Naruto The Narutoversity

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

Hiruzen was said to be 68 in the first databook and then 69 in the second and third. This is despite the first databook covering chapter 1-120 which includes the very day that Hiruzen died. Just about everyone who appeared in the first databook with an age was made a year older in the second, so I wouldn't much stock in it.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

Did the first Databook give two ages for characters who's birthdays were in May and June?

 

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

Two ages? No.

Chouji, 1st May, 12.
Kankuro, 15th May, 14.
Iruka, 26th May, 25.

Dosu, 12th June, 14.
Gozu/Meizu, 6th June, 25.
Kurenai, 11th June, 27.
Itachi, 9th June, 17.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

Well if Itachi's birthday is June, and the Konoha crush happened on August 1st (one month after the 1st round of the Chuunin exam,) and he's 18 at the end of Part 1, Itachi must have been 18 during the Konoha Crush, despite his Databook 1 age being 17.

The only way that works is if the Databook 1 ages are their ages at the start of the manga, meaning that Naruto's graduation must have been before the 8th of February.

 

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

You're where I was like three years ago. :/

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

*crosses arms*

I don't see you concluding that Naruto's graduation exam must have been before the 23rd January (based off of Shino's DB1 age being 12 and his DB2 age being 13) in that post.

Instead you assume that the end of Part 1 must have been late January, almost 7 months since the Chuunin exams. Even if Konohamaru (Birthdate: December 30) has a birthday during Part 1, and even with the 3 months timeskip, going from Chuunin exams 1st round on July 1st to after January 23 seems like a huge gap. Not to mention the fact that if Sarutobi was 68 in the March of the year of the start of the manga, he'd be dead before his 69th birthday.

It seems more likely to me that the Academy graduates classes every 6 months, right after the Chuunin exams in January/February and July/August, and that Hiruzen was 68 when Naruto graduated around January, and celebrated his 69th birthday less than a couple of weeks later.

 

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

I believe my actual conclusion was something like:

Since I think goldenarms had the right of it in saying Kishimoto wasn't concerned with keeping track of the birthdays.

Six months...I feel like the idea been brought up before, probably in a discussion about how few ninja graduate yearly, but I think there was something contradicting it. Nothing comes to mind right now though. :hmm:

There being seven months between graduation and the Chuunin Exams doesn't sound much better to me either though. That's a whole lot of time without much to show for it.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

IDK, as far as I can tell, Naruto must have graduated before February 8th, or Sarutobi never would made it to his 69th Birthday party.

...On account of being dead.

Maybe I'm wrong about classes graduating every 6 months, but it does neatly explain Gai saying he made his students wait for a year. They graduated around July of the year before the manga's start, and entered the exams about a year later, while the Rookie Nine entered after only 6 months active service.

There being seven months between graduation and the Chuunin Exams doesn't sound much better to me either though. That's a whole lot of time without much to show for it.

About six months. Late/near-end of January to start of July.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

Another Theory! (Because I like keeping knight504 in a constant state of "being behind on updating the links in the first post." )

Six Paths Chakra: What the heck is it?

Based off of, and revised and expanded from this post I made in the Naruto Question thread.

Six Paths Chakra can be described as exactly that. That is, the chakra of the Rikudou Sennin (and his mother and brother.) Six Paths Chakra is the chakra that is acquired by eating from the fruit of the Shinju.

This chakra cannot be entirely passed down or inherited in its full form. Kaguya has huge "Six Paths Stamina" and large quantities of Six Paths Chakra flowing through her pathways, but neither Hagoromo nor Hamura can be said to have fully inherited it.

Hagoromo inherited Kaguya's Six Paths Physical Energy, and her Rinne Sharingan, albeit in a watered-down form, the Rinnegan.

Hamura inherited Kaguya's Six Path Spiritual Energy, and her Byakugan and All-Killing Ash Bones.

At some point after Hagoromo sealed the Juubi's body and Chakra within himself and/or Kaguya was sealed within Chibaku Tensei, Hamura gave Hagoromo his Six Paths Spiritual Energy, and then left for the moon some time afterwards. At some point between these two events, Hamura fathered the Progenitors of the Hyuga and Kaguya clans.

After being gifted with the Six Paths Spiritual Energy by his brother, Hagoromo sired two Children, Indra and Ashura. Indra inherited the Six Paths Spiritual Energy and the Rinnegan, but, due to not having the Six Paths Physical Energy, his body wasn't strong enough to withstand the full Rinnegan, and it devolved into the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan. Ashura inherited the Six Paths Physical Energy, as Hagoromo only had one special power to pass down compared to Hamura's two (even if the Rinnegan was definitely the best.)

It should be noted at this point that, as anyone who's ever seen a Yin-Yang symbol before knows, there is a little bit of Yin in the Yang half and vice-versa. Therefore, it would be more accurate to say that Hamura and Indra inherited a large quantity of Six Paths Spiritual Energy and a comparatively much smaller amount of Six Paths Physical Energy, which they could combine to use Six Paths Yin Release/Power. Hagoromo (initially) and Ashura inherited a large quantity of Six Paths Physical Energy and a comparatively much smaller amount of Six Paths Spiritual Energy, which they could combine to use Six Paths Yang Release/Power.

This is not to say that Indra was limited to Yin Release Jutsu and Ashura Yang, as while Indra had Six Paths Spiritual Energy, he had regular Physical Energy, with the opposite being true of Ashura.

Fusing the chakra of Ashura and Indra (or their Transmigrants) creates the Original Six Paths Chakra that Kaguya (and later Hagoromo) possessed.

But what is Six Paths chakra? Well, simply put, it's like Chakra but better.

One person who we know had Six Paths power temporarily, without other factors like transmigrants, Tailed Beast chakra, Natural Energy, Hashirama cells or the Rinnegan is Kakashi. Obito stole some of Madara's Six Paths Chakra, and later gave it to Kakashi when he migrated to him.

It allowed him to do stuff like this:

It makes you stronger/faster and increases the strength of your Jutsu.

The ""diluted" Spiritually-weighted Six Paths Chakra that the Uchiha possessed allowed them to generate black fire once they had acquired their Mangekyo, as well as craft incredibly strong Genjutsu. The best Medical Ninja in the world is a Senju, Hashirama's bloodline gave him an incredible healing factor, and a great deal of his Mokuton Jutsu probably, unbeknownst to Hashirama, also incorporated Physically-weighted Six Paths Chakra, or Six Paths Yang Release, seeing as Yamato's elements are Water, Earth and Yang, and Zabuza used Yang Water Hand Seals to supercharge his Water Dragon Bullet. That's why Yamato's Mokuton could never measure up to Hashirama's. As he wasn't Ashura's transmigrant, he didn't have any Six Paths Yang chakra, or at least far, far less. Trace amounts, really. He has "Diet Six Paths Physical Energy."

The 3rd Raikage and Darui, with their Black Lightning, are probably like the Gold and Silver brothers in that they're related to Hagoromo, albeit probably more distantly.* Considering that some Senju left and became Uzumaki, I'd wager that a few other Senju also migrated to Lightning Country and ended up siring some of the ancestors of the Raikage.


If Indra and Ashura chakra is combined to form Six Paths Chakra in an Uchiha, i.e, Indra's descendants, their chakra is strengthened, but nothing else. They don't awaken the Rinnegan, because they don't have a "Body of the Sage" that can withstand the "Eyes of the Sage." However, if they find a way to strengthen their body, such as a healthy infusion of Hashirama Cells ("It does a body good! 10 out of 10 Med-nins recommend!") they'll awaken it after enough time has passed for their "Chakra DNA" to be re-written or whatever. This is what happened with Madara, Obito and Sasuke (although as Sasuke's Hashirama infusion was different, being healed by Kabuto, I doubt he'll ever acquire the Mokuton.)

If the combination occurs in a Senju/Uzumaki, they also get Six Paths Chakra and even stronger bodies (stacking the durability/stamina boost of their bloodline with the strength speed bost of Six Paths Chakra,) as well as stronger Jutsu. Also, if they yoink a Sharingan from an Uchiha, they'll awaken the Rinnegan too, and probably much faster than Madara did, as upgrading an eye is probably a much simpler process than upgrading an entire body.

Adding Natural Energy to Six Paths Chakra gives you Six Paths Sage Chakra, which allows you to make Truth-Seeking Balls, and was what Naruto was using before Sasuke showed up, when he kicked Madara's Truth-Seeking Ball away.

Six Paths Sage Chakra is also what grants the bearer the power of flight, despite Kakashi's musings in Chapter 680. Kaguya had access to Natural Energy after merging with the Shinju, Hagoromo gained access to Natural Energy after sealing the Ten-Tails within himself, Madara and Obito gained access to Kaguya's Six Paths Chakra after unknowingly becoming a Jinchuuriki to her as well as the Natural Energy from the Shinju, and Naruto also knows Senjutsu.

Seeing as Sasuke and Kakashi are the only two that gain access to Six Paths Chakra, Yin-weighted or otherwise, but don't get any Natural Energy, and they are also the only two who do who can't fly (without winged Susanoo,) this is a safe assumption to make.

If you add Juubi chakra/chakra from all 9 Tailed Beasts to Six Paths Sage Chakra, you get Six Paths Sage Technique, or if you've already learnt how to use Senjutsu, Six Paths Sage Mode.


This theory also neatly explains the Tenseigan. Despite Hamura gifting his Six Paths Spiritual Energy to Hagoromo, he still had traces of Six Path Chakra within him. The Hyuga, descendants of Hamura, also all have small amounts of Six Path Chakra, concentrated and bound within their eyes. Sealing countless Byakugan, all containing tiny amounts of Six Path Chakra, away for millennia allows a massive amount of Six Paths Chakra to be stored up. Add a huge quantity of Six Paths Chakra to a Byakugan, and you get the Tenseigan and Tenseigan Chakra Mode.



*Actually, considering that Madara only started using Storm Release after reabsorbing the Shinju (the alternate form of the Gedo Mazo that likely contained Kaguya's soul and a sizeable portion of her Six Paths Chakra,) in addition to the fact that Hashirama (with his Mokuton) was also descended from Ashura, I'd guess that all combination-element Bloodlines require a relatively minuscule degree of Six Paths Chakra, and those that bear them are either distantly related to the Senju, or are descended from Jinchuuriki of Tailed Beasts that have the corresponding Advanced Element. Perhaps one of Mei's Grandparents or Great-grandparents was a former container of Kokuō.

 

[Knyght]

God of Shinobi

This title first belonged to the Sage of Six Paths for creating the Shinobi Sect and being the forefather of ninjutsu. After his death and chakra became a weapon of war, it became tradition for the strongest shinobi of an era to be called the God of Shinobi as recognition of their superiority over all other ninjas. The level of strength and infamy it took to be considered such is remarkable, making it an incredibly rare title that very few have ever been worthy of. Their power is often considered nothing more than a fairy tale or legend from those who haven't witnessed them in battle themselves.

Senju Hashirama and Sarutobi Hiruzen are the two most recent ninja to have been a part of this tradition, the first for the incredibly power of his kekkei genkai and the second for his mastery of all ninja arts.

 

[Knyght]

Three Brigades of the Hidden Sand (Official Version)

Due to the harsh lifestyle of the shinobi families native to the Land of Wind, they were nomads who traveled in small groups that never fully became clans in the same sense as those that lived in other countries. So instead of developing secret jutsu to be passed down between them, the clans of Suna were more prone to specific ninjutsu styles based on the Cloth Binding Jutsu, Puppet Jutsu and Iron Fan Jutsu. When the Hidden Sand was formed, the wielders of these styles were brought together into three groups to combine their skills and jutsu: the Binder Brigade, Puppet Brigade and Tempest Brigade.

The Binder Brigade are a group of sealing experts who extend and control ribbons of cloth to bind their enemies. They can achieve all kinds of tricks with their cloth such as using them like a set highly flexible, extra limbs to grab or strike obstacles, hardening them to a steel-like density and constructing them in an assortment of shapes. But its main use is that the ninjas can extend sealing formula through the cloth to completely suppress the movement and chakra of those caught within the wrapping. Maki, former student of Pakura, is the current leader of Binder Brigade though Ebizou remains the most skilled user of their skills.

The Puppet Brigade build puppets of wood and metal that are designed with all kinds of weapons and contraptions, and them control those puppets with chakra strings. The average puppeteer uses all ten fingers to control a single puppet but the more skilled the puppeteer, then the fewer strings they need to control the puppet. Masters of the Puppet Jutsu can wield a puppet with nothing but their chakra with the string is just a conduit to transfer their chakra to the puppet. Puppeteers are well versed in poisons to coat the weapons of their puppets and fill them with gas, and in fuuinjutsu to seal away their puppets and seal even more weapons inside them. Kankurou, the elder brother of the Fifth Kazekage, is the current leader and strongest member of the Puppet Brigade. He was preceded by Sasori and then Chiyo before him.

The Tempest Brigade are a group of the foremost masters of Wind Release in the ninja world. Each member is armed with a giant war fan made of chakra conductive metal and paper that capable of generating powerful winds. The ninja channels chakra through the fan as they swing to amplify and control the air currents stirred by its passage and release their wind jutsu. Not only does this remove the need for hand-seals entirely, but it also turns the chakra nature that is most suited for close-to-mid range combat into one that can easily cover great distances without losing any of its offensive power. These ninjas are typically armed with one or two smaller fans as well that are better suited for attacking with wind jutsu at close range when forced into melee combat.

The most talented members of the brigade have the right to sign the weasel summoning contract who wield razor-sharp sickles to great effect and can enhance with the summoner's wind jutsu with their weaponry. One of their favoured tactics from the wars was to grind the surrounding earth to dust and sand with ferocious winds and whip up a sandstorm to blind and tear at their enemies, and even more more terrifying is is their cooperation ninjutsu capable of creating hurricanes that can overturn entire battlefields. Temari, the elder sister of the Fifth Kazekage, is the current leader and most powerful member of the Tempest Brigade.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

2 questions:

Do you think Suna created the group as an answer/counter to the Mist's Seven Swordsman?

and:

Do you think they could have been inspired either by witnessing someone use the Bashōsen: Coil of Wind, or by Madara's Gunbai?

 

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

I was actually thinking it could be more like a counter to the ninja clans with hijutsu or kekkei genkai. They don't seem to have clans, or even last names, in Suna so I thought that they could instead have developed a few fighting styles and created groups within the village based on their use e.g. the Puppet Brigade, Tempest Brigade and what I'd probably call the Binding Brigade who wield the Cloth Binding Jutsu. Things like puppetry, fan wielding and clothing binding might have even existed prior to the village's formation as sort of native jutsu of the Land of Wind.

And since Bashōsen: Coil of Wind would literally the first wind fan in existence, that seems as good an inspiration as any. I hadn't thought of that.

Edit: Might be better to bring them all into one entry like the Three Brigades of the Hidden Sand or something. :hmm:

Edit 2: So I did.

 

[Knyght]

Forbidden Scroll of Seals

This was a scroll created by the First Hokage, Senju Hashirama, after the hidden village system was created and many of the jutsu that carried risks to the user or others were labelled as kinjutsu. It not only contains all of the kinjutsu that exist within Konoha - including their names, description of the effect they have, the risks of using them and instructions on how to perform them - but a record of any kinjutsu they have discovered in the hands of foreign shinobi, organization or hidden village.

Because of the wealth of information within the scroll, it also has an incredibly intensive safety measures to prevent it from being used by unauthorized personnel or enemies. The first kinjutsu within the scroll is the Multiple Shadow Clone Jutsu, considered the least dangerous and most common jutsu within the scroll; anyone who learns the Shadow Clone Jutsu through the appropriate channels are expected to read this entry to fully understand the dangers of the jutsu. This is one reason that the jutsu has been left unsealed and can be viewed just by opening the scroll. The other reason is to lure a reader into a false sense of achievement as they believe that the rest of the scroll has no protection beyond its location inside the Hokage Tower.

In actuality, the scrolls contains an array of sealing formula that grows more complex the deeper into the scroll it grows. This sealing jutsu is used to prevent any of the jutsu beyond the first from being seen without the appropriate unsealing jutsu applied as each jutsu requires its own unsealing to be unlocked. Those ranked highest within the village have access to several of its unsealing jutsu each while the Hokage has the right to unseal them all.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

I remember one fic where the scroll has extensive security seals upon it, that can only be bypassed by someone with the blood of a Hokage.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

I remember one fic where the scroll has extensive security seals upon it, that can only be bypassed by someone with the blood of a Hokage.

Which is ridiculous

 

[Altered Nova]

RE: The Naruversity

It would make sense not to bother securing the Kage Bunshin jutsu, as that one has apparently already been stolen, at least by Iwagakure. Both Deidara and some Iwa Jounin in Kakashi Gaiden know that jutsu.

The only problem is that Hiruzen and every other ninja looking for Naruto in the first chapter seemed to be genuinely concerned that Naruto could actually use that scroll to release the Kyuubi and take revenge on the village. So either the scroll doesn't have any kind of security on it or they thought Naruto might actually crack through it.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

Iwa and Kumo know the B-rank ninjutsu Kage Bunshin, not the A-rank kinjutsu Taju Kage Bunshin

 

[Altered Nova]

RE: The Naruversity

Except despite the databook entries, those are essentially the same jutsu. The only difference is the number of clones created, they use the same handseals, and Naruto straight up says he only had time to learn one jutsu from the Scroll of Seals.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

The difference in rank between Mass Shadow Clone and regular Shadow Clone is the same difference between Leaf Whirlwind being a D-rank and Leaf Great Whirlwind being a C-rank, when they both consist of a series of kicks.

Remember, Jutsu ranks correspond to Ninja ranks, just like missions do. Regular Shadow Clone is a B-rank because it's expected that an experienced Chuunin/Special Jounin/average Jounin would be able to perform it, while Mass Shadow Clone is an A-rank because it uses more chakra, and so it's at the level where only an Elite Jounin should be able to use it, unless there's unusual mitigating circumstances.

Despite what fanon might have you believe, it's likely that Shinobi like Kakashi or Asuma could use the Shadow Clone Jutsu the same way Naruto did in part 1. It's just that they've got far more effective and efficient ways to spend their stamina.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

Actually, it's stated the jutsu ranking is based on DIFFICULTY.

Also, the problem with Kage Bunshin is it still drains on your energies... Naruto can spam them because his Kyubi-augmented Uzumaki vitality de facto recharges his energy reserves almost faster than he can deplete them. Same for the clones: he can make many clones because they might start with little energy, but they can recover it very fast.

Basically(fake numbers):
if Asuma makes 10 clones, they need 10 minutes to build their energy back to full power
Naruto and his clones only need 1 minute, which means he can make 100 clones, taking 10 minutes to get to full power like Asuma, but with a massively greater numeric superiority, or he can make 10 clones every minute, all of them needing only 1 minute to fully recharge


That's, of course, if other people's Kage Bunshin CAN recharge in first place without having a Kyuubi Kage Bunshin(or a Kyuubi Remote Link) in their guts

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

Actually, it's stated the jutsu ranking is based on DIFFICULTY.

...Yes? Kakashi and Asuma are Jounin, and are expected to be skilled and capable enough to perform techniques that are A-rank in difficulty.

*Recharging stuff*

Uh, where exactly are you getting this from? The actual chakra used to produce the clone's physical form isn't much, seeing as Kakashi made a ton at the end of the Wave Arc, when he was almost of chakra.

The real drain from using the clones, aside from the clones drawing extra chakra from the user when they perform Ninjutsu, is that the chakra in the clones resonates with the user. So if Naruto builds up more chakra than what is normally flowing through his pathways, any clone's chakra level will match to rise it. Hence why Neji couldn't tell Naruto's clones from the original.

So if Kakashi made one clone, and just had it sit somewhere and read Icha Icha, his stamina would still effectively cut in half, as if he tried to build up X amount of chakra for a Lightning Cutter, the clone would also get X chakra.

Naruto's stamina recovery isn't so absurdly high that he can literally regain stamina faster than he uses it up. He's never needed more than a night's sleep to recover from chakra exhaustion (search for Tsunade arc,) unlike Kakashi, who's down for a week when he pushes himself too far.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

EDIT for canon corrections.

Neji couldn't tell the original from the clones because all of them had the same amount of chakra, regenerating at the same rate.
And once they were made, it was quite difficult to tell if it was a clone using chakra to power-up his punch or the original. Once made, Clones are as much as independent and real as the Original, so much they can get their energy back by resting.

Except for dispelling, Kage Bunshin are 1:1 copies of the original, with chakra, stamina, etc split equally between Original and Clones at the instant of the creation.


That said, I suspect only Sage Chakra come back to the Original once the clones are dispelled.
Either that, or the Chakra the original gets back is only a fraction of the amount the clones have at the time of their "death"

Naruto's stamina recovery isn't so absurdly high that he can literally regain stamina faster than he uses it up.

It was a hyperbole, but I admit it was written unclear.

 

[nixofcyzerra]

RE: The Naruversity

Kage Bunshin getting chakra from the Original is fanon.

And the chakra of the clones do NOT resonate with the Original until they are dispelled. Neji couldn't tell the original from the clones because all of them had the same amount of chakra, regenerating at the same rate.
And once they were made, it was quite difficult to tell if it was a clone using chakra to power-up his punch or the original. Once made, Clones are as much as independent and real as the Original, so much they can get their energy back by resting.

Except for dispelling, Kage Bunshin are 1:1 copies of the original, with chakra, stamina, etc split equally between Original and Clones at the instant of the creation.


That said, I suspect only Sage Chakra come back to the Original once the clones are dispelled.
Either that, or the Chakra the original gets back is only a fraction of the amount the clones have at the time of their "death"

Word of Inventor.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

Fuck, I totally forgot about that.
Still, Tobirama is explaining what did happen with the mass Hiraishin, not the normal working of Kage Bunshin. Because Naruto's ignorance, Tobirama cannot even be sure he left anything important from his explanation.
I think that explains how one can control\dispel\give orders to Kage Bunshin... but getting more chakra isn't automatic, at very least.

That said, I've corrected my post.