Naruto The Narutoversity

Why did the villagers treat Naruto badly just because he was the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki? Why weren't he and villagers told about his heritage? (Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

Found this pretty solid answer of r/Naruto to the questions of:

Why did the villagers treat Naruto badly just because he was the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki? Why weren't he and villagers told about his heritage?

You need to keep in mind that we are readers that are looking into this world that are informed of all the different rules and important pieces of the story. The people that make up this world do not share the same knowledge we do, just like we don't know most of what goes on in the real world and are easily influenced by rumors and hearsay.

To the people of the Narutoverse, the nine tailed beasts are the equivalents of demons. Note how in Part 1 both Kurama and Shukaku are frequently referred to by this name. This is the same for most of the uninformed in all the countries of the Narutoverse. Many people probably do not even believe them to be real. This is where all the rumors surrounding them came from.

Some of these rumors include the one about the Nine Tails appearing in times of conflict/hatred and how the citizens of Sunagakure came to believe that Shukaku itself was a living ghost of a corrupted priest sealed inside a tea kettle. This just goes to show you how the people of the villages are. And it's pretty realistic actually, when you stop and think about the rumors people spread about the people in power and such.

You cannot expect the people of the villages to be able to grasp these concepts immediately without it causing a shitstorm of events. These people probably hardly understand chakra as it is, let alone the concept of sealing mass beasts of chakra into children to make living weapons. You're giving the people of the villages far too much credit when in reality they are just like us and and too indulged in their own world to really care to understand how the world works. They're selfish like that.

The people of the village are really brought up to think that their village is indestructible and safe. They refer to the Hokage as their lord and believe that as long as the Hokage is around, nothing can defeat them. It's this nationalistic thinking that convinces people to participate in the wars that the villages wage and makes them want to die for it. The people of the villages are subject to the same propaganda that we are in the real world

Hence why you should be able to understand that when the Nine Tails' Rampage happened, and Naruto was said to be host of the Nine Tails, a massive shitstorm happened and rumors spread about like wildfire. These are people who just had their homes destroyed by this very "demon". Do you really expect them to calmly comprehend the situation or understand what a Jinchuriki is, let alone why they are necessary?

If people understood just how unstable Jinchurikis are, they would become even more fearful of the Jinchuriki then they already are. It's bad enough they hear that creatures they believe to be demons are sealed within these children, but if they know that these same demons can be unleashed at any time, destroying their home as they know it, they're gonna be pretty damn fearful. Just look at Killer Bee. He was said to have went on a rampage in the Cloud many times. It's no damn wonder why everyone in the village feared him.

Like I said, the people in these villages aren't the reader and don't possess the same knowledge we do. As the reader, we know pretty much everything. We know just what should be done in every situation because we possess all this knowledge. You have to take into account that these people of the villages don't.

And like I said, they worship the Hokage. So say they're told that Minato, their leader, sacrificed himself by sealing the Nine Tails into his newborn child. Even if it is emphasized again and again that the newborn is a hero and that Minato wanted it this way, the people of the village cannot help but think "the demon fox killed our leader, hurt our family, and destroyed our village". They will continue to equate Naruto with the demon fox no matter what. Nothing can change that.

Hell, it would have been damn worse for Naruto if the Third Hokage didn't outlaw speaking of the incident with the Nine Tails. Rumors would have been even worse and people would probably try to kill Naruto. That's why the Third Hokage did it. He knew that the people of the village wouldn't be able to calmly comprehend the situation and would blow things out of proportion. It's for the same reason that the United States once outlawed being anti-war. People can't be expected to think rationally.

There was also the ongoing threat of if people knew Naruto was Minato's son that his safety would be in danger. Remember how Minato single handedly killed 1000 Iwagakure ninja? Minato was probably made out to be some kind of Saddam Hussein or something. People would be constantly trying to kill Naruto. This was, again, thought of by the Third Hokage in an effort to protect Naruto in a time of public panic and distraught.

And then you have to understand that nobody is perfect. The Third Hokage handled the situation to the best of his ability given his circumstances. Think about it. A giant demon fox just attacked and almost completely annihilated the village. Do you think the people of the village would be calm and understanding? Absolutely not. The same thing happens in the real world when something big happens. The Third Hokage handled it pretty well given the hand he was dealt. He simply didn't handle Naruto himself correctly and didn't raise him correctly as he was too concerned with the village and protecting Naruto's identity as a jinchuriki and Minato's son. You cannot expect the guy to be omnipresent and the perfect all around person. He's going to fuck up, and the upbringing of Naruto was a biggie.

The reason why Naruto didn't "question any of this" is because he was brought up in this hostile environment with no parental love or guidance. When you grow up hated all your life you are going to think its natural, and as a child you don't have the intellect to think "Wait... this isn't right. Why am I being treated this way?" And at times, he probably did question it. He just didn't know what to do. Hence why he became a troublemaker to get attention.

TL;DR: You need to sometimes think about these things. The way Kishimoto portrayed it is actually very realistic and its a shame that not many people actually realize it.
 
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Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

Even if everyone perfectly understood what a jinchuuriki is and the true nature of the bijuu, it would still be understandable for them to fear Naruto. Remember, no one who witnessed Obito's involvement in the Kyuubi attack survived. For all the rank-and-file ninja and civilians know, Kushina, who doesn't seem to have even been a weaponized jinchuuriki, just up and lost control of the Kyuubi one day and it decided to take revenge on the village. Of course they are all going to be terrified of the next Kyuubi host, how can they possibly be certain the same thing won't happen to Naruto some day? The kid may as well be a ticking time bomb.

I question this claim that people would have tried to kill Naruto if they knew he was Minato's son. Chiyo tried to kill Kakashi because she thought he was Sakumo, who killed Sasori's parents. When it was explained to her that Kakashi was actually Sakumo's son, she played it off as senility and never shows hostility to Kakashi again. Basically, ninja do not necessarily hold grudges against the innocent family members of people who wronged them.

Not to mention, by that logic, how is he any safer being publicly known as an Uzumaki survivor and a jinchuuriki? He should already be a target for the other villages because he's a jinchuuriki, plus ninja hated and feared the Uzumaki so much that they not only annihilated their village, but also their entire host nation. How much worse could it possibly be for him if he was also outed as Minato's son?
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

One ninja might not hold grudges against innocent relatives but another ninja might do exactly that. One ninja might not hold grudges against a family because of a grievance but that same ninja might do so against a different family for a different.

Chiyo's an example of one extreme where she has no enmity towards the family of her son's murders where Sasuke's the other extreme where he wanted to kill everyone in the village for the actions of a few. Naruto's heritage being hidden means that this danger was a real possibility.

The fact that the threat to Naruto's life would still be worse is reason enough. Being a jinchuurki, Uzumaki and Namikaze are three separate reasons to consider him an enemy and Naruto being those things all at once adds to the threat even more so.

The Uzumaki, at least, were already defeated. Whatever they might have been before, they're now just another dead clan. They couldn't even find refuge in their allied village which might have preserved them but were instead scattered about the continent. Now Naruto's an orphan born after the Uzumaki Clan was destroyed, meaning he has little to show for that side of his heritage other than a name.

And being Minato's son is something unique to him. There are other jinchuuriki and there are other Uzumaki but there's only one son of the Yellow Flash. Minato certainly thought that'd leave him "constant danger".
 
The Fate of Zori and Waraji (Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
When you're browsing Naruto Forums and see people talking about Sasuke' Tsukuyomi. It hurts. It really does. :rip1:

I'd post my article on the blog and start waving that like a flag but I'd like a translation for DB4's Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi just to make sure I have everything on the topic.

Anyway, new posts: Zabuza's Missing Men, Why Orochimaru Couldn't Stop Sasuke, Tobirama's Water Ninjutsu and The Enslaved Sound Five.

And a less than serious theory:

The Fate of Zori and Waraji

These two are samurai from the Land of Iron who fled their homeland from their crimes rather than face execution. They wandered in exile, selling their services to any who would pay to do any deed that required a sword hand. Eventually they entered the employment of the shipping magnate Gato, one of the richest men in the world.

They pledged their loyalty to him and became his top enforces in exchange for a rich lifestyle. But Gatou was killed by Zabuza and their attempts to control the Land of Waves were an abysmal failure as the resentment of its people boiled over. They barely escaped with their lives in the end.

Driven to the lowest point, they traveled to the Land of Water to become shinobi of the Hidden Mist. Their fighting experience and knowledge of chakra allowed them progress through training at a speedy rate and they soon became genin.

Admittedly, they regretted their life choices when they ended up in the middle of the Fourth Great Shinobi War, facing down a god.

 
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KurokamiDG

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

knight504 said:
When you're browsing Naruto Forums and see people talking about Sasuke' Tsukuyomi. It hurts. It really does. :rip1:

I'd post my article on the blog and start waving that like a flag but I'd like a translation for DB4's Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi just to make sure I have everything on the topic.

Anyway, new posts: Zabuza's Missing Men, Why Orochimaru Couldn't Stop Sasuke, Tobirama's Water Ninjutsu and The Enslaved Sound Five.

And a less than serious theory:

The Fate of Zori and Waraji

These two are samurai from the Land of Iron who fled their homeland from their crimes rather than face execution. They wandered in exile, selling their services to any who would pay to do any deed that required a sword hand. Eventually they entered the employment of the shipping magnate Gato, one of the richest men in the world.

They pledged their loyalty to him and became his top enforces in exchange for a rich lifestyle. But Gatou was killed by Zabuza and their attempts to control the Land of Waves were an abysmal failure as the resentment of its people boiled over. They barely escaped with their lives in the end.

Driven to the lowest point, they traveled to the Land of Water to become shinobi of the Hidden Mist. Their fighting experience and knowledge of chakra allowed them progress through training at a speedy rate and they soon became genin.

Admittedly, they regretted their life choices when they ended up in the middle of the Fourth Great Shinobi War, facing down a god.

Honestly, I wanna know the story of the guy with the Gaibrows with the half-facemask. Got a good theory for that one knight?
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

Either someone who has a case of hero worship for Gai and Kakashi...or Gai's dad and Kakashi's mum had an interesting history.

 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

I'm pretty sure that 'likes to wear half-facemasks' isn't a hereditary trait knight. Although that did give me a rather humorous mental image of Kakashi's mother holding the newborn Kakashi while wearing a half-facemask, and putting a tiny little half-facemask on baby Kakashi while Sakumo rolls his eyes next to her bed.
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

Centuries old family tradition on the mother's side, of course. :snigger:
 

beorn91

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

knight504 said:
The Uzumaki, at least, were already defeated. Whatever they might have been before, they're now just another dead clan. They couldn't even find refuge in their allied village which might have preserved them but were instead scattered about the continent. Now Naruto's an orphan born after the Uzumaki Clan was destroyed, meaning he has little to show for that side of his heritage other than a name.
This argument is still valid if you base your canon on the manga but it became invalid in the anime during the last filler episode when Sasuke and Karin recaptured Suigetsu. Because this particular episode showed why Karin joined Orochimaru and this is because he saved her from slaver. Slavers who wanted to sell her on the black market only because she had "the red heir of the shinobi of Uzushiogakure".

So in the anime verse, slavers captured red heads in the off chance they are Uzumaki but giving Naruto the Uzumaki name is totally safe? Either Jiraya and Konoha's spy network is shit, or they truly abandonned the Uzumaki after the fall of Uzushio and stopped to care for the survivors not lucky enought to already live in Konoha, or Hiruzen has really episodes of senility. (For the manga, this needs confirmation on paper)
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

Poor anime viewers. Forced to live with the confusing mess that is anime canon. ಠ⌣ಠ

Anyway, if Special Chuunin can be a rank then how about Elite Jounin? It could apply to jounin who are in the same weight class as the village's Kage who's power and prestige put them slightly outside the usual hierarchy. The term's thrown around a fair bit in fanon anyway.
 
RE: The Naruversity

Nah, Jōnin are ALREADY the Elite.
IMHO once you hit Jōnin, it's the ROLE that marks your place in the hierarchy- and I'd guess the Jōnin Sensei is one of the highest places.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

'Elite Jounin' is kind of what the sort-of-official Jounin Commander rank is. I believe the term is used to refer only to Shikaku in the manga, but my headcanon is that all of the Jounin who attended the meeting where the Fire Lord selected a new Hokage were Jounin Commanders. So Danzou, Homura, Koharu, Shikaku and the unnamed ANBU commander. Basically, they would be Jounin that have the same security clearance as the Hokage, act as his advisors, and can jointly run the village in an emergency while preparations are being made to appoint a new Hokage (such as immediately after Hiruzen's assassination up until Tsunade returned to take control.)
 
Countries and Hidden Villages (Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
Countries and Hidden Villages
  • Land of Fire and the Hidden Leaf
  • Land of Wind and the Hidden Sand
  • Land of Earth and the Hidden Rock
  • Land of Lightning and the Hidden Cloud
  • Land of Water and the Hidden Mist
  • Land of Rivers and the Hidden Valley
  • Land of Hot Water and the Hidden Steam
  • Land of Whirlpools and the Hidden Eddies
  • Land of Snow and the Hidden Frost
  • Land of Storm and the Hidden Rain
  • Land of Woods and the Hidden Grass
  • Land of Rice Fields and the Hidden Sound
  • Land of Floods and the Hidden Waterfall
  • Land of Mountain and the Hidden Stone
  • Land of Sea and the Hidden Moon
My headcanon is that the Land of Sea is the eastern peninsula and the Land of Iron is the northern peninsula.

So, based on that, there's still the two western countries, the two islands in the middle of the sea and possibly those three pieces of land at the southern and eastern edge of the map. Or just three countries if we treated the furthest islands as a part of the Land of Water and the two islands as one country.
 
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Becoming The Third Hokage (Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
Normally I'd accept new information overwriting old information. But sometimes there are exceptions.

Becoming The Third Hokage

In the Fourth Databook, Hiruzen is said to have become Hokage 31 years before the end of the Fourth Great Shinobi War.

He died 4 years before the end of the war when he was 69 years old, meaning he would have been around 42 years old when Tobirama chose him as the Third Hokage. Yet Hiruzen doesn't look anywhere near 40 years old at the time.

31 years ago the Sannin would have already been 24 years old. But when they were children who graduated from the Academy at 6 years old, Hiruzen appeared years older than when he had become Hokage. Dan died 31 years ago as well but, again, Hiruzen appeared even older than when he was training the Sannin despite being the same year he had become Hokage.

Because of the number of contradictions caused by the Fourth Databook's statement of 31 years, it seems best to ignore it in favour of previous information from the manga and older databooks.

Thus my headcanon is that Hiruzen was appointed as the Third Hokage when he was around 20 years old. At age 25, Hiruzen became the leader of Team 7 who would later become the Legendary Sannin. The rest is history.
 
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Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

Ya know, it seems kind of strange to me that Hiruzen took his genin team after becoming Hokage. Is that typical for a Kage? I could see him taking a single apprentice like Tsunade did with Sakura, but I would think the Hokage would be too busy running the village to deal with an entire team. Did he make an exception because all three Sannin graduated the academy at 6 years old and everyone was like "Holy shit, these genin are so badass I don't think anyone but the Hokage could handle them." Did he split the workload of training his genin with a Jounin? Did he use shadow clones to handle his paperwork while taking them on D-rank missions?
 
RE: The Naruversity

Hiruzen's own team was under the First and Second Hokage.
And Jiraiya's ID was 002301 to Hiruzen's 000261. I'm going and guessing back then the village was still small enough the paperwork was very limited and every jonin, Hokage included, had to take a genin cell
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

While Hiruzen was trained by both brothers, Tobirama was officially Hiruzen's jounin sensei and he took his genin team when Hashirama was still Hokage. Minato likewise took his team before becoming Hokage, and we don't have any examples of Kage from other villages training entire genin teams, only single apprentices. That's why I suspect that Hiruzen's students were an exception because they graduated the academy at a historically young age so they got special treatment. But it just be a case of the village being so small that everyone has to train a team also makes sense.
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

Y'know I don't think Kishimoto had actually intended for Hiruzen to be the Hokage at the time.

The second databook mentions that the Sannin were trained by "the one who would become the Third Hokage" rather than the one who was Hokage. And I believe someone made the distinction that it was impressive that Minato became Hokage in his twenties (it used to be on the wiki and I think there was a citation for it but it's gone now) which wouldn't have mattered if his predecessor had done the same.

But then, hundreds of chapter later, he decided to actually show the event itself and drew Hiruzen as a much younger man. If we hadn't seen that, then I don't think there would have been any problem with Hiruzen becoming Hokage 31 years ago as a 42 year old. I wonder if he just plain forgot and/or wanted to draw Hiruzen young and accidently shot himself in the foot.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

So our choices are:

Disregard the date given in the Fourth Databook for Hiruzen's promotion and assume he became Hokage in his twenties.

Or:

Mentally swap Hiruzen's design in each of those flashbacks so he's older when Tobirama promotes him and he's younger when he's training the Sannin.

Hmm. I'm not sure which retcon I prefer. Probably the first one, because you'd also have to age up Tobirama, Danzou, Homura and Koharu and move the First Shinobi World War to later on the timeline for the promotion flashback to fit with the new databook.
 
RE: The Naruversity

Another possibility: Tobirama nominating him means Hiruzen has been Candidate Hokage(like Danzo).
For many year, his position not made official for REASONS.

After all, Hiruzen was the first Hokage not there at the time of the founding of the village, and probably there were other shinobi, especially older shinobi, who thought he was either too young or not strong enough. The Uchiha might had something with it, unhappy with Tobirama choosing Hiruzen and not Kagami
The actual voting gets postponed time and time again while the various factions try to reach an agreement. Meanwhile Hiruzen does his work as Candidate Hokage so well people forget he's, in fact, still CANDIDATE. This would further explaining why he had a Genin Team.
This until SOMETHING happens(ie: peace conference, or just somebody noticing) but at this point nobody has anything against Hiruzen becoming officially Hokage, as he's been de facto Hokage for years.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

That could work. There's also the issue that Tobirama died right after choosing Hiruzen as his heir, and the only witnesses are Hiruzen's teammates and close comrades. Hiruzen might have had political enemies who insinuated he was leading a conspiracy to steal leadership of the village by lying about Tobirama's last words and it took years to get all that sorted out.
 
RE: The Naruversity

We also must remember the village system were something NEW.
Hell, when did they formalized RANKS in first place?

Even if the village had no problems with Hiruzen, it's possible the Government of Fire was the troublemaker, because they were under the impression Hokage-ship was hereditary or because they weren't asked their opinion.
 
Shisui of the Body Flicker (Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
Shisui of the Body Flicker (Official Version)

After the Transformation Jutsu, Clone Jutsu and Replacement Jutsu, the Body Flicker Jutsu is the most common and most well-known jutsu in existence. Most shinobi can only use it for travel or for escape as its sheer speed and physical demand is too much for them to handle on the battefield. Individuals such as Unruly A and Namikaze Minato have been hailed as the fastest of shinobi and could reach unmatched speeds with the Body Flicker Jutsu. Yet only Uchiha Shisui was ever considered the master of that jutsu.

His mature Sharingan that removed the tunnel vision effect and read the movement of those around him was only one part of the equation, a feat that could be matched by many others in his clan.

The rest was all in his skill. He could flicker from one location to another without a single hint of his passing; not the slightest sound, stirring of leaves or blur in the air to suggest his presence. Or he could leave an after-image in his place after flickering away to create the illusion that he hadn't moved at all, a small trick that allowed him to catch many foes off-guard before it faded. His movements alone could create insubstantial clones that followed in his wake to draw the enemy's eye away from his real self. He seamlessly shifted from one Body Flicker to another in a zig-zagging dance of speed across the battlefield that few could follow, let alone intercept.

He was first known as Shisui of the Mirage as his enemies believed he was simply confusing them with his genjutsu - and he was quite happy to mix his Body Flicker with Genjutsu: Sharingan to truly bewilder the mind - before they were killed without realising the truth. When the true nature of his fighting style was discovered, he became Shisui of the Body Flicker as both a sign of respect and a warning.
 
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nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

I personally like to think that both Minato and Shisui had exceptional reflexes (Minato was known for being fast even without the Hiraishin,) and it was that, combined with Shisui's Sharingan and his experience with the Jutsu, that resulted in his extreme ability with the Shunshin.

If the Body Flicker does work by "by using chakra to temporarily vitalise the body," then the average Shinobi not having the reflexes and reaction time to "keep up" with the enhanced speed would explain why it isn't more widely used.

Plus, A combining his Lightning Release Chakra Mode with a Body Flicker. The LRCM electrically stimulates his nervous system. You'd think that would improve his reflexes.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

That does make sense. So basically, most ninja only use Body Flicker for short straightforward line-of-sight "jumps" through open terrain (such as flickering to a rooftop or a nearby alleyway to get a headstart on escaping an opponent) because their minds literally cannot keep up with their enhanced body. If the average ninja tried to use Body Flicker to close in on an opponent in an actual fight they'd probably just accidentally impale themselves on the opponent's blade or trip over their own feet as they wound up their arms to swing their own weapon and fly into a tree or something. Only someone with insanely good reflexes or some method of enhancing their reflexes could use the jutsu in battle - such as an Uchiha with a good set of Sharingans for tracking and predicting movement (Straight Tomoe?), or a lightning user stimulating their nervous system with lightning release armor, or however Minato does it. (Reflex enhancing kekkei genkai? Using time-space ninjutsu to speed up his perception of the world? Just that badass? You decide!)
 
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