Bleach Bleach questions thread
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Depending on how valid you consider the Hell Verse movie Super Hollow Ichigo once moved his cero to destroy a row of enemies.
In the same movie Super Hollow Ichigo was shown to be able to power up a cero in a second two times in the intro fight alone.
I would like to argue that the reason ceros aren't shown to move during their charging time is because of these reasons.
1. Cero is a long ranged or simply ranged attack, getting up close and personal with a cero invalidates it's purpose for the most part.
2. Cero's "impact/ blast radius", you'd get caught up in the blast if the enemy forcibly detonates it before it's launched.
3. Attacking physically, charging an cero, and paying attention to the enemy is a lot of stuff to do instead of simply blasting the enemy from a distance.
4.Aiming a cero while moving is hard.
I'd also like to point out that the charge time for the attack Ulquiorra hit him with was half a second or so and sent him what I will guess to be anywhere from half a mile to two miles in three seconds. That's pretty fast.
In the same movie Super Hollow Ichigo was shown to be able to power up a cero in a second two times in the intro fight alone.
I would like to argue that the reason ceros aren't shown to move during their charging time is because of these reasons.
1. Cero is a long ranged or simply ranged attack, getting up close and personal with a cero invalidates it's purpose for the most part.
2. Cero's "impact/ blast radius", you'd get caught up in the blast if the enemy forcibly detonates it before it's launched.
3. Attacking physically, charging an cero, and paying attention to the enemy is a lot of stuff to do instead of simply blasting the enemy from a distance.
4.Aiming a cero while moving is hard.
I'd also like to point out that the charge time for the attack Ulquiorra hit him with was half a second or so and sent him what I will guess to be anywhere from half a mile to two miles in three seconds. That's pretty fast.
Actually the Black Cero notably has a longer charge time than a regular cero, as shown by the fact that Ichinator can go from zero to cero while Ulquiorra was actively charging it. Guestimating using dialogue given as the orb was charging as well as that fact, the charge time for a Black Cero should be about 2 seconds or so before it fires at best given all three times he used it. Hell, keep in mind Ichigo can fire off and fling a Getsuuga all the way to Yammi in the time it takes to charge the damn thing.
Make no mistake, cero's don't take any absurd amount of time themselves, a couple of seconds at most usually, but in a world with instantaneous movement, a second is literally nothing. The second you see the orb formed, you should already be out of the way.
Notably the reason I say Cero's don't appear to be movable is multifold. Even taking into account those given factors, the point of orgin is always somehow key. Whenever that's shown to be disrupted, be it cutting off a horn that presumably it was charging it from, striking the orb with a fist or an energy attack, or hell kicking the dude charging it with his mouth in the face, the cero has always either destabilized or outright blown up in their face.
Any disruption of the point of origin during the charge appears to outright negate the cero in some fashion. That plus the fact that a cero has never been directed even in a world with instant movement leads me to the natural conclusion that once the charge starts, you're locked in a particular direction for firing.
Make no mistake, cero's don't take any absurd amount of time themselves, a couple of seconds at most usually, but in a world with instantaneous movement, a second is literally nothing. The second you see the orb formed, you should already be out of the way.
Notably the reason I say Cero's don't appear to be movable is multifold. Even taking into account those given factors, the point of orgin is always somehow key. Whenever that's shown to be disrupted, be it cutting off a horn that presumably it was charging it from, striking the orb with a fist or an energy attack, or hell kicking the dude charging it with his mouth in the face, the cero has always either destabilized or outright blown up in their face.
Any disruption of the point of origin during the charge appears to outright negate the cero in some fashion. That plus the fact that a cero has never been directed even in a world with instant movement leads me to the natural conclusion that once the charge starts, you're locked in a particular direction for firing.
What you mean the thoroughly silly and completely and inarguably noncanon scene? 
Though as you suspect that's not precisely what I mean. While I do hold that being able to curve a cero at all after it fires is also invalid (Let me COUNT the number of times that would have been handy let me tell you), I mean once you lock yourself in a particular direction during the charge, you're set in it. Trying to turn that same charging orb around yourself 180 or even 90 degrees is simply not possible.
Obviously some wiggle room is likely to be had there, cero's are inconsistent enough for that much to be viable, but straight up changing the orientation just does not feasibly make sense with what's shown. I could see widening the arc of the cero or focus it further into a narrower range, hell maybe there's even a bit of wiggle room as to where the majority of power is to be directed within that arc if the user is skilled enough (Hence Halibel's Cero slash), but if you are charging a cero to be fired forwards, it's only ever going to be going in that general direction. :mellow:
Though as you suspect that's not precisely what I mean. While I do hold that being able to curve a cero at all after it fires is also invalid (Let me COUNT the number of times that would have been handy let me tell you), I mean once you lock yourself in a particular direction during the charge, you're set in it. Trying to turn that same charging orb around yourself 180 or even 90 degrees is simply not possible.
Obviously some wiggle room is likely to be had there, cero's are inconsistent enough for that much to be viable, but straight up changing the orientation just does not feasibly make sense with what's shown. I could see widening the arc of the cero or focus it further into a narrower range, hell maybe there's even a bit of wiggle room as to where the majority of power is to be directed within that arc if the user is skilled enough (Hence Halibel's Cero slash), but if you are charging a cero to be fired forwards, it's only ever going to be going in that general direction. :mellow:
I'm going to say that since Cero is basically a hollows equivalent of Shinigami's Kido that if either can move while firing so can their counterpart.
Rukia has been shown to move while firing Kido.
Hollows can move while firing Cero.
I think that makes sense, yeah?
Ichigo and Hinamori both shoot energy out of their swords, Grimjaw shoots those Blue "Strike Lazer Claws".
They can fire off energy while moving.
That's actually Ishida's entire gig more or less.
Actually when Hollow Ichigo was first beating Byakuya's ass the black Getsuga that he fired he curved after launching.
Why should some other technique be any different?
What about Shinji's fight with Grimjaw?
Didn't he fire a cero at while they were both moving?-This one I'll actually have to check because I am not sure if that's the case.
Rukia has been shown to move while firing Kido.
Hollows can move while firing Cero.
I think that makes sense, yeah?
Ichigo and Hinamori both shoot energy out of their swords, Grimjaw shoots those Blue "Strike Lazer Claws".
They can fire off energy while moving.
That's actually Ishida's entire gig more or less.
Actually when Hollow Ichigo was first beating Byakuya's ass the black Getsuga that he fired he curved after launching.
Why should some other technique be any different?
What about Shinji's fight with Grimjaw?
Didn't he fire a cero at while they were both moving?-This one I'll actually have to check because I am not sure if that's the case.
Actually no, Shinji was kinda dancing around Grimmjaw the whole time, but the instant he started charging his cero, he was perfectly stationary until it fired. This is notably the case for pretty much every case of firing a cero of any description, which is why it's so particularly notable. The moment the cero's come out, regardless of whatever they were doing otherwise, they notably stop and let it charge up.
Which is why I don't hold it to the same standards as those other techniques. No other technique in the series has this same disconnect. Well, bar Gin's Serial Blade in bankai, but that in itself was pretty silly. I still don't get why he needed that silly stance for that.
And kido too, now that I think about it. I don't recall much in the way of movement during kido use either as I run through all the familiar examples in my head, though that I usually attribute to requiring the name/chant taking focus. I guess there might be some example somewhere I'm forgetting since you seem so sure about it, but nothing's coming to mind. :mellow:
Which is why I don't hold it to the same standards as those other techniques. No other technique in the series has this same disconnect. Well, bar Gin's Serial Blade in bankai, but that in itself was pretty silly. I still don't get why he needed that silly stance for that.
And kido too, now that I think about it. I don't recall much in the way of movement during kido use either as I run through all the familiar examples in my head, though that I usually attribute to requiring the name/chant taking focus. I guess there might be some example somewhere I'm forgetting since you seem so sure about it, but nothing's coming to mind. :mellow:
Hard call considering all it would take to stop him would be a standard air platform, which is invisible. Throw in that we never actually see him fire that cero on panel and it's going to be a damned hard case to prove. And even were that viable, that would only cover a momentum case, that his stance didn't change wouldn't change the key point. :mellow:
But I suppose if that case does hold that would contradict the Wonderwiess case, since having a change in momentum negated his cero. Though admittedly if it's specifically change in momentum AS its charging then that might cover it. :hmm:
But I suppose if that case does hold that would contradict the Wonderwiess case, since having a change in momentum negated his cero. Though admittedly if it's specifically change in momentum AS its charging then that might cover it. :hmm:
To prevent recoil.
It's a spiritual thing, you wouldn't understand.
As for the Cero charge, I'd consider it to be like a Kamehameha in that it takes up all of one's energy to shoot one off, so moving is, at best, difficult. Even Goku never actually moved when he used them, save the onetime he used instantaneous movement to hit Cell at pointblank range. Then again, instantaneous movement.
It's a spiritual thing, you wouldn't understand.
As for the Cero charge, I'd consider it to be like a Kamehameha in that it takes up all of one's energy to shoot one off, so moving is, at best, difficult. Even Goku never actually moved when he used them, save the onetime he used instantaneous movement to hit Cell at pointblank range. Then again, instantaneous movement.
This was during the 3 week break before the Quincy arc started and Bleach chapters were instead sets of info about the shinigami during the 17 month timeskip. I believe the shikai changed bit was a misinterpretation of the line 'his chain has changed' which could apply to his shikai, but I believe was more intended in reference to the chain connecting his sheath to his back. Hard to say though, it's been a bit and I'd need to look it up again to be sure.
I definitely know however that Renji's Bankai was stated to have changed. Shame we didn't get to see it though. :mellow:
I definitely know however that Renji's Bankai was stated to have changed. Shame we didn't get to see it though. :mellow:
No. :mellow:
Honestly, at this point the worldbuilding is just to crap for it to come back from it, but more then that, it's hard to give a crap about anything, when you know it's just going to be recon'd two arks latter at most.....
...Not that there's going to be a "two arks latter", but it still applies to things that happened two arks ago. :huh.:
Honestly, at this point the worldbuilding is just to crap for it to come back from it, but more then that, it's hard to give a crap about anything, when you know it's just going to be recon'd two arks latter at most.....
...Not that there's going to be a "two arks latter", but it still applies to things that happened two arks ago. :huh.: