Naruto The Narutoversity

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

I guess sneaking in a Country and killing the local loyal ninja just isn't worth the risk.

As for those with prices on their heads... they are already targets in first place, so it's better for their body coming back to Konoha then falling in the hands of other villages.

Most likely, a Local Station pays the bounty set by a Foreign Village on Local Shinobi, but gives the body back to the Local Village.
Same applies for Stations from Allied countries(or just near to the Village). Because it's always wise to keep the neighbour happy, especially if they can turn you into dust with their children's toys


IMHO the Bounty Stations are "neutral ground": as they are useful to everybody, nobody bring harm on them. Any moron causing problems to a Station would probably find themselves with a bounty set by the Station itself and all the ninja using that station going for their heads.
Meanwhile the Villages keep a blind eye as long as the Stations keep themselves away from the spotlights and they give them the loyal ninjas and such.
Because of this, it's quite certain that Stations are independents, so to avoid them building up influence.


It's basically a big-ass grey area. I'm sure Danzou is involved.

 

[Altered Nova]

RE: The Naruversity

Most likely, a Local Station pays the bounty set by a Foreign Village on Local Shinobi, but gives the body back to the Local Village.

How does the station prove the death to the foreign village so they can collect the bounty then?

Also I just checked the manga again and apparently the bounty on Chiriku was set by an "underground organization", not a ninja village. I assume they mean a criminal syndicate? Why would Konoha tolerate that? I could see each ninja village respecting bounties set by other villages, so that their own bounties are respected in turn. But why would they respect the bounties of 'underground organizations'? I would think that Konoha would tell their local bounty stations "Remember, we know who you are and where you live. If you pay out any bounties set by criminals we will destroy you."

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

Most likely, a Local Station pays the bounty set by a Foreign Village on Local Shinobi, but gives the body back to the Local Village.

How does the station prove the death to the foreign village so they can collect the bounty then?

they don't.

Foreign Village puts a bounty on a Local Shinobi.
Local Shinobi body is given to Local(or Allied) Station.
Station pays the bounty.
Station then gives the body to the Local Village, not the Foreign Village.
Local village pays the Station as much as the Foreign village would have done.


For criminal organizations putting out bounties: Stations don't really care as long as they get paid and not get problems.
For a Village, a bounty from another Village or a different organization is the same thing.

Local\Allied Stations likely sell the Loyal bodies back to the Local\Allied Village regardless who did put out the bounty.

If anything, a Station bringing a loyal body because a Criminal bounty means the village going after the Criminal Organization, not the Station.

 

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

Would ninja have rules against dissecting the corpses of foreign criminals? As in, would they be expected to deliver the body to the nearest exchange point as soon as possible or would it be normally sent back home first for an autopsy and then cashed in for money? Like a rule during peacetime that villages are typically meant to follow. Or is having foreigners potentially learn secrets from their body simply a consequence they have to live with a ninja goes rogue and gets killed by their enemies?

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

I bet allied villages have "not-dissection agreements" for ninja from the other villages of the alliance- but it's actually applied only for show\minor ninjas nobody care about. Like that Iwa Chunin Yakuza.

And Kakashi himself stated Nukenins were hunted EXACTLY because villages don't want their secrets ending in the hands of other villages.

 

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

So a taken agreement between allies and anything goes for everyone else. Alright, that's now been redrafted. Kinda feels like I should have included a missing-nin section too, not that there's much to say there.

If nothing else, the new manga's made me want to work on this again. Pity that it's unlikely that much of the new worldbuilding that comes up will have much to do with the main era. Though maybe that's for the best. :sisi:

 

[Altered Nova]

RE: The Naruversity

It still seems bizarre to me that the Fire Nation bounty station would pay for the corpse of a Konoha monk or ninja. I mean, if Kakuzu had succeeded in selling Asuma's corpse to Zangei... I have to assume that Konoha would have payed Zangei the cost of the bounty to get the body back (and that the government payed to retrieve Chiriku), since there's no way in fuck that Konoha would let him ship the corpse of the son of a former Hokage off to some crime syndicate, possibly in another country.

But then, that basically means that Konoha would have indirectly payed Kakuzu to murder their own ninja. And the underground organization that originally posted the bounty got what they wanted (Asuma dead) but never had to pay a single penny to make it happen. That's kind of insane.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

I guess it depends on how much a corpse is worth.

And I guess it doesn't happen that often a high-ranked Local Shinobi gets killed in his own country and then sold to the Local Station: killing Local shinobi in their own Country is more something Enemy Shinobi would do, and they wouldn't sell the body to a Station but bring it back home.

 

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

Sending the body back home is standard procedure. Konoha wouldn't pay a thing and the underground organization are the ones who'd have put the money forward for the bounty in the first place. Though it was said that they put the bounty on Chiriku; we don't know who did so for Asuma.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

And Chiriku wasn't a Shinobi. So Konoha wouldn't care much about his body

 

[Yorae Rasante]

RE: The Naruversity

I think it is just delivering to the closest bounty collection instead of the closest to the people actually offering a bounty. Think of it as paying a tax for transportation to the point of actual delivery, but it being worth more than actually wasting time and money going there yourself.
Delivering the body to a fire country collection does not mean it would be sold to fire county, just that it was the most convenient.

 

[Altered Nova]

RE: The Naruversity

Sending the body back home is standard procedure. Konoha wouldn't pay a thing and the underground organization are the ones who'd have put the money forward for the bounty in the first place.

If Konoha doesn't pay the bounty but still gets to keep the corpse, then how does the bounty station prove the death to the client so that they can make back the money they already gave to the hunter? Does whomever put the bounty on Asuma just have to take Zangei's word for it that Asuma is actually dead and that it was him that payed out the bounty to the killer?

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

It's possible that Local Stations getting Local Shinobi bodies is something uncommon enough the Station can survive the loss of money by giving the body to the village to avoid being nuked and\or the village has no problems paying some\all the bounty because for them is better to lose some money than the body. Also, they'd get the name of the guy bringing the body to the Station, which is a useful information.

 

[Yorae Rasante]

RE: The Naruversity

The Local Station may receive the corpses of local ninjas, but why do you guys seem to think that means they deliver it to their home village? I mean, the bounties of loyal ninjas are not made by the home village, and their death is a loss of good personnel, so why would they pay it and encourage the practice?
No, the stations clearly just receive and pay, but they obviously take the bodies to the village that actually put the bounty on the ninja, not their home one.
Unless the home village itself pays something for the corpses, like to avoid people taking secrets - in which case the other villages would pay more to get those same secrets anyway.

 

[Altered Nova]

RE: The Naruversity

I think that the local stations must return the corpses of local ninja to their home village because otherwise that village would probably send a few ninja over to say "nice bounty station you got here... shame if anything were to happen to it." Especially if the dead local ninja had a bloodline or was related to the Kage or something, no way in fuck would the local village allow it be shipped out of the country. It doesn't really matter if the foreign village that posted the bounty offers more money for the corpse if the local village has ten thousand ninja a half-hour jog away from you and controls customs and border protection.

Personally, I would think that for a fire nation bounty station manager, buying the corpse of a local fire monk hero or the Third Hokage's son would be a good way to get on the Fire Daimyo or Hokage's shit list real quick. And shipping that corpse off to a foreign village or crime syndicate would be a good way to get yourself killed in retaliation - assuming it was even possible to get the corpse past the local village's pursuit teams and border patrols. Which is why I don't really understand why Zangei would willingly buy Chiriku's body or why he'd actually protect Kakuzu and antagonize Ibiki after doing so. That seemed kind of suicidal to me...

 

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

Selling local ninja corpses to foreign nations is exactly the kind of greedy business practice liable to get everyone involved imprisoned and executed. They know that it's generally not worth the effort.

I'd think that hidden village would prefer the bodies of their ninja being brought to one of the local bounty stations as it expedites the process and more-or-less guarantees that nothing untoward happens to it before they get it back. It's definitely better than the same thing happening in another country with a station not under their control and may not even know the location of. Any resentment is towards the one who did the killing and took the money. And everyone does the same thing anyway.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

And anonymity of those bringing the bodies is probably very important to Stations.

I'm guessing it doesn't extend to Local Loyal Bodies, but Chiriku wasn't a Konoha shinobi.

 

[Knyght]

Uzumaki Mask Temple (Official Version)

The Uzumaki Clan once used their superior skill in fuuinjutsu to create a set of masks that had unique and powerful jutsu sealed within. Those masks gave power to those who wear them by automatically activating the sealed jutsu to allow the bearer to use them without learning it to cast it themselves.

One such mask is imbued with the Dead Demon Consuming Seal, allowing someone to summon its sealing spirit without the danger that comes from training to use it.

When Uzushio and the Uzumaki fell to their enemies, these masks were left in the wreckage and then retrieved by Konoha in the aftermath. Though not all of them remained and some hadn't had any abilities bound them. Konoha decided to construct a temple - a shrine - decorated with the masks in dedication to their fallen allies.

Uzumaki Mito knew the purpose of the masks and shared that knowledge only with the Hokage and Kushina. It was forbidden to remove the masks from the temple and Mito kept them safe using certain barrier and sealing jutsu as protection. Kushina continued to give that protection when Mito passed up until her own death.

Unfortunately, the temple was forgotten entirely after the Nine-Tails Disaster with more vital concerns taking precedence and the last of the Uzumaki who knew of their history dying out. Its barriers eventually collapsed, the building fell into disrepair and the masks were simply left to gather dust.

 

[Altered Nova]

RE: The Naruversity

Dark Ninja

Dark Ninja ("An-nin") are shinobi who are employed directly by a private citizen or corporation rather than being contracted through a ninja village or clan. Many Dark Shinobi are Missing-nin and frequently work for criminal enterprises, which, perhaps unfairly, has earned them a rather sinister title and a nasty reputation. Dark Shinobi aren't necessary criminals however, although most are involved in questionable lines of works (as a legitimate businessman would just hire a village ninja). Dark Shinobi are commonly associated with the Yakuza in popular culture and feared by the general civilian population.

Known Shadow Ninja:

Gantetsu, the "Legendary Dark Shinobi" - A former Chuunin of Iwagakure. He and his partner Chouseki were court martialed and discharged for dishonorable behaviour. After serving their time they emigrated to the Fire Nation in search of a more luxurious life, and were hired as enforcers by a shady organization that ran the brothels around Tanzaku Quarters. It was in one of those brothels that Gantetsu met and attempted to attack Naruto for a minor offense, and was utterly flattened by Jiraiya in retaliation.

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

I don't remember him being called such in the anime.
Do anybody have different scanlations to make sure it's not just a weird\wrong translation?


That said, your description of Yaminin is... the description of Nukenin.

 

[Knyght]

RE: The Naruversity

Manga says "Akoki the Yaminin" while the wiki says "Gangetsu the Annin" (and Dark Ninja rather than Shadow Ninja).

I'd think the dark-nin would need to be the lowest of the low to get that label instead of being like any other missing-nin. Missing-nin might be hired by a criminal to do a dirty job (like Zabuza) but dark-nin are the criminals who take on any dirty job that comes their way, acting without any morals or principles for the sake of a profit.

 

[Altered Nova]

RE: The Naruversity

Wait, "Gantetsu the Annin?" No wonder I couldn't find a wiki page or databook entry for this guy. How the hell did the fan translator turn that into "Akoki the Yamanin"?

That said, your description of Yaminin is... the description of Nukenin.

What? No it's not. Nukenin are ninja who abandoned their village or clan. My interpretation of Yaminin is that they are ninja who work in the private sector rather than working for a village. There's a lot of overlap there, as many of the ninja who are employed by private citizens and/or corporations are doing so because they abandoned their village/clan, but it's not a requirement. A Yaminin might have been kicked out of his village rather than abandoning it (and thus not a hunted criminal), or they might not have ever been part of a village in the first place (someone self-taught, or someone trained by a nukenin, or someone like Yahiko, Konan and Nagato, who were trained by a ninja who then left them to their own fate.)

Also, not every nukenin is a yaminin either. Orochimaru created his own fucking village, he was self-employed. The members of Akatsuki basically created their own corporation and worked as mercenaries just the same as village ninja do. Zabuza also wasn't employed by a civilian, he was working as a private contractor doing just the one job for Gato.

I'd think the dark-nin would need to be the lowest of the low to get that label instead of being like any other missing-nin. Missing-nin might be hired by a criminal to do a dirty job (like Zabuza) but dark-nin are the criminals who take on any dirty job that comes their way, acting without any morals or principles for the sake of a profit.

That was my initial idea, but it bothered me that Gantetsu and his partner are apparently working openly in a civilized, heavily populated city in the middle of the Fire Nation while strutting around in expensive suits and bragging to complete strangers about his status as a "Dark Shinobi" and a "former chuunin of Iwagakure". If he's a nukenin and/or criminal scum, then that would be really stupid and would quickly bring the authorities/hunternin down on his head. Also the manga and his databook entry never actually say that he's a nukenin and/or criminal. Just that he's a "former Chuunin from Iwagakure" and a "has-been ninja." That leads me to think that rather than defecting, he was just kicked out of his village for being incompetent and/or dishonorable.

 

[Yorae Rasante]

RE: The Naruversity

Does this description has any base from canon or is it something you made up? Because from the name I'd take them as less "nukenin but worse" and more "ninja mafia, just in the line enough to be called criminal when dirty is found but also able to stay in their positions until they can't hide the conclusive proof anymore"

 

[Altered Nova]

RE: The Naruversity

It's 90% something I completely made up. Gantetsu the "Legendary Dark Shinobi" is canon, and I decided it would be cool if "Dark Shinobi" was an actual thing, and not just an overblown nickname for this one dude.

And yeah, ""ninja mafia, just in the line enough to be called criminal when dirty is found but also able to stay in their positions until they can't hide the conclusive proof anymore" is basically what I was going for. Dark Shinobi aren't necessary crooks... but most of them are unethical and definitely involved in questionable businesses at best (since a legit businessman would just hire a village ninja.)

 

[ankokudaishogun]

RE: The Naruversity

Ok, Ninja Yakuza makes more sense than "nukenin but worse"

It would also explain why a Iwa nukenin was going around in Fire Country with an underling telling left and right his name and the fact he's a nukenin: he had protection.

I'm going to guess most Annin Syndicates are based local minor ninja clans who didn't get absorbed in the Village System and did manage to build some degree of influence.
After all, they'd be completely free during times where the villages were involved in wars. And there are probably a lot of "unsavoury" missions one can't take to the official village but doesn't trust a random nukenin to complete.
They happen to have foreign nukenin in their raws once in a while, because they are very small and sometime you just have to get help from outside and hiring a local nukenin is asking to be nuked by the local village.

As long as they don't act directly against the Village shinobi, they are left relatively alone unless somebody hires the village to teach them a lesson.