Naruto The Narutoversity
- Thread starter Knyght
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RE: The Naruversity
Just one of the many issues with Naruto Gaiden: We learn that Orochimaru had perfect grow-real-people-from-test-tubes cloning technology, and an unlimited supply of Sharingan thanks to using said cloning technology on Shin, and HE NEVER USED IT FOR ANYTHING. Why the fuck didn't he clone Kimimaro, possess the healthy clone body, and implant it with sharingans? Why didn't he turn his useless sound ninja mooks into a sharingan clone army?
Another issue: Where the fuck did Shin get a miniature version of the Juubi to be his minion, why the fuck is this never explained in any capacity, and why isn't anybody in the manga curious about those little fuckers? You'd think a miniature version of the godlike beast that nearly ended the world would be kind of terrifying and a major plot point but nobody cares about it.
Third issue: Why the fuck are Suigetsu and Juugo working for Orochimaru of their own free will? I guess I could see Karin going back to him after being rejected by Sasuke (she initially still wanted to keep guarding Orochimaru's prisoners even after learning he was dead so I guess she was a legit employee of his) but Suigetsu was a prisoner who was experimented upon who wanted to kill Orochimaru, and supposedly he once wanted to collect the seven swords of Hidden Mist. Juugo really should be following Sasuke around instead, Orochimaru never helped him and just used him to develop the cursed seal.
Just one of the many issues with Naruto Gaiden: We learn that Orochimaru had perfect grow-real-people-from-test-tubes cloning technology, and an unlimited supply of Sharingan thanks to using said cloning technology on Shin, and HE NEVER USED IT FOR ANYTHING. Why the fuck didn't he clone Kimimaro, possess the healthy clone body, and implant it with sharingans? Why didn't he turn his useless sound ninja mooks into a sharingan clone army?
Another issue: Where the fuck did Shin get a miniature version of the Juubi to be his minion, why the fuck is this never explained in any capacity, and why isn't anybody in the manga curious about those little fuckers? You'd think a miniature version of the godlike beast that nearly ended the world would be kind of terrifying and a major plot point but nobody cares about it.
Third issue: Why the fuck are Suigetsu and Juugo working for Orochimaru of their own free will? I guess I could see Karin going back to him after being rejected by Sasuke (she initially still wanted to keep guarding Orochimaru's prisoners even after learning he was dead so I guess she was a legit employee of his) but Suigetsu was a prisoner who was experimented upon who wanted to kill Orochimaru, and supposedly he once wanted to collect the seven swords of Hidden Mist. Juugo really should be following Sasuke around instead, Orochimaru never helped him and just used him to develop the cursed seal.
RE: The Naruversity
Cloning:
It's perfectly possible Orochimaru perfected this technology too late to clone Kimimaro, given his outlook on life HERE appears to be quite different than before.
Hell, maybe he WAS making Kimimaro clones, but they simply weren't still ready for body swap before. From what we see and are told, clones start from embryos and then age at natural speed.
There is also the fact Orochimaru wanted Kimimaro's body because it was strong enough to sustain Sage Mode: if Orochimaru did find a different way to get it(i.e.: Zetsu body), or simply lost interest there wouldn't be any reason for him to make one. Especially because Sasuke's body's would be much better.
Minibi:
We don't actually know it's related to Jubi. It might well be a pseudo-clone of sort.
Hawk re-joining Orochimaru:
We don't have the faintest idea on what happened in those over 10 years. It's therefore hard to say why they would re-join Orochimaru.
It's not really a plot-hole, as much as something that went unexplained because page-limit and it not being the point of the Gaiden.
Cloning:
It's perfectly possible Orochimaru perfected this technology too late to clone Kimimaro, given his outlook on life HERE appears to be quite different than before.
Hell, maybe he WAS making Kimimaro clones, but they simply weren't still ready for body swap before. From what we see and are told, clones start from embryos and then age at natural speed.
There is also the fact Orochimaru wanted Kimimaro's body because it was strong enough to sustain Sage Mode: if Orochimaru did find a different way to get it(i.e.: Zetsu body), or simply lost interest there wouldn't be any reason for him to make one. Especially because Sasuke's body's would be much better.
Minibi:
We don't actually know it's related to Jubi. It might well be a pseudo-clone of sort.
Hawk re-joining Orochimaru:
We don't have the faintest idea on what happened in those over 10 years. It's therefore hard to say why they would re-join Orochimaru.
It's not really a plot-hole, as much as something that went unexplained because page-limit and it not being the point of the Gaiden.
RE: The Naruversity
So, I had a thought about how Naruto was able to be revived via the sealing of Yin Kurama where Kushina couldn't just seal the Kyubi back inside her and live. It basically boils down to two theories.
1.) Kushina was dying not just from having Kurama extracted but the combined trauma of childbirth AND getting her Biju ripped out of her.
or 2.) The sealing of Yin Kurama wouldn't have actually revived Naruto. It was Obito using an variant of Rinne Tensei in addition to the introduction of the other Biju's chakra that allowed for Naruto's resurrection.
So, I had a thought about how Naruto was able to be revived via the sealing of Yin Kurama where Kushina couldn't just seal the Kyubi back inside her and live. It basically boils down to two theories.
1.) Kushina was dying not just from having Kurama extracted but the combined trauma of childbirth AND getting her Biju ripped out of her.
or 2.) The sealing of Yin Kurama wouldn't have actually revived Naruto. It was Obito using an variant of Rinne Tensei in addition to the introduction of the other Biju's chakra that allowed for Naruto's resurrection.
RE: The Naruversity
I think the critical difference was that Naruto had fully opened his seal prior to having Kurama extracted. Kurama was fully capable of breaking free and escaping (in fact he did take control of Naruto's body for one scene) but he had befriended Naruto and willingly stayed. The seal was just getting in the way of their teamwork at that point.
Compare that to Kushina's death. Kurama was still fully bound by the seal when Obito ripped it out. In fact it was even more strongly bound than it was in Naruto - the poor bastard was crucified and tied up with chains inside her seal rather than just locked in a cage.
Basically, my theory is that when Kurama was extracted from Kushina, Obito had the rip the whole seal out along with the bijuu. That caused lethal damage to her chakra circulatory system - she was bleeding out, in other words. Replacing the Kyuubi inside her body wouldn't have been enough to safe her life, she would also have needed someone like Tsunade around to repair her chakra system. Which is probably why her plan was to pull Kurama back inside her and force it die with her, rather than to just pull it back inside and reseal it.
Naruto, on the other hand, could be saved precisely because the seal was fully opened when Kurama was extracted. The bijuu was pulled out through the open door of the cage, metaphorically speaking. So no damage was done to his chakra circulatory system and simply placing part of the kyuubi back inside him was enough to fix everything.
I think the critical difference was that Naruto had fully opened his seal prior to having Kurama extracted. Kurama was fully capable of breaking free and escaping (in fact he did take control of Naruto's body for one scene) but he had befriended Naruto and willingly stayed. The seal was just getting in the way of their teamwork at that point.
Compare that to Kushina's death. Kurama was still fully bound by the seal when Obito ripped it out. In fact it was even more strongly bound than it was in Naruto - the poor bastard was crucified and tied up with chains inside her seal rather than just locked in a cage.
Basically, my theory is that when Kurama was extracted from Kushina, Obito had the rip the whole seal out along with the bijuu. That caused lethal damage to her chakra circulatory system - she was bleeding out, in other words. Replacing the Kyuubi inside her body wouldn't have been enough to safe her life, she would also have needed someone like Tsunade around to repair her chakra system. Which is probably why her plan was to pull Kurama back inside her and force it die with her, rather than to just pull it back inside and reseal it.
Naruto, on the other hand, could be saved precisely because the seal was fully opened when Kurama was extracted. The bijuu was pulled out through the open door of the cage, metaphorically speaking. So no damage was done to his chakra circulatory system and simply placing part of the kyuubi back inside him was enough to fix everything.
Kotoamatsukami (Knyght)
Oh look, an actual contribution. Feels like ages. Might be a few more historical details I'll be adding into this but I've covered the meat and bones of it here.
And yeah, I'm well aware of the other theory for this. I'm ignoring it.
Kotoamatsukami (Official Version)
Kotoamatsukami is a powerful but subtle mind-controlling genjutsu that belonged to the Mangekyou Sharingan of Uchiha Shisui. The Sharingan's eye of hypnosis holds the power to dominate the will of its target with that of the caster's at its highest level, suppressing the victim's consciousness to force them to do whatever the caster desires. Kotoamatsukami is that very ability taken to even greater heights.
It controls the target by implanting an idea into their mind and reshapes their thoughts and decisions with false experiences to make them believe that the idea is entirely their own. The victim would obey Shisui's command without realising they were being manipulated while perfectly rationialising their future decisions based that implanted thought. Kotoamatsukami is not even an ongoing genjutsu; it takes only seconds for the illusion to warp the victim's mind to follow the caster's bidding after it has been activated. Once the command takes the root, the jutsu ends without leaving any trace of its existence within their chakra system to detect or counter, so the caster does not need to remain nearby to maintain it at all. And unlike practically all other genjutsu cast by the Sharingan, eye contact is not a necessary requirement to effect an individual. As long as they are within the eye's line of sight, they are a potential target.
A hated enemy could become a beloved friend, a just ruler could destroy his own country, a holy man could commit the deepest debaucheries and a brave hero could become the worst of all villains. For all that it lacks the destructive power of so many other jutsu, in the right hands it could easily change the world.
But, like every jutsu, it does have its weaknesses. It is possible for the victim to overcome its manipulation if they are faced with enough reason to believe that the implanted command is wrong and shouldn't be followed. Because the genjutsu is not sustainable, it is not continually overwriting the victim's will with the caster's, making them able to change their mind after it has first been cast. In fact the strongest defence against Kotoamatsukami is to recognize that it is controlling your thoughts and actions then deliberately act in opposition to those beliefs. The problem is that this sounds far easier than it actually is because it is so difficult to recognize that the genjutsu has ever been placed and the victim needs to genuinely believe that their actions have been dictated by it.
Another is that the caster cannot truly control how the command is carried out by the victim. They may be influenced by the caster's intentions but exactly how the act upon it depends on the type of person they are and what skills and choices are available to them. Manipulating someone to, for instance, steal a treasured object could easily lead to them steal many other treasures at the same time, killing everyone who gets in the way and destroying whatever's left behind
Another consideration is how far the command forces the individual to act in a way that would contradict their natural choices. If the command is something that the individual could realistically have chosen themselves with a strong rationale then it is all the more easier for the manipulation to occur without ever being detect. However if its run completely contrary to their natural choices then the discrepancy will be all the more glaring; it wouldn't actually stop the victim but it would make it more likely for the manipulation to be discovered and, potentially, counter. What could happen depends on the individual and the situation.
The most obvious weakness of the jutsu is the cost of its usage. Once Kotoamatsukami has been used, it cannot be activated from that eye again for ten years. Shisui first awakened his Mangekyou Sharingan at a young age as a member of Root but having died in his twenties, he never even had the chance to use the jutsu more than four times in total. He made up for that fact by using it to great effect when the opportunity was available.
Kotoamatsukami can be cast from both eyes simultaneously as well which creates an effect far greater than the sum of its parts. But this would naturally mean that both eyes would be unable to activate the jutsu for ten years. When both eyes are used on a single individual, the command implanted within their mind becomes completely unrelenting. It warps every thought, emotion and memory until that idea becomes the very centre of the victim's being, an obsession that cannot be restrained or stopped until they follow it through.
Another way both eyes can be used is to cast the genjutsu on multiplate individuals at once. Instead of only being able to effect a single person, the caster control everyone within their line of sight with an implanted command. It is limited to only one command which is shared by all of those caught under its effect but it does mean that there are a group of people all working towards a single goal, who can even be made to work together to accomplish that goal, which can make it far easier to carry.
It was this incredible effect that Shisui had been biding his time for. He had been waiting until he could activate Kotoamatsukami in both eyes to bring an end to the Uchiha's rebellion before it began. On the day that he died, Shisui would have been at the meeting which the most important Uchiha would have attended and then cast his genjutsu upon them all.
But Shimura Danzo knew of this power and couldn't trust that Shisui wouldn't use that power against Konoha to aid his clan. Danzo stole one of the Shisui's eyes and used it for himself, experimenting with the Hashirama's incredibly powerfuls cells and chakra to reduce the cooldown effect until he could use it on daily basis. The other eye was given to Itachi, the boy he loved and trusted like a brother, but couldn't be used for another ten years as Shisui had used its power to escape from Danzo and his men after losing the other.
And yeah, I'm well aware of the other theory for this. I'm ignoring it.
Kotoamatsukami (Official Version)
Kotoamatsukami is a powerful but subtle mind-controlling genjutsu that belonged to the Mangekyou Sharingan of Uchiha Shisui. The Sharingan's eye of hypnosis holds the power to dominate the will of its target with that of the caster's at its highest level, suppressing the victim's consciousness to force them to do whatever the caster desires. Kotoamatsukami is that very ability taken to even greater heights.
It controls the target by implanting an idea into their mind and reshapes their thoughts and decisions with false experiences to make them believe that the idea is entirely their own. The victim would obey Shisui's command without realising they were being manipulated while perfectly rationialising their future decisions based that implanted thought. Kotoamatsukami is not even an ongoing genjutsu; it takes only seconds for the illusion to warp the victim's mind to follow the caster's bidding after it has been activated. Once the command takes the root, the jutsu ends without leaving any trace of its existence within their chakra system to detect or counter, so the caster does not need to remain nearby to maintain it at all. And unlike practically all other genjutsu cast by the Sharingan, eye contact is not a necessary requirement to effect an individual. As long as they are within the eye's line of sight, they are a potential target.
A hated enemy could become a beloved friend, a just ruler could destroy his own country, a holy man could commit the deepest debaucheries and a brave hero could become the worst of all villains. For all that it lacks the destructive power of so many other jutsu, in the right hands it could easily change the world.
But, like every jutsu, it does have its weaknesses. It is possible for the victim to overcome its manipulation if they are faced with enough reason to believe that the implanted command is wrong and shouldn't be followed. Because the genjutsu is not sustainable, it is not continually overwriting the victim's will with the caster's, making them able to change their mind after it has first been cast. In fact the strongest defence against Kotoamatsukami is to recognize that it is controlling your thoughts and actions then deliberately act in opposition to those beliefs. The problem is that this sounds far easier than it actually is because it is so difficult to recognize that the genjutsu has ever been placed and the victim needs to genuinely believe that their actions have been dictated by it.
Another is that the caster cannot truly control how the command is carried out by the victim. They may be influenced by the caster's intentions but exactly how the act upon it depends on the type of person they are and what skills and choices are available to them. Manipulating someone to, for instance, steal a treasured object could easily lead to them steal many other treasures at the same time, killing everyone who gets in the way and destroying whatever's left behind
Another consideration is how far the command forces the individual to act in a way that would contradict their natural choices. If the command is something that the individual could realistically have chosen themselves with a strong rationale then it is all the more easier for the manipulation to occur without ever being detect. However if its run completely contrary to their natural choices then the discrepancy will be all the more glaring; it wouldn't actually stop the victim but it would make it more likely for the manipulation to be discovered and, potentially, counter. What could happen depends on the individual and the situation.
The most obvious weakness of the jutsu is the cost of its usage. Once Kotoamatsukami has been used, it cannot be activated from that eye again for ten years. Shisui first awakened his Mangekyou Sharingan at a young age as a member of Root but having died in his twenties, he never even had the chance to use the jutsu more than four times in total. He made up for that fact by using it to great effect when the opportunity was available.
Kotoamatsukami can be cast from both eyes simultaneously as well which creates an effect far greater than the sum of its parts. But this would naturally mean that both eyes would be unable to activate the jutsu for ten years. When both eyes are used on a single individual, the command implanted within their mind becomes completely unrelenting. It warps every thought, emotion and memory until that idea becomes the very centre of the victim's being, an obsession that cannot be restrained or stopped until they follow it through.
Another way both eyes can be used is to cast the genjutsu on multiplate individuals at once. Instead of only being able to effect a single person, the caster control everyone within their line of sight with an implanted command. It is limited to only one command which is shared by all of those caught under its effect but it does mean that there are a group of people all working towards a single goal, who can even be made to work together to accomplish that goal, which can make it far easier to carry.
It was this incredible effect that Shisui had been biding his time for. He had been waiting until he could activate Kotoamatsukami in both eyes to bring an end to the Uchiha's rebellion before it began. On the day that he died, Shisui would have been at the meeting which the most important Uchiha would have attended and then cast his genjutsu upon them all.
But Shimura Danzo knew of this power and couldn't trust that Shisui wouldn't use that power against Konoha to aid his clan. Danzo stole one of the Shisui's eyes and used it for himself, experimenting with the Hashirama's incredibly powerfuls cells and chakra to reduce the cooldown effect until he could use it on daily basis. The other eye was given to Itachi, the boy he loved and trusted like a brother, but couldn't be used for another ten years as Shisui had used its power to escape from Danzo and his men after losing the other.
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RE: The Naruversity
A hypothesis: Kotoamatsukami's cooldown depends on the strength of the suggestion. At its strongest it takes ten years to recharge but it's a complete and perfect brainwashing, capable to turn one's mind 180° in one instant.
Danzou could use it once a day because hashirama steroids and the fact he used the lowest setting, channelling it to "nudge" an idea already there.
It was likely the setting most used by Shisui, as nudging the idea of dodging "left" instead of "right" is usually more than enough in a fight, and would tie with people knowing.
I'm going to guess Shisui's natural cooldown for the lowest level Kotoamatsukami was 2-to-a-few days, nothing more.
This would also explain how people could know about the 10-years cooldown: they did calculate it from the cooldowns of lower settings Kotos
A hypothesis: Kotoamatsukami's cooldown depends on the strength of the suggestion. At its strongest it takes ten years to recharge but it's a complete and perfect brainwashing, capable to turn one's mind 180° in one instant.
Danzou could use it once a day because hashirama steroids and the fact he used the lowest setting, channelling it to "nudge" an idea already there.
It was likely the setting most used by Shisui, as nudging the idea of dodging "left" instead of "right" is usually more than enough in a fight, and would tie with people knowing.
I'm going to guess Shisui's natural cooldown for the lowest level Kotoamatsukami was 2-to-a-few days, nothing more.
This would also explain how people could know about the 10-years cooldown: they did calculate it from the cooldowns of lower settings Kotos
RE: The Naruversity
I think people underestimate Shisui's age and overestimate how well known Kotoamatsukami is. Really, the ten year cooldown tells us that Shisui likely a fair few years older than Itachi, probably dying somewere in his twenties. Being close friends despite the age gap doesn't strike me as a big deal, especially given Itachi's maturity, and we know little of their relationship's history.
Ao was the first to mention Kotoamatsukami and had personal experience with fighting Shisui while everyone else appeared ignorant of it altogether, Danzo simply mentions that he can't use it that many times in a day, Kabuto recognizes it which is no surprise when he knows so many about dojutsu, and then Itachi was the first person to ever mention the ten year cool down which he would have learned from Shisui directly. Generally, Shisui is recognized as the Uchiha's most powerful genjutsu user but his strongest genjutsu doesn't seem to be widespread knowledge.
Anywho, went back and beefed up my theory now that I'm more awake.
I think people underestimate Shisui's age and overestimate how well known Kotoamatsukami is. Really, the ten year cooldown tells us that Shisui likely a fair few years older than Itachi, probably dying somewere in his twenties. Being close friends despite the age gap doesn't strike me as a big deal, especially given Itachi's maturity, and we know little of their relationship's history.
Ao was the first to mention Kotoamatsukami and had personal experience with fighting Shisui while everyone else appeared ignorant of it altogether, Danzo simply mentions that he can't use it that many times in a day, Kabuto recognizes it which is no surprise when he knows so many about dojutsu, and then Itachi was the first person to ever mention the ten year cool down which he would have learned from Shisui directly. Generally, Shisui is recognized as the Uchiha's most powerful genjutsu user but his strongest genjutsu doesn't seem to be widespread knowledge.
Anywho, went back and beefed up my theory now that I'm more awake.
RE: The Naruversity
Personally, I really don't like the idea that Hashirama's DNA can reduce the cooldown of Shisui's Mangekyou Sharingan by ~99.97% That's just a little bit ridiculous, don't you think? I can accept Hashirama's DNA preventing the eventual blindness caused by overusing the Mangekyou and grant the user access to Izanagi, but also improving the effectiveness of the user's other Mangekyou jutsu by two orders of magnitude is too much. It breaks my suspension of disbelief. Would other Mangekyou jutsu also be improved to that immensely vast of a degree? If Itachi had Hashirama's DNA, could he trap someone inside Tsukiyomi for 30 virtual years? Would anything ignited by Amaterasu burn for 70 years?
I'd rather belief that Kotoamatsukami has a variable cooldown and Itachi only mentioned 10 years because that's the maximum and he knew the brainwashing command he preset for Shisui's eye required using the jutsu at full power.
Personally, I really don't like the idea that Hashirama's DNA can reduce the cooldown of Shisui's Mangekyou Sharingan by ~99.97% That's just a little bit ridiculous, don't you think? I can accept Hashirama's DNA preventing the eventual blindness caused by overusing the Mangekyou and grant the user access to Izanagi, but also improving the effectiveness of the user's other Mangekyou jutsu by two orders of magnitude is too much. It breaks my suspension of disbelief. Would other Mangekyou jutsu also be improved to that immensely vast of a degree? If Itachi had Hashirama's DNA, could he trap someone inside Tsukiyomi for 30 virtual years? Would anything ignited by Amaterasu burn for 70 years?
I'd rather belief that Kotoamatsukami has a variable cooldown and Itachi only mentioned 10 years because that's the maximum and he knew the brainwashing command he preset for Shisui's eye required using the jutsu at full power.
RE: The Naruversity
Deus Ex Hashirama only improves the jutsu in the sense that it reduces the cost rather than actually making it better. Danzo can't use Kotoamatsukami better than Shisui - possibly not even as well - but he can use it more often. Itachi wouldn't be able to trap someone in Tsukuyomi for 30 years but he'd be able to trap someone for 3 virtual days, then another and another as often as he wanted without going blind. Allowing Kotoamatsukami to be used at least once a day doesn't seem that much worse than seemingly allowing Obito to use the Kamui an unlimited number of times.
I'd be more open towards the idea if we hadn't flat out been given a time limit. We're just told straight up that it's 10+ years unless Hashirama's chakra is involved as proven by Danzo, not that it can take 10 years or take up to 10 years. And nudging thing sounds more like plain old (Sharingan) genjutsu than its perfected big brother.
Deus Ex Hashirama only improves the jutsu in the sense that it reduces the cost rather than actually making it better. Danzo can't use Kotoamatsukami better than Shisui - possibly not even as well - but he can use it more often. Itachi wouldn't be able to trap someone in Tsukuyomi for 30 years but he'd be able to trap someone for 3 virtual days, then another and another as often as he wanted without going blind. Allowing Kotoamatsukami to be used at least once a day doesn't seem that much worse than seemingly allowing Obito to use the Kamui an unlimited number of times.
I'd be more open towards the idea if we hadn't flat out been given a time limit. We're just told straight up that it's 10+ years unless Hashirama's chakra is involved as proven by Danzo, not that it can take 10 years or take up to 10 years. And nudging thing sounds more like plain old (Sharingan) genjutsu than its perfected big brother.
RE: The Naruversity
Given how young Itachi was when he first went to war, it's likely the ten years time limit isn't a random guess but something he knows for a fact. As in, he saw Shisui using the jutsu and for the next ten years the guy was "Still can't use it."
Then Danzo probably gave him some Senjuu stuff and he was all like "Fuck yeah!"
Given how young Itachi was when he first went to war, it's likely the ten years time limit isn't a random guess but something he knows for a fact. As in, he saw Shisui using the jutsu and for the next ten years the guy was "Still can't use it."
Then Danzo probably gave him some Senjuu stuff and he was all like "Fuck yeah!"
RE: The Naruversity
What I still don't understand is how Danzou isn't ruling the Fire Nation when he has a supposedly irresistible, undetectable mind control genjutsu that can be used daily. Or at least why he didn't use it to become Hokage immediately after Hiruzen died.
Although actually, is Kotoamatsukami even all that powerful when Danzou uses it? I mean, Mifune was freed from the mind control just by someone pointing out to him that it had been used on him. That's pretty weaksauce mind control if simply being aware of it is enough to counter it. Would the jutsu even have worked on Sasuke or Obito (who were both aware that Danzou had access to the jutsu) if Danzou had lived long enough to try it?
Hmmm. Perhaps the power (and possibly cooldown) of Kotoamatsukami is significantly reduced if activated by a non-Uchiha. An outsider simply can't access the full potential of the jutsu using a transplanted Sharingan.
What I still don't understand is how Danzou isn't ruling the Fire Nation when he has a supposedly irresistible, undetectable mind control genjutsu that can be used daily. Or at least why he didn't use it to become Hokage immediately after Hiruzen died.
Although actually, is Kotoamatsukami even all that powerful when Danzou uses it? I mean, Mifune was freed from the mind control just by someone pointing out to him that it had been used on him. That's pretty weaksauce mind control if simply being aware of it is enough to counter it. Would the jutsu even have worked on Sasuke or Obito (who were both aware that Danzou had access to the jutsu) if Danzou had lived long enough to try it?
Hmmm. Perhaps the power (and possibly cooldown) of Kotoamatsukami is significantly reduced if activated by a non-Uchiha. An outsider simply can't access the full potential of the jutsu using a transplanted Sharingan.
RE: The Naruversity
It's either:
a. the invincible mind-rewiring Kotoamatsukami was usable only with the Left Eye, and Danzou didn't have that
b. Danzou preferred to use the "suggestion" setting of Kotoamatsukami as it was much more subtler than having people to have a sudden 180° change of heart, as well as he could use it much more often and was therefore much more useful on the long run
We also don't actually know WHEN he got the Sharingarm from Orochimaru
Also, Mifune wasn't freed by the effect of Kotoamatsukami. Danzou used to implant the SUGGESTION "Danzou is the best candidate". It's undetectable by the user because it's not continued and works itself as one's own idea.
It's either:
a. the invincible mind-rewiring Kotoamatsukami was usable only with the Left Eye, and Danzou didn't have that
b. Danzou preferred to use the "suggestion" setting of Kotoamatsukami as it was much more subtler than having people to have a sudden 180° change of heart, as well as he could use it much more often and was therefore much more useful on the long run
We also don't actually know WHEN he got the Sharingarm from Orochimaru
Also, Mifune wasn't freed by the effect of Kotoamatsukami. Danzou used to implant the SUGGESTION "Danzou is the best candidate". It's undetectable by the user because it's not continued and works itself as one's own idea.
Flying Thunder God Jutsu (Knyght)
Flying Thunder God Jutsu (Official Version)
Space-time ninjutsu surpasses the concept of space and distance, allowing one move instantaneously from one location to another marked with a jutsu formula without physically occupying the space in between. The Summoning Jutsu is the oldest and most well-known example and is used to summon animals, people and objects to the caster.
The Flying Thunder God Jutsu was the first space-time ninjutsu that lets the user summon themselves to another location instead of summoning others, and doesn't originate from the bloodline of the Sage of Six Paths are capable of the same.
The first part of the jutsu is to mark a location with the jutsu-formula that serves as the destination marker for the ninja. Forged from their chakra, it is an anchor that binds them to their original world to prevent them being lost as they jump between dimensions. The second, more difficult part of the jutsu is for the ninja to use their chakra to jump though space and time outside of their dimensions into a substance and then return to the marked location. The moment they disappear from one location is the moment they reappear somewhere else. This teleportation is also ble to affect anything that is in contact with the user or connected to their chakra, meaning that they can teleport other objects or people, and the size of the object dictates the amount of chakra required.
The jutsu has a suprisingly low chakra cost given its ranking because the caster is transporting themselves rather than another object or entity, giving it a large number of uses. Its S-ranking comes from the complex transformation of chakra used to manipulate the space-time continuum that makes it incredibly difficult to learn and use. And even if one was to learn to use it, most would not have the reflexes and reaction time to be able to use it to its maximum potetial in combat. Only two shinobi in history have ever learned it and that they could use it without a single hand-seals speaks highly of their abilities.
It was invented by the Second Hokage, Senju Tobirama, in his pursuit of fighting styles best suited to combat the Uchiha Clan as a space-time jutsu renders their Sharingan's precognition meaningless. Tobirama was known as the fastest shinobi of his era for being able to travel instaneously, using the jutsu both in and out of the battlefield to great effect. He would often mark his opponent with a jutsu-formula while engaging them in close combat to provide him with an inescapable advantage as he could teleport from anywhere directly into their personal space to attack, overwhelming them with attacks from any and all angles. Even if he couldn't mark them directly, he could add the easy-to-miss formula to his own weapons during the fight and transport himself using their locations instead. Unfortunately, Tobirama was limited in how many jutsu-formulas he could maintain at once and could only last for a certain length of time which meant that he was better of only creating his markings during the battle itself then removing them afterwards.
The jutsu was then learned and perfected by the Fourth Hokage, Namikaze Minato, who refined its ability to traverse space-time to improve its effectiveness. As a result, the jutsu-formula he creates differs significantly from Tobirama's in design to reflect the changes he made for the jutsu; this version is permanent unless physically destroyed or removed by Minato and he can create and maintain many more of them simultaneously. This was a crucial part of his Minato's signature tactic which was to throw his marked kunai all over the battlefield to transport himself wherever he needed to be whenever he needed to, and the sheer threat that he could travel to the heart of the enemy's territory using that small marking earned him a fearsome reputation. Minato's greater understanding of space-time ninjutsu from his efforts even allowed him to create several other jutsu based on the concept.
Related Jutsu
Flying Thunder God Slash - Tobirama marks his opponent with a jutsu-formula, uses teleportation to enter their blind spot and, faster than the eye can see, thrust his blade into their vitals. It is the ideal assassination jutsu.
Flying Thunder God Mutually Instaneous Revolving Jutsu - This jutsu was designed to be used in conjunction with the Shadow Clone Jutsu. As the shadow clones are made from and connected to Tobirama's chakra, he could strike one of his own clones which would trade places with another in contact with his enemy to turn it into the victim in a way it cannot defend against.
Flying Thunder God Dance - Minato throws six kunai around his enemy and uses them to instantly teleport from one to another faster than his opponent can keep track of it. Being hounded by one of the fastest men alive from ever side guarantees an opening in the enemy's defences for Minato to capitalize on with a lethal strike, usually in the form of the Rasengan. Technically it was named the Spiralling Flash Super Round Dance Howl Style Three but Minato, its creator, is the person willing to call it that.
Flying Thunder God: Second Step - This is the next step up from the Flying Thunder God Jutsu which transports Minato to a jutsu-formula that is in motion instead of fixed to one location. He throws his kunai at his opponent and teleports to it while it is still in flight to vanish from the opponent's eyes and strike at them from an unexpected angle.
Flying Thunder God: Guiding Thunder - This is a space-time barrier jutsu based on the Flying Thunder God Jutsu. Using one of his tagged kunai, Minato opens a tear in space-time which instantaneously sucks in an incoming attack and transfers it to another location marked with the jutsu-formula. Minato can create the tear anywhere within his immediate vicinity and its size can vary to accommodate the size of the attack used against him or others The jutsu is especially dangerous when he chooses to transport it to a person that he has tagged instead of a kunai, meaning that the target has no way of expecting the attack or defending themselves.
Flying Thunder Formation - This is an alternate version of the Flying Thunder God Jutsu meant to enable lesser shinobi, ones unable to learn the S-rank ninjutsu themselves, to accomplish the same effect. It requires three casters who made a circle and each perform the seal of confrontation to link them together. They then break down the complex chakra transformation required to traverse space-time into three parts with each member handling one part in unison with the other, like how Naruto would use a pair of clones to create the Wind Release: Rasen Shuriken. Doing so allows them to transport themselves and/or anything inside the inside the confines of the ring to a marked destination. Minato invented the jutsu and taught it to the Hokage Guard Platoon, a team of three special jounin that he put together. Their purpose is to come to his aid in an emergency (possibly with other allies when needed) or protect an important target designated by the Fourth by transporting them away with the danger zone.
Space-time ninjutsu surpasses the concept of space and distance, allowing one move instantaneously from one location to another marked with a jutsu formula without physically occupying the space in between. The Summoning Jutsu is the oldest and most well-known example and is used to summon animals, people and objects to the caster.
The Flying Thunder God Jutsu was the first space-time ninjutsu that lets the user summon themselves to another location instead of summoning others, and doesn't originate from the bloodline of the Sage of Six Paths are capable of the same.
The first part of the jutsu is to mark a location with the jutsu-formula that serves as the destination marker for the ninja. Forged from their chakra, it is an anchor that binds them to their original world to prevent them being lost as they jump between dimensions. The second, more difficult part of the jutsu is for the ninja to use their chakra to jump though space and time outside of their dimensions into a substance and then return to the marked location. The moment they disappear from one location is the moment they reappear somewhere else. This teleportation is also ble to affect anything that is in contact with the user or connected to their chakra, meaning that they can teleport other objects or people, and the size of the object dictates the amount of chakra required.
The jutsu has a suprisingly low chakra cost given its ranking because the caster is transporting themselves rather than another object or entity, giving it a large number of uses. Its S-ranking comes from the complex transformation of chakra used to manipulate the space-time continuum that makes it incredibly difficult to learn and use. And even if one was to learn to use it, most would not have the reflexes and reaction time to be able to use it to its maximum potetial in combat. Only two shinobi in history have ever learned it and that they could use it without a single hand-seals speaks highly of their abilities.
It was invented by the Second Hokage, Senju Tobirama, in his pursuit of fighting styles best suited to combat the Uchiha Clan as a space-time jutsu renders their Sharingan's precognition meaningless. Tobirama was known as the fastest shinobi of his era for being able to travel instaneously, using the jutsu both in and out of the battlefield to great effect. He would often mark his opponent with a jutsu-formula while engaging them in close combat to provide him with an inescapable advantage as he could teleport from anywhere directly into their personal space to attack, overwhelming them with attacks from any and all angles. Even if he couldn't mark them directly, he could add the easy-to-miss formula to his own weapons during the fight and transport himself using their locations instead. Unfortunately, Tobirama was limited in how many jutsu-formulas he could maintain at once and could only last for a certain length of time which meant that he was better of only creating his markings during the battle itself then removing them afterwards.
The jutsu was then learned and perfected by the Fourth Hokage, Namikaze Minato, who refined its ability to traverse space-time to improve its effectiveness. As a result, the jutsu-formula he creates differs significantly from Tobirama's in design to reflect the changes he made for the jutsu; this version is permanent unless physically destroyed or removed by Minato and he can create and maintain many more of them simultaneously. This was a crucial part of his Minato's signature tactic which was to throw his marked kunai all over the battlefield to transport himself wherever he needed to be whenever he needed to, and the sheer threat that he could travel to the heart of the enemy's territory using that small marking earned him a fearsome reputation. Minato's greater understanding of space-time ninjutsu from his efforts even allowed him to create several other jutsu based on the concept.
Related Jutsu
Flying Thunder God Slash - Tobirama marks his opponent with a jutsu-formula, uses teleportation to enter their blind spot and, faster than the eye can see, thrust his blade into their vitals. It is the ideal assassination jutsu.
Flying Thunder God Mutually Instaneous Revolving Jutsu - This jutsu was designed to be used in conjunction with the Shadow Clone Jutsu. As the shadow clones are made from and connected to Tobirama's chakra, he could strike one of his own clones which would trade places with another in contact with his enemy to turn it into the victim in a way it cannot defend against.
Flying Thunder God Dance - Minato throws six kunai around his enemy and uses them to instantly teleport from one to another faster than his opponent can keep track of it. Being hounded by one of the fastest men alive from ever side guarantees an opening in the enemy's defences for Minato to capitalize on with a lethal strike, usually in the form of the Rasengan. Technically it was named the Spiralling Flash Super Round Dance Howl Style Three but Minato, its creator, is the person willing to call it that.
Flying Thunder God: Second Step - This is the next step up from the Flying Thunder God Jutsu which transports Minato to a jutsu-formula that is in motion instead of fixed to one location. He throws his kunai at his opponent and teleports to it while it is still in flight to vanish from the opponent's eyes and strike at them from an unexpected angle.
Flying Thunder God: Guiding Thunder - This is a space-time barrier jutsu based on the Flying Thunder God Jutsu. Using one of his tagged kunai, Minato opens a tear in space-time which instantaneously sucks in an incoming attack and transfers it to another location marked with the jutsu-formula. Minato can create the tear anywhere within his immediate vicinity and its size can vary to accommodate the size of the attack used against him or others The jutsu is especially dangerous when he chooses to transport it to a person that he has tagged instead of a kunai, meaning that the target has no way of expecting the attack or defending themselves.
Flying Thunder Formation - This is an alternate version of the Flying Thunder God Jutsu meant to enable lesser shinobi, ones unable to learn the S-rank ninjutsu themselves, to accomplish the same effect. It requires three casters who made a circle and each perform the seal of confrontation to link them together. They then break down the complex chakra transformation required to traverse space-time into three parts with each member handling one part in unison with the other, like how Naruto would use a pair of clones to create the Wind Release: Rasen Shuriken. Doing so allows them to transport themselves and/or anything inside the inside the confines of the ring to a marked destination. Minato invented the jutsu and taught it to the Hokage Guard Platoon, a team of three special jounin that he put together. Their purpose is to come to his aid in an emergency (possibly with other allies when needed) or protect an important target designated by the Fourth by transporting them away with the danger zone.
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RE: The Naruversity
I was thinking that myself. That and Minato being able to activate the jutsu slightly faster than Tobirama which, when talking about instaneous travel through space and time, makes all the difference.
But doesn't Hashirama mention Tobirama using FTG to get to the battlefield when they first arrived? It sounded like there were markings still around that he could use. But I didn't go back and check so perhaps not.
I was thinking that myself. That and Minato being able to activate the jutsu slightly faster than Tobirama which, when talking about instaneous travel through space and time, makes all the difference.
But doesn't Hashirama mention Tobirama using FTG to get to the battlefield when they first arrived? It sounded like there were markings still around that he could use. But I didn't go back and check so perhaps not.
RE: The Naruversity
Tobirama's seals can be "dispelled".
Minato's seals are simply impossible to remove. They have to be sealed away or physically destroyed.
Minato is naturally faster and with faster reflexes than Tobirama, enabling him to actively USE more than one seal as he manages to get his wits about relocating much faster.
This also enable him to use seals in places otherwise too dangerous for slower shinobi like Tobirama(i.e.: Bee's tail; the still flying kunai over Tobito)
Flying Thunder Formation, too, is Minato's invention. It's used to move items(or persons) not physically in touch with the performer by enlarging a spacetime rip.
It was then evolved in the Guiding Thunder, where only the "item" is moved and not the performer
Tobirama's seals can be "dispelled".
Minato's seals are simply impossible to remove. They have to be sealed away or physically destroyed.
Minato is naturally faster and with faster reflexes than Tobirama, enabling him to actively USE more than one seal as he manages to get his wits about relocating much faster.
This also enable him to use seals in places otherwise too dangerous for slower shinobi like Tobirama(i.e.: Bee's tail; the still flying kunai over Tobito)
Flying Thunder Formation, too, is Minato's invention. It's used to move items(or persons) not physically in touch with the performer by enlarging a spacetime rip.
It was then evolved in the Guiding Thunder, where only the "item" is moved and not the performer