Naruto The Narutoversity

RE: The Naruversity

the first time we see soldier pills, they are used by Kiba.

Actually, we've seen only Inuzuka and Akimichi using Soldier Pills.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

Well, the "Expensive Urine" concept is untrue. You only excrete nutrients if they're unnecessary, if your body isn't using them.

But for 3 days and nights, it must release the energy very slowly, as if it was released all at once, obviously the body would only get the maximum it can take in at any one time. Unless it's hyperbole.

If I had to guess, I would say it's a slow-releasing compound that aids in the cells of the body in producing whatever physical energy exactly is.

Either that or it's medical chakra concentrated somehow. Or yang chakra. Medical chakra's probably yin-natured, right?
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

The opposite. Yang chakra's all about life and vitality.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

But what about Tsunade's Yin Seal: release, or Kabuto 's regeneration technique, Yin Healing Wound Destruction?

Plus, good medical ninja are supposed to be those who are intelligent, or with high spiritual energy. It seams like Medical Nija might use Yin-predominant chakra to direct or manipulate the body's physical energy into healing itself. That might be why Tsunade's rebirth technique ages her. If a huge source of yang chakra was being introduced into her system, wouldn't her body "gain" life and vitality?
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

Well that is strange. Medical chakra has been confirmed to either yin or yang, but it's never been specified which one. Myself and Knight have assumed it was yang though because techniques that manipulate and heal living cells being associated with life, vitality, physical energy, etc makes a lot more sense then being associated with imagination, illusion and spiritual energy. I mean medical jutsu are pretty much the exact opposite of genjutsu, which are confirmed to be yin release. Good medical ninja being intelligent is more due to the fact that messing with human physiology is complicated and can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing, and you're gonna need to memorize a lot of textbooks and anatomy charts to get a handle on it, rather then the jutsu themselves requiring more spiritual energy. But Kabuto's regeneration technique throws a monkey wrench in that theory. I'm gonna have to think about this.
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

I assumed that Tsunade's was called a Yin Seal because it was meant to signify the mass of yang chakra being neutralized and contained within the seal i.e. to contain it, you're using its equal and opposite. But yeah, I didn't think of Kabuto's jutsu. :hmm:

Though it helps explain why Sakura's considered to be a genjutsu type when she's so talented at medical jutsu. On that front, I followed Altered's theory that it was simply a matter of her exceptional chakra control.

Edit: Man, I even checked to see if it could be a mistranslation, but both the Yin Seal and Kabuto's jutsu have the same first kanji.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

Also Tsunade's Creation Rebirth ages her because it heals by creating new cells to replace the damaged ones through rapid cellular division, and there is a limit to how many times human cells can divide. Cellular division damages a cell's DNA and eventually the telemeres of that DNA will become so short that further division is impossible. And while the exact cause of aging is unknown, accumulative DNA damage is thought to contribute significantly to the process.

So basically the aging side-effect is an inherent limit of human physiology and has nothing to do with the chakra. Anyone with a healing factor based on cellular division would suffer the same problem, including Naruto and his Kyuubi chakra induced regeneration.
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

Why's it even got Yin in the name anyway? It's literally the only medical ninjutsu that does since the yin seal is just a fuuinjutsu. Not to mention that I think the yin seal is the only other jutsu in the whole manga that has Yin or Yang in the name.
 
RE: The Naruversity

by the way, I've checked the RAW scans.
Sakura's seal is the "Byakugō no In"(White AustraliaMight Seal)



I'm also thinking the difference between hers and Tsunade's is how the accumulated chakra will be used.
Tsunade uses it for regenerating purposes, I'm betting Sakura will use it for offensive purposes, especially given the name.
Also, always basing on the name, I'd say it's a Yang-based seal. In short, Sakura reversed version of Tsunade's jutsu.

ITT, Sakura is Shaka from Saint Seiya.

EDIT: also, Hashirama calls Tsunade only "Tsuna"
 

whitewhiskey

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

I think there's a bit more of a difference between Tsunade and Sakura's abilities than just a seal. Tsunade, as I can remember, already has a greater amount of strength due to her Senju and Uzumaki heritage, the chakra she uses simply further augments her already impressive physical strength to the point where, buy evidence shown (Shippuden episode 286, where the two arm wrestle), she is actually physically stronger than E, The Fourth Raikage, even without her seal.

I think it may be like this.

If I remember right, strength can be attributed to both muscle size and density. As the Senju have the "Body" chakra of the sage and Uzumaki have a strong "Lifeforce", Tsunade's physiology may be different to the point of much denser musculature than normal (Which would be a bit odd, considering she's about 108 pounds, which is light for her height). This may be augmented by her healing abilities, as well as her seal, because when a muscle is overused, it tears and eventually heals denser than it was before, a process that would be almost instantaneous with the Creation-Rebirth, explaining how the seals use could shorten her life-span so much, even when she has relatively light wounds, like in her original battle against Orochimaru (Yes, I know it was a sword wound to the gut, but relatively, it doesn't seem to be too major of a wound in the Naruto world), her muscles where constantly tearing and reforming, giving her incredible strength, but at the known cost.

I think Sakura's strength work differently, by using her precise control to build up chakra that is released on contact with her target. This would explain why Tsunade seems capable of doing serious damage with just a finger, whereas Sakura uses her whole fist or foot, because she may not be able to safely release so much chakra in a small point without self injury, although it could also be that Sakura's technique, using just a finger, would reduce the affected area to a point, making it a more piercing attack than a bludgeoning.

But because of this, Sakura's technique would worry less on having to regenerate herself and more about her chakra levels, since her technique would be more diminished without it than Tsunade's would.
 
RE: The Naruversity

The anime doesn't count, as we are talking about the manga.
Sakura's and Tsunade's seals don't have anything to do with their strength. Eck, until she completely charged it, it was making Sakura weaker. So she might have used her chakra technique to augment her physical strength beyond A's.

Also, IIRC it was stated in the databook that Tsunade's power is an application of Medical Jutsu... or was it Sakura's?
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

Sakura's:
People are wont to recognise this as "superhuman strength," but it's an application of "medical ninjutsu," demanding the ability to concentrate and minute chakra control. In an instant, the highest grade of chakra is kneaded inside the body, and a moment later all of it it is gathered into the right fist!! That chakra is dispersed into the target, together with the impact of the punch, spreading the damage to every nook and corner! Any kind of strength is meaningless before this technique. With the damage done dependent on the amount of chakra used, it is also possible for a skilled shinobi to amass it in their fingertip.
Tsunade's:
It would seem Tsunade's "outrageous strength" completely ignores the laws of nature!! The challenge to common sense that is her power is due in no small part to her artful chakra control and fine-tuning. To give things a name, by instantly collecting chakra into her fist and fingers, she obtains a power of destruction bodily strength alone cannot achieve.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

Perhaps the reason that Kabuto's regeneration involves Yin chakra has to do with the whole "healing the wound before actually receiving it" aspect. That part is really weird and it sounds almost like a weak kind of reality bending. It reminds me Izanagi.

I'm also wondering if the technique really even uses Yin chakra. It seems rather strange to me that a jutsu with "Yin" in the title doesn't also include the word "Release" and doesn't mention yin anywhere in the description. And the only databook translation of the jutsu I could find on the internet doesn't mention yin either. It translates it as "Secret Wound Eradication Fast-Healing."
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

That translation can be found on Mangahelpers and the person who did it made a note that "the translation here is a bit arbitrary" in reference to the name. I went further and noticed that the first kanji for the Yin Seal and Kabuto's jutsu are the same as shown on the wiki, so it really does seem to have yin in the name.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

I figure medical jutsu use the patient's body's resources. Hence the use of Yin chakra to manipulate the patient's physical energy and/or yang chakra.
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

That seems really backwards. You'd think someone would hear that medical jutsu uses yin chakra, cocks his head and asks "why don't we just use yang chakra since it's, y'know, all about giving life and vitality?"

And then it's like, what the hell does yang chakra actually do if it's not involved in medical jutsu? Maybe it's not even a literal reference to yin chakra but to the mental aspects of it usage e.g. "predicting the attack [and] instantly gauging the situation".
 
RE: The Naruversity

In'yu Shōmetsu (陰癒傷滅) doesn't translate as "Secret Wound Eradication Fast-Healing".(unless I'm losing some double-meaning somewhere)

It's more "Yin Healing, Wound Vanishing"


And I think Yang chakra is mostly used in taijutsu. Power instead of control.
 

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

Ya know, maybe medical ninjutsu is a bit of both? You can use yin chakra to manipulate a well-rested patient's physical energy in order to help the patient's body heal itself more efficiently and effectively. But if the patient is low on stamina (which is likely to be the case for injuries received on the battlefield) you'll need to convert your own yang chakra so it's compatible with the patient and then transfer it to them so their body has something to work with.

That difference could explain why most medical-ninja we see healing someone use only the Mystical Palm jutsu and don't need any help, while Neji needed a team of medical ninja donating chakra to a giant fuinjutsu array in shifts for hours. The other ninja being healed still had chakra left for the medic to work with, while Neji was suffering from chakra exhaustion and was on death's door, so he needed medical-nin to both heal the wounds and donate chakra to him.
 

nixofcyzerra

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

Well, taijutsu uses stamina only, and probably doesn't use spiritual energy at all. And I would figure that all ninjutsu use at least some yang energy, just with different ratios to yin.

Remember, Yin release is about creating form, while Yang release is about breathing life into form. The human body is a pre-established form, with life already in it, so it might not make as much sense as you think if medical jutsu use yang. Animation Jutsu like Jiraiya's hair technique probably use a predominantly Yang chakra ratio. A technique for transferring chakra into others would probably be Yang-focused too.
 

Knyght

The Collector
RE: The Naruversity

I'd say Neji needed the team because he had a decent-sized hole inside him which goes beyond most of the injuries we see healed. That kind of damage is of the highest difficulty and so a complex procedure involving using a different body part to regenerate the lost area.

Honestly, I'm struggling to buy that yin chakra has any involvement in medical ninjutsu. Even "using the victim's own energy" sounds like something that would be done by using yang chakra which "governs vitality". No different from how elemental chakra can create or control an element.
 

Shirotsume

Not The Goddamn @dmin
RE: The Naruversity

Two things- First, I'd like to remind everyone that Sakura isn't using the contents of her seal yet.

Two, I would like to remind everyone that all we've ever seen Sakura do is extremely powerful strikes- yet Tsunade we've seen pick up a skyscraper sized sword and swing it through a snake.
Sounds like Sakura makes chakra explosions, but tsunade actually augments strength. Sakura is probably the superior striker, tsunade has more general utility.
 
Dragon Veins (Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
Dragon Veins

These are veins in the earth through which chakra flows making it the life stream of the planet. The chakra is composed of the physical energy produced by plants, the spiritual energy produce by sentient creatures and the natural energy produced by the earth and atmosphere. They can be found all over the planets but with varying concentrations of chakra as well as specific points where the chakra is released from i.e. the world's tenketsu. The chakra released from these points cause changes in the surrounding environment and local wildlife. This is what gave birth to places such as Mount Myoboku and creatures like the Toad Tribe.

It is possible for shinobi to manipulate the Dragon Veins with precise chakra control to use with their ninjutsu e.g. Earth Release, barrier ninjutsu and Mirror Attackers.

The Dragon Veins have also been tied to the Bijuu. When a Bijuu is killed or their jinchuuriki dies, the Bijuu's chakra is dispersed and slowly absorbed into the nearby Dragon Veins. The chakra flows through the veins until it eventually coalesces back together at a node where many veins intersect, and once they are fully formed they burst forth from the beneath the earth to reappear on the planet. The bijuu are willing to do just about anything to avoid this process, even cooperating with the human jailing them, because it basically involves them consciously experiencing their mind and soul being ripped apart, spread out over a large area and slowly put back together.
 
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Shadow Clone Jutsu v1/Multiple Shadow Clone Jutsu v1(Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
Shadow Clone Jutsu v1 (Version 2)

This is a B-rank ninjutsu that creates solid clones which are physically indistinguishable from their creator; they possess the same body, appearance, chakra, clothing and equipment. The jutsu uses chakra to create a clone, divides the user's chakra evenly between them and the clone and constantly provides chakra to maintain the clone's existence.

Clones are able to generate and mould chakra for jutsu which means they can use all the skills and jutsu that the original possesses.

The clone's body is composed of chakra that has been transformed into impermanent matter to the point that they appear completely real even to doujutsu. And while the clone's possess the same personality and will as the creator, they are ultimately subservient to him and follow his commands. They share a link with their creator who maintains their existence as the chakra that composes them is finite. It allows him to dispel them, give non-verbal commands, know how many exist and where they are in relation to him.

Sometimes, a seal is cloned as well but whatever is sealed inside is not as it exists within a separate space. If creator has a storage scroll containing a single kunai and they create a shadow clone, the clone can use their copied storage scroll to remove the kunai. But if the creator attempts to do the same afterwards, they will not be able to retrieve anything because there was only one kunai.

When a clone runs out of chakra or takes enough damage, they dispel automatically. How much damage they can receive before disappearing is dependent on the will of the clones and/or the creator, though critical and lethal blows will guarantee their destruction and can only be delayed.

When a clone is dispelled, their chakra is returned to the creator and any other existing clones so that their chakra remains evenly distributed. This chakra carries the memories of everything the clone experienced. This is most commonly used for spying and scouting purposes as it allows the creator to gain information without being physically present. Notably, the clone's memory of death are brief and muted as their final memories are jumbled; a self-defence mechanism to prevent the original's mind from being overwhelmed.

A less well-known use is for training which has intense chakra requirements and can cause mental stress. The total amount of experience the user gains is multiplied by the total number of clones being used to train. By having a number of clones training to use the same jutsu, the overall amount of time it takes to master it is reduced in proportion to the number of clones. This is useful for learning something that needs to be learned through repetition and experimentation e.g. shape manipulation, nature transformation, chakra control etc.

Multiple Shadow Clone Jutsu v1

This is an A-rank kinjutsu which uses the Shadow Clone Technique as a base, performing a very similar function and using the same hand-seal. The main difference between these jutsu is that the clones created with this version do not have their chakra return when the clone is expelled, which means that the original (and any other existing clones) do not receive memories of their experiences.

In exchange, the clones are significantly more chakra efficient which allows you to summon more clones with the same amount of chakra, and require less chakra to maintain their existence. This makes it more suited to create a large number of clones for combat without being distracted by the backlash of mental stress. It is labelled forbidden since without the chakra return function, it's easier for someone to exhaust themselves by creating more clones than they can handle.

Since both techniques use the same hand-seal, the difference in how each is used is a matter of intent. Provided that the user is aware of the function of both, they can choose which kind of clone they wish to create. As the Multiple Shadow Clone Technique is a more advanced variant, there is no mention of that chakra return function in the Scroll of Seals since it's not included in this version and it would be expected for someone to already know how to use the Shadow Clone Technique.
 
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Chakra Scalpel (Altered Nova)

Altered Nova

Well-Known Member
RE: The Naruversity

I see you liked my shadow clone theory after all. I admit it isn't perfect and you have to make some assumptions about Jiraiya teaching Naruto about the chakra return feature but not the memory return feature during the timeskip for it to make sense, but I think that closing up that ugly plothole with Naruto somehow not realizing his clones are giving him memories is a worthwhile tradeoff.

I suppose I'll break down a jutsu myself then:

Chakra Scalpel

This is an advanced medical ninjutsu which creates an extension of chakra from the user's hands. Often mistaken for wind release, this jutsu is actually composed of non-elemental yang charged chakra. Despite the name, a chakra scalpel is not actually sharp. Rather, the "blade" selectively severs the chemical bonds holding together any cells which it passes through. Chakra scalpels offer several advantages over conventional surgical instruments - Firstly, because the chakra scalpel does not actually cut living tissue, the lacerations it creates are much cleaner and finer than those created by even the sharpest wind blade, making them much easier to heal with other medical ninjutsu such as the mystical palm technique. And secondly, because the use decides what cells to sever and which to pass through harmlessly, a chakra scalpel can be used to operate on internal organs and tissue without causing unnecessary damage and while completely eliminating the risk of infection.

In addition, the very same properties that make the chakra such a versatile and powerful medical tool also make it a very effective weapon, although the chakra control and focus needed to wield them under such stressful conditions is quite high. In heated combat, even the greatest medical-nin won't be able to exert the precision needed to make fatal cuts, but it can still effectively cut muscle tissues and tendons, rendering the target immobile. No amount of body hardening or muscle training can protect someone from the effects of a chakra scalpel - if they are made of cells, they are vulnerable. Furthermore, reinforcing the hands with chakra is relatively easy for a ninja already skilled enough to fight with chakra scalpels, especially as they are already channeling chakra into their hands to use the jutsu in the first place, so a truly skilled medical ninja can not only use their hands for inflicting deadly wounds but also for blocking and deflecting swords, kunai and other ninja weapons.
 
Transformation Jutsu/Body Replacement Jutsu/Body Flicker Jutsu v1 (Knyght)

Knyght

The Collector
Transformation Jutsu (Offical Version)

This is an E-rank ninjutsu taught at the ninja academies and has been considered one of the essential ninjutsu for a shinobi to learn for centuries. It uses chakra to change the user's physical shape into a different person, animal or object as a disguise. The jutsu only effects size and shape, so the user doesn't possess the same physical properties as what they transform into. It takes skill to make the transformation believable and it's possible for it to be detected through touch. Chakra is used constantly to maintain the transformation which makes it difficult to have active over long periods of time unless possessing large amounts of chakra. If the user's concentration is disturbed then this can cause the transformation to fail so the more they are at it, then the easier it is to maintain even when being attacked or injured.

(Actually, have we ever seen a transformation dispelled by force? If not, then the concentration aspect may be unnecessary.)

Body Replacement Jutsu (Offical Version)

This is another academy-taught ninjutsu which uses chakra to latch onto an object within the vicinity and then propel it and the user past each other to take each other's position. The jutsu ends abruptly when the user's body and the object appear at their respective destinations. It causes some disorientation after use which ninja are quick to adapt to during training but it acts as a deterrent for using it in quick succession.

The speed of the replacement is dependent on the user's skill but it is typically faster than the eye can follow. The standard target of a replacement is unbound, inanimate and of a similar mass but this can vary depending on the user. It is impossible to be replaced with something too small and light because the chakra cannot 'grip' it or too large and heavy because of the chakra drain and the strain of moving it. Its usage on living things is limited so it cannot be used on anything which produces a certain level of chakra, so using it on large animals or a person is impossible.* The sole exception is that a ninja can replace themselves with their own clones provided they have a physical body.

Notably, those with enough skill in the area (most often demonstrated by jounin) are able to create a non-physical clone over their object at the same time, making it appear as if they haven't moved.

*For the sake of creating a reasonable definition, I'm assuming the original explanation for Kawarimi was retconned and that Kakashi didn't use the replacement technique on Naruto. Instead he was showing his superiority over the team by running around at high speeds to screw him over.

Body Flicker Jutsu v1 (Version 2)

This ninjutsu supercharges the user's body by infusing all their cells with chakra to allow them to move at higher speeds than they would normally be capable of. The amount of chakra required depends on the overall distance and elevation between the user and the intended destination. This increase in speed means that they user is limited to moving in a single direction after the jutsu has been activated, unable to change direction unless they force themselves to stop. It is typically uses as a means of escape or traveling as the high-speed movement causes tunnel vision and physical strain, meaning that it would take excellent reflexes and intense training for it to be usable in combat.
 
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