Naruto The Narutoversity

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#76
The Naruversity

Indeed. Merely making your chakra fire-like and spitting it out seems like it should be easy compared to physically transforming your body into another person or even an inanimate object, or bending space to near instantly switch places with another object, or creating programmable holograms of yourself. Yet the fireball is the chuunin level jutsu. :huh.:
 
#77
The Naruversity

For its Chakra requirements, not its complexity.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
#78
The Naruversity

I'm telling you guys, Ninja sign the log summoning contract at the start of their training.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#79
The Naruversity

That is hilariously plausible. I'm just imagining a massive log summoning contract with the names of every ninja who ever graduated signed to it, sitting on a pedestal in the middle of an enormous warehouse full of logs. Inside woodcutters work round the clock cutting up trees to replace all the logs which continuously vanish whenever a Konoha ninja uses kawarimi.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
#80
The Naruversity

You know... has a non-Konoha ninja ever used Kawiarmi?
 

TC_Hazard

Well-Known Member
#81
The Naruversity

Shirotsume said:
You know... has a non-Konoha ninja ever used Kawiarmi?
Didn't Deidara use it once? When Naruto was beating him up with Kyuubi's chakra way back in the Rescue Gaara arc?
 

Knyght

The Collector
#83
The Naruversity

Ah, but he was taught by Jiraiya. But yeah, Deidara did it and so did Gaara.
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
#84
The Naruversity

Altered Nova said:
Even if they aren't using wormholes to teleport the distance it still sounds like they'd need to pull some space-time manipulation shenanigans to warp through the air like that.
Think of Substitution more along the lines of a card illusion, where one changes a Seven of Hearts into the Ace of Spades.The secret is in the misdirecting distraction while one does the actual switch. Of course, doing the switching could feasible mess with space and time -- hell, they're already borking reality by completely reshaping their physical forms at will once they reach the age of seven, so, why not?
 

goldenarms

Well-Known Member
#85
The Naruversity

Altered Nova said:
That is hilariously plausible. I'm just imagining a massive log summoning contract with the names of every ninja who ever graduated signed to it, sitting on a pedestal in the middle of an enormous warehouse full of logs. Inside woodcutters work round the clock cutting up trees to replace all the logs which continuously vanish whenever a Konoha ninja uses kawarimi.
Now you know what Yamato was doing during the Sand-Sound invasion.
 
Wall and Water Walking (Yorae Rasante)

Yorae Rasante

Well-Known Member
#87
RE: The Naruversity

Ok, what about the basic Wall and Water-Walking?
I have two theories myself:
1- The chakra in wall-walking creates a suction effect, atracting anything to it. Too little and there is not enough for it to get a grip, too much and it damages the surface the object/body part it is being used on (Kakashi wansn't exactly walking when he demonstrated it) is in contact with. It affects only the user, allowing them to grip anything the affected area comes in contact with without much thought.
The chakra in water-walking, on the other hand, creates a repulsion effect, increasing the surface tension. Due to the more fluid materials it is used on, using too much chakra will throw the material away and disrupt the effect. Also, the material's fluidity requires constant adjustements of the chakra used for the repulsion.
2- The chakra in wall and water-walking is inbedded on the point of contact on both sides, allowing the use of an effect not unlike magnetic attraction and repulsion, but attuned to the user's particular chakra. Too little chakra on either side won't be enough for the effect to hold, while too much on one would damage it. Due to the fluidity of where it is usually used on, water-walking requires the user to charge the surface constantly and precisely else the effect will dissipate.

[EDIT] That moment you notice you just posted on a month-old thread yet it is near the top of the first page so you are unsure if it counts as a necro...
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#88
RE: The Naruversity

It's on topic and adds meaningfully to the discussion. I approve of your post and deem it not a necro!
 
Chakra = Soul (Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
#89
Hm, been a while. This one's based on a conversation that came up a few months back. I think the theory fits but I'm not sure if it accounts for everything.

Chakra = Soul

A person’s chakra is their soul. The shadow clone jutsu splits a person’s chakra meaning that it possess half of the user’s soul. When people seal away a portion of their chakra which exists after their death, because it’s a soul it is capable of free thought and possesses the user’s memories. Living transplants and modifications effect a person’s chakra, meaning that their soul changes.

A transplanted organ still contains/produces chakra/physical energy from the original person it belonged to. I imagine that if you had such a transplanted organ for long enough that eventually it would assimilate fully with your body and permanently change your chakra with some properties of the original owners chakra, and if chakra=soul then if revived by Edo Tensei you would come back with that body part. That explains why Sasori comes back without the puppet body because the puppet body doesn't produce chakra, and why Nagato come back old because aging is a physical process that would change your chakra by changing the physical energy composing half of it.

About the heart, it may not be the source of chakra but it does produce a lot of it and it's what determines a person's elemental affinity. That's why Kakuzu had 5 of them, he ran his own chakra through the hearts he stole from other shinobi to change the affinity to the same as the original's owner's.
 
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Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#90
RE: The Naruversity

I really like that idea. Having a person's soul be composed half of spiritual energy produced by an intelligent mind and half of physical energy produced by living cells (since chakra is a mixture of both physical and spiritual energy) is a rather unique concept. Usually in fiction the soul is entirely spiritual and entirely divorced from the physical body, which leads to all sorts of fridge logic - like why do people even have brains if the spirit is capable of remembering and thinking things by itself?

Souls containing physical energy would explain why creatures composed of pure chakra like the bijuu are capable of creating a physical body made of blood and bone and muscle. Although I have to wonder how they replenish that physical energy that makes up half of their chakra when it's drained from them or when they use it up fighting... perhaps the Juubi's real physical body (the Gedou Mazou statue) still produces physical energy and the bijuu draw from it remotely to create their chakra?

My only nitpick, I think transplanted organs probably only produce physical energy and not full chakra. (since chakra is something that has to be actively created by people and only naturally occurs in small amounts in the body). Although that would still permanently change your chakra since it would change your physical energy. I like to try and explain these things in scientific terms, so in my head physical energy is a kind of biological/chemical energy produced within living cells, while spiritual energy is a kind of psychic energy, given off by sentient thought/mental processes. Therefore spiritual energy would originate from the brain - not directly produced by brain cells (those would create physical energy like all other cells), but rather a kind of by-product radiation that's given off by the abstract processes of the consciousness. Subjectivity, awareness, sentience, capacity to feel and experience emotion, knowledge, memories. Anything that has those things could produce spiritual energy... hmmm, actually that could lead to the possibility of artificial intelligences being able to produce spiritual energy. Now that's an interesting idea.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#91
RE: The Naruversity

Though there'd have to be some of the original spiritual energy involved (perhaps a permanent imprint in the body part) otherwise Aoi shouldn't have been able to recognize Shisui's chakra the way he did.

And something that bugs me thanks to the recent chapter is how we see Naruto, and presumably Minato, access Kurama's chakra which has none of his will attached. Seems to me that that contradicts the chakra=soul idea, though what they did could be something unnatural due to process involved i.e. separating the chakra through sealing.
 

alucard964

Well-Known Member
#92
RE: The Naruversity

knight504 said:
Though there'd have to be some of the original spiritual energy involved (perhaps a permanent imprint in the body part) otherwise Aoi shouldn't have been able to recognize Shisui's chakra the way he did.

And something that bugs me thanks to the recent chapter is how we see Naruto, and presumably Minato, access Kurama's chakra which has none of his will attached. Seems to me that that contradicts the chakra=soul idea, though what they did could be something unnatural due to process involved i.e. separating the chakra through sealing.
which is what was done. minato split the kyuubi's chakra into the yin and yang parts he sealed the either the yin or yang (can't remember) into naruto along with the kyuubi's soul and then sealed the other part inside himself.
 

Knyght

The Collector
#93
RE: The Naruversity

I know that's what they did. I was just wondering if it had an effect on the chakra's sentience. With this theory, the fact that the chakra Naruto and Minato took from Kurama had no will of its own contradicts the idea. So I thought it could be that the method of fuuinjutsu used created a unique situation where the chakra had no sentience whatsoever, unlike examples such as Kushina in the seal or Orochimaru's chakra trying to take over Kabuto.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#94
RE: The Naruversity

Perhaps by "separating the Kyuubi's chakra from it's will" the fuinjutsu is very specifically only restricting one component of the Kyuubi's mind, i.e. "The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action," and the rest of the Kyuubi's spirit/mind (it's sentience, memories, knowledge, self-awareness, etc) is still present in the chakra but is incapable of contesting Naruto and Minato for control without it's will.

Actually I'm kind of curious on how that whole spiritual half of chakra works with normal humans now. We know a bijuu's chakra can overwhelm you and take control because the chakra contains it's will. Does the same hold true for people (other than Orochimaru)? When that genin was absorbing Sasuke's chakra in the Chuunin exam preliminary tournament rounds, did a small echo of Sasuke's will appear in his head and try to ineffectively wrest control away from him? Or was the jutsu he used to absorb chakra designed to filter the victim's will out of the spiritual energy comprising half of their chakra?
 

Knyght

The Collector
#95
RE: The Naruversity

I would think the latter, otherwise I think you'd be a lot less willing to use it. Unless the kind of resistance produced from that method isn't that large such as victim may not be aware of the struggle. And then we have Jiroubou stealing chakra from five individuals (and is probably designed to be used against multiple opponents) so he would be putting himself in dangerous position.

Besides, wasn't there a mention about converting chakra in recent chapters? So these guys might remove the problem by changing the chakra as they absorb it.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
#96
RE: The Naruversity

Hmm, how exactly would "converting" chakra work anyway? Stripping out any personality and will from the chakra being converted, leaving the spiritual energy within blank and ready to imprint on another person's mind? Does that sound plausible or ridiculous?
 

Knyght

The Collector
#97
RE: The Naruversity

It's said in the manga that Naruto "achieved a resonance with [Kurama's] chakra" and "moulded it to match each individual's unique traits". So I guess they resonate with the subject's chakra and as they absorb it, they mould it to match their own traits either manually or automatically. Though they must take it even further since the victim doesn't control it afterwards, so 'purifying' the spiritual energy would be necessary I suppose.
 
#98
RE: The Naruversity

Kurama's chakra, once stripped from him by force, seemed to lose the "connection" with the intellect. Which would explain why it did stop harming Naruto: no intellect==no bad feelings

I think the chakra ALWAYS loses its connection with the intellect once separated from the body, except when in specific techniques: Mokubunshin, Kagebunshin and Orochimaru's Cursed Seals, which probably work using the Quantum Fractal properties of the Chakra\Soul.
The Yamanaka jutsu probably works the same way, overlapping the user's souls\chakra, still connected to the body, on the victim. And since it's still remotely connected to the body, it keeps the intellect.... basically the same thing biju chakra does, but remotely instead of through a seal.
 
Yin and Yang Release (Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
#99
Yin and Yang Release (Official Version)

As chakra is created, the ratio between the physical and spiritual energy is dependent on the individual as defined by their personality, genetics and training. Some individuals generate chakra with more spiritual energy than physical whilst some are opposite. The ideal ninja would have a perfect balance between them. This is the same for the chakra that is constantly being produced within the body and the chakra that is deliberately generated. Most jutsu favour either physical or spiritual energy to some degree, depending on how they function, meaning that the energy ratio within the chakra needs to be changed when moulded to use the jutsu. The natural energy ratio of a person's chakra influences how easy or how difficult it is to use a jutsu. For example, Bunshin is a non-physical image so it uses spiritually-included chakra which is why Naruto, who's burdened with the Kyuubi's Yang chakra, struggled to learn it despite mastering Henge and Kawarimi.

It is only when the physical or spiritual energy composes at least 75% of the moulded chakra that it becomes Yin or Yang chakra. When there's more spiritual energy than physical energy, it is Yin chakra. When there's more physical energy than spiritual energy, it is Yang chakra.

Yin Release uses imagination and can bring form from nothingness e.g. genjutsu.

Yang Release governs vitality and can breathe life into form e.g. medical ninjutsu.

It's possible for this to be taken to extremes where the chakra is composed almost entirely of either physical or spiritual energy, causing it to become unstable and independently seek out its opposite form of energy to attain some balance. This is typically just a mistake made during training but some individuals have developed jutsu which use this as the main function e.g. Tayuya's Revolt of the Demon World.

Because chakra becomes unstable when the energies are so unbalanced, controlling such chakra requires special advanced training or unusual skill, hence why Yin and Yang Release jutsu either require very fine chakra control (genjutsu, medical jutsu), or the special training is a closely guarded clan secret (shadow jutsu, mind/body switch jutsu, body expansion jutsu).

Yin-Yang Release is an incredibly difficult art which uses Yin and Yang chakra together. It involves creating something from the user's imagination (Yin) and then giving it life (Yang). It requires the simultaneous use of both chakras and only the Sage of Six Paths was known for mastering it, resulting in him possessing the ability known as the "Creation of All Things".
 
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