto didn't give two shits about the Academy. Even when he passes, he still gets flunked.

No no no, he wasn't flunked on purpose. What I was saying is that the academy has higher standards during peace time, which is why Naruto flunks even though he's actually got decent grades and can perform two out of three of the basic academy ninjutsu. He wasn't a failure, but he wasn't good enough.

About Hiruzen, I wasn't saying that Hiruzen sabotaged Naruto's ninja career or anything like that, I just meant that Hiruzen didn't want to force Naruto into the ninja lifestyle. He made Naruto's jinchuuriki status a legally enforced secret and didn't give Naruto any extra elite training as is standard practice for jinchuuriki, so Naruto was on his own in the academy. If he graduated entirely on his own merit then fine, but if he flunked out then Hiruzen would be happy with that too. Basically Hiruzen wanted Naruto to have a real choice with how he would live his life, whether that's as a ninja or as a civilian. A choice which few jinchuuriki ever are allowed to make for themselves.

But...doesn't the fact that Lee still managed to become a ninja point to either favoritism or some really messed up standards?

Lee may be mu favorite but still...

 

[Matdeception]

Given how everybody thought Kiba was going to annihilate Naruto at the Chunin Exam, I'd guess Naruto was likely scratching the bottom of the B.
Him being graded B only because he outlasted the other C grade students makes sense

Now your grasping for straws/trying to bend the evidence

Did everyone think Kiba would wreck Naruto? Yes, but I ask you who and why? Kurenai? Fuck all does she know about Naruto except he was listed as dead-last in his class and is the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki? Face it folks, preconceptions colors everyones view point, and the Jounin sensei's are no exception. She knew Kiba had one of the highest scores for Taijutsu, which was Naruto's best score in the academy, so she certainly had reason to believe Kiba would win. And he would have too, except for el grande fart.

Who else? I honestly can't think of anyone who gave enough of a shit to even comment on Naruto's skill in that instance. (Maybe Hinata... gawd, my crippling laziness is stopping me from just bringing up the chapters and re-reading em).

Even in Ninjutsu some one like Kurenai would have suspected Kiba to be better - Clan abilities, and yet another field Naruto absolutely flunked. Seriously, the whole damn series was pretty much set up so Naruto (Viewed as the weakest little bastard ever) could trump Mr Bad-ass-Wiggums while everyone stares in awe. Fuck Kishimoto and keeping Naruto comically stupid.

As for being graded B because he can outlast the C ones. Again, a reasonable assertion, but no real evidence one way or another. It's just as reasonable he wrecked the shit out of the 'B' graders only to meet this zomg huge aweful gap between B and A (Between Kiba and Sasuke). End of the day, Taijutsu is Kiba's bread and butter, and Sasuke is crazy talented/motivated/has clan training to fall back on (Be it scrolls or his memories, whatever).

Yarp

 

[nixofcyzerra]

To be fair, I don't think anyone but Hiruzen, Iruka and Kakashi knew that Naruto summoned a ton of clones and beat up Mizuki to pass. Of course, I don't remember members of Naruto's class or their Jounin-sensei having a strong reaction to seeing Naruto using Kage Bunshin, so who knows? Maybe Kurenai did know that Naruto took out Mizuki the night of the graduation test but still thought Kiba could beat him, though I personally doubt it.

Also, even if Kiba and Naruto had similar scores in their Taijutsu scores, I doubt that Kiba used his Shikyaku no Jutsu during any spars during his time at the academy, and considering that the Four Legs Technique ups an Inuzuka's physical strength, speed, agility and endurance, even before you take into account Akamaru, the Military Rations Pill, the Beast Human Clone and the Fang Passing Fang, I don't think that anyone assuming that Kiba had the edge was particularly stupid.

After all, if Kiba was equal to Naruto in Taijutsu during their time at the Academy even when he wasn't using any of his Ninjutsu or Ninja Tools to augment his Taijutsu, Naruto would have to have shown (and of course did in fact show) some drastic improvement to equal Kiba going all out.

 

[Matdeception]

To be fair, I don't think anyone but Hiruzen, Iruka and Kakashi knew that Naruto summoned a ton of clones and beat up Mizuki to pass. Of course, I don't remember members of Naruto's class or their Jounin-sensei having a strong reaction to seeing Naruto using Kage Bunshin, so who knows? Maybe Kurenai did know that Naruto took out Mizuki the night of the graduation test but still thought Kiba could beat him, though I personally doubt it.

Also, even if Kiba and Naruto had similar scores in their Taijutsu scores, I doubt that Kiba used his Shikyaku no Jutsu during any spars during his time at the academy, and considering that the Four Legs Technique ups an Inuzuka's physical strength, speed, agility and endurance, even before you take into account Akamaru, the Military Rations Pill, the Beast Human Clone and the Fang Passing Fang, I don't think that anyone assuming that Kiba had the edge was particularly stupid.

After all, if Kiba was equal to Naruto in Taijutsu during their time at the Academy even when he wasn't using any of his Ninjutsu or Ninja Tools to augment his Taijutsu, Naruto would have to have shown (and of course did in fact show) some drastic improvement to equal Kiba going all out.

Kiba actually had top scores in Taijutsu (At least so far as an A is concerned to Naruto's B in taijutsu)

 

[nixofcyzerra]

Huh. Well, then those who bet on Kiba are even less stupid, if six months prior he was notably better than Naruto at Taijutsu even without all his Taijutsu-augmenting Ninjutsu/Ninja Tools.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Both Team 8 and Team 10 thought Naruto was going to get his shit wrecked.
They, of course, were basing their opinion on the last they saw of Naruto's ability: the Academy.
They weren't aware he got such a GIGANTIC(and absolutely ridiculous) improvement: and if we can believe the Genin wouldn't think much of him regardless, the Jonin should at least suppose he could have improved as much as the average of their own students- you know Jonin are _ELITE_ Ninja with underneath the underneath and all?
In short, they were, at best, thinking Naruto's ability couldn't have improved so much(COMPARED TO KIBA'S) that he could put a good enough fight.

Of course, they weren't specifically thinking about a pure taijutsu fight. But given nobody ever commented on Naruto's taijutsu being even just "good enough"(compared to his everything else being bad), it's unlikely he ever ranked higher than the lower half of the B-grade: he was Dead Last, anything higher than the average would have been noted.
A logical conclusion is that B-grade in taijutsu is the average(which, really, makes sense), and he wasn't really high-placed in said average grading rank.
I mean, everybody was surprised Naruto wasn't down after Kiba's FIRST attack, Quadruped Technique or not.

 

[Matdeception]

Both Team 8 and Team 10 thought Naruto was going to get his shit wrecked.
They, of course, were basing their opinion on the last they saw of Naruto's ability: the Academy.
They weren't aware he got such a GIGANTIC(and absolutely ridiculous) improvement: and if we can believe the Genin wouldn't think much of him regardless, the Jonin should at least suppose he could have improved as much as the average of their own students- you know Jonin are _ELITE_ Ninja with underneath the underneath and all?
In short, they were, at best, thinking Naruto's ability couldn't have improved so much(COMPARED TO KIBA'S) that he could put a good enough fight.

Of course, they weren't specifically thinking about a pure taijutsu fight. But given nobody ever commented on Naruto's taijutsu being even just "good enough"(compared to his everything else being bad), it's unlikely he ever ranked higher than the lower half of the B-grade: he was Dead Last, anything higher than the average would have been noted.
A logical conclusion is that B-grade in taijutsu is the average(which, really, makes sense), and he wasn't really high-placed in said average grading rank.
I mean, everybody was surprised Naruto wasn't down after Kiba's FIRST attack, Quadruped Technique or not.

You're assuming dead-last means 'Dead last in everything'. Shit, you can go to school, get a god damn A+ in a class, but flunk everything else and get a bottomed out GPA. That GPA, despite the A you got in baking cookies, will still net you a 'dead last position' in comparison to anyone else who graduated.

You're logical assumptions are rather... well... narrow minded. Look at Lee for example - Dead Last even after Gai started tutoring him prior to him becoming a Genin (Least I vaguely remember him doing so) and he, in Taijutsu, probably would have wrecked everyone but Neji when he became Genin. This is just assuming pure skill, as even if he had/was using weights he wouldn't have taken them off.

Still, he was dead last. Team 10 thought Naruto would lose against Kiba? Rightfully so - As Kiba was already better at Taijutsu then Naruto prior to leaving the Academy, and didn't apparently flunk everything else like Naruto did. None of them really had any interaction with Team 7 until the Chuunin exams, so of course they wouldn't be aware of crap.

Anyway, the point I'm making is Naruto being considered the greatest damn failure of Taijutsu is not a gospel truth. It isn't. at all. You could swing it and say it is, using your logically thought out (He has terrible Taijutsu, but good staying power that makes up for it) reasoning for such, but at the same token you can also follow the logic that he isn't terrible at Taijutsu, he just can't compare to the ferociously taijutsu focused Inuzuka clan, or the prodigy that is Sasuke.

I'd give Naruto the absolute win against everyone from the Academy(In Taijutsu only) except for Kiba or Sasuke, while he is in the Academy even. If we're going with the supposition no clan techniques were being used, then I can't think of anyone but those two giving Naruto problems. No Akamichi super strength, no Kikaichu sneaking around devouring chakra, none of that tripe.

I suppose in the end it just comes down to perspective. Agree to disagree and all that.

 

[NMR-3]

If Hinata really went for the kill (which, considering we're talking academy Hinata and it's Naruto, is basically impossible), I think she could manage to eke out a win. She probably would take some serious blows, though, so it wouldn't be pretty.

 

[Matdeception]

If Hinata really went for the kill (which, considering we're talking academy Hinata and it's Naruto, is basically impossible), I think she could manage to eke out a win. She probably would take some serious blows, though, so it wouldn't be pretty.

Agreed. I didn't stipulate I was taking mentality into consideration.

 

[AJ_Katon]

Both Team 8 and Team 10 thought Naruto was going to get his shit wrecked.
They, of course, were basing their opinion on the last they saw of Naruto's ability: the Academy.
They weren't aware he got such a GIGANTIC(and absolutely ridiculous) improvement: and if we can believe the Genin wouldn't think much of him regardless, the Jonin should at least suppose he could have improved as much as the average of their own students- you know Jonin are _ELITE_ Ninja with underneath the underneath and all?
In short, they were, at best, thinking Naruto's ability couldn't have improved so much(COMPARED TO KIBA'S) that he could put a good enough fight.

Of course, they weren't specifically thinking about a pure taijutsu fight. But given nobody ever commented on Naruto's taijutsu being even just "good enough"(compared to his everything else being bad), it's unlikely he ever ranked higher than the lower half of the B-grade: he was Dead Last, anything higher than the average would have been noted.
A logical conclusion is that B-grade in taijutsu is the average(which, really, makes sense), and he wasn't really high-placed in said average grading rank.
I mean, everybody was surprised Naruto wasn't down after Kiba's FIRST attack, Quadruped Technique or not.

It also sounds like they wrote Naruto off as a lost cause or they had little confidence in Kakashi's teaching skill.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

Even super-genius Shikamaru thought, based on his Academy performances, Naruto was a complete loser.
I'm not saying he was the worst in every single subject, but that he was likely in the lower ranking grades in most subjects while not having any really good grade.

Lee wasn't tutored by Guy until he made Genin, though. And Naruto isn't the worst taijutsu user ever: Sakura was worst than him, Shikamaru too(though him most likely because it was too troublesome to actually do some decent fighting)


Given how shitty Naruto's Academy reputation as ninja is(NOBODY thinks him any good. Not even Hinata!), if his taijutsu was above average(even just above the average of the B-grade) it would have been said.
Given the lack of emphasis on Naruto having any standing-out ability, even compared to his generally shitty grades, makes sense even the one subject he's not completely shitty he's still under the average.
I'm not saying everybody would clean the floor with him, but most Taijutsu B-graded Academy students would defeat Academy Student Naruto