Naruto The Narutoversity
- Thread starter Knyght
- Start date
If Chidori and Raikiri really are the exact same jutsu, then why does Raikiri have a higher rank? You even acknowledge that they have different ranks but fail to explain this bizarre discrepancy.
Also, why does Kakashi talk about both jutsu as if they are different in some way? In that chapter 128 page you linked to he even says "If I use four Chidori or Raikir in the same day..." While this statement confirms they have the same chakra cost, using a coordinating conjunction ("or") certainly makes it sound like they are not the exact same jutsu.
Also, just read the descriptions for the two jutsu databook entries (why would they even have separate databook entries?). Raikiri is described with much more impressive language than Chidori is. "Great amount of chakra is brought forth" vs "huge amount of chakra is a wonder." "High-speed stab of destructive power" vs. "a famous blade that can cut through anything."
It may literally be the same jutsu, but it sounds like the technique is somehow just better when Kakashi uses it. Like there's something special about the way he performs the jutsu that makes it more deadly than the way Sasuke performs it. It's even described as "a simple technique perfected by honing it to the limit, an artisan's technique" which makes it sound like Kakashi has mastered the jutsu to a higher skill level and can bring out more of it's potential or something... Perhaps his blade is sharper because of his superior skill and experience with the jutsu?
Also, why does Kakashi talk about both jutsu as if they are different in some way? In that chapter 128 page you linked to he even says "If I use four Chidori or Raikir in the same day..." While this statement confirms they have the same chakra cost, using a coordinating conjunction ("or") certainly makes it sound like they are not the exact same jutsu.
Also, just read the descriptions for the two jutsu databook entries (why would they even have separate databook entries?). Raikiri is described with much more impressive language than Chidori is. "Great amount of chakra is brought forth" vs "huge amount of chakra is a wonder." "High-speed stab of destructive power" vs. "a famous blade that can cut through anything."
It may literally be the same jutsu, but it sounds like the technique is somehow just better when Kakashi uses it. Like there's something special about the way he performs the jutsu that makes it more deadly than the way Sasuke performs it. It's even described as "a simple technique perfected by honing it to the limit, an artisan's technique" which makes it sound like Kakashi has mastered the jutsu to a higher skill level and can bring out more of it's potential or something... Perhaps his blade is sharper because of his superior skill and experience with the jutsu?
The reason I believe the Raikiri has a higher rank - which I didn't include to avoid throwing theories around in the list - is because of its fame rather than its own merits.
Officially, the juts is the A-rank Chidori but when wielded by Kakashi it is known as the S-rank Raikiri. In other words, it's a A-rank jutsu with the reputation of S-rank because he once used it to cut down a lightning bolt which amazes the crap out of everyone, allies and enemies alike. The Chidori article even says that it's known as Raikiri when Kakashi used (rather than something like "it becomes Raikiri") and the Raikiri article makes multiple references to its fame and legend and uses a more dramatic tone to describe the exact same thing.
Kakashi referring to it as Chidori or Raikiri makes sense in context because it goes by two names and he's discussing it with Sasuke who's just learned it himself so it's said for clarity's sake. And at the start of the nature transformation training, he also refers to himself as using Chidori so it's treated interchangeably there.
The way Kishimoto classes jutsu is weird sometimes.
Officially, the juts is the A-rank Chidori but when wielded by Kakashi it is known as the S-rank Raikiri. In other words, it's a A-rank jutsu with the reputation of S-rank because he once used it to cut down a lightning bolt which amazes the crap out of everyone, allies and enemies alike. The Chidori article even says that it's known as Raikiri when Kakashi used (rather than something like "it becomes Raikiri") and the Raikiri article makes multiple references to its fame and legend and uses a more dramatic tone to describe the exact same thing.
Kakashi referring to it as Chidori or Raikiri makes sense in context because it goes by two names and he's discussing it with Sasuke who's just learned it himself so it's said for clarity's sake. And at the start of the nature transformation training, he also refers to himself as using Chidori so it's treated interchangeably there.
The way Kishimoto classes jutsu is weird sometimes.
Haze Clone Jutsu (Knyght)
Just throwing this in here because I can't think of a bigger article to put it in. Aside from Bunshinjutsu but I've already covered the Clone Jutsu and Shadow Clone Jutsu. I might do one for miscellaneous jutsu and group them all together.
Haze Clone Jutsu
Haze Clones are the next level up from the Clone Jutsu. Like regular clones they are illusionary images but capable of greater independence. They do not require the caster to manually control all of their movements like a regular clone as they possess enough consciousness to move themselves. Their bodies are able to distort light to cast their own shadows and can even mimic speech to strengthen the illusion that they are real. Any physical attacks just pass through their intangible body without disturbing its image at all, making it difficult to remove their presence unless they strike the original caster.
Haze Clone Jutsu
Haze Clones are the next level up from the Clone Jutsu. Like regular clones they are illusionary images but capable of greater independence. They do not require the caster to manually control all of their movements like a regular clone as they possess enough consciousness to move themselves. Their bodies are able to distort light to cast their own shadows and can even mimic speech to strengthen the illusion that they are real. Any physical attacks just pass through their intangible body without disturbing its image at all, making it difficult to remove their presence unless they strike the original caster.
I found myself going back and giving a major overhaul for some of my older articles before moving onto the newish stuff: Sensors and Sensing, Tsunade's Transformation, Elemental Kekkei Genkai (originally Advanced Chakra Natures), Chakra Absorption, Wood Release, Chakra Enhancement and Hyuuga Clan.
Mangekyo Sharingan v2 (Knyght)
And here's the final version for the MS.
Mangekyo Sharingan v2 (Official Version)
The Mangekyo Sharingan is the evolved state of the Sharingan, kekkei genkai of the Uchiha Clan.
When activated, their three tomoe transforms into a new pattern that it is unique to the individual which is why it is named after a kaleidoscope.
This evolution amplifies the Sharingan's innate abilities such as the Eye of Insight to improve the clarity of their visual perception or the Eye of Hypnosis to to weave even more powerful illusions. And each Mangekyo favours one of these abilities over the other depending on the wielder's talents and affinity. A Straight Tomoe is most compatible with the Eye of Insight, granting fluidity to their movement as their perception allows them to perfectly evade and counter their enemy. A Curved Tomoe is most compatible with the Eye of Hypnosis, granting clarity to their chakra visions and further empowering their genjutsu.
Most importantly, the Mangekyo Sharingan grants its wielder powerful jutsu that makes them far more dangerous than the typical Uchiha. These would take decades for ordinary ninja to create themselves and likely still not be as powerful or useful.
Abilities like creating black flames that burn for seven days and nights, genjutsu that controls the perception of space and time, hypnosis that dominates the victim’s mind without them knowing, transporting its target to a subspace or creating a guardian spirit of chakra.
The jutsu that one acquires varies from individual to individual but there are a finite number of them in total. Despite the appearance of each Mangekyo Sharingan being unique, more than one individual can have the same jutsu - making some recognize them on sight when used by someone different - though certain abilities are rarer than others. And an unusual trait for these jutsu is that the wielder does not name them. Instead each jutsu has its own name which they instinctively learn after exploring their abilities.
Each eye has its own jutsu but they may be entirely different from one another, complementary to one another, exactly the same as one another or have the same one but with different aspects in each eye.
Awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan
Among the small number of Uchiha who have acquired the Sharingan, even fewer of those have met the conditions needed for the Mangekyo Sharingan.
Where the Sharingan is awakened by the Uchiha by experiencing strong emotions, even greater extremes are needed to awaken the Mangekyo Sharingan.
To acquire it, one must at least have awakened the Sharingan regardless of its stage of maturation. Then they must directly experience the loss of losing a loved one by witnessing their death. If the depth of their grief and sorrow is strong enough - overcoming even the emotional conditioning and calloused heart of a shinobi - it triggers a reaction within their doujutsu to elevate it the next stage of evolution. Even if the Sharingan had not yet fully matured, it automatically does so upon awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan.
The origins of this evolution lie with the progenitor of the clan, Otsutsuki Indra.
He was born with the Sharingan and its powers of insight and hypnosis but he discovered that he possessed even greater ocular powers later in life. He found that he could transform his eyes into an evolved state through which he could unleash a variety of powerful jutsu. These abilities were passed down to his descendants but were buried deep in their bloodline which could not easily be harnessed.
The first to awaken the Mangekyo Sharingan were the brothers Uchiha Madara and Uchiha Izuna, several centuries after Indra's lifetime.
A lifetime of war had weakened the mind of their father and the leader of their clan, Uchiha Tajima. He had lived longer than most shinobi and remained a powerful shinobi, but his mental instability caused him to make mistakes that fractured the clan's strength and was ultimately leading them to ruin.
To save the clan, the brothers killed their own father.
However the love and respect they had for their father made the act one of emotional torture that served as a trigger for their doujutsu's evolution. Together, they named it the Mangekyo Sharingan which they used to unite the clan with Madara as their new leader.
When the rest of the Uchiha learned how they awakened it, more than a few became desperate to possess it themselves. And the only way to awaken the power by choice, instead of by chance, would be to willingly kill someone they loved. By killing a loved one, it forces them to not only experience the pain of their death but combines it with the guilty of causing that death in the first place which practically guarantees the awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan.
It became a ugly secret among the Uchiha that one who has acquired the Mangekyo Sharingan is one that may have murdered a friend for it. But that was merely the price of power.
Controlling the Tailed Beasts
The Sharingan has the potential to control the Tailed Beasts.
Ordinary genjutsu have proven unable to affect the Tailed Beasts as ninja are not capable of manipulate their immense and powerful chakra with their own. But the origin of the Sharingan's ability gives it a unique connection with the beasts to influence them.
Only those with the most powerful, fully mastered Sharingan are capable of using its power on the Tailed Beasts and even then they would only be able to suppress a portion of their strength to weaken them. For this reason, as well as the sheer destruction the beasts would inflict on those foolish enough to fight them, the ability was practically unknown.
But by awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan, that potential is realized in full. Even without using the evolved doujutsu itself, they are able to dominate the Tailed Beast to bend them to their will.
Uchiha Madara proved this after he abandoned Konohagakure when he found the Nine-Tailed Fox, the most powerful of the Tailed Beasts, and controlled it with his Sharingan to fight against Senju Hashirama. The scale of the battle and the apparent death of Madara made it a legendary event that spread the news of the Mangekyo Sharingan's previous unknown power.
The Uchiha chose to edit the stone tablet passed down in their clan to show those with a mastered Sharingan how to acquire the Mangekyo Sharingan and the powers it possessed.
Cost of the Mangekyo Sharingan
The price exacted from possessing the Mangekyo Sharingan is blindness and the more one uses the eyes then the faster they lose their eyesight.
Each time one of its jutsu is cast, it causes a physical backlash upon that eye which damages their nerves, blood vessels and lens. In the immediate sense, this results in the wielder suffering intense pain and even increasingly worse bleeding from that eye but this has the permanent effect of weakening their vision. Over time, they experience episodes of disorienting double vision and their eyesight becomes increasingly dim and blurry - even with the Sharingan's supernatural acuity - until they cannot see anything.
If one never used the Mangekyo Sharingan, it would take decades to go blind. But anyone who awakens this power is unlikely to ever avoid using it if needed. The rate at which the eyes lose their vision depends on how many times they are used and how often they are used. But using it too many times in a short period means suffering the greater pain than usual and the vision worsens at a faster rate as well. But by carefully conserving the use of their jutsu, they can preserve these abilities for years if not decades.
Medical ninjutsu and medicine is only able to heal the short-term effects of the eye to reduce inflammation and bleeding but the damage to their eyesight is immune even to the most skilled of medical ninja. Otherwise there are only two ways to overcome the Mangekyo's Sharingan.
One is the cells and chakra of Senju Hashirama because of the powerful life force and regenerative ability of his unique body. By implanting his cells into their body, one becomes almost entirely immune to the damaging effects of the evolved doujutsu which allows them to perform as many of its jutsu as they desire without losing their eyesight.
The second is the last evolution of the Sharingan.
Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan
The Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is the final stage of the doujutsu.
By replacing their Mangekyo Sharingan with the eyes of a direct blood relative - such as a sibling, parent or offspring - who has also achieved Mangekyo Sharingan, the host's chakra mixes with the donor's in the transplanted eyes to awaken an evolved version of the doujutsu. This evolution is reflected in the changed pattern of the eyes which are a combination of the host and donor's original ones.
Those who possess it can wield all of the powers of their original Mangekyo Sharingan and their vision is restored to perfection. Their eyes still bleed as an aftereffect of channeling the incredible power of these jutsu but it does not cause them any pain or long-term damage.
The doujutsu's abilities are actually no more powerful than before. Every use of the eyes in their previous state was physically painful to use and the permanent consequences meant that it needed to be used sparingly; they could not be practiced like ordinary jutsu and had to be tested in live combat instead. Now that the only cost is the amount of chakra, the wielder can train and experiment with their doujutsu as much as they need without losing focus. This makes it far easier for them to draw out their doujutsu's true potential and makes its wielder far more dangerous than their previous self.
Unlike the instantaneous awakening of the Sharingan and the Mangekyo Sharingan, awakening the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is a gradual process as the eyes recover from the transplant and mix the respective chakras together over time. If the eyes aren't compatible for evolution then the host instead only gains the abilities of the donor's eyes.
The only two people to have ever awakened the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan are Uchiha Madara and Uchiha Sasuke.
In his numerous battles against Senju Clan, Madara had nearly lost his eyesight from overusing the Mangekyo Sharingan. As his younger brother lay dying from their last battle with the Senju, Izuna offered his less damaged eyes to Madara so that he could continue protecting the Uchiha Clan in his absence. Madara tore out his own eyes and replaced them with his brother's, unknowingly starting the transformation that restored its sight and made it eternal.
Those who followed in the brothers' footsteps and awakened the Mangekyo Sharingan themselves tried to achieve this evolution as well but continually failed. With there only being a single precedent - and the exact circumstances involved weren't something that Madara shared with his brethren - Uchiha would steal the eyes of their own clansmen in the hopes of awakening the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan only to fail continually. It was only through trial and error that they came to the conclusion that it would only work with a direct blood relative who had awakened the Mangkeyo Sharingan themselves.
But awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan became less common over the generations; the initial craze for its power fading and the Uchiha placing strict control over one another. It became a rare thing but those who did possess its power were still respected among the clan for said power.
Mangekyo Sharingan v2 (Official Version)
The Mangekyo Sharingan is the evolved state of the Sharingan, kekkei genkai of the Uchiha Clan.
When activated, their three tomoe transforms into a new pattern that it is unique to the individual which is why it is named after a kaleidoscope.
This evolution amplifies the Sharingan's innate abilities such as the Eye of Insight to improve the clarity of their visual perception or the Eye of Hypnosis to to weave even more powerful illusions. And each Mangekyo favours one of these abilities over the other depending on the wielder's talents and affinity. A Straight Tomoe is most compatible with the Eye of Insight, granting fluidity to their movement as their perception allows them to perfectly evade and counter their enemy. A Curved Tomoe is most compatible with the Eye of Hypnosis, granting clarity to their chakra visions and further empowering their genjutsu.
Most importantly, the Mangekyo Sharingan grants its wielder powerful jutsu that makes them far more dangerous than the typical Uchiha. These would take decades for ordinary ninja to create themselves and likely still not be as powerful or useful.
Abilities like creating black flames that burn for seven days and nights, genjutsu that controls the perception of space and time, hypnosis that dominates the victim’s mind without them knowing, transporting its target to a subspace or creating a guardian spirit of chakra.
The jutsu that one acquires varies from individual to individual but there are a finite number of them in total. Despite the appearance of each Mangekyo Sharingan being unique, more than one individual can have the same jutsu - making some recognize them on sight when used by someone different - though certain abilities are rarer than others. And an unusual trait for these jutsu is that the wielder does not name them. Instead each jutsu has its own name which they instinctively learn after exploring their abilities.
Each eye has its own jutsu but they may be entirely different from one another, complementary to one another, exactly the same as one another or have the same one but with different aspects in each eye.
Awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan
Among the small number of Uchiha who have acquired the Sharingan, even fewer of those have met the conditions needed for the Mangekyo Sharingan.
Where the Sharingan is awakened by the Uchiha by experiencing strong emotions, even greater extremes are needed to awaken the Mangekyo Sharingan.
To acquire it, one must at least have awakened the Sharingan regardless of its stage of maturation. Then they must directly experience the loss of losing a loved one by witnessing their death. If the depth of their grief and sorrow is strong enough - overcoming even the emotional conditioning and calloused heart of a shinobi - it triggers a reaction within their doujutsu to elevate it the next stage of evolution. Even if the Sharingan had not yet fully matured, it automatically does so upon awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan.
The origins of this evolution lie with the progenitor of the clan, Otsutsuki Indra.
He was born with the Sharingan and its powers of insight and hypnosis but he discovered that he possessed even greater ocular powers later in life. He found that he could transform his eyes into an evolved state through which he could unleash a variety of powerful jutsu. These abilities were passed down to his descendants but were buried deep in their bloodline which could not easily be harnessed.
The first to awaken the Mangekyo Sharingan were the brothers Uchiha Madara and Uchiha Izuna, several centuries after Indra's lifetime.
A lifetime of war had weakened the mind of their father and the leader of their clan, Uchiha Tajima. He had lived longer than most shinobi and remained a powerful shinobi, but his mental instability caused him to make mistakes that fractured the clan's strength and was ultimately leading them to ruin.
To save the clan, the brothers killed their own father.
However the love and respect they had for their father made the act one of emotional torture that served as a trigger for their doujutsu's evolution. Together, they named it the Mangekyo Sharingan which they used to unite the clan with Madara as their new leader.
When the rest of the Uchiha learned how they awakened it, more than a few became desperate to possess it themselves. And the only way to awaken the power by choice, instead of by chance, would be to willingly kill someone they loved. By killing a loved one, it forces them to not only experience the pain of their death but combines it with the guilty of causing that death in the first place which practically guarantees the awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan.
It became a ugly secret among the Uchiha that one who has acquired the Mangekyo Sharingan is one that may have murdered a friend for it. But that was merely the price of power.
Controlling the Tailed Beasts
The Sharingan has the potential to control the Tailed Beasts.
Ordinary genjutsu have proven unable to affect the Tailed Beasts as ninja are not capable of manipulate their immense and powerful chakra with their own. But the origin of the Sharingan's ability gives it a unique connection with the beasts to influence them.
Only those with the most powerful, fully mastered Sharingan are capable of using its power on the Tailed Beasts and even then they would only be able to suppress a portion of their strength to weaken them. For this reason, as well as the sheer destruction the beasts would inflict on those foolish enough to fight them, the ability was practically unknown.
But by awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan, that potential is realized in full. Even without using the evolved doujutsu itself, they are able to dominate the Tailed Beast to bend them to their will.
Uchiha Madara proved this after he abandoned Konohagakure when he found the Nine-Tailed Fox, the most powerful of the Tailed Beasts, and controlled it with his Sharingan to fight against Senju Hashirama. The scale of the battle and the apparent death of Madara made it a legendary event that spread the news of the Mangekyo Sharingan's previous unknown power.
The Uchiha chose to edit the stone tablet passed down in their clan to show those with a mastered Sharingan how to acquire the Mangekyo Sharingan and the powers it possessed.
Cost of the Mangekyo Sharingan
The price exacted from possessing the Mangekyo Sharingan is blindness and the more one uses the eyes then the faster they lose their eyesight.
Each time one of its jutsu is cast, it causes a physical backlash upon that eye which damages their nerves, blood vessels and lens. In the immediate sense, this results in the wielder suffering intense pain and even increasingly worse bleeding from that eye but this has the permanent effect of weakening their vision. Over time, they experience episodes of disorienting double vision and their eyesight becomes increasingly dim and blurry - even with the Sharingan's supernatural acuity - until they cannot see anything.
If one never used the Mangekyo Sharingan, it would take decades to go blind. But anyone who awakens this power is unlikely to ever avoid using it if needed. The rate at which the eyes lose their vision depends on how many times they are used and how often they are used. But using it too many times in a short period means suffering the greater pain than usual and the vision worsens at a faster rate as well. But by carefully conserving the use of their jutsu, they can preserve these abilities for years if not decades.
Medical ninjutsu and medicine is only able to heal the short-term effects of the eye to reduce inflammation and bleeding but the damage to their eyesight is immune even to the most skilled of medical ninja. Otherwise there are only two ways to overcome the Mangekyo's Sharingan.
One is the cells and chakra of Senju Hashirama because of the powerful life force and regenerative ability of his unique body. By implanting his cells into their body, one becomes almost entirely immune to the damaging effects of the evolved doujutsu which allows them to perform as many of its jutsu as they desire without losing their eyesight.
The second is the last evolution of the Sharingan.
Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan
The Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is the final stage of the doujutsu.
By replacing their Mangekyo Sharingan with the eyes of a direct blood relative - such as a sibling, parent or offspring - who has also achieved Mangekyo Sharingan, the host's chakra mixes with the donor's in the transplanted eyes to awaken an evolved version of the doujutsu. This evolution is reflected in the changed pattern of the eyes which are a combination of the host and donor's original ones.
Those who possess it can wield all of the powers of their original Mangekyo Sharingan and their vision is restored to perfection. Their eyes still bleed as an aftereffect of channeling the incredible power of these jutsu but it does not cause them any pain or long-term damage.
The doujutsu's abilities are actually no more powerful than before. Every use of the eyes in their previous state was physically painful to use and the permanent consequences meant that it needed to be used sparingly; they could not be practiced like ordinary jutsu and had to be tested in live combat instead. Now that the only cost is the amount of chakra, the wielder can train and experiment with their doujutsu as much as they need without losing focus. This makes it far easier for them to draw out their doujutsu's true potential and makes its wielder far more dangerous than their previous self.
Unlike the instantaneous awakening of the Sharingan and the Mangekyo Sharingan, awakening the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan is a gradual process as the eyes recover from the transplant and mix the respective chakras together over time. If the eyes aren't compatible for evolution then the host instead only gains the abilities of the donor's eyes.
The only two people to have ever awakened the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan are Uchiha Madara and Uchiha Sasuke.
In his numerous battles against Senju Clan, Madara had nearly lost his eyesight from overusing the Mangekyo Sharingan. As his younger brother lay dying from their last battle with the Senju, Izuna offered his less damaged eyes to Madara so that he could continue protecting the Uchiha Clan in his absence. Madara tore out his own eyes and replaced them with his brother's, unknowingly starting the transformation that restored its sight and made it eternal.
Those who followed in the brothers' footsteps and awakened the Mangekyo Sharingan themselves tried to achieve this evolution as well but continually failed. With there only being a single precedent - and the exact circumstances involved weren't something that Madara shared with his brethren - Uchiha would steal the eyes of their own clansmen in the hopes of awakening the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan only to fail continually. It was only through trial and error that they came to the conclusion that it would only work with a direct blood relative who had awakened the Mangkeyo Sharingan themselves.
But awakening the Mangekyo Sharingan became less common over the generations; the initial craze for its power fading and the Uchiha placing strict control over one another. It became a rare thing but those who did possess its power were still respected among the clan for said power.
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Mangekyo techniques being limited in number is not really supported by canon.
If anything, the TYPE of techniques is limited: Genjutsu, Enton(manipulating it being generally known as Kagutsuchi, Amaterasu being one specific Enton technique) and Space-time(+Susanoo).
Though it's arguable whether Shin's remote item manipulation is a space-time technique or a different thing.
If anything, the TYPE of techniques is limited: Genjutsu, Enton(manipulating it being generally known as Kagutsuchi, Amaterasu being one specific Enton technique) and Space-time(+Susanoo).
Though it's arguable whether Shin's remote item manipulation is a space-time technique or a different thing.
with the exception of Itachi and Sasuke sharing Amaterasu, and Shin's space-time technique resembling Kamui, everybody else got their own techniques.
It's really hard to state there is a limit to the number of existing Mangekyo techniques given every Mangekyo user did show at least a different technique from the previous known(except Madara who was suggested having a space-time technique but was never shown)
It's really hard to state there is a limit to the number of existing Mangekyo techniques given every Mangekyo user did show at least a different technique from the previous known(except Madara who was suggested having a space-time technique but was never shown)
Well, yeah, it's not strange that Kishimoto decided to use different jutsu for the grand total of 4 MS he bothered to show the abilities for. 5 including Shin who I'm half-convinced was involved in an experiment to artificially awaken the MS which is why he got stuck with such a remarkably crap ability. We see two of them share the same jutsu and Tobirama had seen Kagutsuchi (and thus Amaterasu) at least once back in his day so we know the same abilities reoccur which implies that there isn't a massive selection of MS jutsu.
Everyone pair of Mangekyou Sharingan has the potential to awaken Susanoo, but every user who has actually done so acquired their own unique variation of the chakra warrior with a different appearance and individualized armory. Sasuke's had a crossbow, Itachi's could throw magatama, Kakashi's threw shuriken, Madara's could grow extra arms, etc.
I imagine that the other Mangekyou jutsu are similar in that there are only a few archetype jutsu that can be awoken in the Mangekyou, but most people get their own unique variation. This would explain why Obito and Shisui got very similar versions of essentially the same jutsu in each eye.
I thought it was recently learned that Madara was probably just referring to Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan by a different name when he called it a Straight Tomoe. I think that makes more sense, considering that Madara had only seen, what, three unique Mangekyou Sharingan patterns in his life? I don't think he had enough data to reasonably conclude that all Mangekyou Sharingan fall into one of two types.
Also, it's a shame that Izuna didn't take Madara's discarded eyes after donating his own to his brother. I suppose he just took a spare pair from a dead Uchiha since he had eyes when Tobirama killed him and he couldn't have known that taking Madara's would restore them, but still... Imagine how differently history might have developed if both brothers had acquired the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.
I imagine that the other Mangekyou jutsu are similar in that there are only a few archetype jutsu that can be awoken in the Mangekyou, but most people get their own unique variation. This would explain why Obito and Shisui got very similar versions of essentially the same jutsu in each eye.
I thought it was recently learned that Madara was probably just referring to Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan by a different name when he called it a Straight Tomoe. I think that makes more sense, considering that Madara had only seen, what, three unique Mangekyou Sharingan patterns in his life? I don't think he had enough data to reasonably conclude that all Mangekyou Sharingan fall into one of two types.
Also, it's a shame that Izuna didn't take Madara's discarded eyes after donating his own to his brother. I suppose he just took a spare pair from a dead Uchiha since he had eyes when Tobirama killed him and he couldn't have known that taking Madara's would restore them, but still... Imagine how differently history might have developed if both brothers had acquired the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan.
That's what I used to think, because otherwise you'd think every Uchiha sibling pair would be willingly swapping eyes for a chance to acquire ULTIMATE POWER... but Madara was the first person to ever awaken the Mangekyou, and he either accepted Izuna's eyes as an unexpected gift or stole them in a moment of pure desperation. So how could he have possibly known that combining his and Izuna's eyes was even possible? How could he have learned the proper ritual to accomplish that feat?
There's plug & play and there's spontaneously shoving an extra pair of eyeballs into a pair of already occupied eyesockets.
As has been said, Madara was never trying to acquire the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan as he was only attempting to regain some sight by using his brother's less damaged eyes. Then there's Sasuke and Tobi who only talk about implanting Itachi's eyes, his new eyes being a good fit, Kotoamatsukami being programmed for Itachi's eyes, Sasuke thinking of how he's seeing through the eyes belonged to his brother etc.
The lack of cooperation is just the more unfortunate aspects of human nature coming into play. The ones looking to get the EMS are ones who've had the emotional trigger needed for the Sharingan, likely killed someone they loved for the MS and are power-hungry enough or desperate enough to keep their sight and abilities that they are willing to take someone else's eyes. And the other person is probably in the same position so even if one isn't quite willing, the other very well might. It's possible that a couple of Uchiha even tried to trade but they were incompatible and achieved nothing.
That was just a theory and since then I've encountered discussions that proved it incorrect. Simplest reason is that Sasuke's DB4 profile says Sasuke awakened the straight tomoe of the Mangkyo Sharingan when Itachi died.
Izuna didn't give Madara his eyes until he was dying from the injuries that Tobirama gave him. Izuna was likely dead before Madara achieved the EMS.
As has been said, Madara was never trying to acquire the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan as he was only attempting to regain some sight by using his brother's less damaged eyes. Then there's Sasuke and Tobi who only talk about implanting Itachi's eyes, his new eyes being a good fit, Kotoamatsukami being programmed for Itachi's eyes, Sasuke thinking of how he's seeing through the eyes belonged to his brother etc.
The lack of cooperation is just the more unfortunate aspects of human nature coming into play. The ones looking to get the EMS are ones who've had the emotional trigger needed for the Sharingan, likely killed someone they loved for the MS and are power-hungry enough or desperate enough to keep their sight and abilities that they are willing to take someone else's eyes. And the other person is probably in the same position so even if one isn't quite willing, the other very well might. It's possible that a couple of Uchiha even tried to trade but they were incompatible and achieved nothing.
That was just a theory and since then I've encountered discussions that proved it incorrect. Simplest reason is that Sasuke's DB4 profile says Sasuke awakened the straight tomoe of the Mangkyo Sharingan when Itachi died.
Izuna didn't give Madara his eyes until he was dying from the injuries that Tobirama gave him. Izuna was likely dead before Madara achieved the EMS.
Was it ever canonically declared which version of the story of how Madara acquired Izuna's eyes was true? Because in Itachi's flashback Izuna clearly is not dying:
I also find it suspicious that neither Obito nor Itachi's version of that story mentions that Izuna was supposedly dying at the time. That fact would strongly undermine the significance of both Izuna willingly donating them and of Madara taking them by force. Madara would have inherited them soon after either way.
I also find it suspicious that neither Obito nor Itachi's version of that story mentions that Izuna was supposedly dying at the time. That fact would strongly undermine the significance of both Izuna willingly donating them and of Madara taking them by force. Madara would have inherited them soon after either way.
I always assumed that Obito's version story took precendence over Itachi's when they clashed and I kinda just assumed that Izuna had died after losing his eyes but you're right in that there was no actual mention of that. Weird.
Checking DB3, it confirms Obito's version was correct and then says that Izuna "eventually dies in battle" so I see what you mean.
Checking DB3, it confirms Obito's version was correct and then says that Izuna "eventually dies in battle" so I see what you mean.