Naruto The Narutoversity
- Thread starter Knyght
- Start date
RE: The Naruversity
Dem pesky emotions.
Something I wanted to include in this but couldn't really figure out was Sasori's ammunition scrolls. Because that looks damn cool and probably has all kinds of possibility but I don't actually get what he's doing and how he pulled that off.
Dem pesky emotions.
Something I wanted to include in this but couldn't really figure out was Sasori's ammunition scrolls. Because that looks damn cool and probably has all kinds of possibility but I don't actually get what he's doing and how he pulled that off.
RE: The Naruversity
It looks like the scroll tore up when he finished using the flamethrowers. My guess is that the scroll is basically just a battery full of pre-transformed fire elemental chakra and he was draining that chakra to fuel the flamethrower. When the scroll ran out of chakra it just crumbled into scraps.
Since Sasori has no elemental affinities, he probably buys those scrolls from a black market shop or pays the other members of Akatsuki to craft them for him. Possibly the two scrolls he didn't get a chance to use were filled with more fire chakra for the flamethrowers. Or maybe they had different elements of chakra? I believe the anime also gave him water jet cutters which were fueled by the fourth scroll on his back. Maybe he could shoot lightning too.
It looks like the scroll tore up when he finished using the flamethrowers. My guess is that the scroll is basically just a battery full of pre-transformed fire elemental chakra and he was draining that chakra to fuel the flamethrower. When the scroll ran out of chakra it just crumbled into scraps.
Since Sasori has no elemental affinities, he probably buys those scrolls from a black market shop or pays the other members of Akatsuki to craft them for him. Possibly the two scrolls he didn't get a chance to use were filled with more fire chakra for the flamethrowers. Or maybe they had different elements of chakra? I believe the anime also gave him water jet cutters which were fueled by the fourth scroll on his back. Maybe he could shoot lightning too.
RE: The Naruversity
Well, the whole theme of Sasori was that he had basically done everything he could to throw away his humanity for power/his art, but ultimately, deep down, was still human. And then he lost because Chiyo took advantage of that humanity.
I guess it was supposed to be a contrast between him and Naruto and Gaara, two people perceived by some as less than human.
To be honest, I kind of wish that Naruto could have fought Sasori. Not only could a Kage Bunshin vs Puppets fight been pretty cool, but I think the theme that Kishi was going for could have been explored much further
Well, the whole theme of Sasori was that he had basically done everything he could to throw away his humanity for power/his art, but ultimately, deep down, was still human. And then he lost because Chiyo took advantage of that humanity.
I guess it was supposed to be a contrast between him and Naruto and Gaara, two people perceived by some as less than human.
To be honest, I kind of wish that Naruto could have fought Sasori. Not only could a Kage Bunshin vs Puppets fight been pretty cool, but I think the theme that Kishi was going for could have been explored much further
RE: The Naruversity
About Chikamatsu Monzaemon:
Because there are automatic puppets on the moon, the technology probably comes from the Ootsuki Clan; so he was either a Ootsuki descendant or he based his puppets on the reverse engineered remains of the autonomous puppets from the Six Path Sage age, and, unable to have them move independently, devised the Chakra String method to fuel and control them.
About Chikamatsu Monzaemon:
Because there are automatic puppets on the moon, the technology probably comes from the Ootsuki Clan; so he was either a Ootsuki descendant or he based his puppets on the reverse engineered remains of the autonomous puppets from the Six Path Sage age, and, unable to have them move independently, devised the Chakra String method to fuel and control them.
RE: The Naruversity
Just look at his Chikamatsu Collection puppets. They are dressed like members of the Ootsutsuki Clan, most of them have pale skin like like members of the Ootsutsuki clan, and two of them even have horns similar to those of the Ootsutsuki sages. They are definitely based off of Ootsutsuki technology.
Just look at his Chikamatsu Collection puppets. They are dressed like members of the Ootsutsuki Clan, most of them have pale skin like like members of the Ootsutsuki clan, and two of them even have horns similar to those of the Ootsutsuki sages. They are definitely based off of Ootsutsuki technology.
RE: The Naruversity
I dislike the Ootsutsuki too much to give that much credit. :evil3:
Regardless, I might as well go all out and include an entry for Ootsutsuki Puppetry.
I'm tempted to say that they only introduced that puppetry as an ancient form of threatre to humanity with it being traditional hobby of their clan or something. When they chose to make the moon their homeland, they decided to create a working force using puppets which led to their version of Puppet Jutsu.
Humans created their own Puppet Jutsu down the line completely independent from them. Though the design for Monzaemon's greatest puppets were based on a painting of a strange group of performers he once found when he studied the history of puppetry...
So the Puppet Jutsu originated from the clan in only an abstract sense.
Why wouldn't Sasori be able to use nature transformation? He still has his chakra after all and he's been around long enough to learn a few.
Though I've discovered that Kankuro used Sasori's flamethrower without any scrolls and not even possessing fire nature himself. Perhaps the scroll was literally just fuel so it could power some of Sasori's features that require chakra without needing to use up any of his existing chakra. So it's essentially a short-lived and much less efficient version of the Strength of a Hundred Seal.
Which reminds me that I should probably include something about Sasori's stamina in that entry.
I dislike the Ootsutsuki too much to give that much credit. :evil3:
Regardless, I might as well go all out and include an entry for Ootsutsuki Puppetry.
I'm tempted to say that they only introduced that puppetry as an ancient form of threatre to humanity with it being traditional hobby of their clan or something. When they chose to make the moon their homeland, they decided to create a working force using puppets which led to their version of Puppet Jutsu.
Humans created their own Puppet Jutsu down the line completely independent from them. Though the design for Monzaemon's greatest puppets were based on a painting of a strange group of performers he once found when he studied the history of puppetry...
So the Puppet Jutsu originated from the clan in only an abstract sense.
Why wouldn't Sasori be able to use nature transformation? He still has his chakra after all and he's been around long enough to learn a few.
Though I've discovered that Kankuro used Sasori's flamethrower without any scrolls and not even possessing fire nature himself. Perhaps the scroll was literally just fuel so it could power some of Sasori's features that require chakra without needing to use up any of his existing chakra. So it's essentially a short-lived and much less efficient version of the Strength of a Hundred Seal.
Which reminds me that I should probably include something about Sasori's stamina in that entry.
RE: The Naruversity
That makes sense to me. I mean, we haven't seen any Ootsutsuki use puppets directly in battle besides Toneri, and even he wasn't animating or directly controlling those puppets. They were powered by the Tenseigan.
So I can agree with having the Ootsutsuki invent chakra animated puppets in general, but it was earth-bound ninja who invented the chakra strings jutsu and pioneered the art of using puppets as weapons of war.
I dunno. Maybe he reasoned that every minute spent learning nature affinities was a minute not spent improving his puppet crafting skills? All I know for sure is that the fourth databook does not list any nature affinities for Sasori, so presumably he couldn't use any of them. I can only speculate as to why that is.
Makes sense to me. I suppose the puppet body itself probably has some kind of fuinjutsu array built in that converts the chakra to fire nature chakra, similar to how low ranked elemental jutsu can be performed using only handseals even if the user has not mastered the appropriate nature transformation skill. The flamethrowers are rather simple, they are just shooting the fire and not turning it into a homing dragon or anything. It's probably a relatively low ranked jutsu being supercharged by using lots of chakra. The scrolls were just batteries providing that chakra, and later on Kankuro was providing the chakra himself through the chakra strings.
That makes sense to me. I mean, we haven't seen any Ootsutsuki use puppets directly in battle besides Toneri, and even he wasn't animating or directly controlling those puppets. They were powered by the Tenseigan.
So I can agree with having the Ootsutsuki invent chakra animated puppets in general, but it was earth-bound ninja who invented the chakra strings jutsu and pioneered the art of using puppets as weapons of war.
I dunno. Maybe he reasoned that every minute spent learning nature affinities was a minute not spent improving his puppet crafting skills? All I know for sure is that the fourth databook does not list any nature affinities for Sasori, so presumably he couldn't use any of them. I can only speculate as to why that is.
Makes sense to me. I suppose the puppet body itself probably has some kind of fuinjutsu array built in that converts the chakra to fire nature chakra, similar to how low ranked elemental jutsu can be performed using only handseals even if the user has not mastered the appropriate nature transformation skill. The flamethrowers are rather simple, they are just shooting the fire and not turning it into a homing dragon or anything. It's probably a relatively low ranked jutsu being supercharged by using lots of chakra. The scrolls were just batteries providing that chakra, and later on Kankuro was providing the chakra himself through the chakra strings.
RE: The Naruversity
If Sasori had been given a blank nature chart then I'd agree but instead he is just one of the many characters who didn't have one at all. For instance Deidara, Kakuzu and Kurotsuchi don't have one either but we know they have multiple chakra natures. So there's nothing to say Sasori doesn't have any himself and no need to justify why.
Didn't you (and ankoku) state that that any elemental jutsu can cast regardless of whether the caster has nature transformation as long as they use all of the hand-seals? Sounds like you took the stance that I did here. Change of heart or memory lapse?
If Sasori had been given a blank nature chart then I'd agree but instead he is just one of the many characters who didn't have one at all. For instance Deidara, Kakuzu and Kurotsuchi don't have one either but we know they have multiple chakra natures. So there's nothing to say Sasori doesn't have any himself and no need to justify why.
Didn't you (and ankoku) state that that any elemental jutsu can cast regardless of whether the caster has nature transformation as long as they use all of the hand-seals? Sounds like you took the stance that I did here. Change of heart or memory lapse?
RE: The Naruversity
Huh, okay then. I wonder why those characters didn't get nature chart. That's really weird.
Although I do think it would kind of make sense for Sasori not to know any nature transformations considering that his whole gimmick is being a master of ninja tools and weapons, and the only normal ninjutsu he uses is the chakra threads.
Well yes that is my theory, but I also think that the number of handseals needed increases exponentially with the rank of the elemental jutsu. An A or S rank elemental jutsu might require hundreds or even thousands of hand seals to perform. So it's only practical to use lower rank elemental jutsu without mastering the corresponding nature transformation.
... I really should write a post about elemental nature transformation and elemental hand seals.
Huh, okay then. I wonder why those characters didn't get nature chart. That's really weird.
Although I do think it would kind of make sense for Sasori not to know any nature transformations considering that his whole gimmick is being a master of ninja tools and weapons, and the only normal ninjutsu he uses is the chakra threads.
Well yes that is my theory, but I also think that the number of handseals needed increases exponentially with the rank of the elemental jutsu. An A or S rank elemental jutsu might require hundreds or even thousands of hand seals to perform. So it's only practical to use lower rank elemental jutsu without mastering the corresponding nature transformation.
... I really should write a post about elemental nature transformation and elemental hand seals.
RE: The Naruversity
Not worth the effort presumably since they just had half-page profiles. Pity. He should have just listed them instead of using a space-consuming chart.
The real kicker is that even Lee got a nature chart and it was blank. And Tenten doesn't even get that much.
Could be. :sisi:
I'm just pointing out the lack of proof in either direction so it's really just a matter of opinion.
Indeed you should.
Not worth the effort presumably since they just had half-page profiles. Pity. He should have just listed them instead of using a space-consuming chart.
The real kicker is that even Lee got a nature chart and it was blank. And Tenten doesn't even get that much.
Could be. :sisi:
I'm just pointing out the lack of proof in either direction so it's really just a matter of opinion.
Indeed you should.
Adamantine Sealing Chains (Knyght)
Adamantine Sealing Chains (Official Version)
This is the oldest and most prized fuuinjutsu of the Uzumaki Clan which forges their chakra into incredibly durable physical chains.
These chains are able physically bind a target by wrapping around their form to restrict all movement or they can tear right through the target with the destructive force of their extension.
They are released from the wielder's body and their exact size, shape and length of those are chains are flexible, making them adaptable enough to suit their needs in any given situation. The end of the chain can be tipped with a spear-like blade to pierce through an obstacle, or a hammer-like club to strike with blunt force or a claw-like head to grab onto a target.
Being made from chakra, the chains move according to the wielder's will rather than any physical movements like a regular chain would be. So they can extend over great lengths and change directions at sharp angles to better entrap the target within their clutches.
It's possible for the chains to be used in other ways such as directly binding the target through physical touch. And they can act as a perimeter to create an impermeable barrier to keep enemies inside or out i.e. the Adamantine Sealing Barrier.
Uzumaki Kushina was one of the greatest masters of this jutsu, so innately talented with it that she learned it before she even left her homeland and became a genin. And she was born with special chakra that was capable of suppressing the power of the Tailed Beasts that made her the perfect candidate to become a Jinchuuriki.
Karin, a descendant of the now-decimated Uzumaki Clan, is the latest to possess the jutsu. She tried to learn it from her parents in her youth but was never able to master it. It wasn't until events during the Fourth Great Shinobi war drove her far enough that she was finally able to achieve it though she was only able to draw out a fragment of the jutsu's true strength. Nevertheless, it still proved to be a very powerful ability.
This is the oldest and most prized fuuinjutsu of the Uzumaki Clan which forges their chakra into incredibly durable physical chains.
These chains are able physically bind a target by wrapping around their form to restrict all movement or they can tear right through the target with the destructive force of their extension.
They are released from the wielder's body and their exact size, shape and length of those are chains are flexible, making them adaptable enough to suit their needs in any given situation. The end of the chain can be tipped with a spear-like blade to pierce through an obstacle, or a hammer-like club to strike with blunt force or a claw-like head to grab onto a target.
Being made from chakra, the chains move according to the wielder's will rather than any physical movements like a regular chain would be. So they can extend over great lengths and change directions at sharp angles to better entrap the target within their clutches.
It's possible for the chains to be used in other ways such as directly binding the target through physical touch. And they can act as a perimeter to create an impermeable barrier to keep enemies inside or out i.e. the Adamantine Sealing Barrier.
Uzumaki Kushina was one of the greatest masters of this jutsu, so innately talented with it that she learned it before she even left her homeland and became a genin. And she was born with special chakra that was capable of suppressing the power of the Tailed Beasts that made her the perfect candidate to become a Jinchuuriki.
Karin, a descendant of the now-decimated Uzumaki Clan, is the latest to possess the jutsu. She tried to learn it from her parents in her youth but was never able to master it. It wasn't until events during the Fourth Great Shinobi war drove her far enough that she was finally able to achieve it though she was only able to draw out a fragment of the jutsu's true strength. Nevertheless, it still proved to be a very powerful ability.
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Rope Escape Jutsu/Cloak of Invisibility Jutsu (Knyght)
Rope Escape Jutsu (Official Version)
This E-rank ninjutsu taught in the Ninja Academy is used to free a ninja when bound by ropes or wire. Their chakra flows into the knot and wears away at the material from the inside until it snaps. Whether or not a ninja can escape depends on the material, skill and method used to restrain them so it is far from a universal means of escape.
Cloak of Invisibility Jutsu (Official Version)
This E-rank ninjutsu taught in the Ninja Academy allows a ninja to take a cloak or a piece of cloth and cover the fabric with an optical illusion that gives it chameleon-like qualities. They hold the cloth over themselves so that they blend into their surroundings, almost as if they were invisible. Usually they will press them against a wall but as long as the cloth is large enough, they can use it to cover themselves entirely.
This E-rank ninjutsu taught in the Ninja Academy is used to free a ninja when bound by ropes or wire. Their chakra flows into the knot and wears away at the material from the inside until it snaps. Whether or not a ninja can escape depends on the material, skill and method used to restrain them so it is far from a universal means of escape.
Cloak of Invisibility Jutsu (Official Version)
This E-rank ninjutsu taught in the Ninja Academy allows a ninja to take a cloak or a piece of cloth and cover the fabric with an optical illusion that gives it chameleon-like qualities. They hold the cloth over themselves so that they blend into their surroundings, almost as if they were invisible. Usually they will press them against a wall but as long as the cloth is large enough, they can use it to cover themselves entirely.
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Mind's Eye of the Kagura/Karin's Healing Power (Knyght)
Mind's Eye of the Kagura (Official Version)
Karin is the greatest sensor of the modern era. Her ability to sense chakra is at such a level that it was officially identified by her village as a ninjutsu unique to her rather than a standard skill, named for the ceremonial dances performed by shrine maidens for divinations. Anyone can unconsciously sense chakra when it is close enough or in great enough quantities without needing to mould chakra, but Karin takes that to another level where she can sense distinctive chakra signature over significant distances without any conscious effort.
When she opens her inner eye, her superior perception is able to sense any and all chakra in a radius covering many kilometers, how many there are, the type of being it belongs to and whether a specific individual is present. She can judge the quality and quantity of a person's chakra as well as discern some understanding of their nature through the feel of their chakra. Even the fluctations caused by a person's dishonesty are detectable to her. On the few occasions where she engages in combat herself, Karin can easily track the movements of her enemy and predict their use of jutsu through the presence and changes in her chakra.
It was this very jutsu that allowed her to escape the destruction of her home and brought her to the attention of Orochimaru who did not fail to see the value of such a skill.
Karin's Healing Power (Official Version)
Karin's ability to heal others is not a jutsu or a Kekkei Genkai. It cannot truly be called a genetic ability either since it is not something she inherited or was born with. It is an effect that has been produced by Orochimaru's experiments on her body. He had never had the opportunity to experiment with the powerful bodies of the Uzumaki Clan before he got his hands on her.
An individual is able to heal themselves by biting her flesh hard enough to break skin, opening a connection between their chakra systems, and sucking her chakra into their body. That chakra significantly boosts the body's healing ability by orders of magnitude so that it can heal severe injuries within seconds. The artificial nature of the ability is clear in that Karin doesn't have that level of regeneration herself. She, too, needs to bite herself to heal her injuries as it is only when her chakra leaves her body in that fashion that it possesses those healing qualities.
It was a skill that he developed for the sake of his experiments so that his subjects could be healed from the most strenuous of experiments with her aid. The result was an ability that surpassed any standard medical ninjutsu.
Not being any sort of jutsu, this healing ability lacks an official name but Karin does sometimes like to think of it as the Blessed Life of the Shintai.
Karin is the greatest sensor of the modern era. Her ability to sense chakra is at such a level that it was officially identified by her village as a ninjutsu unique to her rather than a standard skill, named for the ceremonial dances performed by shrine maidens for divinations. Anyone can unconsciously sense chakra when it is close enough or in great enough quantities without needing to mould chakra, but Karin takes that to another level where she can sense distinctive chakra signature over significant distances without any conscious effort.
When she opens her inner eye, her superior perception is able to sense any and all chakra in a radius covering many kilometers, how many there are, the type of being it belongs to and whether a specific individual is present. She can judge the quality and quantity of a person's chakra as well as discern some understanding of their nature through the feel of their chakra. Even the fluctations caused by a person's dishonesty are detectable to her. On the few occasions where she engages in combat herself, Karin can easily track the movements of her enemy and predict their use of jutsu through the presence and changes in her chakra.
It was this very jutsu that allowed her to escape the destruction of her home and brought her to the attention of Orochimaru who did not fail to see the value of such a skill.
Karin's Healing Power (Official Version)
Karin's ability to heal others is not a jutsu or a Kekkei Genkai. It cannot truly be called a genetic ability either since it is not something she inherited or was born with. It is an effect that has been produced by Orochimaru's experiments on her body. He had never had the opportunity to experiment with the powerful bodies of the Uzumaki Clan before he got his hands on her.
An individual is able to heal themselves by biting her flesh hard enough to break skin, opening a connection between their chakra systems, and sucking her chakra into their body. That chakra significantly boosts the body's healing ability by orders of magnitude so that it can heal severe injuries within seconds. The artificial nature of the ability is clear in that Karin doesn't have that level of regeneration herself. She, too, needs to bite herself to heal her injuries as it is only when her chakra leaves her body in that fashion that it possesses those healing qualities.
It was a skill that he developed for the sake of his experiments so that his subjects could be healed from the most strenuous of experiments with her aid. The result was an ability that surpassed any standard medical ninjutsu.
Not being any sort of jutsu, this healing ability lacks an official name but Karin does sometimes like to think of it as the Blessed Life of the Shintai.
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Twelve Guardian Ninja of Fire (Knyght)
Twelve Guardian Ninja of Fire (Official Version)
This was a small group of elite shinobi that served and protected the Daimyo of the Land of Fire as his personal bodyguards, permanently living in the imperial palace with the royal family. They would constantly remain by the Daimyo's side to provide protection from any enemy or misfortune, no matter where they might be.
Most of the Guardians were descended from the samurai clans that served as the daimyo's vassals During the Warring States Era where shinobi gained prominence and became the strongest military force, these samurai adapted to the changing times by becoming ninja themselves and learning to art of ninjutsu to better protect their lord. Other Guardians were chakra-wielding warriors or ninja who saw no greatest honour than dedicating their lives to protecting their country's leader.
Even after the Hidden Village Era began, these Guardian Ninja remained as the Daimyo's greatest protectors. Not loyal to any established ninja village, it provided the Daimyo with a check against any Hokage that might decide to turn against him and a stalwart defence against assassins and kidnappers.
It wasn't until several decades had passed that an allowance was made. To deepen the relationships between the Daimyo and the ninja factions of his country, he sent an invitation for Sarutobi of the Hidden Leaf and Chiriku of the Fire Temple to join his ranks.
But this same Daimyo had the idea of using his bodyguards for personal missions that allowed him to act independent from Konoha despite them being in charge of the country's military affairs. In many ways it was because of Konoha's weakness after the Third Great Shinobi War and the following incidents that fostered the idea in his mind, believing that the village wasn't strong enough to protect him and his interests as well as it used to.
With the Daimyo directly commanding his own private shinobi force, the belief that he should rule the Land of Fire alone gained momentum. To the Guardians who thought that their country only needs one ruler, the Hokage seems an unnecessary role that stole power from the man who should be in charge. Only not all of them agreed with that or felt that being used for the Daimyo's personal missions was the right thing to do. Tension built within the group that boil over into an attempted revolution that started a civil war within their ranks. The coup d'etat was a failure and in fact ended in the death of the current Daimyo and several of the Guardians.
His son came to power as the new Daimyo who had no desire to dictate the military matters and was quite happy to leave bloodier affairs to the Hokage. To better the relationship between the country and its hidden village, he disbanded the Twelve Guardian Ninja to remove the problem at its root and then entrusted Konoha's shinobi with his protection.
Some say it was the leader of the rogue faction killed him with the hopes of installing a puppet daimyo and ruling the Fire Nation from the shadows. Others whisper that the previous daimyo supported the attempted coup-d'etat because he wanted sole control of the Fire Nation, and the Third Hokage had him assassinated in retribution. There are even rumors that the bounties on the heads of the surviving former members of the Twelve were placed there by wealthy supporters of the previous daimyo who blame them for his death.
Asuma, Chiriku and the other surviving Guardians returned to their homes, carrying back with them elite skills, monetary rewards and a great amount of prestige.
This was a small group of elite shinobi that served and protected the Daimyo of the Land of Fire as his personal bodyguards, permanently living in the imperial palace with the royal family. They would constantly remain by the Daimyo's side to provide protection from any enemy or misfortune, no matter where they might be.
Most of the Guardians were descended from the samurai clans that served as the daimyo's vassals During the Warring States Era where shinobi gained prominence and became the strongest military force, these samurai adapted to the changing times by becoming ninja themselves and learning to art of ninjutsu to better protect their lord. Other Guardians were chakra-wielding warriors or ninja who saw no greatest honour than dedicating their lives to protecting their country's leader.
Even after the Hidden Village Era began, these Guardian Ninja remained as the Daimyo's greatest protectors. Not loyal to any established ninja village, it provided the Daimyo with a check against any Hokage that might decide to turn against him and a stalwart defence against assassins and kidnappers.
It wasn't until several decades had passed that an allowance was made. To deepen the relationships between the Daimyo and the ninja factions of his country, he sent an invitation for Sarutobi of the Hidden Leaf and Chiriku of the Fire Temple to join his ranks.
But this same Daimyo had the idea of using his bodyguards for personal missions that allowed him to act independent from Konoha despite them being in charge of the country's military affairs. In many ways it was because of Konoha's weakness after the Third Great Shinobi War and the following incidents that fostered the idea in his mind, believing that the village wasn't strong enough to protect him and his interests as well as it used to.
With the Daimyo directly commanding his own private shinobi force, the belief that he should rule the Land of Fire alone gained momentum. To the Guardians who thought that their country only needs one ruler, the Hokage seems an unnecessary role that stole power from the man who should be in charge. Only not all of them agreed with that or felt that being used for the Daimyo's personal missions was the right thing to do. Tension built within the group that boil over into an attempted revolution that started a civil war within their ranks. The coup d'etat was a failure and in fact ended in the death of the current Daimyo and several of the Guardians.
His son came to power as the new Daimyo who had no desire to dictate the military matters and was quite happy to leave bloodier affairs to the Hokage. To better the relationship between the country and its hidden village, he disbanded the Twelve Guardian Ninja to remove the problem at its root and then entrusted Konoha's shinobi with his protection.
Some say it was the leader of the rogue faction killed him with the hopes of installing a puppet daimyo and ruling the Fire Nation from the shadows. Others whisper that the previous daimyo supported the attempted coup-d'etat because he wanted sole control of the Fire Nation, and the Third Hokage had him assassinated in retribution. There are even rumors that the bounties on the heads of the surviving former members of the Twelve were placed there by wealthy supporters of the previous daimyo who blame them for his death.
Asuma, Chiriku and the other surviving Guardians returned to their homes, carrying back with them elite skills, monetary rewards and a great amount of prestige.
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RE: The Naruversity
I like the idea that the Twelve Ninja Guardians are mostly made up of former samurai who converted to ninja and aren't loyal to any established ninja village. It provides the Daimyo with a check against any Hokage who decides they should be the one in charge of the entire nation. It would be far too easy to assassinate an uncooperative Daimyo if all his guards were loyal to the Kage.
Is it manga canon that the Twelve Ninja Guardians were disbanded/destroyed? Isn't that entirely an anime-only filler plot? I assumed that Chiriku and Asuma simply retired from the group after serving for a few tours. I mean, somebody has still got to be guarding the Daimyo, right?
Do you have any theories on why "anybody from the 'Twelve Ninja Guardsmen' has a bounty on his head"? Who hates the group enough to want everybody who ever served in the group dead, and also has a shit ton of money to put massive bounties on them all? Is it another major ninja village? Why do they hate the Twelve Ninja Guardians so much?
I like the idea that the Twelve Ninja Guardians are mostly made up of former samurai who converted to ninja and aren't loyal to any established ninja village. It provides the Daimyo with a check against any Hokage who decides they should be the one in charge of the entire nation. It would be far too easy to assassinate an uncooperative Daimyo if all his guards were loyal to the Kage.
Is it manga canon that the Twelve Ninja Guardians were disbanded/destroyed? Isn't that entirely an anime-only filler plot? I assumed that Chiriku and Asuma simply retired from the group after serving for a few tours. I mean, somebody has still got to be guarding the Daimyo, right?
Do you have any theories on why "anybody from the 'Twelve Ninja Guardsmen' has a bounty on his head"? Who hates the group enough to want everybody who ever served in the group dead, and also has a shit ton of money to put massive bounties on them all? Is it another major ninja village? Why do they hate the Twelve Ninja Guardians so much?
RE: The Naruversity
The third databook explicitly states that the group was disbanded. So there really could be a few living members scattered around the continent doing god knows what, though I went with the "everybody died" route here. Which, yeah, really does open up the question of who's protecting the daimyo on a day-to-day basis.
It also mentions that the ninja came from "all over the land" which is a bit of a headscratcher because where exactly are those other ninja coming from?
I expect all shinobi end up with a bounty on their heads by the time they become famous and powerful - of which the Twelve Guardian probably all qualified for - as it'd generally involve making and killing plenty of enemies along the way. It may not be that someone specifically put a bounty out for the entire group, just that all twelve of them had a bounty.
The third databook explicitly states that the group was disbanded. So there really could be a few living members scattered around the continent doing god knows what, though I went with the "everybody died" route here. Which, yeah, really does open up the question of who's protecting the daimyo on a day-to-day basis.
It also mentions that the ninja came from "all over the land" which is a bit of a headscratcher because where exactly are those other ninja coming from?
I expect all shinobi end up with a bounty on their heads by the time they become famous and powerful - of which the Twelve Guardian probably all qualified for - as it'd generally involve making and killing plenty of enemies along the way. It may not be that someone specifically put a bounty out for the entire group, just that all twelve of them had a bounty.
RE: The Naruversity
*looks at own copy of Third databook*
So it does. The entry is rather vague about the fate of those in the group, but it does seem to imply that most of the members are probably still alive though. Or at least, that they survived the disbanding of the group. I don't get the impression that Chiriku and Asuma were the only survivors.
That explanation does make sense, but that monk sure does make it sound like being a member of the Twelve Shinobi Guardians is specifically the reason Asuma and Chiriku have a bounty.
edit: Maybe there are still a few ninja clans and other chakra-using warriors in the Land of Fire that aren't affiliated with Konoha. Like the Fire Monks, or those former samurai you mentioned in your theory.
Maybe there are private dojos around that train chakra-using martial artists. They don't become money-grubbing mercenaries like the ninja and they aren't willing to go fight wars in foreign nations, but they might be willing to guard the life of the Daimyo. That's a pretty honorable job.
*looks at own copy of Third databook*
So it does. The entry is rather vague about the fate of those in the group, but it does seem to imply that most of the members are probably still alive though. Or at least, that they survived the disbanding of the group. I don't get the impression that Chiriku and Asuma were the only survivors.
That explanation does make sense, but that monk sure does make it sound like being a member of the Twelve Shinobi Guardians is specifically the reason Asuma and Chiriku have a bounty.
edit: Maybe there are still a few ninja clans and other chakra-using warriors in the Land of Fire that aren't affiliated with Konoha. Like the Fire Monks, or those former samurai you mentioned in your theory.
Maybe there are private dojos around that train chakra-using martial artists. They don't become money-grubbing mercenaries like the ninja and they aren't willing to go fight wars in foreign nations, but they might be willing to guard the life of the Daimyo. That's a pretty honorable job.
RE: The Naruversity
Which would be true if they gained a lot of that fame and power as the Twelve Guardian Ninja. So the bounty is something they all individually earned while working as Guardians but isn't actually because they're Guardians. If you know what I mean...
If not then you could basically point the finger at any non-ally of Konoha/the Land of Fire who'd be happy for bounty hunter to create some instability by removing its ruler's protectors.
I'm not really sure why the group would disband otherwise though. If there simply aren't enough members to sustain the group, and the reason made keeping the group around a lot less desirable in the first place, then it makes sense to get rid of it. Otherwise you'd think it'd still be ongoing. :hmm:
Which would be true if they gained a lot of that fame and power as the Twelve Guardian Ninja. So the bounty is something they all individually earned while working as Guardians but isn't actually because they're Guardians. If you know what I mean...
If not then you could basically point the finger at any non-ally of Konoha/the Land of Fire who'd be happy for bounty hunter to create some instability by removing its ruler's protectors.
I'm not really sure why the group would disband otherwise though. If there simply aren't enough members to sustain the group, and the reason made keeping the group around a lot less desirable in the first place, then it makes sense to get rid of it. Otherwise you'd think it'd still be ongoing. :hmm:
RE: The Naruversity
How would they gain a lot of fame and power as the Twelve Guardian Ninja though? They are just glorified bodyguards. They wouldn't have a lot of opportunities to kill and make enemies in that position unless the Daimyo is subject to a surprisingly large number of assassination attempts.
Unless... what if the Daimyo was actually using them as his own private elite ninja army and sending them on missions independent from the Hokage? I mean, he probably doesn't need twelve elite bodyguards all the time, right? That would be overkill most of the time, he'd be able to spare a few of them to run errands for him. That could explain why they would have huge bounties on their heads if the Daimyo was sending them out on his own personal S-rank missions. And it could explain why they were disbanded - the Hokage would very strongly object to being cut out of the loop on his nation's military affairs. The daimyo may have chosen to disband the group for political reasons to appease the Hokage, or perhaps he got some concessions from the Hokage in exchange.
How would they gain a lot of fame and power as the Twelve Guardian Ninja though? They are just glorified bodyguards. They wouldn't have a lot of opportunities to kill and make enemies in that position unless the Daimyo is subject to a surprisingly large number of assassination attempts.
Unless... what if the Daimyo was actually using them as his own private elite ninja army and sending them on missions independent from the Hokage? I mean, he probably doesn't need twelve elite bodyguards all the time, right? That would be overkill most of the time, he'd be able to spare a few of them to run errands for him. That could explain why they would have huge bounties on their heads if the Daimyo was sending them out on his own personal S-rank missions. And it could explain why they were disbanded - the Hokage would very strongly object to being cut out of the loop on his nation's military affairs. The daimyo may have chosen to disband the group for political reasons to appease the Hokage, or perhaps he got some concessions from the Hokage in exchange.
RE: The Naruversity
Well, the dangerous stuff doesn't always have to happen in Konoha itself. In the shinobi world, daimyo (and their families) probably are under semi-regular threat of assassination and kidnapping from foreign nations or even their own people. And then there could be particularly famous incident that acted as a major boost to the group's reputation.
But yeah, the daimyo could have been using his bodyguards for personal missions that he doesn't want others to know about which gave him independent autonomy. Just brainstorming now but perhaps this is even a direct result of Konoha's weakness in the aftermath of the Third Great Shinobi War and all its subsequent incidents (e.g. Nine-Tails Disaster/Hyuuga Affair/Uchiha Massacre) and he felt like the village wasn't strong enough to protect him and his interests as well as it used to.
Maybe not all of them agreed with being used like that while others thought that was okay. So there's tension within the group and between the daimyo and the Hokage. Maybe there's an incident there, maybe not.
Then that daimyo dies and this loser comes to power. Wanting to better the relationship between the country and its hidden village - or just leave bloodier matters in the Hokage's hand - he disbands the Twelve Guardian Ninja to remove the problem and leaves his protection to Konoha's shinobi.
Well, the dangerous stuff doesn't always have to happen in Konoha itself. In the shinobi world, daimyo (and their families) probably are under semi-regular threat of assassination and kidnapping from foreign nations or even their own people. And then there could be particularly famous incident that acted as a major boost to the group's reputation.
But yeah, the daimyo could have been using his bodyguards for personal missions that he doesn't want others to know about which gave him independent autonomy. Just brainstorming now but perhaps this is even a direct result of Konoha's weakness in the aftermath of the Third Great Shinobi War and all its subsequent incidents (e.g. Nine-Tails Disaster/Hyuuga Affair/Uchiha Massacre) and he felt like the village wasn't strong enough to protect him and his interests as well as it used to.
Maybe not all of them agreed with being used like that while others thought that was okay. So there's tension within the group and between the daimyo and the Hokage. Maybe there's an incident there, maybe not.
Then that daimyo dies and this loser comes to power. Wanting to better the relationship between the country and its hidden village - or just leave bloodier matters in the Hokage's hand - he disbands the Twelve Guardian Ninja to remove the problem and leaves his protection to Konoha's shinobi.
RE: The Naruversity
If you still want to use the anime canon, it would also give a decent explanation for the anime-only civil war within the ranks of the Twelve Guardian Shinobi. It would make a lot more sense for half of them to have believed the Hokage was unnecessary and plotted a coup-d'etat against him if the Daimyo was already directly commanding his own private shinobi force.
Perhaps there are also rumors that the previous daimyo's death is related to the Twelve Guardian Shinobi's failed revolution. Some say Kazuma killed him with the hopes of installing a puppet daimyo and ruling the Fire Nation from the shadows. Others whisper that the previous daimyo supported the attempted coup-d'etat because he wanted sole control of the Fire Nation, and the Third Hokage had him assassinated in retribution. There are even rumors that the bounties on the heads of the surviving former members of the Twelve were placed there by wealthy supporters of the previous daimyo who blame them for his death.
If you still want to use the anime canon, it would also give a decent explanation for the anime-only civil war within the ranks of the Twelve Guardian Shinobi. It would make a lot more sense for half of them to have believed the Hokage was unnecessary and plotted a coup-d'etat against him if the Daimyo was already directly commanding his own private shinobi force.
Perhaps there are also rumors that the previous daimyo's death is related to the Twelve Guardian Shinobi's failed revolution. Some say Kazuma killed him with the hopes of installing a puppet daimyo and ruling the Fire Nation from the shadows. Others whisper that the previous daimyo supported the attempted coup-d'etat because he wanted sole control of the Fire Nation, and the Third Hokage had him assassinated in retribution. There are even rumors that the bounties on the heads of the surviving former members of the Twelve were placed there by wealthy supporters of the previous daimyo who blame them for his death.