The White Devil of the Moon Chapter 12

[Wilder]

Uhh, you're welcome? (I honestly don't know if that wasn't an insult or not) Also, I don't particularly like or hate this story, I'm mostly ambivalent to it, it's mostly just a time-passer really.

And I can see where you're coming from at least. That WOULD be frustrating if it happened to one of my favourite series.

And considering how badly beaten the dead horse of SM Fanon is it must ten times worse I'm guessing?

 

[WarChild]

Your approval is a greater mark against this series than any complaint I could ever raise against it, Gafgar. Go back to your rape fantasies and your Hitler shipping, I can tear this fic's failings apart just fine without your help.

Invoking Godwin's Law? If you invoke that, I'll invoke "there are more important things in life than arguing over fiction."

I mean, the whole "the fic is bad, and you should feel bad for enjoying it" mentallity. It's not healthy thinking. It speaks of a person who wants to force all those around to think like him. Like the fate of the world hinges if some non-existance being has the correct characterization.

 

[Comartemis]

Uhh, you're welcome? (I honestly don't know if that wasn't an insult or not)

It wasn't meant as one, I apologize if that's how you took it.

And I can see where you're coming from at least. That WOULD be frustrating if it happened to one of my favourite series.

And considering how badly beaten the dead horse of SM Fanon is it must ten times worse I'm guessing?

You have no idea. :blue:

Invoking Godwin's Law? If you invoke that, I'll invoke "there are more important things in life than arguing over fiction."

That too, but I'm referring to a fic Gafgar wrote where he shipped Fate with Adolph Hitler. I believe I need say no more on the subject, my opinion of it and of him for writing it should be self-evident.

I mean, the whole "the fic is bad, and you should feel bad for enjoying it" mentallity. It's not healthy thinking. It speaks of a person who wants to force all those around to think like him. Like the fate of the world hinges if some non-existance being has the correct characterization.

Bad characterization is like bad spelling and grammar. The more it appears in a story the more objectively bad the story is. The exceptions being cases where it's deliberately bad, which usually entails either a comedy/parody or just an author who's being completely shameless about his character bashing.

 

[Wilder]

That too, but I'm referring to a fic Gafgar wrote where he shipped Fate with Adolph Hitler.

....Wut?

I can't even feel mad.....I think I've passed disgust and anger and have looped back to just plain confused...

 

[WarChild]

Bad characterization is like bad spelling and grammar. The more it appears in a story the more objectively bad the story is. The exceptions being cases where it's deliberately bad, which usually entails either a comedy/parody or just an author who's being completely shameless about his character bashing.

But why treat it as the most important thing in life? Really, it's like shipping.

Seriously, the more I see you harp on this, I am believing this is the only meaning of your life.

 

[Comartemis]

But why treat it as the most important thing in life? Really, it's like shipping.

Seriously, the more I see you harp on this, I am believing this is the only meaning of your life.

That's because it is one of the most important things in fanfiction. It's one of the biggest differences between a good fic and a bad fic.

Firstly, characterization is nothing like shipping, which is completely optional and frequently inappropriate for a number of story types. Squeezing a ship into a fic without tying it into the plot somehow is a very easy way to fuck up an otherwise good series.

Good characterization is essential for all fics. Even Ero-Sennin has good characterization for the characters in BDSM in that he makes it clear right away that he's taking lots of creative liberties with the characters of Usagi and the rest; he deliberately divorces his characters away from the canon characters, and then he makes them internally consistent. This is how you use "bad" characterization properly in a comedy/parody fic.

Bissek's work, on the other hand, is not comedy. When bissek writes Luna being a bitch and jumping to conclusions every five minutes, or when he writes the Senshi acting like thugs to get Fate away from Nanoha it's because he expects us to believe that canon Luna and the canon Senshi would actually act like this under these circumstances. Those of us who've watched Sailor Moon can tell otherwise, and so the fic takes a hit in quality due to the dissonance between what we know and what we're expected to believe. Those who don't watch Sailor Moon don't pick up on this because they don't know the characters as well as we do. This is how you get fanon bullshit like "Pluto the Master Manipulator" or "Evil Tyrant Neo-Queen Serenity". Or in this case, "Trigger Happy Shoot-First-Ask-After-We-Get-Pwned Senshi".

Nanoha has the same problem in a couple of scenes. The part where she vaporized Jadeite during the wedding was a major out-of-character moment for her; Nanoha does not kill her enemies. Ever. Not even Quattro could provoke her into using lethal force after she tortured her daughter half to death in front of her.

 

[Prince Charon]

Nanoha has the same problem in a couple of scenes. The part where she vaporized Jadeite during the wedding was a major out-of-character moment for her; Nanoha does not kill her enemies. Ever. Not even Quattro could provoke her into using lethal force after she tortured her daughter half to death in front of her.

Huh. I hadn't thought it at the time, because the Senshi do kill their enemies, but that's a good point.

 

[ragnarok1337]

Coartemis, I just wanted to point out for what I imagine to be the 15th time already...THAT SHIT ENDED NEARLY 6 CHAPTERS AGO. I understand that you don't like the fic. You probably don't like what bissek is doing right now. But instead of finding new problems you keep harping on about something that ceased being relevant several chapters ago. That's why I disagree with you so much. You want to criticize the fic, fine. But do it for something relevant.

 

[Comartemis]

Coartemis, I just wanted to point out for what I imagine to be the 15th time already...THAT SHIT ENDED NEARLY 6 CHAPTERS AGO. I understand that you don't like the fic. You probably don't like what bissek is doing right now. But instead of finding new problems you keep harping on about something that ceased being relevant several chapters ago. That's why I disagree with you so much. You want to criticize the fic, fine. But do it for something relevant.

Right. Current stuff. Explain how Miyuki is somehow a bigger threat to Beryl than the whole team put together is.

 

[Tsukino_kage]

Wait, this was a necro? :unsure:

Actually, this fic is NOT perfectly fine. I said my piece on why earlier and I feel I do not need to repeat myself on where the fic is weak. I can certainly agree with Comartemis' points, but I don't agree with his methods. You can tell a man he's wrong, but as long as he's not hurting anyone with it, you can't force him to change. It has to come from within. At least he's not taking the Perfect Lionheart and Skysaber option of harrassing his own readers.

For the record, I actually liked the work those 2 did. When things got insane, I just suspended my disbelief and went along with the ride to enjoy it. That's what all this is about as far as I'm concerned, having fun :lol: No need to take it so personally. Say your piece, it's your right, then leave in peace.

 

[ragnarok1337]

Right. Current stuff. Explain how Miyuki is somehow a bigger threat to Beryl than the whole team put together is.

See, THAT is a current issue. And while it was kind of cool, it made no logical sense. Even if Miyuki took Beryl completely by surprise (if I remember my SM correctly the Senshi didn't even try and bother with sneak attacks when they invaded the DK), she shouldn't have logically gotten that far.

But to be honest, I don't care. Despite its fallacies, I still enjoy the fic. YMMV, of course. You are free to think differently.

Coartemis, why are you still here if this fic sucks so bad? You said you won't bother to read the next chapter. But last chapter you wouldn't read the next, and you did that for the chapter before. I do hope you won't do the same when bissek posts his next chapter.

 

[Comartemis]

Coartemis, why are you still here if this fic sucks so bad? You said you won't bother to read the next chapter. But last chapter you wouldn't read the next, and you did that for the chapter before. I do hope you won't do the same when bissek posts his next chapter.

I told you, I have a quota of griefing to fill. :evil2: Or maybe I'm trying to use tough love to help a decent author become a better author. Take your pick.

And I didn't read the next chapter, nor have I read any of them since chapter 6-ish. Sometime around then anyways, I remember stopping around the point where Alicia was showing signs of life. What I am doing is following the TV Tropes page, which keeps me more or less up-to-date on current events (and before you ask, I go on wiki walks through the fanfiction section when I'm bored in class, I'm not following this fic specifically). Miyuki's performance got posted up in White Devil's crowning moments of awesome subpage, and I bring it up because it set my bullshit detector a-ringin'.

Setting aside all questions of youma and Dark General combat skills and Miyuki's abilities in relation to both them and the Senshi, I'm about 99.9% sure that Beryl is even less vulnerable to mundane weapons than her youma are. I'm sure bissek's reasoning is that she's a human sorceress and so is squishy or something like that, but she's a human sorceress who's been alive for the last 10,000+ years and hasn't aged at all since the Silver Millennium. No way in hell is she not swimming in dark magic to the point of being some manner of uberyouma.

 

[Dark Knight Gafgar]

rape fantasies

lolwut?

That too, but I'm referring to a fic Gafgar wrote where he shipped Fate with Adolph Hitler.

....Wut?

I can't even feel mad.....I think I've passed disgust and anger and have looped back to just plain confused...

<a href='http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5327988/1/Ach_scheisse' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>I did.</a> It's a crackfic, of course.

 

[Comartemis]

lolwut?

Mirror universe Nanoha. Something about Nanoha being Evil!Yuuno's sex slave, I think you brought it up in the White Devil ideas thread. That would be right around the point where I wrote you off as being completely fucking depraved.

 

[Dark Knight Gafgar]

And how, exactly, does making the villain villainous count as a "rape fantasy"?

 

[Comartemis]

And how, exactly, does making the villain villainous count as a "rape fantasy"?

Because there's villainous and then there's just plain fucking sick, and the content an author puts into his stories says something about the author himself. Unless you suppose that, say, Agony in Pink was written by someone who despised everything he put into that particular pile of garbage?

 

[Dark Knight Gafgar]

I have no idea what the hell "Agony in Pink" is. Sounds like a 40k novel/fic about a Slaanesh cult, though.

 

[Comartemis]

I have no idea what the hell "Agony in Pink" is. Sounds like a 40k novel/fic about a Slaanesh cult, though.

Close. Think 'My Immortal', then fill it with snuff and torture porn. I think it got a website that was hosting it banned in Australia back in the '90s. I envy you for not having heard of it.

 

[nick012000]

I have no idea what the hell "Agony in Pink" is. Sounds like a 40k novel/fic about a Slaanesh cult, though.

Close. Think 'My Immortal', then fill it with snuff and torture porn. I think it got a website that was hosting it banned in Australia back in the '90s. I envy you for not having heard of it.

Hey, Agony in Pink wasn't that bad. It was just a fic about the graphic rape and torture of the original pink Power Ranger; it was nowhere near as bad as that horrible sin against literature.

 

[Wilder]

Hey, Agony in Pink wasn't that bad. It was just a fic about the graphic rape and torture of the original pink Power Ranger; it was nowhere near as bad as that horrible sin against literature

'Just' rape? Dude, nothing ever, ever excuses rape of any kind.
Yeah, you can try the 'It's just fiction' excuse, but in the end, someone thought up a rape scenario in detail.

Which, y'know, should say something about the person who wrote it.

 

[Chaotic Symbolism]

Also unlike characters from Manga/Comics, Anime/Cartoons, or Books who are just drawings and words. "Kimberly" is a real person or at least her actor Amy Jo Johnson is.

 

[Dark Knight Gafgar]

Yeah, you can try the 'It's just fiction' excuse, but in the end, someone thought up a rape scenario in detail.

Which, y'know, should say something about the person who wrote it.

Yeah - this is why, if the subject ever comes up in one of my fics, it's left offscreen.

 

[ragnarok1337]

Yeah, you can try the 'It's just fiction' excuse, but in the end, someone thought up a rape scenario in detail.

Which, y'know, should say something about the person who wrote it.

Yeah - this is why, if the subject ever comes up in one of my fics, it's left offscreen.

They have a right to be wary of your recommendations. Like they said, you DID ship Hitler and Fate. Frankly, that entire fic sucked. And not just that chapter.

 

[Dark Knight Gafgar]

Yeah, you can try the 'It's just fiction' excuse, but in the end, someone thought up a rape scenario in detail.

Which, y'know, should say something about the person who wrote it.

Yeah - this is why, if the subject ever comes up in one of my fics, it's left offscreen.

They have a right to be wary of your recommendations. Like they said, you DID ship Hitler and Fate. Frankly, that entire fic sucked. And not just that chapter.

It was crack for a reason, you know.

 

[ragnarok1337]

It was crack for a reason, you know.

Crack is bad for your health! But seriously, crack can be okay in small amounts, but there is a time when too much is...well, too much. Crackfics that are either too ridiculous (even for crack) or go on for more than 1 or 2 chapters cease being funny.