Naruto The Official Fourth Naruto Databook Thread
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The databook stats are essentially a measure of how much of an individual's "potential" in that area has been realised.
Quoted/Paraphrased from one of my old Naruversity posts:
According to knight504's review of the 3rd databook, the Hand Seal stat symbolises one's "knowledge and proficiency in (hand) seals."
So I guess speed and knowledge, but not necessarily the ability to use ninjutsu without them. After all, Naruto could use an A-rank ninjutsu without hand seals, but his hand seal stat still sucked.
Quoted/Paraphrased from one of my old Naruversity posts:
According to knight504's review of the 3rd databook, the Hand Seal stat symbolises one's "knowledge and proficiency in (hand) seals."
So I guess speed and knowledge, but not necessarily the ability to use ninjutsu without them. After all, Naruto could use an A-rank ninjutsu without hand seals, but his hand seal stat still sucked.
The explicit mention of Haku loving birds and plants (though no mention of rabbits), and how he'd rather not be a ninja at all which I think was more implied in the manga. His father killing his mother and attempting to kill him out of fear of their kekkei genkai. I assumed it was some deep-seated hatred against their people rather than him actually being afraid of them. And now I'm sort of imagining that scene as Haku's discovering his kekkei genkai in his father's sight which immediately causes shit to hit the fan with a homicidal overaction. And the reference to Haku's blood forcing his lifestyle is probably metaphorical but a more fanciful intepretation could be those with kekkei genkai being instinctually drawn towards combat.
Picking out some others...Demon Brothers/Ebisu, Yoroi and Kin/Gashir/Snakes.
Picking out some others...Demon Brothers/Ebisu, Yoroi and Kin/Gashir/Snakes.
It's not about being LITERAL.
It's about being CORRECT.
The correct TRANSLATION of THAT piece of writing is "Mist Country". Now, it's likely either a typo or an outdated information.
But IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Translation Notes exist, and they serve perfectly the purpose of informing the reader of such things.
It's 2015 and fan-translation can still be SHIT, as can official translations. It's not an excuse to arbitrary change the meaning of the text without giving an explanation.
Especially because a simple "T/N: in the original text, it's "Mist Country" but it's either a typo or an outdated information, so I did change it" is short and gives the reader _ALL_ the informations a native Japanese speaker would get from reading the original, which is the primary point of any translation.
Also, I don't like the idea of changing it because following this you HAVE to change the profiles of Hashirama and Tobirama stating their personalities(which are basically reversed compared how they appear later in the manga).
It's a matter of consistency. Either you ALWAYS update your translations to the current known canon, or you ALWAYS keep them as they are in the original.
Anything else means your translation is unreliable.
It's about being CORRECT.
The correct TRANSLATION of THAT piece of writing is "Mist Country". Now, it's likely either a typo or an outdated information.
But IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Translation Notes exist, and they serve perfectly the purpose of informing the reader of such things.
It's 2015 and fan-translation can still be SHIT, as can official translations. It's not an excuse to arbitrary change the meaning of the text without giving an explanation.
Especially because a simple "T/N: in the original text, it's "Mist Country" but it's either a typo or an outdated information, so I did change it" is short and gives the reader _ALL_ the informations a native Japanese speaker would get from reading the original, which is the primary point of any translation.
Also, I don't like the idea of changing it because following this you HAVE to change the profiles of Hashirama and Tobirama stating their personalities(which are basically reversed compared how they appear later in the manga).
It's a matter of consistency. Either you ALWAYS update your translations to the current known canon, or you ALWAYS keep them as they are in the original.
Anything else means your translation is unreliable.
Obviously. So?
Now, I'm obviously trusting the previous translation.
But I was using a well known example of outdated information.
If you ever get to the Hokages and find the original text does, in fact, states their personalities as reversed compared to their in-story appearances, by following the same logic Mist Country->Water Country then you HAVE to switch their personality descriptions.
Anything else and you wouldn't be consistent with your own translation, which makes it unreliable.
Yes, and I'm telling you "translating" doesn't mean "change shit because _I_ think it makes no sense", especially when simple notes resolve any and every problem like this.
Now, I'm obviously trusting the previous translation.
But I was using a well known example of outdated information.
If you ever get to the Hokages and find the original text does, in fact, states their personalities as reversed compared to their in-story appearances, by following the same logic Mist Country->Water Country then you HAVE to switch their personality descriptions.
Anything else and you wouldn't be consistent with your own translation, which makes it unreliable.
Yes, and I'm telling you "translating" doesn't mean "change shit because _I_ think it makes no sense", especially when simple notes resolve any and every problem like this.
...they have personalities in the first databook?
All I see here is "First Hokage was an excellent ninja who got a bunch of ninja together in a forest to found the Hidden Leaf Village and died shortly after that due to living in a time of war" and "Second Hokage was the younger brother, inherited his will, and created the Ninja Academy and the village's organizational structures, then World War Ninja started and he died wishing for the end of wars and for the village to prosper".
That's... not that much personality. No offense.
All I see here is "First Hokage was an excellent ninja who got a bunch of ninja together in a forest to found the Hidden Leaf Village and died shortly after that due to living in a time of war" and "Second Hokage was the younger brother, inherited his will, and created the Ninja Academy and the village's organizational structures, then World War Ninja started and he died wishing for the end of wars and for the village to prosper".
That's... not that much personality. No offense.
It's probably in reference to the second databook where Tobirama's entry says "In contrast to his calm older brother, his nature is to push forward towards his objective with passion and enthusiasm" which somehat contradicts how they are portrayed later in the story.
Now about we drop this freaking unproductive argument, eh? It's been going on for days and has accomplished literally fuck all. Time to move on.
Now about we drop this freaking unproductive argument, eh? It's been going on for days and has accomplished literally fuck all. Time to move on.
I understand both sides of the argument.
Ankokudaishogun wants a more literal translation, because many things could be lost in translation adaptions. Since these are information books and not stories, these lost nuggets could be important. Case in point, Haku's village could be a separate one from the one most are thinking.
H-man though is following already-established translations. Which, for most translations, it is the expected. If the official translation says the name of James Potter is Thiago in Brazil, for a real Harry Potter example, every brazilian translation needs to translate James to Thiago.
Ankokudaishogun wants a more literal translation, because many things could be lost in translation adaptions. Since these are information books and not stories, these lost nuggets could be important. Case in point, Haku's village could be a separate one from the one most are thinking.
H-man though is following already-established translations. Which, for most translations, it is the expected. If the official translation says the name of James Potter is Thiago in Brazil, for a real Harry Potter example, every brazilian translation needs to translate James to Thiago.
Not exactly. I'm quite fine with the level of literality used by H-man
I just don't want H-man changing the MEANING of something just because he thinks it doesn't make sense AND not telling the readers he did make such a change.
It's not like he has space constraints: as I said a note explaining the difference would be enough.
Without an explanation for the change, if somebody would read the translation comparing it to the original they would think either it's a typo of H-man or H-man is not a reliable translator (you really cannot mix up the kanji for Mist and Water)
Also, the possibility of it NOT being wrong. Maybe Water Country is actually a federation made of many smaller countries, Mist being one of them.
Or maybe it's a confining country.
I am convinced it's just a typo. It's still not a good reason to change it.
Therefore, when in doubt, stick to the original text and add a note about the inconsistencies. It's the most obvious course of action, giving the reader all the informations of the original text so they can firm their own opinion.
I also don't think it's unproductive.
I mean, his reason for change the meaning of a word was "I think it's wrong and I'm not going to tell you this".
It means he could change ANYTHING that doesn't conform to his view of the Naruto-verse... without telling anybody!
How can I trust somebody who does it?
Let me state I believe H-man being in good faith, obviously.
And yes, I had (and keep having) MANY bad experiences with people translating that way. Professionals, not even amateurs.
I just don't want H-man changing the MEANING of something just because he thinks it doesn't make sense AND not telling the readers he did make such a change.
It's not like he has space constraints: as I said a note explaining the difference would be enough.
Without an explanation for the change, if somebody would read the translation comparing it to the original they would think either it's a typo of H-man or H-man is not a reliable translator (you really cannot mix up the kanji for Mist and Water)
Also, the possibility of it NOT being wrong. Maybe Water Country is actually a federation made of many smaller countries, Mist being one of them.
Or maybe it's a confining country.
I am convinced it's just a typo. It's still not a good reason to change it.
Therefore, when in doubt, stick to the original text and add a note about the inconsistencies. It's the most obvious course of action, giving the reader all the informations of the original text so they can firm their own opinion.
I also don't think it's unproductive.
I mean, his reason for change the meaning of a word was "I think it's wrong and I'm not going to tell you this".
It means he could change ANYTHING that doesn't conform to his view of the Naruto-verse... without telling anybody!
How can I trust somebody who does it?
Let me state I believe H-man being in good faith, obviously.
And yes, I had (and keep having) MANY bad experiences with people translating that way. Professionals, not even amateurs.
No, no, Hinata was one of the few who actually did get a translation (just noticed that Sakura and Minato got one too). How they managed that when Naruto or even Sasuke didn't, I have no idea.
I suppose these are the main ones left that I'm genuinely interested in knowing what could be said: Third Hokage Part 1 & 2, Orochimaru Part 1 & 2. The rest are more minor for me.
I suppose these are the main ones left that I'm genuinely interested in knowing what could be said: Third Hokage Part 1 & 2, Orochimaru Part 1 & 2. The rest are more minor for me.
Lording it over the ignorant masses, of course. :evil:
Yoroi being "disguised as a Leaf ninja" is an interesting phrase since it sounds like he's an infiltrator, not that he's one of their ninja converted into a spy. I think there might have been a mention in the fanbook that implied the same. Which begs the question of how he (and his teammate, I expect) got in there. Slip into the system with perfectly fake records or perhaps replace another person and take over their life?
I don't understand how he's meant to be Kabuto's superior in rank in any way. They're both genin in Konoha and Kabuto is the boss' right hand in Oto. Maybe Kabuto's a bit of a wildcard in terms in rank in his real village because of his unique employment.
Kin's entry was sadly no more informative than the manga. Except that she genuinely envired Sakura's hair? Pink must be her favourite colour.
Written confirmation that Orochimaru's tattoo is a summoning seal. Shame it doesn't explain what the point of it is because he still needs blood and hand-seals, with the extra step of swiping the tattoo as well IIRC. But there's also confirmation that his snake had been branded with the cursed seal too. I was never entirely sure whether the markings might have just been symbolic instead of literally. I'd like to have seen more experiments in that regard.
Yoroi being "disguised as a Leaf ninja" is an interesting phrase since it sounds like he's an infiltrator, not that he's one of their ninja converted into a spy. I think there might have been a mention in the fanbook that implied the same. Which begs the question of how he (and his teammate, I expect) got in there. Slip into the system with perfectly fake records or perhaps replace another person and take over their life?
I don't understand how he's meant to be Kabuto's superior in rank in any way. They're both genin in Konoha and Kabuto is the boss' right hand in Oto. Maybe Kabuto's a bit of a wildcard in terms in rank in his real village because of his unique employment.
Kin's entry was sadly no more informative than the manga. Except that she genuinely envired Sakura's hair? Pink must be her favourite colour.
Written confirmation that Orochimaru's tattoo is a summoning seal. Shame it doesn't explain what the point of it is because he still needs blood and hand-seals, with the extra step of swiping the tattoo as well IIRC. But there's also confirmation that his snake had been branded with the cursed seal too. I was never entirely sure whether the markings might have just been symbolic instead of literally. I'd like to have seen more experiments in that regard.
The Demon Bros. don't have scratched forehead protectors, so at least they never went that far. They don't have registry numbers, but neither do any of the Hidden Mist ninjas. And no mention of them with Zabuza.
So yeah, they're treated as a separate team. Maybe they were hired at the same time but without allegiance.
By the way, since I'm not sure if people knew already, but: Naruto's seal is the Shishoufuuin, or the 'Four Bigrams Seal'. What Minato did was overlay two seals at once, creating a seal with eight symbols. So presumably, you can only create four or five at most, for whatever purpose, and overlay them simultaneously to create higher levels.
So yeah, they're treated as a separate team. Maybe they were hired at the same time but without allegiance.
By the way, since I'm not sure if people knew already, but: Naruto's seal is the Shishoufuuin, or the 'Four Bigrams Seal'. What Minato did was overlay two seals at once, creating a seal with eight symbols. So presumably, you can only create four or five at most, for whatever purpose, and overlay them simultaneously to create higher levels.
Scratched headbands appears to be a symbol of Akatsuki, not missing-nin in general. Deidara, prior to his recruitment, wore an unscratched headband as well.
When the Demon Brothers lost, Gatou accused Zabuza of failing which implies that they were his partners/subordinates. They also aren't given a rank in the databook.
Strangely, I've just been skimming through the early part of the Wave Arc and I can't see any mention of Zabuza himself being a missing-nin until Haku first appears.
When the Demon Brothers lost, Gatou accused Zabuza of failing which implies that they were his partners/subordinates. They also aren't given a rank in the databook.
Strangely, I've just been skimming through the early part of the Wave Arc and I can't see any mention of Zabuza himself being a missing-nin until Haku first appears.