Naruto Naruto Petpeeves

[nixofcyzerra]

As I mentioned here, if a Kunoichi were to attempt to seduce a high-level ninja, the signs of her physical conditioning would be near-impossible to disguise.

Calluses, muscle tone, scars, the way they've been trained to move, their god-damn centre of gravity, it would be impossible to erase all of these things.

You would basically have to train someone who was a seductionist first, and a Shinobi a distant second.

Also we do know the villages still practice non-magical espionage. Take for example, Kabuto. Dude is the greatest secret agent who ever spied it up in the ninja world. And so far we know, he had no leet mind-reading, genjutsu or x-ray vision skills. He's just a master of good-old-fashioned acting, social engineering and information gathering. A seduction expert as skilled as Kabuto would be an amazing asset for a ninja village.

...New headcanon for Jiraiya?

 

[Jeopardizer]

Other pet peeves (I'm on a roll, I will make this thread live by my lonesome for a some time):

-'needless to say', 'to say the least' and other similar sayings in the narration. That's fine when it's a character speaking, but not the narrator. I guess exceptions can be made when the narrator is actually a character, but when it's a purely storytelling omniscient one it's jarring.

-anachronisms/ana-space-isms (?)/ana-vers-sims (?): Naruto doesn't have a pope or Jesus so don't use them in comparaison. Same thing for being as rich as Croesus, french kissing, korean barbecue and western-style clothes. Also Kumo doesn't have african-americans.

-CRA. Clan. Restoration. Act. That bad cliché/piece of shitty fanon make the list when other such thing do not because it is particularly stupid. Twice as bad if the story also has a council choke full of clan heads.

 

[H-Man]

I'd correct you on it being chock full, but considering how these stories are all about chicken choking, I'll let it pass.

 

[Ashaman]

Because the person who gets seduced and reveals secrets to the enemy will take most of the blame.

Anyone's response to an espianoge leak would most likely be punish the leaker, assassinate or detain the leakee.

What is the spying village going to do, demand reparations over a spy?

Nope, would never stand, they would be laughed at in the political world.

 

[He-who-voted-for-Kodos]

Except that that literal situation happened, only worse, because the spy in question was actually a kidnapper, who was killed while carrying the kidnappee out of her house. Then his village demanded his killer's corpse, the killer's twin brother volunteered, and that's how Neji became an asshole until Naruto beat him.

 

[TC_Hazard]

Except that that literal situation happened, only worse, because the spy in question was actually a kidnapper, who was killed while carrying the kidnappee out of her house. Then his village demanded his killer's corpse, the killer's twin brother volunteered, and that's how Neji became an asshole until Naruto beat him.

I was about to say that but yeah.

It's circumstantial I guess.

The one who doesn't want war the most is going to be the one to cave in first.

Like a game of chicken. Only with more bullshit because politics.

Seriously, you got to admire how much bullshit the Raikage managed to pile up when he made that demand.

 

[Altered Nova]

As I mentioned here, if a Kunoichi were to attempt to seduce a high-level ninja, the signs of her physical conditioning would be near-impossible to disguise.

Calluses, muscle tone, scars, the way they've been trained to move, their god-damn centre of gravity, it would be impossible to erase all of these things.

You would basically have to train someone who was a seductionist first, and a Shinobi a distant second.

Or the seductionist could just use henge to hide their physical conditioning and train to move like a civilian. Or they could pretend to be a ninja from the same village as their target, the same way Kabuto did when he infiltrated all those foreign ninja villages on Danzou's orders.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Kabuto seduced a few kunoichi during those missions to gather more info, he was fairly charismatic before he transformed himself into Orochimaru v2.0.

Also we do know the villages still practice non-magical espionage. Take for example, Kabuto. Dude is the greatest secret agent who ever spied it up in the ninja world. And so far we know, he had no leet mind-reading, genjutsu or x-ray vision skills. He's just a master of good-old-fashioned acting, social engineering and information gathering. A seduction expert as skilled as Kabuto would be an amazing asset for a ninja village.

...New headcanon for Jiraiya?

Eh, Jiraiya is more like a creepy old pervert than a suave ladies man. Sure he claims to be amazing at getting the ladies, but the only times we've actually seen him doing so was when he was in a brothel (he spent all of Naruto's money there) and when Itachi mind controlled a woman to flirt with him. Also his charms certainly haven't worked on Tsunade, and he spies on women bathing which is mega gross. I have a hard time imagining him as a successful seductionist.

Except that that literal situation happened, only worse, because the spy in question was actually a kidnapper, who was killed while carrying the kidnappee out of her house. Then his village demanded his killer's corpse, the killer's twin brother volunteered, and that's how Neji became an asshole until Naruto beat him.

I'd like to point out that we don't actually know how that whole Hyuuga incident worked out for Kumo afterwards. Considering that every other village seemed to dislike them and considered them ruthless, vindictive warmongers, it's likely that their brazen lies and demands for reparations backfired and had a significant political cost for them.

 

[beorn91]

As I mentioned here, if a Kunoichi were to attempt to seduce a high-level ninja, the signs of her physical conditioning would be near-impossible to disguise.

Calluses, muscle tone, scars, the way they've been trained to move, their god-damn centre of gravity, it would be impossible to erase all of these things.

You would basically have to train someone who was a seductionist first, and a Shinobi a distant second.

Or the seductionist could just use henge to hide their physical conditioning and train to move like a civilian. Or they could pretend to be a ninja from the same village as their target, the same way Kabuto did when he infiltrated all those foreign ninja villages on Danzou's orders.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Kabuto seduced a few kunoichi during those missions to gather more info, he was fairly charismatic before he transformed himself into Orochimaru v2.0.

Also we do know the villages still practice non-magical espionage. Take for example, Kabuto. Dude is the greatest secret agent who ever spied it up in the ninja world. And so far we know, he had no leet mind-reading, genjutsu or x-ray vision skills. He's just a master of good-old-fashioned acting, social engineering and information gathering. A seduction expert as skilled as Kabuto would be an amazing asset for a ninja village.

...New headcanon for Jiraiya?

Eh, Jiraiya is more like a creepy old pervert than a suave ladies man. Sure he claims to be amazing at getting the ladies, but the only times we've actually seen him doing so was when he was in a brothel (he spent all of Naruto's money there) and when Itachi mind controlled a woman to flirt with him. Also his charms certainly haven't worked on Tsunade, and he spies on women bathing which is mega gross. I have a hard time imagining him as a successful seductionist.

[

Maybe some of Jiraya's informants are whores?

 

[Matdeception]

Hmm. I'm going to throw my bone in with the 'CRA' pet peeve, at least with how it tends to be used. I personally see the whole CRA fanon thing as idiotic, enforced breeding and all that bull shit.

Now if the CRA was an incentive program, like funds or land granted per child born, then that would make a lot more sense. Oh sure, you can even say it's a free pass to screw around and have children with multiple women, as long as it's clear those children are part of *Insert Wutever Clan here* and the mothers are both financially provided for, and inducted as honorary members into the clan due to their 'efforts' in repopulating.

Meh, incentive program works for me.

 

[KurokamiDG]

Hmm. I'm going to throw my bone in with the 'CRA' pet peeve, at least with how it tends to be used. I personally see the whole CRA fanon thing as idiotic, enforced breeding and all that bull shit.

Now if the CRA was an incentive program, like funds or land granted per child born, then that would make a lot more sense. Oh sure, you can even say it's a free pass to screw around and have children with multiple women, as long as it's clear those children are part of *Insert Wutever Clan here* and the mothers are both financially provided for, and inducted as honorary members into the clan due to their 'efforts' in repopulating.

Meh, incentive program works for me.

I would honestly like to see a fic based on the politics of such a program in the Narutoverse, if only to see how it would be executed.

I hate the CRA as much as the next guy, but if the idea is expanded upon more than just using it as an excuse for Naruto to fuck all the things I could read a fic like that.

Of course, there would have to be a shit ton of character development and interactions from those who are involved in this program, and seeing how the relationships would build from it would be an interesting aspect of it.

 

[goldenarms]

Wow, people trying to justify the possible need for Narutoverse kunoichi to be prepared to turn tricks for intel. I'm seriously like, "Why do people insist on this becoming a thing?" While, sure, you could use seduction to get info without "getting caught," it wouldn't be nearly as fast, or reliable, as extracting that same nugget of intel through other means. Also, seduction can backfire and be used against the seducer and/or the village -- for example, she obtains poisoned intel that ends up being a trap that leaves hundreds dead, or she gets counter-seduced/mind-broken and flipped back on her home village, reporting everything they're doing to the original target.

Even with success, seduction doesn't merit automatic info dump on the first fuck. If a kage would blab about anything after busting one nut, it's either a trap or you're getting something worthless. I do not see any supreme ninja leader letting anything slip past his lips that aren't lies cloaked in honey because that's what ninja do. And if he did, he's an awfully shitty-ass leader that should have never been made a ninja, let alone lead them. In other words, he has to have the Idiot Ball surgically implanted into him for that to work. More than likely, it's going to take months of hard sweat to glean even a useful nugget, and by then, its shelf life may have already expired.

I can barely think of any example of a mission where regular ninja methods wouldn't prove to be superior as opposed to seduction. Need to steal some important documents inside a lord's house? Who's less visible, his security detail or the lord's whore? Want him to talk over wine? Will flirting win out, on should you just spike his drink with a little ninja truth serum? Need to assassinate a mark in private? Depending on the tightness of security and his sexual appetite, this might be a more reasonable need for it, but more than likely it's way faster and easier to Transform into his favorite hooker and knife through the spine than it would be for a kunoichi to earn her way into his private circle and do the deed.

As pointed out by jakkuzaripper, this isn't Ninja Scroll or Basilisk -- we're talking about a universe where chakra can do pretty much whatever the mind can conceive, from spitting fire to to time-travelling like the Doctor. We had a guy that literally ripped out his own spine and used it as a whip. I still have no idea how the fuck is that possible, but they can do that kind of shit. They can force people to cough up deep, dark secrets with a literal twitch of their finger. They teach their 8 year olds how to fuck science in the ass with Transformation. Who cares if they have Ninja CSI out there -- by the time they're on the case, it's way too late in most cases; the damage is done, and the wielder is long gone (if he doesn't have an idiot ball surgically implanted into him, that is...).

Now, if said kunoichi was freelancing work, then it becomes a whole nother story. Due to lack of options, if she needs to break into someplace and steal some papers, then the power of her pussy is far more likely to come into play somewhere, depending on how much and what kind of training and skills she has under her belt. Of course, this might make her more of a Catwoman character, but whatever. This would be one situation that one could get away with kunoichi=prostitute and not make me eye-roll off the bed because of the presence of so many better options that makes fucking for tips obsolete at best.

Hmm. I'm going to throw my bone in with the 'CRA' pet peeve, at least with how it tends to be used. I personally see the whole CRA fanon thing as idiotic, enforced breeding and all that bull shit.

Now if the CRA was an incentive program, like funds or land granted per child born, then that would make a lot more sense. Oh sure, you can even say it's a free pass to screw around and have children with multiple women, as long as it's clear those children are part of *Insert Wutever Clan here* and the mothers are both financially provided for, and inducted as honorary members into the clan due to their 'efforts' in repopulating.

Meh, incentive program works for me.

I would honestly like to see a fic based on the politics of such a program in the Narutoverse, if only to see how it would be executed.

Nope. We don't need welfare ninjas... nope.

 

[13ry4n]

from spitting fire to to time-travelling like the Doctor.

This actually leads me to a big pet peeve of mine, time travel jutsu just lying about. Especially if it's a seal based technique.

Which leads me to another big problem looting the village hidden in the whirlpools (or whatever it's called) for seals or knowledge or whatever. By the time Naruto canon takes place the Village has been probably stripped clean.

 

[Altered Nova]

I fully agree that most espionage is still going to use ninja magic, because yes it is quicker and more efficient, my point was simply that that doesn't mean that seduction was completely obsolete. There will still be times when seduction can be useful. For one thing, seduction can be used to manipulate people, it's not just for getting intel. The target might be too powerful or well guarded to be able to mindrape them and get away (or at all). Or the target might technically be an ally to your village so you can't risk and/or don't want to mindrape them.

The ninja magic can totally backfire too, so I'm not sure why you bring that up as a point against seduction. Remember when Sasori mind-controlled Kabuto and Orochimaru removed it so Kabuto could become a double agent against Akatsuki? Yeah, ninja magic ain't fool proof dude.

And it's not like it's an either or situation. I'm sure that transformations and low-level genjutsu are commonly used to aid in seduction attempts.

Also what is with your talking like only kunoichi can use seduction? Every pronoun in that rant is feminine. There are plenty of powerful high ranking female ninja for charming male ninja to seduce, hell we've seen a female kage who is extremely bitter about being single and dreams of finding a husband. I've also already pointed out that Kabuto may well have used seduction as a tactic during his many years of infiltrating enemy villages for Root, since he's a master actor, quite charismatic, and he doesn't really know any jutsu that would be particularly amazing for espionage.

 

[goldenarms]

I fully agree that most espionage is still going to use ninja magic, because yes it is quicker and more efficient, my point was simply that that doesn't mean that seduction was completely obsolete. There will still be times when seduction can be useful. The target might be too powerful or well guarded to be able to mindrape them and get away (or at all), or they might technically be an ally to your village so you can't risk and/or don't want to mindrape them.

A target too powerful for mindraping is not likely to be a good target for seduction, either, unless he's colossally moronic. As for too-well guarded, if he has that much protection, seduction isn't going to even be in the cards unless one can conceivably reach said target. And seduction takes time, which may be something one doesn't have, plus you can't be entirely sure it worked.

The ninja magic can totally backfire too, so I'm not sure why you bring that up as a point against seduction. Remember when Sasori mind-controlled Kabuto and Orochimaru removed it so Kabuto could become a double agent against Akatsuki? Yeah, ninja magic ain't fool proof dude.

Nope, but it's not nearly so easy to counteract ninja magic as it would be to neutralize someone trying to trick you into revealing secret info. And seduction can backfire much more readily due to the fact that it's not compulsory or guaranteed for the seducee to give away secrets. Hell, just keeping your mouth shut is enough, but for the truly devious, misinformation can go a long way to shutting bitches down like fire marshals on a club venue.

And it's not like it's an either or situation. I'm sure that transformations and low-level genjutsu are commonly used to aid in seduction attempts.

While true, it's not as though one needs to be skilled at seduction to use genjutsu to pull info, and it's a lot quicker to teach someone how to do that than it is to train someone in the art of seduction. Handguns vs bows, basically.

Also what is with your talking like only kunoichi can use seduction?

Because every time someone brings up seduction, it's treated as a kunoichi thing which is inextricably linked to male fantasy, much like La Blue Girl and other shows with kunoichi using things like breast milk to behead fuckers. Personally, I'm pretty fucking sick of it being brought up in the Narutoverse like 90% of ninja girls should have gotten dicked down by some grubby political worm in the search of info like that's their only decent function in life.

tl;dr - People that bring up ninja seduction only do so because they want wanking material of their favorite ninja girls.

 

[da_fox2279]

Honestly, while I do enjoy seduction missions as the base of fics if it's written well, for the most part I could only see kunoichi using mild seduction/flirtation techniques for simple missions, when they don't want to bother wasting their chakra / suspect there's a sensor-nin nearby.

 

[beorn91]

About seduction, some fics implied that this was used to try to kill S-rank ninja by exploiting their vices: with best example, Jiraya. For 99,9% ninja trying to kill him in combat is suicide, however he is a massive pervert. Solution? Send a kunoichi to seduce him and kill him in his sleep or poison him.
(Of course Jiraya is too much genre savy to fall into the trap if you aren't the true Tsunade.)

Or if the person you want to stole the genes are too strong , better use seduction. And if they prefer strong spouse, for personal reason or by eugenism, a ninja would work better than a civilian.

This and you can use a set up where if at the Academy you was strong into intelligence gathering, acting, etc... in fact spying but with low level into the combat oriented parts you could be still recruited in Intelligence service to spy and seduce if you were charming enough.

 

[Jeopardizer]

-Some random character (most likely an Uzumaki) dismissing Jiraiya as an amateur unworthy of the title of seal master. Bonus points when that person has never met the pervert or gotten the chance to look at his work.

The guy is probably the foremost authority when it comes to summoning and it's derivatives, can pull up a barrier that puts pretty much every sensors to shame, was the teacher of Minato and got him up to a level where he could make sense of Tobirama scribbles and looked at Amaterasu for 2 seconds before sealing it.

I want to insist on that last one because the Raikage had to cut off his arm because of that shit so it can't be that simple to seal eternal fire otherwise one of the kages or their underlings could have done the job and told the Raikage to stop his tantrum and come here so his arm could be re-attached.

Last time I checked the Nidaime didn't need no Uzumaki to create the proto-FTG so there is a precedent for white haired shinobis affiliated to Konoha to be good with seals without having to ask red-haired übermensch to check on their work.

In fact pretty much everything that has to do with Uzumakis, be it fanon or canon.

 

[Knyght]

the title of seal master

Petpeeve detected.

 

[thecuiy]

Are sealmasters even a thing in canon Naruto?

 

[Knyght]

No, it's a fanon term.

 

[Jeopardizer]

the title of seal master

Petpeeve detected.

Honestly as long as they only say it once or twice and it's used more as a way to describe his talents, like one would say taijutsu prodigy or whatever, rather than some sort of title (yeah, I should have worded that better in the first post) that goes with some sort of silly system (every second fic I click on right now seems to use 10 levels of seal mastery or some shit) I can accept it.

It may make me hover my mouse closer to the red cross but it won't have me wanting to punch a wall.

But yeah, "11th level seal master" piss me off too.

 

[Amberion]

-Some random character (most likely an Uzumaki) dismissing Jiraiya as an amateur unworthy of the title of seal master. Bonus points when that person has never met the pervert or gotten the chance to look at his work.

The guy is probably the foremost authority when it comes to summoning and it's derivatives, can pull up a barrier that puts pretty much every sensors to shame, was the teacher of Minato and got him up to a level where he could make sense of Tobirama scribbles and looked at Amaterasu for 2 seconds before sealing it.

I want to insist on that last one because the Raikage had to cut off his arm because of that shit so it can't be that simple to seal eternal fire otherwise one of the kages or their underlings could have done the job and told the Raikage to stop his tantrum and come here so his arm could be re-attached.

Last time I checked the Nidaime didn't need no Uzumaki to create the proto-FTG so there is a precedent for white haired shinobis affiliated to Konoha to be good with seals without having to ask red-haired übermensch to check on their work.

In fact pretty much everything that has to do with Uzumakis, be it fanon or canon.

For the first.. I find it unlikely that an S-Rank missing nin wouldn't see if someone is combat trained or be able to sense their chakra.

For Minato, didn't Kushina say that she helped Minato learn seals?

As for Tobirama. We don't know how, when or if he made the FTG all by himself. ;p

 

[beorn91]

-Some random character (most likely an Uzumaki) dismissing Jiraiya as an amateur unworthy of the title of seal master. Bonus points when that person has never met the pervert or gotten the chance to look at his work.

The guy is probably the foremost authority when it comes to summoning and it's derivatives, can pull up a barrier that puts pretty much every sensors to shame, was the teacher of Minato and got him up to a level where he could make sense of Tobirama scribbles and looked at Amaterasu for 2 seconds before sealing it.

I want to insist on that last one because the Raikage had to cut off his arm because of that shit so it can't be that simple to seal eternal fire otherwise one of the kages or their underlings could have done the job and told the Raikage to stop his tantrum and come here so his arm could be re-attached.

Last time I checked the Nidaime didn't need no Uzumaki to create the proto-FTG so there is a precedent for white haired shinobis affiliated to Konoha to be good with seals without having to ask red-haired übermensch to check on their work.

In fact pretty much everything that has to do with Uzumakis, be it fanon or canon.

For the first.. I find it unlikely that an S-Rank missing nin wouldn't see if someone is combat trained or be able to sense their chakra.

For Minato, didn't Kushina say that she helped Minato learn seals?

As for Tobirama. We don't know how, when or if he made the FTG all by himself. ;p

Yep, Kushina was his main teacher in fuinjutsu and as the seals he used on Naruto came from the Uzumaki, guess who probably teached them to him?

But Mito under the form of a chakra imprint or else calling Jiraya an amateur? Not shocking given she sealed inside herself Kurama, becoming the first jinchuriki since the Sage of Six Paths and had the Strenght of a Hundred Seal.

 

[goldenarms]

About seduction, some fics implied that this was used to try to kill S-rank ninja by exploiting their vices: with best example, Jiraya. For 99,9% ninja trying to kill him in combat is suicide, however he is a massive pervert. Solution? Send a kunoichi to seduce him and kill him in his sleep or poison him.
(Of course Jiraya is too much genre savy to fall into the trap if you aren't the true Tsunade.)

If the mark is too strong to kill normally, a seduction assassination isn't all that likely to succeed, either on the basis that since ninja of this caliber are likely expecting something like that to happen. In fact, when Itachi sent the hypnotized girl to lure Jiraiya away from Naruto, he was not only not surprised to see that his trap didn't work (Jiraiya knew what happened and had disabled her), he even stated that he thought it wouldn't have worked in the first place.

If the seducer has a special skill or a bloodline that predisposes them to such covert actions (example, think Hidan's Immortality ability, except based on semen), then it's a different ball game. However, average ninja/kunoichi? Not so much.

Or if the person you want to stole the genes are too strong , better use seduction. And if they prefer strong spouse, for personal reason or by eugenism, a ninja would work better than a civilian.

I don't think they really do that, largely because of the unpredictable nature of creating life, not to mention that method is the really bleeping slow way of making Superbabies of DOOM(tm). And that's assuming target's not sterile/fixed. Of course, the more expedient versions are pretty inhumane. Then again, omelets... eggs... you know how it is...

This and you can use a set up where if at the Academy you was strong into intelligence gathering, acting, etc... in fact spying but with low level into the combat oriented parts you could be still recruited in Intelligence service to spy and seduce if you were charming enough.

I think the thing that really bothers me more is that seduction is treated like it's a legitimate field of work, like people can go major in it like English Lit. and, really, that's not how it works. At best, it's just a supplementary course within the entire Spycrafting profession, but when it comes to female ninja, it's treated as though it *must* be happening all the time because, female ninja. They could be omnipotent, omniscient and literally wish anything into existence, and someone's going to be like:

"Hey, you gotta go suck a dick for a .doc."

"B-But, why??"

"Because you're a kunoichi. That's whatcha do!"

"But I have actual God powers. I can just think--"

"Nope. Too hard a target. You gotta suck dick for .doc."

"That makes no sense!"

"I don't make the rules; I just enforce 'em. Dick for .doc, girl; the clock's ticking."

"B-But--!"

"Dick for .doc. Tick-for-tock."

Note: I'm not against sexy times; I just don't want it coming up as though it's gospel where the setting clearly contradict the need for it. There's more than enough worthless shit creeping up in fanfics as it is; we really don't need to invent more issues that don't quite work out the way they're "supposed to."

Last time I checked the Nidaime didn't need no Uzumaki to create the proto-FTG so there is a precedent for white haired shinobis affiliated to Konoha to be good with seals without having to ask red-haired übermensch to check on their work.

To be fair, we know next to nothing about Tobirama's personal life, so maybe he did have a red-haired übermensch of his own checking his work and he don't like to give credit where it's due.

 

[Matdeception]

To be fair, we know next to nothing about Tobirama's personal life, so maybe he did have a red-haired übermensch of his own checking his work and he don't like to give credit where it's due.

He technically did have one - Mito. Sure they weren't married, but she was a convenient on-hand Uzumaki woman known for her sealing that just so happened to be the wife/widow of his foolish older brother. She probably enjoyed his visits while she was sitting around being bored with Kyuubi inside of her.

She died after he did too.